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Community Create-A-Team #2: Aggron (OU)
- Thread starter Justinawe
- Start date
Aggron is far from being another Tyranitar. Tyranitar gets many more switches on Latias and other things. It even gets Pursuit. While as i've been using a Aggron team, Hippowdon and Celebi are pretty much staples to any team with a CB Aggron. Celebi ALWAYS defeats any bulky ground aside from Gliscor, who is even threatened by Aggron. Hippowdon provides the team of its own Aggron counter, along with the Sandstream support. I've found that Aggron + Specs Rotom is a great combo. Rotom can damage bulky waters, Trick those Grounds and provide the high attacker, high special attacker combo any team loves. Discharge, Shadow Ball, Leaf Storm, Trick is a great moveset with Aggron because he can Leaf Storm the Grounds as well as get some Discharge paralysis with other Pokemon
Voted Choice Band for the reasons Locopoke, Lee, and Hipmonlee stated.
you know, im kind of wondering whats going to happen now. no offense to the rp people, but i think it is basically decided that cb is just so much better. however, the poll is telling us "we have to go with rp aggron". and no offense to those rp voters, but it seems like a lot of people who actually talk in the thread / participate voted and defended Choice Band.
Might regret making it formal, but if you plan on making CCAT a serious long term project, maybe we should repoll it with a "explain reasoning behind desicion" and as monkfish said, a set creation first. otherwise you get people telling their friends "vote this" and we might not end up using aggron to his full potential.
Might regret making it formal, but if you plan on making CCAT a serious long term project, maybe we should repoll it with a "explain reasoning behind desicion" and as monkfish said, a set creation first. otherwise you get people telling their friends "vote this" and we might not end up using aggron to his full potential.
A lot of people have posted in this thread saying that if they had known the benefits of CB beforehand, they would have voted for it. I won't lie, I was the first person who voted for RP, and I thought that it was truly the best set for Aggron. After reading many posts in here defending it though, (Lee had the most influential of them), I felt that there was no reason to not use CB. The fact is, RP is outclassed by Metagross and Rhyperior. Why should the community spend time on a team that will just be outclassed?
If we are going to use Aggron in a successful OU team, we have to use his best set that isn't outclassed, and that is CB. Tomorrow when the poll closes, we will have a bolded revote if CB does not win. You will need to explain yourself on why you picked the set, and why it would be the most beneficial for the team. Like I said, many people now regret voting for RP (including myself), and a bolded revote should likely put CB as the winning option.
If we are going to use Aggron in a successful OU team, we have to use his best set that isn't outclassed, and that is CB. Tomorrow when the poll closes, we will have a bolded revote if CB does not win. You will need to explain yourself on why you picked the set, and why it would be the most beneficial for the team. Like I said, many people now regret voting for RP (including myself), and a bolded revote should likely put CB as the winning option.
I actually like the revote idea, because the past few days it has been really chaotic in here. We need to get this sorted out. I really could go either way. I really like Rock Polish and I really like Choice Band. But it depends on what we want to use Aggron for. If we want to use it for sweeping than we should use Rock Polish, but if we just want some wall-breaker I think CB is the way to go.
Also at the below poster, who said Rock Polish Aggron can't sweep? I have tested CB, SubRise and Rock Polish (both SubLiechi and LO), and I think Rock Polish is very, very threatening if you give it proper team support.
Also at the below poster, who said Rock Polish Aggron can't sweep? I have tested CB, SubRise and Rock Polish (both SubLiechi and LO), and I think Rock Polish is very, very threatening if you give it proper team support.
Rock Polish Aggron can't sweep in this metagame and if it can. The team would be way unbalanced and lacking major defense.
If you can work your magic you can Rock Polish twice, meaning that Aggron outspeeds any Scarfer out there... too bad you won't have the time to do that.
Really, RP Aggron should be played with support to be really effective at sweeping. Someone passing Swords Dance to it is crucial for you to sweep. Ninjask is a good partener, being immune to ground and resisting fighting for 4X. But Celebi is the most effective one.
Late game, it probably won't need any support though since the pokes will be weakened and you will know the enemy team, meaning a Rock Polish on the right time spells GG for the adversary.
CB is free of any support but won't sweep anyday. It will just kill/cripple immensely a poke of your enemy. Once ot twice... or thrice.
It comes into the field with his many resistances, and pull off a insanely powerful hit on the enemy, probably OHKO or 2HKO it(and the things that can take a hit are mostly slower than Aggron so it can hit them twice.)
Between those sets, just see what's best for you and your team.
Need a powerful hard hitter? Go with the CB. Need a late game sweeper? RP Aggron is the way to go.
Really, RP Aggron should be played with support to be really effective at sweeping. Someone passing Swords Dance to it is crucial for you to sweep. Ninjask is a good partener, being immune to ground and resisting fighting for 4X. But Celebi is the most effective one.
Late game, it probably won't need any support though since the pokes will be weakened and you will know the enemy team, meaning a Rock Polish on the right time spells GG for the adversary.
CB is free of any support but won't sweep anyday. It will just kill/cripple immensely a poke of your enemy. Once ot twice... or thrice.
It comes into the field with his many resistances, and pull off a insanely powerful hit on the enemy, probably OHKO or 2HKO it(and the things that can take a hit are mostly slower than Aggron so it can hit them twice.)
Between those sets, just see what's best for you and your team.
Need a powerful hard hitter? Go with the CB. Need a late game sweeper? RP Aggron is the way to go.
I voted other, the other in this case would be a substitute without magnet rise.:
Aggron @leftovers
252 hp, 252 attack, 4 hp
Adamant
Substitute
Head smash
Focus punch
filler, probably aqua tail
I will test this set, i feel like it would be pretty good as it has great coverage and substitute gives aggron an extra life. Another option over aqua tail is EQ which will hit metagross harder. Normally people would think that Magnet rise would save aggron against metagross, but base 180 power meteor mashes still threaten it too much.
Aggron @leftovers
252 hp, 252 attack, 4 hp
Adamant
Substitute
Head smash
Focus punch
filler, probably aqua tail
I will test this set, i feel like it would be pretty good as it has great coverage and substitute gives aggron an extra life. Another option over aqua tail is EQ which will hit metagross harder. Normally people would think that Magnet rise would save aggron against metagross, but base 180 power meteor mashes still threaten it too much.
The problem with CB is that, you don't make a team based around Choice pokemon. It's much easier to base it around a late game sweeper, like the Rock Polish set.
For the arguments that say the RP set doesn't get enough power, you need to think of when Aggron will be coming into play. At the end where most pokemon are already wore down, and Scarfers have been taken out.
For the arguments that say the RP set doesn't get enough power, you need to think of when Aggron will be coming into play. At the end where most pokemon are already wore down, and Scarfers have been taken out.
the three best sets are CB, SubLeichi RP and SubRise w/Focus Punch
if you're running rp, jolly 220 spe is best since you don't lose to the most common scarfer (Heatran) and the attack drop is negligible after the Leichi boost.
That being said, CB has been my favorite set so far as it does its job VERY well. This has been my favorite CB set so far:
Aggron @ Choice Band
Adamant
56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spe
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Filler
Filler depends on what you want to hit. Focus Punch hurts Swampert a whole lot when he switches in. not enough to OHKO but enough to stop him from doing it again. Fire Punch lets you 2HKO Bronzong and OHKO Forretress while saving Head Smashes PP. Aqua Tail gets rid of Rhyperior and can hurt Hippowdon. Toxic will slowly take care of the bulky grounds. I've had the most success with Fire Punch, but all of them work (Focus punch needs more scouting before hand though)
Ice Punch is a better option than Aqua Tail since Aqua Tail will only hit two pokes harder than HS (Hippo and Rhyperior), Ice Punch gets 3 (Flygon, Gliscor and Breloom) and lets you ko Outrage-locked dragons without risking a miss
and you can build a team around a choiced wall breaker. put a Bulky Ground lure/killer, a couple resists and a sweeper that has problems against walls and you're fine
if you're running rp, jolly 220 spe is best since you don't lose to the most common scarfer (Heatran) and the attack drop is negligible after the Leichi boost.
That being said, CB has been my favorite set so far as it does its job VERY well. This has been my favorite CB set so far:
Aggron @ Choice Band
Adamant
56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spe
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Filler
Filler depends on what you want to hit. Focus Punch hurts Swampert a whole lot when he switches in. not enough to OHKO but enough to stop him from doing it again. Fire Punch lets you 2HKO Bronzong and OHKO Forretress while saving Head Smashes PP. Aqua Tail gets rid of Rhyperior and can hurt Hippowdon. Toxic will slowly take care of the bulky grounds. I've had the most success with Fire Punch, but all of them work (Focus punch needs more scouting before hand though)
Ice Punch is a better option than Aqua Tail since Aqua Tail will only hit two pokes harder than HS (Hippo and Rhyperior), Ice Punch gets 3 (Flygon, Gliscor and Breloom) and lets you ko Outrage-locked dragons without risking a miss
and you can build a team around a choiced wall breaker. put a Bulky Ground lure/killer, a couple resists and a sweeper that has problems against walls and you're fine
There are plenty of teams that I could think of that use CB Scizor as a sweeper, CB Tyranitar as a sweeper, and even Specs Pokemon such as Latias. It's easy to build a team around a Choiced Pokemon, especially around one such as Aggron who only needs to use Head Smash to defeat most Pokemon.
A few pages back, Justinawe (I think) posted a long post with Pokemon in OU who were OHKOd, 2HKOd and 3HKOd (or farther), and we all saw that it 1-2HKOd most Pokemon. This means it doesn't need a precious set-up turn to sweep, and you don't lose the precious power you gain from the Band itself.
As for your sentence, "...you need to think of when it will come into play...," think about when CB will be coming into play. You aren't sending it in early game, but rather mid to late game, where most Pokemon are at <3/4 health. As we saw in Justin's post, Aggron gets a ton of near OHKOs on Pokemon, and if they have taken prior damage they are OHKOd. As for RP Aggron, it's loss in power is keeping those Pokemon at 2HKOs until they reach signifigantly lower HP, meaning you're basically forced to keep Aggron until the end phase of the game.
Recap: Plenty of Choice Pokemon pull off sweeps, you probably just don't ever think about it being a sweep. CB Aggron can come in earlier then RP Aggron and provide the same, if not better, results. The loss of power in the RP set means that you won't be KOing Pokemon as often, and you have to hold it until the end phase. I place emphasis on the Plenty of Choice Pokemon can pull off sweeps, though.
I love how people are ignoring the substitute set.
I've been testing the sub set I posted earlier on the ladder, I think Ive gone 30-5 with two of those losses coming from hax. Pretty much every time if gotten a sub up Ive killed something, most of the times 2 things.
I'll post the team Im using, its pretty standard toxic balance. Roserade/spinner starmie/scarf tyranitar/scarf rotom/Stealth rocks gliscor/ sub aggron.
I've been testing the sub set I posted earlier on the ladder, I think Ive gone 30-5 with two of those losses coming from hax. Pretty much every time if gotten a sub up Ive killed something, most of the times 2 things.
I'll post the team Im using, its pretty standard toxic balance. Roserade/spinner starmie/scarf tyranitar/scarf rotom/Stealth rocks gliscor/ sub aggron.
To be honest, I myself would love to hear more of why the Sub set is so great. I personally have yet to test it and most people I ask say it doesn't fair well. Can you explain more about it, possibly expand on why it is netting you all these wins?
I originally voted RP, with a SubLiechi set in mind (See: Empoleon), but given the discussion on this thread, I would change my vote to CB, because:
1. Empoleon pulls it off better. Empoleon has the option of a Torrent boosted 100% accurate stab, or a more powerful 80% accurate stab that is actually more powerful than Head Smash after Torrent. In addition, Empoleon isn't going to get stopped by the most used priority move- Bullet Punch. Aggron also has more threatening switchins- see Flygon, Swampert, etc. vs Blissey.
2. We want to abuse Head Smash, I presume that is the point of Aggron being chosen for CCAT #2. RP sets would use Jolly, but we want Adamant- CB works with that. We also want to avoid getting screwed by Head Smash misses- CB works better with that.
3. Let's use that SR resist.
As a sorta unrelated but sorta related note, I was hoping RP Rhyperior would be #2. Oh well.
1. Empoleon pulls it off better. Empoleon has the option of a Torrent boosted 100% accurate stab, or a more powerful 80% accurate stab that is actually more powerful than Head Smash after Torrent. In addition, Empoleon isn't going to get stopped by the most used priority move- Bullet Punch. Aggron also has more threatening switchins- see Flygon, Swampert, etc. vs Blissey.
2. We want to abuse Head Smash, I presume that is the point of Aggron being chosen for CCAT #2. RP sets would use Jolly, but we want Adamant- CB works with that. We also want to avoid getting screwed by Head Smash misses- CB works better with that.
3. Let's use that SR resist.
As a sorta unrelated but sorta related note, I was hoping RP Rhyperior would be #2. Oh well.
Well, I'm merely saying it is viable. That win record isnt very exciting, it just means that you can use the sub set effectively. I would have to say that it is a combination of the rest of the team being solid, and the abundance of scizors with bullet punch. I just set up all over them and then pretty much always get a kill.
Also, after i posted that win-loss record i went 10-5 my next 15 matches so it may have been a fluke...
Scizors with BP? BP does 31.89% - 37.87%, so I don't see why Scizor's going to switch out unless you gave him reason to believe you have a CB Head Smash.
Sub set is fine
But as you said, the win record isn't very exciting.
It is viable but not the most effective in the overall meta environment.
We are trying to figure out the most effective set to work with so being viable just doesn't cut it.
Oh and yes, as much as I like the RP set, it just doesn't have enough power to abuse that HS to its fullest potential and with CB I would say we can abuse (often) its resistances and the SR resistance.
CB imho is the way to go.
The CB set doesn't need Ice Punch what so ever.
Head Smash - No need to explain
Earthquake- 2hko's Metagross, Rhyperior and any other Steel or Rock, not to mention hits other Aggrons
Aqua Tail- 2hko's Hippowdon and OHKO Rhypeior
Toxic/ Super Power/ Iron Head. The last move is basically a filler.
The best Ground Aggron counter is easily Qaugsire. It can threaten it away with Waterfall and Earthquake. Immunity to Aqua Tail and takes (19.29% - 22.84%) from Super Power (the highest base power move Aggron has aside from Head Smash) and takes (36.55% - 42.89%) from Head Smash, and can just Recover off the damage. Use Quagsire if you want to defend against this beast and Quagsire has a much better move pool than Swampert, use it!
Head Smash - No need to explain
Earthquake- 2hko's Metagross, Rhyperior and any other Steel or Rock, not to mention hits other Aggrons
Aqua Tail- 2hko's Hippowdon and OHKO Rhypeior
Toxic/ Super Power/ Iron Head. The last move is basically a filler.
The best Ground Aggron counter is easily Qaugsire. It can threaten it away with Waterfall and Earthquake. Immunity to Aqua Tail and takes (19.29% - 22.84%) from Super Power (the highest base power move Aggron has aside from Head Smash) and takes (36.55% - 42.89%) from Head Smash, and can just Recover off the damage. Use Quagsire if you want to defend against this beast and Quagsire has a much better move pool than Swampert, use it!
I don't think you guys understand, Sub-liechi aggron has the same power as CB aggron. Everyone says "RP loses a ton of power", it doesn't.
While there might be other weaknesses, please don't include the power.
While there might be other weaknesses, please don't include the power.