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NU Discussion Thread (Mark II)
- Thread starter twash
- Start date
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The Saikyou Events had some decent natures in the long run, GF isn't that blind to actually good natures.
Entei'll need Wish support to get past rocks + recoil + LO (or whatever you run), but it has the offenses to become a top tier mixed sweeper quickly, but it still has to contend with the plentiful bulky waters (HP Grass isn't going to help much against things that it doesn't get 4x against). I'm too lazy to do calcs though.
I'm hedging my bets that it'll turn out Adamant.
I'm hedging my bets that it'll turn out Adamant.
This is a set for SS Huntail that i can see destroying... i might want to make some fixes though... Use on RD Team... w/ light screen bronzong or whatever else works...
Huntail@Leftovers
Swift Swim - Modest/maybe Rash/Timid?
4 HP, 200 SpA, 52 Def, 252 Spe
-SuperFang
-Brine
-SuckerPunch
-AquaRing
Huntail under SS actually has a decent Speed, so under Light Screen, it could probably take out a couple pokes.. i'll put more details later... tell me what you think
Huntail@Leftovers
Swift Swim - Modest/maybe Rash/Timid?
4 HP, 200 SpA, 52 Def, 252 Spe
-SuperFang
-Brine
-SuckerPunch
-AquaRing
Huntail under SS actually has a decent Speed, so under Light Screen, it could probably take out a couple pokes.. i'll put more details later... tell me what you think
Two things. A. good set, wrong pokemon. Walrein does this much better, as a stalling stallbreaking beast. Huntail is more of an out-and-out sweeper, so his set would probably be more like this:
Huntail@Damp Rock
252atck/252Spd (adamant)
Waterfall
Sucker Punch
Return
Rain Dance
The main reason I suggest this set over yours is because yours requires at least two turns per pokemon. While Huntail may be very durable under Light Screen, you only have so many turns of that and rain. you either have...5 turns of LS and 3 turns of RD, or you have...2 turns of LS and 7 turns of RD. You're probably better off bashing heads right out of the gate.
B. This is the NU discussion thread, so Bronzong is not allowed (sadly). Alternative dual screeners would be Jumpluff or Gardevoir(the latter can also set up rain)
Anyone else kind of dissapointed by espeon as a sweeper? I thought it would hit a lot harder.
At most, I am getting 1 CM up due to is physical frailness. And even at +1 it isn't ohko'ing things... which it needs to do because it can't really take a hit.
it seems to have fit in nicely in NU (IME on wifi) and isn't the broken beast a lot of people thought it would be.
thoughts? maybe I am just using it wrong.
At most, I am getting 1 CM up due to is physical frailness. And even at +1 it isn't ohko'ing things... which it needs to do because it can't really take a hit.
it seems to have fit in nicely in NU (IME on wifi) and isn't the broken beast a lot of people thought it would be.
thoughts? maybe I am just using it wrong.
Terrible speculation. Only pokemon that completely break UU are BL.
(Staraptor, Honckrow, Yanmega) etc.
Arcanine still has it's merits over Entei, namely a better movepool and 2 better abilities.
you should post some calculations, about the damage output, and maybe even how much it takes after a curse from random EQs.
Also I don't like at all curse + super power... I know it has very few phisical option but, wouldn't be at least baton pass acceptable in the last slot? (or wish for self healing)
Yeah, Wish or BP would work alright, but then you get walled by Rock-types. Not that there are many around atm, except Armaldo which doesn't resist Fire.
TBH I think Miltank and Lickilicky make better Cursers.
There isn't much that a +1 LO Espeon can't OHKO with Psychic, except resists and REALLY Specially Bulky stuff (Slowking).
TBH I think Miltank and Lickilicky make better Cursers.
There isn't much that a +1 LO Espeon can't OHKO with Psychic, except resists and REALLY Specially Bulky stuff (Slowking).
Response to previous Huntail:
Compare SS Huntail's speed to Walreins (both max EVs)
Walrein:251
Huntail:446
HUNTAIL THEN OUTSPEEDS ANY NU POKEMON WITHOUT A BOOST!!!!!!
(Jumpluff NOT included: Sunny Day)
Huntail only has 2 less max SpA then Walrein, so that makes very little difference relatively!
Huntail also has more even defenses with LS up... Both are 200somethings, can't really remember.
Anyway Baton Pass could also be used.... It's a set with a lot of potential in my opinion.
Compare SS Huntail's speed to Walreins (both max EVs)
Walrein:251
Huntail:446
HUNTAIL THEN OUTSPEEDS ANY NU POKEMON WITHOUT A BOOST!!!!!!
(Jumpluff NOT included: Sunny Day)
Huntail only has 2 less max SpA then Walrein, so that makes very little difference relatively!
Huntail also has more even defenses with LS up... Both are 200somethings, can't really remember.
Anyway Baton Pass could also be used.... It's a set with a lot of potential in my opinion.
I probably have missed a couple pokes, but only 7 or so can outspeed Huntail in rain... only relicanth, floatzel and seaking seem like a problem to me.... but prob missed a couple somewhere... but you get the point. Sucker Punch takes care of leftovers... I'm not used to making NU teams so any advice on the set would be appreciated... like the guy with the Special Scizor lol...
I'm going to try assembling a team with this... hopefully does good...
I'm going to try assembling a team with this... hopefully does good...
I've found Huntail to be pretty lame in Rain. I've found that Floatzel, Relicanth and especially Gorebyss are better Rain abusers. Floatzel is pretty impossible to outspeed in Rain (Which is good since Scarf Primeape is a bitch, outspeeding all other abusers). Relicanth gets Stone Edge and stuff too. Huntail's Physical moovepool is too shallow for it to really warrant itself a spot on Rain teams over those three. It still has some competition from Seaking for a spot as a fourth Rain Abuser. (Seaking had Megahorn to use as a better Neutral move, and hits Slowking, and Grass types harder than Crunch or Ice Fang)
Personally, I much prefer an Electrode lead to Persian. Explosion > U-Turn means you don't have to let your opponent get damage on one of your sweepers, and you can choose to invest more in attacking stats or in bulk because you don't need much speed to beat Jolly max speed Persian/Floatzel.
The rest of my team would be three rain sweepers - one or more of which would probably carry Rain Dance - an RD-carrying Electric-type sweeper (Raikou in UU, Manectric here probably) and a bulkier supporter that can come in twice if necessary - Gardevoir, Miltank or perhaps Lickilicky.
Relicanth is awesome. It needs Head Smash, though, even if Swift Swim - it might lose a whole big chunk of its HP killing something, but it only really needs Head Smash for those things that threaten your team a lot - bulky waters.
Quagsire is a real problem for rain atm. It walls Relicanth and Floatzel, only having trouble with Gorebyss and anything else that carries HP Grass.
Floatzel needs to carry Bulk Up so it can get through Miltank.
The rest of my team would be three rain sweepers - one or more of which would probably carry Rain Dance - an RD-carrying Electric-type sweeper (Raikou in UU, Manectric here probably) and a bulkier supporter that can come in twice if necessary - Gardevoir, Miltank or perhaps Lickilicky.
Relicanth is awesome. It needs Head Smash, though, even if Swift Swim - it might lose a whole big chunk of its HP killing something, but it only really needs Head Smash for those things that threaten your team a lot - bulky waters.
Quagsire is a real problem for rain atm. It walls Relicanth and Floatzel, only having trouble with Gorebyss and anything else that carries HP Grass.
Floatzel needs to carry Bulk Up so it can get through Miltank.
Since Surf/ Ice Beam/ HP Grass gets almost perfect coverage, a few swift swimmers should have it by "default", not only to counter Quaggy.
EDIT: Shedinja runs over lots of Rain Dance Teams. Have an option to deal with it.
EDIT: Shedinja runs over lots of Rain Dance Teams. Have an option to deal with it.
Relicanth? Floatzel and Huntail should be running Crunch to beat Slowking anyways, so yeah.
I think the biggest threat to Rain teams really comes from Trace. Gardevoir and Porygon2, the only two pokes with the ability, are both in NU. Both see decent usage, as well, though often eschew Trace for Synchronise and Download respectively. If one or the other copies Swift Swim, they can run through entire teams with their powerful Thunderbolts - both boast decent bulk, as well. Floatzel's Crunch can cause Gardevoir problems, but with a Timid nature and 188 EVs Gardevoir outspeeds neutral natured 0 EVs Floatzel (which otherwise outruns everything in NU bar Scarf Electrode with Rain up).
There basically isn't much Rain teams can do to stop this, except running more speed on their sweepers. That forces them to run less bulk on stuff like Floatzel, leaving it less effective. Fortunately Trace is relatively rare at the moment, but if Rain usage picks up (and Rain teams find a reliable sweeper that isn't walled by MilKing), Trace might be worth considering for your team.
There basically isn't much Rain teams can do to stop this, except running more speed on their sweepers. That forces them to run less bulk on stuff like Floatzel, leaving it less effective. Fortunately Trace is relatively rare at the moment, but if Rain usage picks up (and Rain teams find a reliable sweeper that isn't walled by MilKing), Trace might be worth considering for your team.
Just pointing out that Gardevoir only used Synchronize 13.9% of the time; that's hardly often. Porygon2 used Download 31.9% of the time, which is higher, but still not very often.
Also, call me crazy, but I don't see the big deal about Entei and Flare Blitz. It's still not going to be very useable.
It's clear that you're not looking at NU ladder statistics, which can be found in the CAP sub-forum. These are the actual usages of their abilities for Jan 2010:
| Gardevoir | Ability | Synchronize | 51.7 |
| Gardevoir | Ability | Trace | 48.3 |
| Porygon2 | Ability | Download | 50.0 |
| Porygon2 | Ability | Trace | 50.0 |
Anyway, the NU stats aren't even a very good indicator of what's being used anyway, because there are so few battles on it.
January's statistics are completely out-of-date, considering that they were recorded before the tier changes. That's why there were so few battles - people were playing unranked battles in the new meta, because Doug hadn't updated the ladder.
Arcanine is almost always superior to Entei - even if Entei gets a good nature, Arcanine will get more versatility in that area. Arcanine also gets Morning Sun, Flash Fire/Intimidate and Extremespeed, all very useful tools that make it better than Entei. Therefore, Entei is highly unlikely to move up to UU.
However, it could wreak impressive amounts of havoc in NU, though it is walled by Miltank and Slowking.
Arcanine is almost always superior to Entei - even if Entei gets a good nature, Arcanine will get more versatility in that area. Arcanine also gets Morning Sun, Flash Fire/Intimidate and Extremespeed, all very useful tools that make it better than Entei. Therefore, Entei is highly unlikely to move up to UU.
However, it could wreak impressive amounts of havoc in NU, though it is walled by Miltank and Slowking.
I put a team together with that Huntail.. (above) see how it does... ive never been very good at team making anyway...
Had the Huntail in OU lol.... killed 1-2 pokes a match....
I'll post the team on RMT just in case... check it out!
(1-2 days)
Had the Huntail in OU lol.... killed 1-2 pokes a match....
I'll post the team on RMT just in case... check it out!
(1-2 days)
I've been using Xatu as a Wish Passer in NU with good success. My main NU team requires a lot of Paralysis support, and Xatu can give that as well with thunder wave. With Pursuiters like Skuntank everywhere, it's nice to have a move like U-turn on a Psychic type to escape the inevitable. I find Xatu pairs up nicely with Screens Ampharos to set up my sweepers and spread even more Paralysis via Static. Sweepers like Slowking, and Guts Ursaring appreciate the support these two pokemon give.
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