So basically, a Fire Deoxys? Seems like it'd be better to differentiate it via secondary typing or semi-unique moves. It would definitely help to not get any more freaking Fire/Fighting Pokemon.
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Pokemon Black & White, aka Gen 5. Coming to Japan in Fall 2010.
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So basically, a Fire Deoxys? Seems like it'd be better to differentiate it via secondary typing or semi-unique moves. It would definitely help to not get any more freaking Fire/Fighting Pokemon.
I wan't a defensive Fire starter honestly. I'd like the Water Pokemon to be the Hyper offensive one for once, and the grass pokemon to still be the balanced one. It might be interesting to have the fire pokemon as the supporter, maybe one that can spike/stealth rock or spread paralysis. Though, it may just end up being a better Camerupt.
Fire is a horrible typing for a defensive Pokémon, though. Torkoal, Magcargo, and Ninetales have defensive-leaning stats, and they're all NU.
Fire/Steel, Fire/Ground seems to pull it off well. They are all NU because they are fire types with a Stealth Rock weakness. Heatran is a great defensive and offensive Pokemon, and he is fire type. All it needs is a secondary typing to remove it's rock weakness and it should be good.
x4 weak to one of the most plentiful types out there probably isn't good for a defensive Pokemon.
Not necessarily. Heatran is 4x weak to ground after all, and everyone thought that would be "fatal" for it defensively.
Probably the bigger issue is that the 4x weak in question, Water, is not only one of the most powerful offensive types (in terms of neutral coverage), but worse, has no immunities.
Gyarados, Tyranitar and Heatran have 4x weaknesses, but because there are immunities to electric, fighting and ground, they have teammates that can easily get around the issue. On the other hand, Dragonite has great defensive stats (and reliable recovery!), but ends up relying more on its offensive capabilities (a sweeper instead of a tank), probably in large part because Ice is not a type that any team wants to have to switch into repeatedly.
On the same note, outside Vaporeon, most teams don't want to have to deal with constantly trying to protect and switch into STAB water attacks. Even pokemon like Latias and Celebi who can shrug those attacks off easily won't like having to keep doing it, because the turns they take to recover health (and thus letting the enemy move freely for a turn) could be fatal.
Probably the bigger issue is that the 4x weak in question, Water, is not only one of the most powerful offensive types (in terms of neutral coverage), but worse, has no immunities.
Gyarados, Tyranitar and Heatran have 4x weaknesses, but because there are immunities to electric, fighting and ground, they have teammates that can easily get around the issue. On the other hand, Dragonite has great defensive stats (and reliable recovery!), but ends up relying more on its offensive capabilities (a sweeper instead of a tank), probably in large part because Ice is not a type that any team wants to have to switch into repeatedly.
On the same note, outside Vaporeon, most teams don't want to have to deal with constantly trying to protect and switch into STAB water attacks. Even pokemon like Latias and Celebi who can shrug those attacks off easily won't like having to keep doing it, because the turns they take to recover health (and thus letting the enemy move freely for a turn) could be fatal.
Water Absorb/Dry Skin is on quite a few pokemon, maybe not so much in OU, but there is nothing really stopping you from say, using Quaqsire in OU. If this fire pokemon ends up being defensive and 4x weak to water, and is then banished to the lower tiers, well, it just has more team mates to work with.
What they should do is make quite a few more pokemon with Water Absorb. I wouldn't mind seeing a Steel or Ghost pokemon with that attached to them.
I think its the dragon weakness that cripples it and not the ice one. No one wants to repeatedly switch into salemence/opposing dragonites/latias. The only thing that really uses ice attacks is bulky waters and special attackers so they can be handled by a simple blissey (exceptions being infernape, gyrados and electivire).
Look at his quote again;
He was not implying they were the ones immune, but that there are immunities for the Pokemon listed 4x weaknesses.
I agree, more pokemon with Water Absorb would be welcome (ones that aren't water types themselves). Dry Skin is more likely in that regard, but added fire weaknesses isn't very welcome in OU (where rain is also not that prevalent).
As it stands, I hardly see Vaporeon (as the only real OU water absorber/dry skin user) as being the great wall against water-type sweepers. Sure, it definitely would stop them, but even Vappy doesn't command enough popularity to be too concerned about. Also, unless the enemy will kill themselves with LO, Vappy has no real effective way itself for killing its fellow water types.
I could see if GF made a more sweeper-oriented water type and were kind enough to give it thunderbolt, it would probably get the better of most water absorbers.
I would prefer if the starter pokemon weren't the average Fire/Water/Grass spread. Something a little more original would be a refreshing change, though having them weak against each other would be a little tricky. Maybe new types? Also, a mono-type starter selection could be viable if they all held very different roles, movesets, and secondary typing.
technically lotad family is water-grass, not grass water ;-)
but yes. still, imagine of ludi had a starter sized BST...wooowie. it's all about distribution of course, but imagine a grass-water with a 525 or so BST. something like 80/90/95/105/85/70 with duel stabs on Water and Grass, plus subseed, plus the ice attacks water usually brings...compared to 80/70/70/90/100/70, which is ludicolo now...and everyone knows how that can wreck unprepared teams in UU and occasionally even OU. and then imagine the beastliness of Fire and Water together...i'm drooling....
but yes. still, imagine of ludi had a starter sized BST...wooowie. it's all about distribution of course, but imagine a grass-water with a 525 or so BST. something like 80/90/95/105/85/70 with duel stabs on Water and Grass, plus subseed, plus the ice attacks water usually brings...compared to 80/70/70/90/100/70, which is ludicolo now...and everyone knows how that can wreck unprepared teams in UU and occasionally even OU. and then imagine the beastliness of Fire and Water together...i'm drooling....
Personally, I'd like it if the next Water Starter didn't have access to Ice attacks outside of breeding (no matter what its secondary typing is... unless that secondary is Ice, of course).
I've always wanted a Steam Pokemon! Probably be some sort of lizard, likely resembling a snake.
Water/Poison,
Since I hope for some real grass types (offensively) this time, a Water Poison starter would have the Secondary STAB to ruin one of Waters weaknesses.
EDIT: While thinking this should be a jellyfish like pokemon, I realised Tentacruel is kind of the same ^^
Since I hope for some real grass types (offensively) this time, a Water Poison starter would have the Secondary STAB to ruin one of Waters weaknesses.
EDIT: While thinking this should be a jellyfish like pokemon, I realised Tentacruel is kind of the same ^^
On the subject of starters, I remember someone suggesting something along the lines of having two starters, who at the beginning are both dragon type - that way, both can fire off supereffective STAB hits at each other. Then, upon evolution, they would become Dragon/Fire and Dragon/Ice respectively - that way both their secondary STABs would be a neutral hit on their counterpart. Ideally, one would evolve into a special-based sweeper, while the other one a more physical sweeper.
Thoughts, anyone?
Thoughts, anyone?
Although that seems cool to have domk275, it seems highly unlikely. Since I believe starters will remain Fire/Water/Green and continue to have 3 starters.
Hopefully we'll get a Fire/Dragon type... Maybe that grass/dragon type everyone's anticipating will actually be the starter for grass. Doesn't seem like there will be any dragon starters, but would be nice.
I also hope that the 600 BST pseudo legendaries will be specially based sweepers, theres way too many physical threats right now. And a 600 BST special sweeper with taunt and nasty plot or Special DD and high speed (120~) would be awesome.
Hopefully we'll get a Fire/Dragon type... Maybe that grass/dragon type everyone's anticipating will actually be the starter for grass. Doesn't seem like there will be any dragon starters, but would be nice.
I also hope that the 600 BST pseudo legendaries will be specially based sweepers, theres way too many physical threats right now. And a 600 BST special sweeper with taunt and nasty plot or Special DD and high speed (120~) would be awesome.
I'd rather have something like:
120 / 65 / 60 / 110 / 60 / 115
water / grass
Natural Cure :naughty:
@leftovers
-Leech Seed
-Substitute
-Surf / Energy Ball
-Taunt / Energy Ball
Little investment to get 101 subs and then Leech Seed + Taunt + Substitute can say f-you blissey. :P Plus no one could be sure it's not just a Specs Hydro Pump / Leaf Storm / Ice Beam / Trick variant. :P
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