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New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread - UU Edition
- Thread starter Lee
- Start date
That's why i use Focus Blast over Cross Chop. It allows you to use HP Ice to cover Altaria while having a strong attack against Quagsire(unlikely to survive a Fire Blast + Focus Blast) while dealing lots of damage to Gastrodon. And it OHKO Rhyperior.
Cross Chop is only for Chansey, really. I prefer to use a much stronger attack to cover some bulky pokes.
I just use something else to deal with Chansey.
Cross Chop is only for Chansey, really. I prefer to use a much stronger attack to cover some bulky pokes.
I just use something else to deal with Chansey.
Focus blast is an okay option, but that accuracy is just killer to Magmortar, as he cannot afford to miss a move against something that could OHKO him back. Cross chop does a solid 64-75% to chansey, which means fire blast+SR(Maybe even without SR, but it helps)= a sure kill. Focus blast is just too shaky of a move to use on magmortar, let alone any pokemon, without gravity support. That's probably just my overall personal opinion, but I hate moves as unreliable as that.
LO Magmortar should use FireBlast-HpGrass-Thunderbolt-Filler. The filler can be Mach Punch or Cross Chop. I've seen 16 Atk Evd Mach Punch do 50%+ to Chansey... Cross Chop should OHKO. Focus Blast shouldn't even be considered an option.
Two sets...
Flareon@ LO
+Spa -Def Nature
EVs: 252 Atk 176 Spe 80 Satk or 80 Atk 176 Spe 252 Satk
Body Slam
Lava Plume
Superpower
HP Grass
Mixed Set that is meant to damage as well as be a status platform. Works well as a lead. Flareon has a respectable SpD stat so you can expect it to take a Special attack or two if needed. Calm Minders are the devil to this set. Evs out run 4spe Cressalia I believe.
Tangela Lead @ Focus Sash (Not Tangrowth)
Modest
252/252 Speed+Special Attack (0 SpD IV)
SolarBeam/Energy Ball
Endeavor
Sunny Day
Sleep Powder
Premise of this set is simple...
Turn 1: Sunny Day. Sunny Day will double your speed allowing you to outspeed a majority of threats thanks to Chlorophyl. Most Special attacks will break your Sash and and most phsyical attacks will not come close to OHKO (barring Flare Blitz, use Endeavor turn 1 for Arcanine). Lead with Sleep Powder against Uxie.
Turn 2: Sleep Powder. Incapacitate 1 Pokemon likely forcing a switch.
Turn 3: Endeavor
Yup, its a cool set. However, when I've tested it I seemed to have a lot of hax going my way. 5 matches 3 Freezes (Froslass), consecutive missed Sleep Powders, and a bunch of other B/S. Nevertheless, it was a fun set to use.
Two sets...
Flareon@ LO
+Spa -Def Nature
EVs: 252 Atk 176 Spe 80 Satk or 80 Atk 176 Spe 252 Satk
Body Slam
Lava Plume
Superpower
HP Grass
Mixed Set that is meant to damage as well as be a status platform. Works well as a lead. Flareon has a respectable SpD stat so you can expect it to take a Special attack or two if needed. Calm Minders are the devil to this set. Evs out run 4spe Cressalia I believe.
Tangela Lead @ Focus Sash (Not Tangrowth)
Modest
252/252 Speed+Special Attack (0 SpD IV)
SolarBeam/Energy Ball
Endeavor
Sunny Day
Sleep Powder
Premise of this set is simple...
Turn 1: Sunny Day. Sunny Day will double your speed allowing you to outspeed a majority of threats thanks to Chlorophyl. Most Special attacks will break your Sash and and most phsyical attacks will not come close to OHKO (barring Flare Blitz, use Endeavor turn 1 for Arcanine). Lead with Sleep Powder against Uxie.
Turn 2: Sleep Powder. Incapacitate 1 Pokemon likely forcing a switch.
Turn 3: Endeavor
Yup, its a cool set. However, when I've tested it I seemed to have a lot of hax going my way. 5 matches 3 Freezes (Froslass), consecutive missed Sleep Powders, and a bunch of other B/S. Nevertheless, it was a fun set to use.
Nice lead. I'm working on a sunny day team, and I've found fast taunt leads, such as Froslass to be a problem. to take care of that threat I used a fast taunt lead of my own. I also found it helpful (In a worst-case scenario) to use my lead to only prevent the opposing lead from setting up. For example, if I realize I can set up sunny day, but my opponent will set up SR or spikes or something, I can make my primary objective to force the opponent to switch, and use a backup to set up sunny day if neccessary. Theres a better explanation in my thread if you want to check it out. (The link is in my sig.)
Ambipom can also prevent sunny day with fakeout, then use a faster return to KO. This could be prevented by using protect first turn, but then you would have to get rid of another move (Perhaps endeavor?) It depends on what you think is most important, because you're not going to be able to win in every situation.
'You've seen', doesn't add up to what actually happens. Mach Punch from Life Orb 16 Attack EV Magmortar rolls 24.6% - 29% against 0 HP/252 Def Calm Chansey, which is the standard. If someone doesn't run any Defense, and goes for 252 HP (lol), then it does 53.1% - 62.8%. Unless you're playing a really horrible opponent, Mach Punch doesn't cut it. On the other hand, Cross Chop against 0 HP/252 Def Chansey does 61.5% - 72.4%.
Mild 252 SpAtt Fire Blast does 29.5% - 34.8% (26.8% - 31.8% with Naive) to 0 HP/252 SpDef Calm Chansey, which means if it switches into Fire Blast, it has a good chance to finish it with Cross Chop if Stealth Rocks are in play. If Chansey runs Bold nature, it will never be OHKO by Fire Blast+Cross Chop without Stealth Rocks, and if it carries Protect you won't be able to with them either. You're right about Focus Blast being useless.
No Sleeping move but sing, which is far too unreliable. I also don't see Tangela leads working; it's the kind of poké you add to your team that acts like "So, this guy thinks I'm completely crazy for using Tangela, thus I'll get him", but once the opponent knows what it does, he won't fall for that trick. Added to that, it fails to beat many leads anyway, relies on not getting taunted and does absolutely nothing when your opponent starts the match with frossy, as Tangela can't do a thing to fight back and will have its sash broken the next time it comes in.
I wasnt really thinking about Sing. More endeavour straight away, if they activate your focus sash, sucker punch on the next move. Otherwise they will be down to really low health anyways so switch out to something with a priority to kill them.
If your kanga stays on full hp, keep SR off the field and it can repeat its performance.
The only things that stop this lead are sleep leads and substitute leads.
If your kanga stays on full hp, keep SR off the field and it can repeat its performance.
The only things that stop this lead are sleep leads and substitute leads.
And leads with prority (especially Ambipom, who comes out unscathed and happens to be the most used lead), and Ghost types (Frossy), and leads with Leftovers (insert many pokés here), and leads with status, etc etc...
Best case scenario : you'll be trading one of your pokés to bring the opponent's one to really low health and allow it to setup any kind of hazards; as it's just too optimistic to believe your opponent doesn't know Kangaskhan has access to Sucker Punch.
protect on the moveset for ambipom. ambipom is the best poke this set can face
Kanga has scrappy so endeavour hits ghosts
status is fine as long it is not sleep, you dont need to activate focus sash to cripple them, you still get them on about 20 hp, even with leftovers they wont be on 10% health making them easy pickings.
Taking down a poke to really low hp? Isnt that the point of this game?
It still does more than the tangela that i flipantly suggested it against.
Kanga has scrappy so endeavour hits ghosts
status is fine as long it is not sleep, you dont need to activate focus sash to cripple them, you still get them on about 20 hp, even with leftovers they wont be on 10% health making them easy pickings.
Taking down a poke to really low hp? Isnt that the point of this game?
It still does more than the tangela that i flipantly suggested it against.
If you're looking for Endeavour -> Priority, Piloswine is probably your best bet. Nothing is immune to ice. Something simple like Protect/Endeavour/Ice Shard/Stealth Rock.
I did neglect Endeavor, that's my mistake.
Status on the second turn, expecting a Sucker Punch, not on the first.
Some pokés really don't mind being at low health, as they have ways of recovering health (Moltres, who can Roost and put you on a mindgame in which you'll have to predict perfectly to take it down), others will be more than happy setting up rocks and trading 1 for 1 poké, as any poké with Leftovers will have a free turn after being hit by Endeavor, forcing you to switch out, unless you go like this : Endeavor-Toxic-Sucker Punch, which gives your opponent 2 turns to setup hazards to take it down.
Existing so much discussion about what is the best lead, Kangaskhan sounds even less viable when you think about the top 10.
Ambipom: Theoretically it beats it, as long as your opponent doesn't switch out.
Froslass: Can't beat neither. Bulky has Lefties and can setup spikes, while Sash got DBond for any poké that might try to take advantage of that and can setup spikes. All in all the best situation here is: you survive with 1 HP Kanga and your opponent gets one layer of spikes up. Considering Kanga is dead wight from there, Frossy performed her role perfectly (that is if you have toxic, as you mentioned no 4th attack).
Uxie: Sets up rocks and brings it to 1 HP.
Moltres: Mindgames, in which Moltres is likely to succeed.
Alakazam: Same as Ambipom.
Arcanine: Kanga loses. I have no idea what's standart now, but if it has Morning Sun there it's even worse for Kanga.
Spiritomb: Prediction war of wheter you'll Sucker Punch or Toxic.
Cloyster: Loses to Sash/LO due to Ice Shard and is fodder for Lefties.
Snover: Can't touch that if Snover has protect. If it doesn't Snover still wins, but will be crippled.
Electrode: Sets up rain and brings it to 1 HP.
It may be better than Tangela, but that doesn't make it viable at all.
You are right, the reason i dont use it is because it is not generally useful enough, it can only combat afew threats. like low lvl cleffa/clefairy/clefable. Piloswine is probably the most useful.
Like them (except Pilo)i wouldnt necessarily suggest it as a lead.
Don't get me wrong, i am not suggesting this as a new and creative set, hence why i only mentionned it in passing.
My only suggestion was that if he wants to use that tangela; those three are better options.
Like them (except Pilo)i wouldnt necessarily suggest it as a lead.
Don't get me wrong, i am not suggesting this as a new and creative set, hence why i only mentionned it in passing.
My only suggestion was that if he wants to use that tangela; those three are better options.
Pokemon Name: Cacturne
Moveset Name: SubSeedPlot
Move 1: Nasty Plot
Move 2: Substitute
Move 3: Dark Pulse
Move 4: Leech Seed
Item: Brightpowder/Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
Nature(s): Modest
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
With Cresselia now in UU people are scrambling to find a viable counter that can function well outside of taking Cresselia down. Thos is what I have come up with. It loses effectiveness when not used in Sandstorm which is a bit of a bummer but when in Sandstorm it has been able to sweep and subseed depending on what I require of it. I was unsure about how well it could take down Cresselia but I haven't been dissapointed. It works by Subing until the opponent misses and can take a resisted hit even with its flimsy defences so it can usually set a sub up. Mine has survived a +1 Raikou T-Bolt with enough HP to set up a sub and survive long enough to set up. It can take neutral hits though. I ran the damage through the calculator and it has a possible OHKO on every one of the sets after a single Nasty Plot factoring in Sandstorm. If cresselia has taken Stealth Rock damage it will be a definate OHKO on EVERY one of the Cresselia sets. If Cresselia Switches into Cacturne then it is gone no matter what so long as Cacturne has one Nasty Plot under its belt. The extra turn of damage from Sanstorm means a possible OHKO on Max HP Max SpD Cresselia which noone runs anyway.
Outside of taking on Cresselia it still shines. It can SubSeed and catch the opponent unawares when it Nasty Plots on the switch to their Grass poke thinking it will Leech Seed. From there it can Nasty plot again when they while they break the Sub and then procede to either sub again and sweep from low health behind the sub or just go crazy and Take out as much as possible before its paper defenences cause it to lose. The big factor is that with the brightpowder and Sand Veil the opponent should miss one out of every four moves which helps it survive. I'm not sure how well this set works outside of Sandstorm though. Cacturne is also immune to the damage from Sandstorm while not being any of the three usual types and as such can usually find an opponent to come in on when used in a sandstorm team.
Moveset Name: SubSeedPlot
Move 1: Nasty Plot
Move 2: Substitute
Move 3: Dark Pulse
Move 4: Leech Seed
Item: Brightpowder/Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
Nature(s): Modest
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
With Cresselia now in UU people are scrambling to find a viable counter that can function well outside of taking Cresselia down. Thos is what I have come up with. It loses effectiveness when not used in Sandstorm which is a bit of a bummer but when in Sandstorm it has been able to sweep and subseed depending on what I require of it. I was unsure about how well it could take down Cresselia but I haven't been dissapointed. It works by Subing until the opponent misses and can take a resisted hit even with its flimsy defences so it can usually set a sub up. Mine has survived a +1 Raikou T-Bolt with enough HP to set up a sub and survive long enough to set up. It can take neutral hits though. I ran the damage through the calculator and it has a possible OHKO on every one of the sets after a single Nasty Plot factoring in Sandstorm. If cresselia has taken Stealth Rock damage it will be a definate OHKO on EVERY one of the Cresselia sets. If Cresselia Switches into Cacturne then it is gone no matter what so long as Cacturne has one Nasty Plot under its belt. The extra turn of damage from Sanstorm means a possible OHKO on Max HP Max SpD Cresselia which noone runs anyway.
Outside of taking on Cresselia it still shines. It can SubSeed and catch the opponent unawares when it Nasty Plots on the switch to their Grass poke thinking it will Leech Seed. From there it can Nasty plot again when they while they break the Sub and then procede to either sub again and sweep from low health behind the sub or just go crazy and Take out as much as possible before its paper defenences cause it to lose. The big factor is that with the brightpowder and Sand Veil the opponent should miss one out of every four moves which helps it survive. I'm not sure how well this set works outside of Sandstorm though. Cacturne is also immune to the damage from Sandstorm while not being any of the three usual types and as such can usually find an opponent to come in on when used in a sandstorm team.
Wow, i actually thought alot about using a very similar set to that. Not just to answer cress but to stand on its own.
I decided it didnt work.
I doesnt have enough speed to be an effective subseed.
its tough to get a nasty plot when they are breaking your subs so easily.
one attack means that dark types like hitmontop will easily beat you.
It cant even safely switch into cress as it fears ice beam and Twave. Being slower than cress, they get two chances for it to hit.
I decided it didnt work.
I doesnt have enough speed to be an effective subseed.
its tough to get a nasty plot when they are breaking your subs so easily.
one attack means that dark types like hitmontop will easily beat you.
It cant even safely switch into cress as it fears ice beam and Twave. Being slower than cress, they get two chances for it to hit.
I usually try to save it for mid game. I have a normal type lead to draw out the fighting pokes early so it has little to fear and I try not to put it in play until one of my pokes has been KOed. I admit that it can be difficult to get in but once it is set up it is usually assured of a couple of KOs.
In a different it may not work as well but I just thought that it would be good to add another option to deal with Cresselia.
In a different it may not work as well but I just thought that it would be good to add another option to deal with Cresselia.
Now, some of you might know that I'm from a forum that encourages the use of UU Pokemon in OU, and also encourages making original sets whenever posible. While some sets are completely new (and haven't really had any proper testing so they don't work as well as the theorymonning suggests), some are simply subtle adjustments of Smogon sets. One of these sets, which, coincidentally, 3 of us came up with more or less at the same time (and indepentently too!) is a mixture between two Clefable sets, and has proven to be reliable enough for OU usage. If you've seen any of my recent videos, you'll know this set. So, I present... The ONM Clefable!
ONM Clefable
Calm/Adamant Nature (personally I run a bulky version, but an offensive version can work too)
252HP/252atk/4sp.def (offense), 252hp/252sp.def/4atk (bulk)
@Toxic Orb (the key to this set)
Magic Guard (for obvious reasons)
-Protect
-Softboiled
-Trick
-Facade
Now, I know what you're thinking. 'It's just a Toxic Orb Clefable with Trick!' But it works. OK, so ghosts can come in and wall it, especially Gengar (because it can't be poisoned), but this set deals with one of the most annoying special attackers in OU: Latias. Come in on an attack, or as revenge, Protect (to activate toxic orb to aviod status), trick the Toxic orb and get a free item! Even if you end up getting Choice Specs, it's not all bad news, because you can come in later on and trick something else!
It can work well as a lead, or just as a general special wall. Personally I use it as my wall, but one of the other guys uses it as his lead, and it's just as effective.
ONM Clefable
Calm/Adamant Nature (personally I run a bulky version, but an offensive version can work too)
252HP/252atk/4sp.def (offense), 252hp/252sp.def/4atk (bulk)
@Toxic Orb (the key to this set)
Magic Guard (for obvious reasons)
-Protect
-Softboiled
-Trick
-Facade
Now, I know what you're thinking. 'It's just a Toxic Orb Clefable with Trick!' But it works. OK, so ghosts can come in and wall it, especially Gengar (because it can't be poisoned), but this set deals with one of the most annoying special attackers in OU: Latias. Come in on an attack, or as revenge, Protect (to activate toxic orb to aviod status), trick the Toxic orb and get a free item! Even if you end up getting Choice Specs, it's not all bad news, because you can come in later on and trick something else!
It can work well as a lead, or just as a general special wall. Personally I use it as my wall, but one of the other guys uses it as his lead, and it's just as effective.
Gazooki I just want to take the time to say I really like your avatar.
On the offensive version, rather than Protect (which seems kinda needless tbh) you could go with either Meteor Mash or any elemental punch to hit Ghosts with. I think this set would work much better if there was a way to abuse Clefable's higher SpA, but alas it's not possible.
On the offensive version, rather than Protect (which seems kinda needless tbh) you could go with either Meteor Mash or any elemental punch to hit Ghosts with. I think this set would work much better if there was a way to abuse Clefable's higher SpA, but alas it's not possible.
Now, some of you might know that I'm from a forum that encourages the use of UU Pokemon in OU, and also encourages making original sets whenever posible. While some sets are completely new (and haven't really had any proper testing so they don't work as well as the theorymonning suggests), some are simply subtle adjustments of Smogon sets. One of these sets, which, coincidentally, 3 of us came up with more or less at the same time (and indepentently too!) is a mixture between two Clefable sets, and has proven to be reliable enough for OU usage. If you've seen any of my recent videos, you'll know this set. So, I present... The ONM Clefable!
ONM Clefable
Calm/Adamant Nature (personally I run a bulky version, but an offensive version can work too)
252HP/252atk/4sp.def (offense), 252hp/252sp.def/4atk (bulk)
@Toxic Orb (the key to this set)
Magic Guard (for obvious reasons)
-Protect
-Softboiled
-Trick
-Facade
Now, I know what you're thinking. 'It's just a Toxic Orb Clefable with Trick!' But it works. OK, so ghosts can come in and wall it, especially Gengar (because it can't be poisoned), but this set deals with one of the most annoying special attackers in OU: Latias. Come in on an attack, or as revenge, Protect (to activate toxic orb to aviod status), trick the Toxic orb and get a free item! Even if you end up getting Choice Specs, it's not all bad news, because you can come in later on and trick something else!
It can work well as a lead, or just as a general special wall. Personally I use it as my wall, but one of the other guys uses it as his lead, and it's just as effective.
If I'm using Clefable in OU, I really prefer coverage, or spreading status to a risky Trick. Being walled by all Steels isn't a pleasant feeling, and you make switching into Latias sound too easy. Yes, Clefable can Trick Toxic Orb like no other, but I don't think the set warrants much use in OU.
Basically the same set could be run with a flame orb which would probably have better results in OU since clefable frequently draws in physical attackers that will either set up or scare it off. I'd also argue that Toxic over Protect is a better idea so that you can still cripple setup pokemon that switch in after tricking away your flame orb.
In UU the bulkier toxic orb set would work great on most things, it's not like people will switch in a UU steel in on a clefable anyway until they know what set it has.
In UU the bulkier toxic orb set would work great on most things, it's not like people will switch in a UU steel in on a clefable anyway until they know what set it has.
Total theorymon.
Parasect. This may require trick room support but not necessarily on a trick room team. The thing that distinguishes it from other trick room sweeps is resistance to common priority (fighting/water), that spore is the best move in the game and that grass/bug attacking combination hits supereffective on most UUs top physical walls. Steelix, registeel and aggron are notable exceptions. Though only registeel resists the combination.
Parasect @ life orb
Dry Skin/Effect Spore
Adamant
252HP,252Att,4Def
-Spore
-Swords Dance
-X-Scissor
-Seed Bomb
Dry Skin helps Parasect switch in, if you are using Trick room (for example TR,Explode Claydol) you may not need to swithc in and effect spore is useful to do even more to the opposition.
EVs in HP so it can take a hit, literally a single hit. Max attack, can use - speed nature in TR.
It plays like this. Turn 1:Spore. Turn 2: SD on switch. Turn 3: hit as hard as you can (this is your last turn of TR if you are using it).
If you are not using TR, its ok. This thing has excellent synergy with Arcanine. Flash fire enjoys the fire attacks aimed at the x8 weak parasect (due to dry skin). Dry skin gives parasect a chance to come in on aqua jet aimed at Arcanine from CB Azumarill. Parasect also has a x4 ground resist to come in on (which helps arcanine) but i wouldnt use it on much more than maybe a claydol Earth Power. If using Arcanine/Parasect, the common rock weakness (SR weakness) means you may want a spinner. Hitmontop or Donphan, for example.
After 1 SD.
Milotic (Bold 252/252 Def) min 127.9%
Cresselia (Bold 252/252 Def) 85.6% - 101.4%
Slowbro (Bold 252/252 Def) min 102.5%
Regirock (Bold 252/252 Def) 70.9% - 84.1%
Venusaur (Bold 252/252 Def) 67% - 79.1%
Steelix (Calm 252/0 Def) 45.8% - 54.2%
So what do you think about that?
Parasect. This may require trick room support but not necessarily on a trick room team. The thing that distinguishes it from other trick room sweeps is resistance to common priority (fighting/water), that spore is the best move in the game and that grass/bug attacking combination hits supereffective on most UUs top physical walls. Steelix, registeel and aggron are notable exceptions. Though only registeel resists the combination.
Parasect @ life orb
Dry Skin/Effect Spore
Adamant
252HP,252Att,4Def
-Spore
-Swords Dance
-X-Scissor
-Seed Bomb
Dry Skin helps Parasect switch in, if you are using Trick room (for example TR,Explode Claydol) you may not need to swithc in and effect spore is useful to do even more to the opposition.
EVs in HP so it can take a hit, literally a single hit. Max attack, can use - speed nature in TR.
It plays like this. Turn 1:Spore. Turn 2: SD on switch. Turn 3: hit as hard as you can (this is your last turn of TR if you are using it).
If you are not using TR, its ok. This thing has excellent synergy with Arcanine. Flash fire enjoys the fire attacks aimed at the x8 weak parasect (due to dry skin). Dry skin gives parasect a chance to come in on aqua jet aimed at Arcanine from CB Azumarill. Parasect also has a x4 ground resist to come in on (which helps arcanine) but i wouldnt use it on much more than maybe a claydol Earth Power. If using Arcanine/Parasect, the common rock weakness (SR weakness) means you may want a spinner. Hitmontop or Donphan, for example.
After 1 SD.
Milotic (Bold 252/252 Def) min 127.9%
Cresselia (Bold 252/252 Def) 85.6% - 101.4%
Slowbro (Bold 252/252 Def) min 102.5%
Regirock (Bold 252/252 Def) 70.9% - 84.1%
Venusaur (Bold 252/252 Def) 67% - 79.1%
Steelix (Calm 252/0 Def) 45.8% - 54.2%
So what do you think about that?
I don't know if you know this but...