First RMT, new in these parts

Pheynix Ignition

Hey all, I've been recently introduced into competitive battling after a few friends of mine restarted playing D/P/Pt and I'm too competitive for my own good and started coming here and using ShoddyBattle. I'm looking for any help as this is the first team that i've constructed.

Anyways this is the team that I'm using right now...

Gliscor.png

Gliscor (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 HP/40 Def/216 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt

I've switched out of the suicide lead Infernape into a more steady Gliscor with Taunt and Stealth Rock. Taunt prevents a Smeargle/Roserade lead from sleeping as well as still being able to provide Stealth Rock input and Earthquake to allow for sweeping, and if Gliscor manages to get hit (which is bound to happen sometime right?) Roost is there to provide life gain.

lucario_04.gif

Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Extremespeed
- Ice Punch
- Swords Dance

Originally a ChoiceBander now a SD Lucario for better sweeping and late game sweeping, also available to take out Mance a little bit easier without stupidly risking my own. Extremespeed was a must include for this list as its great for the little resists normal moves have, and Ice Punch is for any other pesky flying/dragon types. The choice banding was nice but the locking that it gave was a little problematic at times and this change along with the other major change to scizor allows for some strengthened matchups.

Vaporeon.jpg

Vaporeon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 188 HP/252 Def/68 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Wish
- Protect
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Electric]

I wanted to include some sort of support/wall in my team and Vaporeon does it with this move list, able to protect himself after a wish to get life back and get himself back into the fight. HP Elec has been added for another hard Gyarados counter as well as slight Dragon counters when needed in a pinch.

youthinkdotcom_2924635_168168.jpg

Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Pursuit
- Superpower

Now from a faux Choice Bander to an actual bander, with the additions of U-Turn, Pursuit and Superpower to take out Psychics, Darks and Steel types better. Also the scouting that is allowed with U-Turn that is rather needed and nice with this team. Bullet Punch is still there for priority attacks. This scizor allows for some better sweeping and certainly better versatility.


salamence.png

Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 232 Atk/252 Spd/24 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Fire Blast

This is your standard DDMence, although I haven't exactly used DD to its fullest right now, but Outrage/EQ/and Fire Blast has been amazing for me. I chose Salamence for his absurd strengths that he has and his speed and attack make for good physical sweeping to go along with Infernape's physical sweeping. I really like how hard this guy can hit with Life Orb and the usage of STAB on Outrage. Fire Blast is here to allow for OHKOs on Skarm and an ability to sweep and the EV spread has changed up to allow for that as well.

242.png

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def/80 SAtk/176 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Wish
- Softboiled
- Flamethrower
- Toxic

Blissey has joined the team over Starmie as Ghost types have been kicking my team to the curb with little resistance, also getting totally swept more then once by a Choice Scarf Latias has made me want to change up the HUGE weakness my team apparently has to Electric. Blissey counters the recent troubles that I've had really well; Gengar, Rotom-A, and Latias. Flamethrower allows me to deal with Magnezone rather easily, Wish/Softboiled/Toxic allows for alot of stalling out and support with Wish when needed.
 
I'm not so sure the Iron Defense Baton Pass Scizor is the best idea for three reasons.
1) If you are going to Baton Pass to Salamence, you should go Swords Dance or Agility; something to help him sweep, which would let you get rid of DD on him too for another attack.
2) The increased Defense on Salamence might help, yeah. But his main weakness is ice. You will see Ice Beam / Blizzard more than Ice Punch out there.
3) Technician Bullet Punch Scizor is one of the most deadly threats in OU. You know that Scizor has incredible potential because he's also very usable in an Uber team. I think you should take advantage of his amazing sweeping ability. Here's an example of one way to have a Bullet Punch Scizor:

Scizor @ Life Orb
Adamant Nature - 252 Atk, 252 HP (HP over speed because Bullet Punch nullifies the speed)
Technician
-Bullet Punch
-Brick Break
-Roost
-Swords Dance

This is the set I use, but you could fool the enemy and make them think that it's a CB Scizor by giving him an Iron Plate. That'll increase Bullet Punch's damage by 20%, only 10% less than Life orb, also getting rid of the need for Roost. So you can put Bug Bite or X-Scissor in that spot too. If you start off with a Bullet Punch with the Iron Plate, they'll assume it's a CB, and they'll switch to something that can wall Bullet Punch, such as a steel. Then you can go ahead and Brick Break while they yell at their DS :)

Starmie looks great, consider replacing Recover with Ice Beam for dragons, but overall, he looks great!

Salamence's set is perfect if you decide to change Scizor to a sweeper. But if you decide to keep him as a Baton Passer (preferably Swords Dance / Agility), throw an attack move in instead of Dragon Dance, maybe Crunch or Brick Break.\

I like the Vaporeon; my Umbreon has the same set except Payback instead of Surf :) Works wonders for me, so I bet it does for you too!

Not sure how well Endeavor will do with Infernape, I can imagine it doing well because Vacuum Wave is a priority move, but it's not my favorite move, because the results aren't very constant.

My walls are afraid of your Lucario, don't change a thing ;)
 
Thanks dmatthews, I didn't really like what the scizor was doing for me so I'm gonna go with your suggestion on the sweeper, and leave the Salamence as it is, and put X-Scissor in Roost's spot.

I have experienced a bit of a problem with this team however, Zapdos/Magnezone tend to leave me asking for more.. anything that I should do about that?
 
Well Zapdos is pretty bulky, so I'd say use Salamence's DD'd Stone Edge. I personally use Toxic with my Umbreon, since defense doesn't affect that, but that doesn't work for you with Vaporeon cause of the electric weakness.

For Magnezone...I think that Scizor's Brick Break will take care of him, after a swords dance for sure. Otherwise, Salamence's Earthquake if he hasn't used Magnet Rise.

To Aeron Ee1: I think that he doesn't have Fake Out on Infernape because, like he said, "High-risk High-reward appeals to me"

So he's going different from the standards there. Risky? Yes, but I think experimenting is good.

And I think Philip7086 is right with the Jolly nature, I didn't see that. Sp. Def is needed more than Sp. Atk on Salamence.
 
Aeron, the Infernape i'm leading with starts with a Vacuum Wave/Stealth Rock, then Endeavors the opponent to 1%. He's a suicide lead. I haven't really tested Fake Out, but I'm happy with the way Infernape plays right now.

Philip, thanks for noticing that I'll change it right now and update the thread to what I have.
 
Hi,

I'm not going to do a full rate right now, I just want to tell you that your team has a huge weakness to Spore Punch Breloom. If Lucario's trapped in Crunch that could cause you a lot of trouble. If you switch out you'll get spored, If you stay, Breloom resists Crunch. Vaporeon and Starmie is easily 2HKO'd by Seed Bomb, Scizor, Lucario and Infernape are easily taken down by Focus Punch and Salamence is 2HKO'd by Focus Punch(Stealth Rock included). Since, Breloom has no real counter, I highly suggest that you watch out for it. I hope this helps! Good Luck!
 
Slyguy46 said:
I don't have much input here, but I'd like to point out that all of your Salamence's attacks are physical - the 24 SAtt EV's would be better spent on SDef or Speed.
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Speed's Maxed out as far as EV's go so I'm going to put it into Att.

WoOoShoOo!! said:
Hi,

I'm not going to do a full rate right now, I just want to tell you that your team has a huge weakness to Spore Punch Breloom. If Lucario's trapped in Crunch that could cause you a lot of trouble. If you switch out you'll get spored, If you stay, Breloom resists Crunch. Vaporeon and Starmie is easily 2HKO'd by Seed Bomb, Scizor, Lucario and Infernape are easily taken down by Focus Punch and Salamence is 2HKO'd by Focus Punch(Stealth Rock included). Since, Breloom has no real counter, I highly suggest that you watch out for it. I hope this helps! Good Luck!
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I've noticed that myself, I try to keep my Lucario from getting trapped into a bad move for the time, he gets switched out alot. Typically its either Extremespeed or Ice Punch that he's locked in.
 
Pheynix Ignition said:
I've noticed that myself, I try to keep my Lucario from getting trapped into a bad move for the time, he gets switched out alot. Typically its either Extremespeed or Ice Punch that he's locked in.
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So, Extremespeed or Ice Punch, eh? Then AgilitySubPetaya Empoleon sweeps your team. lol.
 
WoOoShoOo!! said:
So, Extremespeed or Ice Punch, eh? Then AgilitySubPetaya Empoleon sweeps your team. lol.
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The first post you had here at advice but no suggestion. Now this. I'm pretty sure I said, I switch my Lucario a lot to avoid unwanted locks.

Again, what do you suggest? What member looks weak to you and what looks like it could be changed?
 
WoOoShoOo!! said:
So, Extremespeed or Ice Punch, eh? Then AgilitySubPetaya Empoleon sweeps your team. lol.
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Not really, Vaporeon and Starmie stop those with Ice beam + Surf as there offensive options, if it carries Grass Knot Salamence can stop it.

I think it might be better for you to swith to a Choice Band for your Scizor and run Swords dance on Lucario. Scizor has an excellent scouting move in U-turn which makes him such a good choice bander. CB Lucario cant break walls nearly as well as SD Lucario so you might want to try that out, and you have Vaporeon as a wishpasser to heal any damage Scizor might recieve from spikes and Stealth rock.

I think its a pretty good team overall
 
Master Chef said:
Not really, Vaporeon and Starmie stop those with Ice beam + Surf as there offensive options, if it carries Grass Knot Salamence can stop it.

I think it might be better for you to swith to a Choice Band for your Scizor and run Swords dance on Lucario. Scizor has an excellent scouting move in U-turn which makes him such a good choice bander. CB Lucario cant break walls nearly as well as SD Lucario so you might want to try that out, and you have Vaporeon as a wishpasser to heal any damage Scizor might recieve from spikes and Stealth rock.

I think its a pretty good team overall
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Master, what should be dropped off of Scizor and Lucario for those changes? X-Scissor and Ice Punch respectively? I haven't tinkered with U-turn but i've seen its usefulness when faced against it.
 
Master Chef said:
Not really, Vaporeon and Starmie stop those with Ice beam + Surf as there offensive options, if it carries Grass Knot Salamence can stop it.
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Lol. I wouldn't say that Salamence would stop it. Salamence takes 61.93% - 73.11% from +1 Torrent Surf. No Stealth Rock Included. So, a Clean 2HKO?
 
Yeah SD> Ice Punch and U-turn> X- Scizzor. Looking through again Zapdos really hurts you but I guess you could stone edge it with Mence or ice Beam with Starmie, even if you have no reliable switch ins.



WoOoShoOo!! said:
Lol. I wouldn't say that Salamence would stop it. Salamence takes 61.93% - 73.11% from +1 Torrent Surf. No Stealth Rock Included. So, a Clean 2HKO?
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what before mence KOs it with EQ??? Also Vappy only takes grass knot with 60 BP so it can easily wear it down with surfs when empoleon is below 1/3, enough to at least beat it with Lucarios ES. heck if Infernape is still alive it can hit it with Vacuum wave. I dont think Empoleon is a problem
 
I really don't think lucario fits in well on this team at all, especially not as a choice bander. What you're looking for is something pretty fast with good defensive typing and a large variety of options that can hit hard and cover a lot of opponents, so I'd recommend scarf latias with the following set:

Latias @ Choice Scarf
Timid - 252 spatk/252 spe/4 hp
Surf
Thunderbolt
Draco Meteor
Trick

This is a great emergency check for a lot of setup threats your team would otherwise be weak to (like subpetaya empoleon, agiligross, ddmence/gyara) and draco meteor over dragon pulse gives you a lot of immediate power. Trick helps you to deal with blissey, and this is a great trick receiver if you expect something to try to throw a choice scarf at you.

SD lucario is also a great option, but if you do that definitely switch to the standard CB Scizor set, it'll help a lot as far as getting switch-in options and dealing damage with u-turn/bullet punch.
 
Master Chef said:
what before mence KOs it with EQ??? Also Vappy only takes grass knot with 60 BP so it can easily wear it down with surfs when empoleon is below 1/3, enough to at least beat it with Lucarios ES. heck if Infernape is still alive it can hit it with Vacuum wave. I dont think Empoleon is a problem
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Of course, mence can OHKO with EQ, but you assume that Salamence has full HP, what if it doesn't? On Vappy, yes, I agree that it can beat Empoleon with Surf, If, IF, Vaporeon has enough HP. Once again, you only assume that Vappy's HP is full, but if not, then it's GG. Empoleon takes 17.31% - 20.83% from Vappy's Surf, while Vappy takes 43.53% - 51.29% from Empoleon's Grass Knot. Since Vappy takes 43% - 51% and without Ice Beam, Salamence can easily sweep his team. Everyone on his team is easily exterminated by +1 Outrage. Sure Scizor resists Outrage but not Fire Blast. Master Chef: what before mence KOs it with EQ???. Before? I don't think so, like mence outspeeds +2 Empoleon.
 
Kenshiro said:
I really don't think lucario fits in well on this team at all, especially not as a choice bander. What you're looking for is something pretty fast with good defensive typing and a large variety of options that can hit hard and cover a lot of opponents, so I'd recommend scarf latias with the following set:

Latias @ Choice Scarf
Timid - 252 spatk/252 spe/4 hp
Surf
Thunderbolt
Draco Meteor
Trick

This is a great emergency check for a lot of setup threats your team would otherwise be weak to (like subpetaya empoleon, agiligross, ddmence/gyara) and draco meteor over dragon pulse gives you a lot of immediate power. Trick helps you to deal with blissey, and this is a great trick receiver if you expect something to try to throw a choice scarf at you.

SD lucario is also a great option, but if you do that definitely switch to the standard CB Scizor set, it'll help a lot as far as getting switch-in options and dealing damage with u-turn/bullet punch.
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I'm going to switch to SDLucario and a CB Scizor set, which will also give me Pursuit on the Scizor and either give Lucario Ice Punch or Stone Edge. Probably more leaning more towards Ice Punce then Stone Edge. I definitely have been using Scizor more as an immediate sweeper and Lucario with a little set up, so these two changes are rather obvious now that its much more apparent for me to do.

WoOoShoOo!! said:
Of course, mence can OHKO with EQ, but you assume that Salamence has full HP, what if it doesn't? On Vappy, yes, I agree that it can beat Empoleon with Surf, If, IF, Vaporeon has enough HP. Once again, you only assume that Vappy's HP is full, but if not, then it's GG. Empoleon takes 17.31% - 20.83% from Vappy's Surf, while Vappy takes 43.53% - 51.29% from Empoleon's Grass Knot. Since Vappy takes 43% - 51% and without Ice Beam, Salamence can easily sweep his team. Everyone on his team is easily exterminated by +1 Outrage. Sure Scizor resists Outrage but not Fire Blast. Master Chef: what before mence KOs it with EQ???. Before? I don't think so, like mence outspeeds +2 Empoleon.
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If you noticed, I've switched the recover out of Starmie for Ice Beam, also the other changes that I'm making (SD Lucario and a CB Scizor) may help other weaknesses a bit as well.
 
Pheynix Ignition said:
If you noticed, I've switched the recover out of Starmie for Ice Beam, also the other changes that I'm making (SD Lucario and a CB Scizor) may help other weaknesses a bit as well.
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lol, of course, I've noticed that. SD Luke would give you an excellent sweeper as well as giving you a late-game sweeper. CB Scizor allows you to scout and sweep. You should give it a shot! Lol, I just noticed, you've switched their strategy. SD Luke > CB Luke, CB Scizor > SD Scizor. lol.
 
A little issue I've come up with, and perhaps this is just my own fault is setting up my Mence and my Lucario. I tend to not know when I get get my Salamence or Lucario in and set up against the opposition, is there an easier way to do this or does it just take a "feel" that I don't have yet.
 
The ideal time to set up with Salamence and Lucario is on choiced attacks and resisted moves. For example, if you Starmie just got pursuited by a banded scizor or tyranitar you switch Lucario in to set up since a choiced pursuit won't be hurting him. Another situation is if your scizor just got koed by heatran's choiced flamethrower, you would switch in Salamance and set up. There are multiple times to set up you just need to play smart. Hope that helps!
 
About how much damage can a Lucario take from a Ludicolo using Grass Knot? Is the Lucario a good counter to it or should I try and move lets say the Starmie outta the team to get a better counter guy for the guys that have been causing problems for me, Ludicolo, a set up Gyarados, Electric users in general, as the Vaporeon I've felt has been a much better job as a team member then the Starmie. Starmie has had a hard time killing guys where Vaporeon is an amazing support and can sweep away some guys that are extremely weak against water and wall in certain cases as well.
 
About Infernape , I'd say get rid of the endeavor . why ? You're too fast . you wont be able to KO next turn .

EG: Infernape Uses Stealth rock
Azelf uses Psychic
Infernape uses Endeavor
Azelf uses Psychic = DEAD INFERNAPE , While azelf has 1 hp .

If You're aiming for the Lead to have 1 hp after you setup stealth rocks , then this build is fine . but imo it isnt as effective as , say , U-Turn ? I mean , Your Infernape will still have capabillities of fighting . and it has that priority move . I know U-Turn is physical , But , think of the possibillites .
 
inumika said:
About Infernape , I'd say get rid of the endeavor . why ? You're too fast . you wont be able to KO next turn .

EG: Infernape Uses Stealth rock
Azelf uses Psychic
Infernape uses Endeavor
Azelf uses Psychic = DEAD INFERNAPE , While azelf has 1 hp .

If You're aiming for the Lead to have 1 hp after you setup stealth rocks , then this build is fine . but imo it isnt as effective as , say , U-Turn ? I mean , Your Infernape will still have capabillities of fighting . and it has that priority move . I know U-Turn is physical , But , think of the possibillites .
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Actually,if he can get the opposing lead down to 1HP,he can easily KO it with Vacuum Wave,that's the reason Ape has got a priority move,as is mentioned in the original post.If he happens not to be able to execute this plan with Ape,it's just the bad possibility coming true;he's mentioned the fact he acknowledges the risk.

As far as Lucario is concerned,I agree with everyone else saying that a Swords Dance set is better than a Choice Band one,but I can't really help with the last move.Depends on what you tend to confront more often late game I suppose.

About Scizor,although I for one usually opt for some SD set,CB helps a lot when it comes to revenge killing with Bullet Punch and weakening stuff with U-Turn.

That's all I can think of right now,hope I've helped at least a tiny bit.
 
Hello there. Unfortunately, I didn't really read the previous people's rates, so I'll just start with what you have in the OP.

I noticed quite a large SD Lucario weakness, as it can easily set up on a Pursuit from Scizor. Your best bet would be to Intimidate juggle with Salamence, but that would require too much prediction and the opponent could just SD again. Also, your team has problems with SubRoost Zapdos, as it can easily Toxic stall your team. Therefore, I recommend you replace your lead Infernape with a Gliscor instead. Gliscor allows you to effectively check any opposing Lucario and can also Taunt to prevent enemy Zapdos from doing anything. It can also set up SR for your team. It provides another way to stop Agility Metagross and DD Tyranitar, although both 2HKO. However, with Scizor and Vaporeon (which can't be OHKOed), your team is good enough against them. Try out this set:

Gliscor @ Leftovers
Jolly | 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
Earthquake / Stealth Rock / Taunt / Roost

Earthquake helps take out Metagross, Tyranitar, and Lucario. Stealth Rock is Stealth Rock, while Taunt prevents Roserade and Smeargle from putting you to sleep. It also helps prevent Stealth Rock from being set up. Roost lets Gliscor live longer.

Secondly, Starmie can only check Gyarados near full health. Due to the fact that you're not using Recover, that EV spread is pointless. Therefore, I recommend you go with a more offensive version of Starmie. With a Life Orb, teams without Latias, Blissey, or Snorlax are hard-pressed to counter Starmie. Life Orb also allows you to 2HKO enemy Rotom-a with Surf, allowing you to Rapid Spin away any entry hazards. Try out this set:

Starmie @ Life Orb
Timid | 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Surf / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam / Rapid Spin

Surf is STAB, although Hydro Pump could be used for more power. Hydro Pump ensures the 2HKO on Rotom-a though. Thunderbolt and Ice Beam provide for boltbeam coverage, while Rapid Spin removes entry hazards. Although Rapid Spin on a Life Orb set may seem strange, you really want to keep the momentum going and Recover slows it down.

Due to Starmie not having a defensively-oriented set, Vaporeon would now need HP Electric in order to check opposing Gyarados. Replace Toxic for this.

Also, you might want to think about going with Fire Blast on Salamence. The reason behind this is that Vaporeon and Starmie are the only two things that can dent it, and Vaporeon is defensively oriented, so it's only Starmie. With Fire Blast, it can easily OHKO opposing Skarmory and allow Salamence to sweep. If you are using Fire Blast, replace Stone Edge for it and go with a spread of 232 Atk / 24 SpA / 252 Spe with a Naive nature.

That's about it. Good luck!
 
With the Infernape I was going with the Stealth Rock setup with an endeavor followup to knock their lead down to 1hp, then use the rest of the team to deal with it as needed.

I'm gonna go with the Gliscor and changes to Vaporeon and Starmie for a little while and see how I like them. Also, a quick question for the members; Is there any use for a Crobat in this team at all?
 
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