The Sea and the Storm [OU RMT]

[AlphaBravo]

I noticed that my old Scizor and Luke teams are not the strongest, and aimed for a change.

So, I started a new team, and based it on a Pokemon I always was hard to counter for me - the legendary CroCune.

TEAM BUILDING PROCESS
What a Suicune team is without a CroCune?

Well, CroCune. It has problems with Blissey, so I need Toxic Spikes. I run over the list of spikers, and choose Tentacruel

Also, I need a Steel Pokemon to take Dragon Attacks. Wishpasser/Parahax Jirachi is good for this role

Now, I need a lead. Because Jirachi wishpasses, its better be a bulky lead - like Explosionless Lum Metagross.

Fine. But I still need a Luke check, a Mence check and a Spinblocker. The former and the latter can be Scarf Rotom-H

Well, I still need a Dragon. (S)He may be our Mence Check too. GOGO Scarf Latias

Playtesting... looks like Latias is too vulnerable to Pursuit and Scizor+Mence rocks me. Looks like I'm swapping Latias for MY OWN Scizor.

Playtesting... I got a ground weak and lack both a dragon and a hard hitter. Only 1 (Yes, maybe 2, but Mence is not bulky enough) pokemon fits this - Latias. I found that Jirachi is my LVP and swapped it for LO Latias.

Due in-thread help decided to switch Meta->Swampert and Tenta->Forry

Playesting... But it didn't work well, so I reverted to my old team again

THE SEA AND THE STORM

--- All pictures up to this point from Serebii. From this point they are from Bulbapedia ---

The Lead and Iron Puncher

Box in a Box (Metagross) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP/232 Atk/24 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch
- Stealth Rock

[One of] The best lead in the game, Metagross comes in a Explosion-less set. I cloud've provided the standard lead matrix, but you all know him as a lead - except for the Lum and the fact he survives. The Lum Berry allows me to defeat sleeper leads and helps me during prediction errors/misclicks (like forgetting him on a Rotom, or, similarly, thinking the Rotom's in BP KO Range while it's not). Also, he tends to survive into mid/late-game, punching huge bulletholes in the enemy (with MM too) and taking hits.

Always Cool (Tentacruel) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP/120 Def/136 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Surf
- Sludge Bomb

A Tentacruel makes for the best T-Spiker in the game. Because the T-Spikes are almost required for a 'cune sweep, I am using Tentacruel. Strategy is simple - come on a Blissey, Heatran, or other weak/resisted attackers. Toxic Spikes, Toxic Spikes (Rapid Spin if needed).

Steel Wing 12 (Scizor) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP/248 Atk/12 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Pursuit

Steel Wing 12 ready to go - Sometimes a Scizor is just a Scizor (While sometimes he's a Sword Dancing Sweeper). My Mence check and general Scizor. Do I need to post what a CB Scizor does - he takes resisted attacks U-Turning and Bullet Punching the enemy. Naturally, Superpower is for steels and Pursuit is for Latias (and ghosts too, but mostly Latias).

Foes are Toast (Rotom-h) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Trick

When Luke and spinners are common, this is the Pok'emon I need to counter them. Outspeeds DD Gyarados and SD Lucario and OHKOs both with Thunderbolt/Overheat. Trick is a pesticide, a good way to remove a annoying pokemon from the game. He's also one of my 2 Levitators and my typical Flygon s/in.

Killer Angel (Latias) (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Recover

GO GO LATIAS! The fastest, deadliest OU Dragon (yes IMO Latias > Mence). If you are not a Steel (or a fat egg), you have no business switching on Draco Meteor (and even if you are, be ready to lose 40% HP). And if you are, Surf (typically) 3HKOs you. I choose this kind of Latias because I lacked a hard hitter, and Recover is too important to give up on a bulky LO Pokemon. Since her introduction, she was the MVP of my team killing enemies left and right. If my enemy lacks T-Tar, he can Prepare to Die (tm) unless he catches her on a Pursuit, as Draco Meteor hits SO HARD.

Calm Seas (Suicune) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Surf
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

The supposed MVP of my team (Latias is the real one, so this is only the 2VP), Suicune is one of the deadliest Pok'emon EVER. 404/361 Physical Defense allows it to take many Physical hits while Calm Minding (A 256 special defense boosted by Calm Mind is also something), and a +6 Surf is deadly (no, DEADLY). Many teams are unprepared for this beast, Exploding their Heatrans (which only deals 60% damage unless I switch to Rotom) on its Rest allowing their teams to be cleanly swept. The required Toxic Spikes allows me to deal with pests like Vaporeon and Blissey, breaking the opposition.

Currently I am at 1300, both because I lack perfect prediction and because of my SD Scizor (really, this thing is a beast) and Rotom-A weaknesses.

 

[Little Battler]

wait a minute
I played against this team earlier today (might be yesterday due to time zones) if I'm not mistaken
A beast it is, although I was on my alt (lazermania) using my beta Heavy Offense team.
And I think I misclicked SDluke to switch on rotom.

And worst of all... I have already forgotten about what happened in the battle, except that the bulky suicune won the match... should've CCed with that gallade back there.

back to topic, this team is already great, but tentacool is too fragile. Fancy trying a new spinner?

 

[AlphaBravo]

wait a minute
I played against this team earlier today (might be yesterday due to time zones) if I'm not mistaken
A beast it is, although I was on my alt (lazermania) using my beta Heavy Offense team.
And I think I misclicked SDluke to switch on rotom.

And worst of all... I have already forgotten about what happened in the battle, except that the bulky suicune won the match... should've CCed with that gallade back there.

back to topic, this team is already great, but tentacool is too fragile. Fancy trying a new spinner?

Yes you battled against me. No Crocune didn't win this, it was Rotom (you switched your Luke that can't affect him instead of your Gallade on him, and Rotom 2HKOed your Gallade on the switch). You didn't see Crocune. I just told you that my last Pok'emon is him.

For the "trying a new spinner", can you suggest a one?

 

[Little Battler]

Yes you battled against me. No Crocune didn't win this, it was Rotom (you switched your Luke that can't affect him instead of your Gallade on him, and Rotom 2HKOed your Gallade on the switch). You didn't see Crocune. I just told you that my last Pok'emon is him.

For the "trying a new spinner", can you suggest a one?

erhm...
to be honest, I can only think of forretress, or maybe a starmie?
Now I feel stupid for opening my big mouth =.="

 

[Abutorn]

erhm...
to be honest, I can only think of forretress, or maybe a starmie?
Now I feel stupid for opening my big mouth =.="

Your best bet is to try starmie.

Maybe make it a offensive starmie with
6 HP/ 252 Speed/ 252 Sp.attack Timid nature
Surf
Rapid spin
Thunderbolt
Ice beam

 

[Bloo]

Your Rotom-H picture was insanely big, so I edited it out as it stretched the entire page. Feel free to find a smaller one to use.

 

[-FUCK-]

Your best bet is to try starmie.

Maybe make it a offensive starmie with
6 HP/ 252 Speed/ 252 Sp.attack Timid nature
Surf
Rapid spin
Thunderbolt
Ice beam

+1

Starmie is easily one of the best spinners, if you give it hydro pump over surf then you can 2HKO one of the standard spin blockers, Rotom-A. Hit them on the switch in, then 1 more for the KO before they touch you, unfortunaly that won't work with the scarfers though.

 

[AlphaBravo]

--do-not-delete

Did you forgot I need Toxic Spikes?

 

[symphonyx64]

--do-not-delete

Did you forgot I need Toxic Spikes?

For some odd reason, my post got deleted earlier.

Anyways, if you are seeking an alternative spinner while retaining Toxic Spikes, Forretress is a viable alternative. With its natural physical bulk, Forretress has no problems coming in on top-tier physical threats such as Scizor and Metagross while setting up Toxic Spikes or blowing away the opposition's entry hazard swith impunity. If it packs Earthquake, Forretress can serve as a quick answer to physical variants of Lucario, especially Swords Dance Lucario. With Payback, Ghosts are hurt badly, specifically Gengar and non-defensive variants of the Rotom Applicanes.

 

[AlphaBravo]

For some odd reason, my post got deleted earlier.

Anyways, if you are seeking an alternative spinner while retaining Toxic Spikes, Forretress is a viable alternative. With its natural physical bulk, Forretress has no problems coming in on top-tier physical threats such as Scizor and Metagross while setting up Toxic Spikes or blowing away the opposition's entry hazard swith impunity. If it packs Earthquake, Forretress can serve as a quick answer to physical variants of Lucario, especially Swords Dance Lucario. With Payback, Ghosts are hurt badly, specifically Gengar and non-defensive variants of the Rotom Applicanes.

But it will give me a Fire weakness if I am not switching 'Cune earlier then necessary.

 

[hobo bob]

But it will give me a Fire weakness if I am not switching 'Cune earlier then necessary.

Latias can come in on fire attacks

 

[AlphaBravo]

Latias can come in on fire attacks

But that's too vulnerable - Latias is Pursuit-weak, uses a LO, and is too valuable to be exploded on.

 

[Sheshi]

Just a quick note, latias should have a Choice Specs imo. If you do do this, then use Trick over Recover.

 

[Nonary Game]

Choice Specs Latias is a waste of a Pokemon

Care to elaborate?

Either way, in terms of a rapid spinner that sets Toxic Spikes, your only other viable option is Forretress, albeit at a cost of having a slightly more difficult time with Infernape outside of a lead position. Although Suicune and Latias handle him just fine.

 

[Falconator]

Choice Specs Latias is a waste of a Pokemon

Not really. Throw Latias out against something it is good against and use Trick on the switch. You'd be surprised how close to useless a Specs Scizor is. :P But for this set, I think a LO on Latias is better. You already have a Trick Pokemon on your team with Rotom-H, and it Tricks the same item.


I agree with the Forretress suggestion. If a Fire type comes out, you can switch to Suicune to absorb the hit, and CM while the opponent likely switches out.

Go with the standard Physical wall spread. Lefties, Relaxed, 252 HP, 112 Attack, 144 Defense.

Toxic Spikes
Rapid Spin
Earthquake
Payback

T-Spikes are there for obvious reasons. Rapid Spin rids your team of any hazards. Earthquake makes Lucario, Infernape, Magnezone and Heatran switch-ins pay. Ghosts, especially Gengar packing HP Fire, come in expecting to soak up an Explosion or to OHKO if Forretress lays out a hazard, only to be met with Payback. This guy would be an excellent asset to your team if you play him right and predict well.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Not really. Throw Latias out against something it is good against and use Trick on the switch. You'd be surprised how close to useless a Specs Scizor is. :P But for this set, I think a LO on Latias is better. You already have a Trick Pokemon on your team with Rotom-H, and it Tricks the same item.


I agree with the Forretress suggestion. If a Fire type comes out, you can switch to Suicune to absorb the hit, and CM while the opponent likely switches out.

Go with the standard Physical wall spread. Lefties, Relaxed, 252 HP, 112 Attack, 144 Defense.

Toxic Spikes
Rapid Spin
Earthquake
Payback

T-Spikes are there for obvious reasons. Rapid Spin rids your team of any hazards. Earthquake makes Lucario, Infernape, Magnezone and Heatran switch-ins pay. Ghosts, especially Gengar packing HP Fire, come in expecting to soak up an Explosion or to OHKO if Forretress lays out a hazard, only to be met with Payback. This guy would be an excellent asset to your team if you play him right and predict well.

If I swap Tenta->Forretress, will Meta->Empoleon be a good idea?

 

[Anthrax817]

Foes are Toast (Rotom-h) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Trick

When Luke and spinners are common, this is the Pok'emon I need to counter them. Outspeeds DD Gyarados and SD Lucario and OHKOs both with Thunderbolt/Overheat. Trick is a pesticide, a good way to remove a annoying pokemon from the game. He's also one of my 2 Levitators and my typical Flygon s/in.

Just an idea but since Rotom is your main Flygon switch in, you could try Hidden Power Ice over Ground

 

[AlphaBravo]

Just an idea but since Rotom is your main Flygon switch in, you could try Hidden Power Ice over Ground

Gonna try it.

 

[Lightsabre]

If you want to change your lead, then you can try the traditional Swampert lead. It eliminates a ground weakness, grants another fire switch if you're that worried about them, and does just as good a job as Metagross at setting up rocks. Also, you can beat Metagross 1v1 most/all of the time. The only problem is this gives another grass weak. That's not too terribly bad, however, since Latias and Scizor resist it.

 

[AlphaBravo]

If you want to change your lead, then you can try the traditional Swampert lead. It eliminates a ground weakness, grants another fire switch if you're that worried about them, and does just as good a job as Metagross at setting up rocks. Also, you can beat Metagross 1v1 most/all of the time. The only problem is this gives another grass weak. That's not too terribly bad, however, since Latias and Scizor resist it.

Meta->Pert+Tenta->Fort introduced some general vulnerabilities (no clear ones, but I lost twice the points), so I reverted it. Any help?

 

[tlb31m]

mixed and cb electiver seems to be the only thing that can be a threat because it covers your team in all aspect and can make a clean sweep CB electiver more than the mixed version.Also watch out for Swampert that is the main thing that can mess with your team.Pert will cause this team so much trouble.

 

[AlphaBravo]

mixed and cb electiver seems to be the only thing that can be a threat because it covers your team in all aspect and can make a clean sweep CB electiver more than the mixed version.Also watch out for Swampert that is the main thing that can mess with your team.Pert will cause this team so much trouble.

If Latias switches in on either's resisted attack (or better, Earthquake), someone is going to lose half of its health (aka Draco Meteor). However I DO have some Pert problems. Do you have any idea how to fix it?

 

[symphonyx64]

If Latias switches in on either's resisted attack (or better, Earthquake), someone is going to lose half of its health (aka Draco Meteor). However I DO have some Pert problems. Do you have any idea how to fix it?

Although its not an OHKO, you could theoretically switch your Rotom's Hidden Power to Grass. That would be the easiest fix I see without restructuring your team. But beyond hitting Swampert and the occasional Rhyperior hard, Hidden Power Grass doesn't help in any other significant way.

Against a standard Mixpert: 78.2% - 93.1%.