• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

NU Discussion Thread (Mark II)

Status
Not open for further replies.
I think Cherrim works in singles too but raises attack, not special attack.

It is important that I have both Manectric and Luxray on that team I made. Since I haven't posted the complete moveset I suppose that isn't clear. Non quick feet Ursaring is too slow to be a real threat. If you don't like Ursaring you can use Kangaskhan instead (personally, I'm an Ursaring fan).

I haven't had much success with slow sweepers in NU. Despite the average speed being very slow, there seem to be a trichotomy of usable offensive pokemon in the metagame:

1) "Effectively" Base 95 or above: Essentially every Pokemon I listed in the teams before, and things like Entei, Scarf Medicham, Scarf Magneton, etc. It's the main source of Pokemon I use in my teams now. I also count sun and rain sweepers here.

2) Some kind of ridiculous STAB priority: Hitmonchan, Skuntank.

3) Bulky and completely wall certain common Pokemon. Usually subpunchers Examples: Aggron, Poliwrath, Magneton.
 
Oh this is beyond awesome! I've waiting for someone to make something like this for people like me who don't know much about the NU metagame to get involved and see how battling is in NU. Thanks, Twash. Definitely bookmarking this.

~ Aether Nexus
 
I've only just realised that the threat list I wrote has been included in the OP, I'm honoured :D

And of course thanks to Random Pizzaman for adding to it!
 
I have come to a conclusion the Gabite should be used in most NU teams. Him using being a pseudo-Scarfchomp works really, really well in NU. Kills 2-4 Pokemon gamely and doesn't even die, just gets confused or something so I swap him. Also, if you're going to do this, use a Jolly nature with 252Atk/252Spe. That way you'll outpace the Jolly Medichams that are running around and OHKO it with Outrage.

Just think about it though:

Bibarel - Outpaced and OHKO'd by Outrage
Cacturne- Outpaced and OHKO'd by Outrage
Camerupt - Seriously outpaced and OHKO'd by Earthquake, if not OHKO'd by Outrage
Cloyster - Outpaced and OHKO'd by Stone Edge with SR (easy to get up)
Entei (thought I'd put him in) - Same as above and OHKO'd by Outrage

Basically the entire NU gets killed one way or another by Scarfbite. Only 'counter' scarf sets can beat him. In fact only a Scarfed Primeape will be able to do any major damage, but in doing so you're sacrificing your Band Primeape that everyone loves so well. So, used correctly, he can and will be the new staple Pokemon for NU's, so much so, that may the entirety of NU turn into 'the good NFE's'? Piloswine, Magneton (who's NU anyway), Electabuzz, Kadabra, Haunter, Metang, Rhydon, all NFE's that don't have to worry about any threats like they're final forms have to in OU (and even Uber for Gabite) because NU is a game for more 'primitave' Pokemon, so to speak. Like UU where Scyther's and Chansey's are predominant, will these Pokemon become the same for NU?

I think so. And it'll be a game that's way worse for people like 'Butterfree' and 'Farfetch'D' that are rejects anyway that are now made to look like even bigger fools by they're pre-evolved juniors.
 
Cacturne- Outpaced and OHKO'd by Outrage
Click to expand...
Although it will be most likely using Sucker Punch anyway, which Gabite probably has a hard time surviving.
 
And all Ice-Shard users will OHKO Gabite. 68/65/55 defenses are shit, nowhere near Chomp's 108/95/85. Piloswine, Cloyster, Dewgong, Glalie, Lapras...
 
Those 'calculations' are also full of shit. There is no way a Scarf Gabite is OHKOing any Cloyster with physical attacks. And Entei is never OHKO'd by Outrage; Earthquake maybe with SR, but not Outrage. I'm not even sure if Fire Blast from such a pathetic special attack can 2HKO a max HP Leafeon.
 
Plopper said:
And all Ice-Shard users will OHKO Gabite. 68/65/55 defenses are shit, nowhere near Chomp's 108/95/85. Piloswine, Cloyster, Dewgong, Glalie, Lapras...
Click to expand...
Just about none of those are commonly used, and of those, Ice Shard isn't a common move.

Max attack Adamant Scarf Gabite's Stone Edge vs. max / min neutral nature Cloyster:
306 Atk vs 396 Def & 304 HP (120 Base Power): 134 - 158 (44.08% - 51.97%)

64.50% for a 2HKO with Leftovers and SR.


Max attack Adamant Scarf Gabite's Outrage vs. min / min Entei:
306 Atk vs 206 Def & 371 HP (120 Base Power): 192 - 226 (51.75% - 60.92%)

Max attack Adamant Scarf Gabite's Earthquake vs. min / min Entei:
306 Atk vs 206 Def & 371 HP (100 Base Power): 320 - 378 (86.25% - 101.89%)

87.18% for a OHKO with SR.
 
wavedash said:
Just about none of those are commonly used, and of those, Ice Shard isn't a common move.

Max attack Adamant Scarf Gabite's Stone Edge vs. max / min neutral nature Cloyster:
306 Atk vs 396 Def & 304 HP (120 Base Power): 134 - 158 (44.08% - 51.97%)

64.50% for a 2HKO with Leftovers and SR.


Max attack Adamant Scarf Gabite's Outrage vs. min / min Entei:
306 Atk vs 206 Def & 371 HP (120 Base Power): 192 - 226 (51.75% - 60.92%)

Max attack Adamant Scarf Gabite's Earthquake vs. min / min Entei:
306 Atk vs 206 Def & 371 HP (100 Base Power): 320 - 378 (86.25% - 101.89%)

87.18% for a OHKO with SR.
Click to expand...

Cloyster and Entei are weak to SR. All the 1-2HKOs are guaranteed. Not that Entei would ever be switching in on Gabite lol.
 
wavedash said:
Just about none of those are commonly used, and of those, Ice Shard isn't a common move.

Max attack Adamant Scarf Gabite's Stone Edge vs. max / min neutral nature Cloyster:
306 Atk vs 396 Def & 304 HP (120 Base Power): 134 - 158 (44.08% - 51.97%)

64.50% for a 2HKO with Leftovers and SR.
Click to expand...

Too bad Stone Edge has 100 Base Power.

306 Atk vs 396 Def & 304 HP (100 Base Power): 112 - 132 (36.84% - 43.42%)

26.82% of 2HKO with Leftovers after SR.
 
The_Coon said:
I have come to a conclusion the Gabite should be used in most NU teams. Him using being a pseudo-Scarfchomp works really, really well in NU. Kills 2-4 Pokemon gamely and doesn't even die, just gets confused or something so I swap him. Also, if you're going to do this, use a Jolly nature with 252Atk/252Spe. That way you'll outpace the Jolly Medichams that are running around and OHKO it with Outrage.

Just think about it though:

Bibarel - Outpaced and OHKO'd by Outrage
Cacturne- Outpaced and OHKO'd by Outrage
Camerupt - Seriously outpaced and OHKO'd by Earthquake, if not OHKO'd by Outrage
Cloyster - Outpaced and OHKO'd by Stone Edge with SR (easy to get up)
Entei (thought I'd put him in) - Same as above and OHKO'd by Outrage

Basically the entire NU gets killed one way or another by Scarfbite. Only 'counter' scarf sets can beat him. In fact only a Scarfed Primeape will be able to do any major damage, but in doing so you're sacrificing your Band Primeape that everyone loves so well. So, used correctly, he can and will be the new staple Pokemon for NU's, so much so, that may the entirety of NU turn into 'the good NFE's'? Piloswine, Magneton (who's NU anyway), Electabuzz, Kadabra, Haunter, Metang, Rhydon, all NFE's that don't have to worry about any threats like they're final forms have to in OU (and even Uber for Gabite) because NU is a game for more 'primitave' Pokemon, so to speak. Like UU where Scyther's and Chansey's are predominant, will these Pokemon become the same for NU?

I think so. And it'll be a game that's way worse for people like 'Butterfree' and 'Farfetch'D' that are rejects anyway that are now made to look like even bigger fools by they're pre-evolved juniors.
Click to expand...

Meganium have 8 less points in ATK, 2 less points in Speed, access to Outrage but it doesn't have access to Stone Edge (unfortunately), isn't better to use it? It's bulkier.
 
Kedge said:
Meganium have 8 less points in ATK, 2 less points in Speed, access to Outrage but it doesn't have access to Stone Edge (unfortunately), isn't better to use it? It's bulkier.
Click to expand...

No, you fool. Meganium is meant to be used as a supporter. Pure Grass typing mean anything to you? Besides, 9/10 times, unSTAB Outrage is fail.
 
Kedge said:
Meganium have 8 less points in ATK, 2 less points in Speed, access to Outrage but it doesn't have access to Stone Edge (unfortunately), isn't better to use it? It's bulkier.
Click to expand...
lol. Even then, I would rather use SD meganium...
 
Kedge said:
Meganium have 8 less points in ATK, 2 less points in Speed, access to Outrage but it doesn't have access to Stone Edge (unfortunately), isn't better to use it? It's bulkier.
Click to expand...
Lack of STAB outrage means that Meganium needs a ton of time to set-up in order to do any decent damage. Gabite however can attack without having the time to set-up (although Gabite could've been more useful with Swords Dance).

Also Choice Band Jolly Gabite is pretty useful.

CB Gabite's Stone Edge against Max HP/Min Def Cloyster:
418 Atk vs 396 Def & 304 HP (100 Base Power): 152 - 180 (50.00% - 59.21%) 100% 2HKO

CB Gabite's Dragon Claw against Min HP/Min Def Entei:
418 Atk vs 206 Def & 371 HP (80 Base Power): 175 - 207 (47.17% - 55.80%) 73% 2HKO w/o Stealth Rock factored in.

CB Gabite's Stone Edge against Standard Stallrein (220 HP / 240 Def)
418 Atk vs 303 Def & 416 HP (100 Base Power): 198 - 234 (47.60% - 56.25%)

Plus CB Gabite's pretty useful when it comes to OHKOing Physical Walls such as Aggron and Probopass so it's not all bad. Without a Choice Band Gabite will fail to 2HKO Walrein as well as Cloyster (and seeing that Cloyster doesn't seem to carry Ice Shard as much, you can beat it). I was wondering if using Adamant instead of Jolly could be okay too, since most pokemon in NU are slower compared to the pokemon in OU anyways.
 
Misa said:
Lack of STAB outrage means that Meganium needs a ton of time to set-up in order to do any decent damage. Gabite however can attack without having the time to set-up (although Gabite could've been more useful with Swords Dance).

Also Choice Band Jolly Gabite is pretty useful.

CB Gabite's Stone Edge against Max HP/Min Def Cloyster:
418 Atk vs 396 Def & 304 HP (100 Base Power): 152 - 180 (50.00% - 59.21%) 100% 2HKO

CB Gabite's Dragon Claw against Min HP/Min Def Entei:
418 Atk vs 206 Def & 371 HP (80 Base Power): 175 - 207 (47.17% - 55.80%) 73% 2HKO w/o Stealth Rock factored in.

CB Gabite's Stone Edge against Standard Stallrein (220 HP / 240 Def)
418 Atk vs 303 Def & 416 HP (100 Base Power): 198 - 234 (47.60% - 56.25%)

Plus CB Gabite's pretty useful when it comes to OHKOing Physical Walls such as Aggron and Probopass so it's not all bad. Without a Choice Band Gabite will fail to 2HKO Walrein as well as Cloyster (and seeing that Cloyster doesn't seem to carry Ice Shard as much, you can beat it). I was wondering if using Adamant instead of Jolly could be okay too, since most pokemon in NU are slower compared to the pokemon in OU anyways.
Click to expand...

Looks good, but not having any of the dances sucks.
 
Well it's probably the best that Gabite's gonna get. The Choice Scarf set seems to lack enough power to do any decent damage in the UU metagame.
 
Standard Gardevoir with defensive Lickilicky have really worked wonderfully in conjecture for me lately. Gardevoir burns it's incoming threats and switches off to Lickilicky with impunity while 'licky stalls it out. NU is a nice place for stalling.
 
I like DD Dragonair better than Gabite tbh. Dragon Dance means you can sweep, and it is not limited to Revenge killing. It's defenses are better than Gabites, and after a DD, it can 2HKO stuff like Articuno without SR.
 
I'd say Gabite is sub-par (mainly due to no Swords Dance), but Dragonair has been pretty decent when I've used it. Plus, it's the first time I've ever used a pure Dragon-type competitively, so that's been interesting too.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top