New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread - UU Edition

[Rolf]

Double Dancing Rhyperior (Yes, it is Double Dancing)

Rhyperior@Leftovers
Jolly - 244HP/48Att/212Spe
~ Rock Polish
~ Swords Dance
~ Earthquake
~ Stone Edge

Rock Polish Rhyperior is seen a lot. SD is seen less because of speed issues, but is still a potent threat. So why not stick both on the same set and still get the great coverage that QuakeEdge gives you?

The EVs are simple: 244HP is a coveted leftovers number and gives considerable bulk. 212 Speed and Jolly allows you to beat +Spe Sceptile after a Rock Polish, who usually is a major stopper to a Rhyperior sweep. The rest of the EVs are dumped into Attack to boost your power.

Rhyperior can set up in the face of almost any physical attacker in the metagame bar Fighters and Feraligatr/Azumarill due to 115 base HP and 130 Defense. He also tends to scare many pokes out with his base 140! attack. Rock Polish with your opportunity. If they bring in something that you can still take a hit from, SD up. You are now sitting on 656 Attack and 374 Speed with duel-STABs that have almost unresisted coverage and 100 power each.

EQ v. 252HP/252Def +Def Blastoise: (59.67% - 70.44%)

SE v. 252HP/176Def +Def Weezing: (60.18% - 70.96%)

SE v. 252HP/144Def +Def Claydol: (35.19% - 41.36%)

EQ v. the new LeadTomb (244HP/0Def +Def): (84.44% - 99.67%) 74.26% OHKO with rocks
EQ v. 252HP/252Def +Def Spiritomb: (67.11% - 79.28%)

SE v. 252HP/252Def +Def Uxie: (50.28% - 59.60%) 51.25% 2HKO with rocks factoring in accuracy

EQ v. 252HP/4Def Neutral Hitmontop w/ Intimidate: (76.97% - 90.79%)
EQ v. 252HP/4Def Neutral Hitmontop w/ Technician: (101.97% - 120.39%)

These are the real interesting calcs though - the defensive calcs.

Hitmontop 252Att +Att LO Mach Punch: (31.25% - 36.81%)
Same w/o LO: (23.84% - 28.47%)
Hitmontop 252Att +Att LO Close Combat: (61.81% - 73.15%)
Same w/o LO: (47.92% - 56.48%)

Honchkrow 252Att +Att LO Sucker Punch: (33.33% - 39.58%)
Same with Brave Bird: (25.00% - 29.63%)

Azumarill 252Att +Att Choice Band Aqua Jet: (66.67% - 79.17%)
Same with Lefties > CB: (44.44% - 52.78%)

Toxicroak 252SpA +SpA LO Vacuum Wave: (39.81% - 47.22%)

Claydol 114SpA Neutral Earth Power: (46.76% - 55.56%) 11.97% chance to 2HKO

As you can see, priority has a great deal of trouble taking you down. Pretty much the only way to get rid of him is:
1) Have something that can take an EQ/SE and can actually do something back. (Blastiose, Weezing, Spiritomb, Milotic, Slowbro, Torterra, Defensive Venusaur)
2) Hit it with a boatload of priority, preferably Aqua Jets from the likes of Azumarill or Feraligatr.

Ways to fix this from the Rhyperior side:
1) Get rid of the opponents bulky waters which eliminates half the threat list
2) Add duel screens to effectively half everything shown here
3) Use Umbreon to Mean Look something that can't do anything to you (Hitmontop) and Yawn/BP to Perior
4) Just play smart in general - I almost always net a double dance. (I think I want to name this set Double Dancing Rhyperior just because that's what I called it first in the irc)

So yeah, fun stuff. For reference and future calcs if you all want to do some and post:

Rhyperior has 432HP/328Att/296Def/146SpD/187Spe before any stat boosts.

Rhyperior greatly appreciates getting rid of any Milotic/Slowbro that reside on the opponents team. One of the best lures in my opinion for these pokes is SunnyBeam Moltres, who lures both of them in and can Sunny Day as the bulky water switches in, then SolarBeam the suckers to death while being hit only minimally by their Surfs due to sun weakening water type attacks. If needed he can also take any Fighting- or Ground- type attacks aimed at Rhyperior and set up himself.

 

[Mrobinson587]

Been exploring the possiblities of our boosting NU friends. Here's my report.

Whishcash. *sigh* makes me so sad. I tried to make a bulky DD set that could set up a sub on the walls of UU but it doesn't have the defense for it. Only chance of success would be in NU despite pretty good stabs.

Crawdaunt (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 12 HP/252 Atk/244 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Crabhammer
- Substitute?????

Outspeeds base 105's after 1 DD and after it gets its 1 magical turn of setup it has 339*1.95= 661.05 Sub is because really there is no good 3rd attacking option. All the stuff Aerial Ace hits either gets hit harder or the same by it's other moves, has priority that will KO it or is rare (Poliwrath). Substitute was the best option I was able to use.

Any suggestions for improvement would be most welcome. I feel like something could be made better but that might just be because Crawdaunt is NU material

 All are max defense some calcs omitted because I'm tired lol
+1 Crunch
Milotic - 51.27% - 60.41%
Venusaur - 53.57% - 63.46%
Uxie - 81.36% - 96.61%
Slowbro 82.23% - 97.46%
Azumarill - 49.75% - 58.66% Doesn't run max does __ with Aqua Jet
Altaria - 52.54% - 61.86%
Blastoise -48.07% - 56.63%
Cloyster - 37.10% - 44.05% Does __ with Ice Shard/AJ
Leafeon - 43.11% - 51.20%
Quagsire 43.65% - 51.78%
Gallade does __ with Shadow Sneak

+1 Crabhammer
Registeel - 39.84% - 47.25%
Spiritomb - 60.53% - 71.38% does __ with SS, does __ with Sucker Punch
Rhyperior - 149.31% - 176.96%
Steelix - 66.67% - 78.53%
Drapion - 53.20% - 62.79%
Clefable - 60.15% - 71.07%
Torterra - 47.97% - 56.60%
Weezing - 51.50% - 61.08%
Umbreon - 46.45% - 54.82%
Honchkrow does__ with Sucker Punch

The 3rd set I'm looking into is a bulky agility set on Kingler which was being brought up in some UU thread. Kingler needs no speed EV's with a Neutral nature to outspeed max speed Electrode after Agility. The rest of the EV's can be delegated to making it bulkier. With a life orb it reaches 512 attack

 

[LMK]

Rhyperior@Leftovers
Jolly - 244HP/48Att/212Spe
~ Rock Polish
~ Swords Dance
~ Earthquake
~ Stone Edge

Rock Polish Rhyperior is seen a lot. SD is seen less because of speed issues, but is still a potent threat. So why not stick both on the same set and still get the great coverage that QuakeEdge gives you?

The EVs are simple: 244HP is a coveted leftovers number and gives considerable bulk. 212 Speed and Jolly allows you to beat +Spe Sceptile after a Rock Polish, who usually is a major stopper to a Rhyperior sweep. The rest of the EVs are dumped into Attack to boost your power.

Rhyperior can set up in the face of almost any physical attacker in the metagame bar Fighters and Feraligatr/Azumarill due to 115 base HP and 130 Defense. He also tends to scare many pokes out with his base 140! attack. Rock Polish with your opportunity. If they bring in something that you can still take a hit from, SD up. You are now sitting on 656 Attack and 374 Speed with duel-STABs that have almost unresisted coverage and 100 power each.

[calcs to go here when I have time tomorrow]

Rhyperior greatly appreciates getting rid of any Milotic/Slowbro that reside on the opponents team. One of the best lures in my opinion for these pokes is SunnyBeam Moltres, who lures both of them in and can Sunny Day as the bulky water switches in, then SolarBeam the suckers to death while being hit only minimally by their Surfs due to sun weakening water type attacks. If needed he can also take any Fighting- or Ground- type attacks aimed at Rhyperior and set up himself.

I like the idea of the set. The only main issue I can think of right is how many pokemon can switch in on the RP and 1HKO or force out Rhyperior while he fails to 1HKO them. I'm thinking Tangrowth, Leafeon (yes, I understand they are NU), Blastoise, Claydol (who I don't think takes much from a +2 NVE SE), Slowbro (which you already mentioned), Donphan can trade blows, Weezing/Spritiomb gets the WoW, Uxie the yawn, and Hitmontop should survive a -1 attack. Since you don't have any attack EV's and are Jolly I'm sure there are random pokes that will live as well.

With the current spread and no LO Rhyperior isn't that threatening (for a sweeper) initially which kinda sucks since he needs two turns to reach full potential and he is weak to common priority. If you've got SunnyBeam moltres as a lure then all of the above pokemon I listed will be dead or close to it. What I'm getting at is do you need RP and SD? If your main counters will be out of the match why not just use the listed RP set in the analysis? You have the option of better coverage, shorter set-up time, and the ability to be threatening without setup.

I'll wait for your calcs as I'm curious to see the type of damage as the only surefire counters I can think of to +2/+2 Rhyperior are Claydol and Weezing w/Haze and/or WoW.

 

[Mrobinson587]

I'll wait for your calcs as I'm curious to see the type of damage as the only surefire counters I can think of to +2/+2 Rhyperior are Claydol and Weezing w/Haze and/or WoW.

Torterra also resists QuakeEdge and can 2x or 4x Attack depending on damage.

 

[MagicMaster87]

I actually tried a DDaunt when HG/SS moves were first implemented with Sub/DD/Waterfall/Crunch, and it did alright, although not enough to make it UU material, unfortunately. I chose Waterfall over Crabhammer because I have a general dislike for moves with less than 100% accuracy when a similar move with perfect accuracy exists. Also, thanks to Dragon Dance boosting its Speed, you can occasionally benefit from the flinch hax. As for replacement moves for Substitute, it does get Taunt, which also blocks status as well as stuff like recovery moves, Whirlwind/Roar, and Encore, as well as opposing setup moves. Also, Toxicroak is somewhat more common than Poliwrath, so Aerial Ace might still be worth considering for those who don't want to use Sub and LO on the same set.

 

[Mrobinson587]

I actually tried a DDaunt when HG/SS moves were first implemented with Sub/DD/Waterfall/Crunch, and it did alright, although not enough to make it UU material, unfortunately. I chose Waterfall over Crabhammer because I have a general dislike for moves with less than 100% accuracy when a similar move with perfect accuracy exists. Also, thanks to Dragon Dance boosting its Speed, you can occasionally benefit from the flinch hax. As for replacement moves for Substitute, it does get Taunt, which also blocks status as well as stuff like recovery moves, Whirlwind/Roar, and Encore, as well as opposing setup moves. Also, Toxicroak is somewhat more common than Poliwrath, so Aerial Ace might still be worth considering for those who don't want to use Sub and LO on the same set.

The reason I completely omitted Aerial Ace for toxicroak is beacause it will almost always be carrying vacuum wave which will probably OHKO you even at high health.

Crunch does 55.70% - 65.47% to 4HP offensive versions of Toxicroak making AA not even worth a slot IMO. Shardpedo resists both as well but with LO, Aqua Jet+Rough Skin you will be losing a significant portion of your health before you KO it. So thats not really worth X-Scissor either.

I'm aware of Waterfall, I was really just trying to max damage output because I wanted it to be adamant but it doesn't have the speed to be successful. It really needs to outspeed Mismagius ie Jolly.

 

[Rolf]

I like the idea of the set. The only main issue I can think of right is how many pokemon can switch in on the RP and 1HKO or force out Rhyperior while he fails to 1HKO them. I'm thinking Tangrowth, Leafeon (yes, I understand they are NU), Blastoise, Claydol (who I don't think takes much from a +2 NVE SE), Slowbro (which you already mentioned), Donphan can trade blows, Weezing/Spritiomb gets the WoW, Uxie the yawn, and Hitmontop should survive a -1 attack. Since you don't have any attack EV's and are Jolly I'm sure there are random pokes that will live as well.

With the current spread and no LO Rhyperior isn't that threatening (for a sweeper) initially which kinda sucks since he needs two turns to reach full potential and he is weak to common priority. If you've got SunnyBeam moltres as a lure then all of the above pokemon I listed will be dead or close to it. What I'm getting at is do you need RP and SD? If your main counters will be out of the match why not just use the listed RP set in the analysis? You have the option of better coverage, shorter set-up time, and the ability to be threatening without setup.

I'll wait for your calcs as I'm curious to see the type of damage as the only surefire counters I can think of to +2/+2 Rhyperior are Claydol and Weezing w/Haze and/or WoW.

The thing is, two turns can be made in wuite a lot of ways in todays UU, what with Umbreon being able to mean look pass, a plethora of viable duel-screeners. I'm about to to go school right now, and I'll get those calcs up asap as soon as I get back.

A BP'd Swords Dance or Agility from Scyther also can aid, as then you only need one turn and Scyther resists/is immune to Fighting and Ground - again just watch out for waters.

Tangrowth has and will always be the #1 counter to Rhyperior - I'm not even sure a +2 Megahorn OHKOs it if you EV it right.

 

[MagicMaster87]

Tangrowth has and will always be the #1 counter to Rhyperior - I'm not even sure a +2 Megahorn OHKOs it if you EV it right.

Actually, with a Life Orb and 120 Attack EVs, a +2 Jolly Megahorn will always OHKO max/max+ Tangrowth, assuming it hits:

692 Atk vs 383 Def & 404 HP (120 Base Power): 406 - 478 (100.50% - 118.32%)

Just felt like throwing that out there.

 

[LMK]

The thing is, two turns can be made in wuite a lot of ways in todays UU, what with Umbreon being able to mean look pass, a plethora of viable duel-screeners. I'm about to to go school right now, and I'll get those calcs up asap as soon as I get back.

A BP'd Swords Dance or Agility from Scyther also can aid, as then you only need one turn and Scyther resists/is immune to Fighting and Ground - again just watch out for waters.

Tangrowth has and will always be the #1 counter to Rhyperior - I'm not even sure a +2 Megahorn OHKOs it if you EV it right.

For some reason I thought +2 LO SE would kill Tangrowth but those Def and HP stats are quite high.

 

[d2m]

I ran the double boost set with a Passho Berry (water resist), was unimpressed...I don't see any situation in which it could realistically get 2 boosts.

 

[Heysup]

I ran the double boost set with a Passho Berry (water resist), was unimpressed...I don't see any situation in which it could realistically get 2 boosts.

Double Screen possibly?

I'm not sure if I want to try this or not....

 

[Stagnant]

Baton Passing it +2 Attack or Speed and letting Rhyperior fill in the other works most effeciently.

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

I agree with Ex Point here. Running just Stone Edge and Earthquake is leaving you open to getting walled easily, especially without max Attack and LO, and thus requires much more prior weakening. Rock + Ground is good coverage, but Megahorn is the reason why it is especially great on Rhyperior.

 

[A.P.]

Personally, I feel Swellow would be the best teammate for Rhyperior, since it lures in numerous Rock attacks, and the occasional Electric one.

Sub/BP/Agility/Return @ Liechi?

 

[Stagnant]

When I used Rhyperior I used Lead Swellow @ T-Orb with Facade - Agility - Protect - Baton Pass. No one expects it... though a more dedicated passer may be more efficient.

 

[Rolf]

I don't know, I really find a lot of time to set up. Maybe it's just my team. I just swept fms with it :\ Here are the calcs, after an SD:

EQ v. 252HP/252Def +Def Blastoise: (59.67% - 70.44%)

SE v. 252HP/176Def +Def Weezing: (60.18% - 70.96%)

SE v. 252HP/144Def +Def Claydol: (35.19% - 41.36%)

EQ v. the new LeadTomb (244HP/0Def +Def): (84.44% - 99.67%) 74.26% OHKO with rocks
EQ v. 252HP/252Def +Def Spiritomb: (67.11% - 79.28%)

SE v. 252HP/252Def +Def Uxie: (50.28% - 59.60%) 51.25% 2HKO with rocks factoring in accuracy

EQ v. 252HP/4Def Neutral Hitmontop w/ Intimidate: (76.97% - 90.79%)
EQ v. 252HP/4Def Neutral Hitmontop w/ Technician: (101.97% - 120.39%)

These are the real interesting calcs though - the defensive calcs.

Hitmontop 252Att +Att LO Mach Punch: (31.25% - 36.81%)
Same w/o LO: (23.84% - 28.47%)
Hitmontop 252Att +Att LO Close Combat: (61.81% - 73.15%)
Same w/o LO: (47.92% - 56.48%)

Honchkrow 252Att +Att LO Sucker Punch: (33.33% - 39.58%)
Same with Brave Bird: (25.00% - 29.63%)

Azumarill 252Att +Att Choice Band Aqua Jet: (66.67% - 79.17%)
Same with Lefties > CB: (44.44% - 52.78%)

Toxicroak 252SpA +SpA LO Vacuum Wave: (39.81% - 47.22%)

Claydol 114SpA Neutral Earth Power: (46.76% - 55.56%) 11.97% chance to 2HKO

As you can see, priority has a great deal of trouble taking you down. Pretty much the only way to get rid of him is:
1) Have something that can take an EQ/SE and can actually do something back. (Blastiose, Weezing, Spiritomb, Milotic, Slowbro, Torterra, Defensive Venusaur)
2) Hit it with a boatload of priority, preferably Aqua Jets from the likes of Azumarill or Feraligatr.

Ways to fix this from the Rhyperior side:
1) Get rid of the opponents bulky waters which eliminates half the threat list
2) Add duel screens to effectively half everything shown here
3) Use Umbreon to Mean Look something that can't do anything to you (Hitmontop) and Yawn/BP to Perior
4) Just play smart in general - I almost always net a double dance. (I think I want to name this set Double Dancing Rhyperior just because that's what I called it first in the irc)

So yeah, fun stuff. For reference and future calcs if you all want to do some and post:

Rhyperior has 432HP/328Att/296Def/146SpD/187Spe before any stat boosts.

 

[d2m]

Look, the problem with the set is you have to choose between power (the 2HKO on all those walls) or the speed to outspeed said walls that can all OHKO you with Surf. Any bulky water can take 1 hit, even with SD, and OHKO back.

Thus, you need to remove every water type from the opposing team before he can sweep, and even then, if you SD, there's stuff that outspeeds and finishes you off, if you RP, you lack the power to hit secondary walls.

Sure, it's a decent lategame sweeper, but there are much better ones.

 

[DFang]

While he may be NU, I think Muk could find a great spot in UU. It recently received pain split from tutors which makes it that much harder to kill with this set:

Muk (Careful) @ Black Sludge
HP 252, SpDef 252
-Curse
-Shadow Sneak
-Brick Break
-Pain Split

Curse up, Pain Split for recovery and take a nice chunk out of your opponent. Proceed to attack with the unresisted combo of ghost/fight and recover as needed.

 

[Boingo]

I love CurseMuk and used him to some success in the first version of "New UU", but I think no matter what set he runs, UU is a shitty tier for him as long as Rhyperior and Donphan are around.

He also dearly misses his Poison Jab/Gunk Shot STAB.

EDIT: Then again he's always worth a try since he absorbs TSpikes, can't be tricked, and laughs in the faces of powerful UU threats like Gallade, Mismagius, Alakazam and Espeon (thanks to Shadow Sneak).

 

[Son_of_Shadoo]

^True, but he's hardly switching in on any of them... Except possibly Gallade, but only if it doesn't run Psycho Cut.

 

[M BLADE]

CurseMuk is nice, though rather low at power without any STAB move(a base 75 attack being your strongest attack isn't something i would call strong)
Cursemuk selling point is:
-bulkyness(105/100 defenses are great)
-Not suscetible to Trick(really nice)
-Immune to poison(for non-curserest sets its really good)

So Muk is almost like a ideal Curse user, protected by things that usually shut Cursers down...

Except it can't use any recovery move(Pain Split? On something with a base 105 HP? Really?) like the other almost ideal curse user(Gastrodon, who learns Recover and has Sticky Hold, but is shut down by Toxic)

I use him as a lead now:


Muk@Life Orb
252 atk/forgot the rest lol
Adamant

Gunk Shot
Explosion
Brick Break
Shadow Sneak

In my opinion, a good lead. Gunk Shot is the STAB option(a powerful one), Shadow Sneak does a number to Alakazam and picks Froslass off before the Destiny Bond.
Brick Break is used to hit Omastar/Kabutops/Cloyster leads and Ambipom. It also breaks screens that Alakazam/Uxie might try setting up.
Explosion when you're done or when you need to take out the opposite lead in one shot.


PS:About RP SD Rhyperior: call me crazy, but i prefer Armaldo for that task. It's weaker(not by much) but it also has a much better typing meaning it is easier to set up those Swords Dances and Rock Polishes.
The last move can be X-Scissor, Earthquake or Aqua Tail. I used Aqua Tail on my RP SD Armaldo that i used long time ago.

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

^True, but he's hardly switching in on any of them... Except possibly Gallade, but only if it doesn't run Psycho Cut.

If Muk is going to switch into any of them, it would be Mismagius. As a special defensive tank it can avoid a 2HKO from unboosted +2 Shadow Ball and at least 2HKO back with Payback + Shadow Ball, or if running a more offensive spread, easily take one Shadow Ball and OHKO with Payback or 2HKO with Shadow Sneak.

Gallade is far less certain. It would need to run quite a physically bulky spread (i.e. not to its strengths) to deal well with Psycho Cut-less variants, but then would probably struggle to reliably KO back against those that run Stone Edge.

 

[GREEN00]

I'd like some help with an Entei set I'm considering building (wifi, not shoddy. This is for UU)

Entei@leftovers
Pressure
Brave/Relaxed
252 HP/56 sp.def/200 def
Stone Edge
Fire Blast
Calm Mind/Rest
Reflect/Will-o-Wisp

I typically prefer buffs in power over accuracy so long as the disparity isn't wide, hence Fire Blast over Flamethrower. Entei does not possess overpowering sp.atk to begin with, but I feel his focus on bulk and FB's lack of PP outweigh Flamethrower's accuracy.

Fire+Rock gives decent neutral coverage, though Water/Ground, Water/Fighting, Fire/Ground, and Rock/Ground resist both. However, WoW irritates if not cripples most all UU pokes of those typings.

WoW is preferable over Reflect but the consequences of a miss are significant if not severe.

I'm unsure of how well Calm Mind will function, I feel Entei would likely be better served to invest more into his sp.def and to run Rest.

I have no experience with Entei and there are a great many qualities to consider.

Thank you for your time.

 

[Flamewheeler]

Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 68 HP/160 Atk/188 Spd/94 SAtk
Mild nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Synthesis
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Power Whip

All I have to say is wow. I made this set based off of my semi-bulky, yet offensive venusaur and Bluewind's defensive set in his RMT. I honetly didn't expect it to do much, but when played right, this set rapes.

Evs

Hp: For a little bulk...duh.
Atk: IIRC, the give a clean 2HKO on chansey and slowbro.
SAtk: Just to give it a little oomph and so I can hit pure grassers expecting to wall me. Oh, and I believe slude bomb finishes Slowbro off after a power whip. (I just don't want to risk a power whip miss)
Spd: Just enough to outrun adamant Honchkrow. Although the LO might give them the hint that I may be faster, I just like the extra insurance. Witht the mild nature, her physical defense is dropped which makes me want to drop the speed because it just makes too many mind games when playing against honchy, but IIRC, honchy kills with sucker punch on neutral defense anyway.

So, tell me whatcha think.

 

[Gazooki]

Pokemon: Dugtrio
Set: Endure-ReversalTrio
Move 1: Endure
Move 2: Reversal
Move 3: EarthQuake
Move 4: Sucker Punch
Item: Liechi Berry
Ability: Arena Trap
Nature: Adamant/Jolly (depends if you want to outspeed anything specific)
EVs:6HP/252Atk/252Spe

It's a simple endure-reversal set, but it can revenge kill too! Liechi Berry is probably the best option since you'll want powerful attacks.

If something gets taken down, send Dugtrio in. Then, Endure whatever attack your opponent uses for the attack boost. EQ or reversal if you outspeed, sucker punch if you don't (or your opponent's weak to Dark-type attacks). This set can sweep entire teams if they're not prepared!