Stallish with Offense, it works

[Fear The Pika]

NOTE: This is a Wifi Team, Rotom forms aren't even considered.


This is the team I've been working on for a long time, so much different from my last team. Now I'm not very good at posting RMT threads, so I'm just going to try to copy what Lightsabre did.=P

Team at a Glance version 1.0

Team at a Glance version 1.1

I will bold things I'm not sure of, and italize things I've changed.


Lead Toxic Spiker

Timid
Focus Sash
Natural cure
252 SA/S/ 6 HP

Sleep Powder
Toxic Spikes
Leaf Storm
HP Fire (70)

The works against almost everything lead, Roserade is very good for my team. Besides covering some weaknesses, it sets up the ever helpful Toxic Spikes. Most Azelf leads will use Taunt against me, so I go straight for Leaf Storm, giving them the choice to get rocks up or bring me down to my sash if they do taunt me. Sleep Powder eliminates some others attempts to get rocks up, HP Fire is for Forretress and Metagross leads. It doesn't do much against Infernape and Trick Jirachi leads, but it does well against most everything else.

Synergy

Go To
Heatran/Latias/Vaporeon for Fire
Metagross/Latias for Psychic

Takes
Fighting/Grass
Status


The Lead-who-is-not-a-lead

Adamant
Shucca Berry
Clear Body
236 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 8 Spe

Stealth Rock
Earthquake
Bullet Punch
Explosion

Lead Metagross set without being a lead almost never gets taunted, and people will run thinking that it's Agilitygross. Bullet Punch is my one Priority move on this team, and the switched Attack and HP EVs is for taking down T-tar and other threats with low HP.

Synergy

Go To
Heatran/Latias/Vaporeon for Fire
Gliscor/Latias for Ground

Takes
Psychic/Steel/Flying/Grass/Normal/Ice/Poison/Rock/Dragon

The Special Sweeper

Modest
Life Orb
Levitate
252 SA/S/ 6 HP

Draco Meteor
Surf
HP Fire (70)
Recover

Basically just a Special Sweeper, HP Fire catches Scizor and Forretress, and the combo of Surf and Draco Meteor is almost completely unresisted. Recover off the LO damage after a while, counters the non DD Salamence and Infernape relatively easily, is also a Pokemon I run to for ground and fighting weakness most of the time.

Synergy

Go To
Zapdos/Heatran for Bug
Heatran/Metagross/Vaporeon for Ice
Heatran/Metagross for Dragon
Heatran for Ghost
Heatran for Dark

Takes
Psychic/Ground/Fire/Water/Electric/Fighting
Choice Items


The Semi-Mixed Sweeper

Naive
Life Orb
Flash Fire
252 SA/252 S/4 A

Fire Blast
HP Grass (70)
Earth Power
Explosion
HP Grass kills the only thing that successfully walls this, Swampert, although Seismic Toss Blissey gives it problems. A combination of SE and Toxic Spikes will let you KO normal Blissey that don't run Aromatherapy. Should I go to Torment-tran here?

Synergy

Go To
Gliscor/Latias/Roserade for Fighting
Latias/Gliscor for Ground

Takes
Psychic/Fire/Bug/Ice/Bug/Grass/Normal/Steel/Dragon/Ghost/Dark/Poison
Choice Items

The Wish-Support

Vaporeon@leftovers
nature: bold
EVs: 188 HP \ 252 Def \ 68 Spe
-surf
-hidden power electric
-wish
-protect

A new addition, I'm still trying this out. Pretty standard, wish support for the LO, gyarados counter.

Gliscor@leftovers
nature: jolly
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP \ 40 Def \ 216 Spe
-earthquake
-stone edge
-taunt
-roost

Another change, helps with my weakness to Lucario and T-tar



There’s my team.

Noteable dangers:
Teams with both Revenge Kill Weavile and Mixed HP Ice Infernape


Swapped out Pokemon

Sassy
Leftovers
Synchronize
252 HP / 200 Atk / 56 SpD

Curse
Payback
Rest
Sleep Talk

This is my absolute FAVORITE team member, she does so many things. After one curse, she takes a U-turn from a Choice Banded Scizor fairly easily, letting you rest up that same turn. Toxic Spikes help with this a whole lot, it lets you outlast DD T-tar and other set-up Pokemon. This Pokemon takes most Status and Special hits for my team, and after a couple of Curses it's easy to stand up to almost any physical sweeper, even if they have Fighting moves. This does have some problems with Taunt and Choice specs/scarf tricks, but there's not really anything to do about them except switch.

Timid
Leftovers
Pressure
248 HP/184 D/76 S

Substitute
Roost
HP Ice (70)
T-bolt

Just read the analysis page for the Sub-Roost set, though I put D EVs instead of SD, it's what my team could use more. Another Scizor counter, but better than the others.

 

[Fear The Pika]

Reserved.

Please post now, all non stupid advice is welcome.

 

[Lightsabre]

hey FearthePika. first off, you better check your threat list, since you have a lot of stuff that only pertains to my team(see Jirachi for example).

Now I've faced your team tons of times, and I know it's effective, but I was wondering what you'll do to an SubPetaya Empoleon? It's an extremely powerful sweeper, that almost always comes with Toxic Spikes and Stealth rock. assuming that your Metgross has taken just 35% damage, it OKOHs your Roserade with Ice Beam, Metagross with Surf(again, it takes about 65% so Meta at full health can survive once) Umbreon can stick around, but you lose once you sleep, because it 3KOs you with surf, Heatran is OKOHed of course, Latias is outsped and dealt 70%, so if it's taken any damage at all it'll die, and Zapdos takes 58% at least, and it won't be able to stall at all.

Now, several of those were max damage, but a good Empoleon player will save it until everything is worn down, so you'll little chance against it. to mitigate this, I think you should change Zapdos to an offensive for your scizor counter and remove Latias for Vapporeon. Vapporeon can offer you wish support, which is always helpful, and walls the heck out of Empoleon. the only problem you could have with this is the loss of a ground resist, but I think Zapdos can take care of that well enough

 

[Fear The Pika]

hey FearthePika. first off, you better check your threat list, since you have a lot of stuff that only pertains to my team(see Jirachi for example).

Now I've faced your team tons of times, and I know it's effective, but I was wondering what you'll do to an SubPetaya Empoleon? It's an extremely powerful sweeper, that almost always comes with Toxic Spikes and Stealth rock. assuming that your Metgross has taken just 35% damage, it OKOHs your Roserade with Ice Beam, Metagross with Surf(again, it takes about 65% so Meta at full health can survive once) Umbreon can stick around, but you lose once you sleep, because it 3KOs you with surf, Heatran is OKOHed of course, Latias is outsped and dealt 70%, so if it's taken any damage at all it'll die, and Zapdos takes 58% at least, and it won't be able to stall at all.

Now, several of those were max damage, but a good Empoleon player will save it until everything is worn down, so you'll little chance against it. to mitigate this, I think you should change Zapdos to an offensive for your scizor counter and remove Latias for Vapporeon. Vapporeon can offer you wish support, which is always helpful, and walls the heck out of Empoleon. the only problem you could have with this is the loss of a ground resist, but I think Zapdos can take care of that well enough

I just canceled the idea of the threat list, it takes to much time that I don't have. Now, Roserade has a Focus Sash, so Ice Beam won't OHKO unless I've taken damage. (Highly likely) Metagross just needs to break the sub for another Pokemon to kill it, same with Umbreon. I've toyed with the idea of adding Vaporeon, and that's a possibility, but I don't want to be a complete stall team. I'll have to try it out.

 

[Fear The Pika]

Bump. Please, anybody?

 

[iliketurkeybacon]

I think Stone Edge should be replaced on Heatran. Explosion could work well, as Heatran and three of your other Pokemon can't touch Blissey currently. If you really want to hit Salamence and Gyarados, AncientPower is a much better idea. It does a minimum of 40% to offensive Gyarados, and even more to Salamence. It also allows you to use a Timid nature and put all 252 EVs possible in Special Attack (you should do the latter even if you run Explosion).

 

[haunter]

Considering that Umbreon is the definite set up fodder for Lucario I think that you need a better counter for it than Zapdos. Being weak to SR doesn't help Zapdos' case and a +2 ES still does a considerable amount of damage, meaning that after 2 switch ins into SR it's a goner and so Lucario can proceed to sweep your team. I think that a Pokemon like Gliscor might help you more as a fighting type counter, try it:

Gliscor@leftovers
nature: jolly
EVs: 252 HP \ 40 Def \ 216 Spe
-earthquake
-stone edge
-taunt
-roost

Gliscor also helps with your massive DD Tar waekness, as currently only Metagross has a chance to stop it and it must be almost at full healt to avoid the KO from a +1 EQ.

To be honest though, I'd replace that Umbreon with something capable of stopping Gyarados, currently Gyarados can severely harm this team and then again only Metagross has a chance to stop it by exploding. If you want to try the wish support then I suggest to use a standard Vaporeon over Umbreon:

Vaporeon@leftovers
nature: bold
EVs: 188 HP \ 252 Def \ 68 Spe
-surf
-hidden power electric \ roar
-wish
-protect

Also, for the above reasons, I'd suggest to switch your Metagross item to a shuca berry since you won't be staying in on fire types anyway (especially if you implement Vaporeon), and with the shuca you'll be able to check some of the aforementioned threats and Salamence, especially DD Mence.

Also, change your EV spread on Heatran using: 4 Atk\252 SpA\252 Spe and use explosion over stone edge as this way you'll be able to take out Blissey, Snorlax and those annoying bulky waters like Vaporeon and Suicune.

I'm sure I'm missing something but start to test these changes.

 

[Fear The Pika]

Thanks for the advice, let's do this one at a time.

Iliketurkeybacon, I am going to switch SE for Explosion and put the rest of the EVs in SA.

Haunter, Gliscor isn't a bad idea at all, but what should I sub out for it? And Umbreon isn't a bad Gyarados counter at all, it normally beats the standard DD gyarados. Also, Umbreon provides physical attacking and a pokemon to use against Gengar. I'm still going to try it, but I do need some advice on what to take out for Gliscor.

 

[haunter]

I was thinking Gliscor over Zapdos. And no, actually Umbreon is a terrible Gyarados counter (especially with that nature\EV spread), taunt Gyara will easily set up on it and offensive variants will severely harm it if it switches in on the DD.

 

[Famine]

like if you have a AR...you can get the rotom forms bro...i can pm u the code man...

And you have no real way to handle infernape, or a heavy fire type that is coming at you. I rieally don't see the need for Zapdos "countering" scizor with heatran right there, and also Metagross both taking his main move pretty well. I personally think ZApdos should turn into a bulky water, Such as a Vaporeon with Wish which could really help your team improve....And also as the guy earlier said you have a massive gyarados weakness.


Personally i think Curse Umbreon needs to go, even though you mostly play on wifi, Umbreon is U-turn Bait/Set up bait for almost everything that's not getting one shot by payback. I feel like this pokemon has to go more than zapdos, but it could aslo easily be turned into a Salamence in my opinion...but that's just me.

idk f i was much help but i hope so man

 

[Setsuna]

Hi.

First question, what is Roserade doing for the team? is it really indispensable?
Seeing that you didn't remark anything special in Roserade's description, and either stated an specific reason for using it, I would suggest you to eliminate it of the team. Why? read those first questions in this paragraph.
A team that uses Roserade with Toxic Spikes is because in every match it will attempt to exploit them (i.e. sweeper/s, stall). But this is not the case, or that's the way I see it; anyhow, theoretically, you aren't taking advantage of TS.

That said, you have two options here: 1) find a place for a sweeper that takes benefit from TS. 2) Simply forget Roserade and fill that spot with someone else.

Without going further, I'll stay with the second option, and my suggestion will be to move Metagross to the lead position and make some minor changes in its set. Would be the same spread but instead of Explosion you can try Meteor Mash out in order to beat Azelf lead and hit Latias harder; and definitely replace Occa with a Lum Berry to equally destroy leads like Roserade and Smeargle.
Metagross is one of the best leads nowadays, so don't be shy on give it a chance.

Now that you have a free spot, and considering your current DD Gyarados and LO Heatran weakness, I want you to try Haunter's Vaporeon set. It defintely fills the cup.

Also, go with Gliscor in Zapdos' place, for the same reasons that Haunter stated above and for Umbreon's sake.

Good luck.

 

[Senzairu]

Umbreon takes about ~65% damage with +1 defense from CBScizor's U-turn. I really think it needs to go. Tyranitar can do the exact same thing but... well, better. It seems like you're wasting a team spot when you could put Skarmory there to add Spike support or Vaporeon for Wish support.

 

[Fear The Pika]

Ok.

People that say umbreon should go. I will try it, going to get a vaporeon soon.

Setsuna, I guess I didn't make it very clear. Both Umbreon and Zapdos benefit from TS. Zapdos for Sub-roost stalling, Umbreon for setting up curses, or Vaporeon for Toxic stalling.

Famine, I have no AR, I wouldn't say no Rotoms if I did.

Also, Senzairu, here's how the Scizor thing usually goes.

I send out Umbreon against X, X switches to Scizor while I get 1 curse. X uses U-turn, doesn't kill me. I use rest that same turn, then sleep talk the next.

It doesn't always work, but that's why I'm changing things around.

 

[Setsuna]

Ok.
Setsuna, I guess I didn't make it very clear. Both Umbreon and Zapdos benefit from TS. Zapdos for Sub-roost stalling, Umbreon for setting up curses, or Vaporeon for Toxic stalling.

With all due respect sir, Zapdos and Umbreon are both weak mons while talking about <Toxic Spikes profit>, because practically, you aren't sweeping with them; Curse Umbreon opens so many opportunities for other sweepers that that is why it's not so used. On the other hand, Zapdos will only "attempt" to reduce the opponent's lines, but even in front of Blissey it can be severely damaged with Toxic for example. In my opinion, TS can be used in a better way.

 

[Fear The Pika]

With all due respect sir, Zapdos and Umbreon are both weak mons while talking about <Toxic Spikes profit>, because practically, you aren't sweeping with them; Curse Umbreon opens so many opportunities for other sweepers that that is why it's not so used. On the other hand, Zapdos will only "attempt" to reduce the opponent's lines, but even in front of Blissey it can be severely damaged with Toxic for example. In my opinion, TS can be used in a better way.

Zapdos sets up a sub, therefor eliminating any chance of Toxic, and can repeatedly do it with correct prediction. And anyways, Zapdos and umbreon are both going for testing, so don't worry about it.

 

[george182]

I looked at your team and though torment tran would be amzing, as it loves toxic spikes, wish support, taunt support and trick support. You loose your awesome gimmcik stone edge idea, the only problem is that gyra and mence both have intimidate, so hp rock would do more damagde, and dragon pulse OHKO's salamence. But torment tran would be amazing, if you don't know how torment tran works, look up the smogon set, very effective with the right support, and you have the right support.

Scarfed latias can reveng kill mence, gyrados, weavile and infernape, all of which you seem parnoid about. Timid latias can outspeed all infernapes, and solves your ape problem.

Gliscor, can have stealh rocks over stone edge, then metagross can switch to a CB metagross with some major power, and an explosion that KO's anthing bar skarm, forretress and ghosts.

Good choice getting rid of umbreon, main prblem with umbreon is that it is set up fodder for the best sweeper in the entire game, lucario, as lucario outspeeds your heatran and SR takes it tole on xapdos, as at half health she is OHKOed. But they are both gone, you have a better lucario counter and vaporeon.

And just a presenttation thing, if you make umbreon and vapreon (on the at a glance thing) next to each other, just to make it clear that vapreoon tooks umbreons place and gliscor took zapdos', to avoid confusion for who is new, and who is old, also makes it nicer to view (Just move both to the very end)

Hope i helped

 

[Lightsabre]

a quick heads up FtP, you might want to write in the discriptions for Vappy and Gliscor. just so you're not breaking any rules. other than that, I agree that a revenge killer in the form of Scarf Latias with Trick>recover would be good. the only problem is that it becomes easy for TTar/Scizor to come in after it's used Dpulse and pursuit you to death. you're choice, but you need something for clean ups. I almost want to suggest that you switch Heatran for a RestTalk Heatran. Tran has some good defenses, and you need another status absorber now that Umbreon is off the team

 

[Fear The Pika]

a quick heads up FtP, you might want to write in the discriptions for Vappy and Gliscor. just so you're not breaking any rules. other than that, I agree that a revenge killer in the form of Scarf Latias with Trick>recover would be good. the only problem is that it becomes easy for TTar/Scizor to come in after it's used Dpulse and pursuit you to death. you're choice, but you need something for clean ups. I almost want to suggest that you switch Heatran for a RestTalk Heatran. Tran has some good defenses, and you need another status absorber now that Umbreon is off the team

I haven't tested them yet, so I'm not exactly sure how well they do, guess I'll just put Zapdos and Umbreon back up there for now until I get a Gliscor.