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CAP 10 CAP 10 - Part 5c - Secondary Ability Discussion

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Let's open the ability table

Code: 
Anti-Status = Poison Heal/Magic Guard/"Status Guard"
+------+------------+--------+---------+---------------------------------------+
| Rank | Name       | Usage  | Percent | Status                                |
+------+------------+--------+---------+---------------------------------------+
|    1 | Scizor     | 217219 |   28.90 | No Particular Ability                 |
|    2 | Tyranitar  | 168542 |   22.43 | Magic Guard helps via SS a bit        |
|    3 | Salamence  | 167840 |   22.33 | Counter'd                             |
|    4 | Heatran    | 161064 |   21.43 | Anti-Status helps with Toxic          |
|    5 | Latias     | 160676 |   21.38 | No Particular Ability                 |
|    6 | Rotom-A    | 152909 |   20.35 | Anti-Status helps with Toxic          |
|    7 | Gyarados   | 140890 |   18.75 | Counter'd                             |
|    8 | Jirachi    | 135745 |   18.06 | Anti-Status helps with ParaHAX        |
|    9 | Metagross  | 128249 |   17.06 | Filter/Poison Heal helps vs. EQ       |
|   10 | Gengar     | 110599 |   14.72 | No Particular Ability                 |
|   11 | Swampert   | 108579 |   14.45 | Filter/Poison Heal helps vs. EQ       |
|   12 | Lucario    | 107548 |   14.31 | Counter'd                             |
|   13 | Infernape  | 107524 |   14.31 | Filter helps if heavyweight           |
|   14 | Starmie    |  91560 |   12.18 | No Particular Ability                 |
|   15 | Blissey    |  87757 |   11.68 | Anti-Status helps with Toxic/T-Wave   |
|   16 | Gliscor    |  82044 |   10.92 | Filter helps vs. EQ                   |
|   17 | Azelf      |  78160 |   10.40 | Damp can prevent daboom               |
|   18 | Magnezone  |  74714 |    9.94 | Counter'd                             |
|   19 | Skarmory   |  72901 |    9.70 | Magic Guard can prevent Spikes Damage |
|   20 | Vaporeon   |  68829 |    9.16 | Anti-Status helps with toxic          |
+------+------------+--------+---------+---------------------------------------+

Poison Heal looks like the best out of the list, but it may be too good. Magic Guard is #2 place, but we don't want semi-STAB BoltBeams coming out of 344 SpA. ESPECIALLY when combined with STAB Surf to 2-hit Swampert and Tyranitar, 339 speed, 94% of 4/0 Latias's Special Bulk on both sides, and entry hazard immunity do not help at all.
 
If it's allowed, I would like to mention giving CAP 10 Rebound. It would help in much the same way any of the status-immunity abilities, as well as Magic Guard without being overpowered (Life Orb + STAB Volt Tackle + no recoil = I don't think so).
 
First of all, I think that while custom abilities can go very badly (eg Secondary Immunity, Ignoring Negative Priority (every single person would run choice-scarf and whirlwind, and with some hazards down and its natural bulk and speed, you can say gg as soon as you switch in), its a little premature to completely disallow them. I think that it would be foreseeable for someone to propose an ability that would realistically be made by gamefreak (shouldn't be too hard, they make like 50 new ones each generation) it should at least be looked at. It is possible that there is an ability that helps with utility countering significantly that Gamefreak hasn't thought of yet. That said I don't support any custom abilities that have been proposed yet.

Also, my thoughts on Status Guard (which is basically Immunity to the Secondary, as Deck Knight has proposed it), which is getting a lot of attention:
This ability is, frankly, ridiculously good. You get, free switches on tons of pokemon, the perfect status absorber, and a perfect counter to many pokemon (Blissey won't be able to do anything, though I'm not sure how much CaP 10 can do to Blissey). The thing is, there are already way more reasonable checks for status. You can use a Lum Berry (should be enough for many threats). You can use Rest + Sleep Talk (which most pokemon get, and rest seems like the most reasonable form of recovery for CaP to get without making it too tanky). Or you can also run a status absorber on your team. Yes, I know that thats not Ideal, but frankly CaP 10 will never be Ideal either, and won't literally counter every single pokemon single handedly when customized appropriately. And if it does, than it will undoubtably become over powered and go beyond the concept. Anyways, what was the point of making Collosoil to 'stop the secondary' if we're just going to make a pokemon who can do it better in almost every way?
But what really gets me is how people seem to think they will play CaP 10. It won't just be 'Pick a pokemon from the OU list, and switch in whenever you see it'. Thats just stupid. Of course you will be able to do that sometimes, but why not switch in a different pokemon to take Breloom's spore, then put in CaP 10 to do the actual countering. With just a little more creativity, we can deal with most of the things that we think will destroy CaP 10.
 
I agree with Deck Knight and others that the best direction to go with the secondary ability is to try to block status; several of the Pokemon that CAP10 could be assigned to deal with (notably Rotom-a (Burn) and Breloom (sleep)) attempt to status their opponents. Magic Guard is a very strong ability, perhaps too strong, but it sortof misses the point; the most dangerous statuses are Burn and Paralysis because of the Attack drop and Speed drop respectively, and Magic Guard doesn't block either effect. I feel that Poison Heal is probably the best option therefore; it blocks status while adding to CAP10's functional bulkiness, important considering that without Trace CAP10 will be missing the defensive help of its obtained ability (such as Intimidate or Levitate). The extra 6% per turn over Leftovers would really help when dealing with the threats that Trace can't cover (like Lucario). 12% recovery per turn is not as amazing as it sounds as first, considering that to have any attacking ability at all, CAP10 will really only be bulky on one side of the Def/SpD spectrum.

Edit: I agree with Shock Trooper and the few others that have mentioned it that Damp sounds like a good idea as well. It would really strike a big blow to Heatran, Gengar, and Azelf (and Metagross without Earthquake, rare though it is) to deprive them of the ability to Explode on CAP10.
 
I feel that if we create a secondary ability that attempts to counter everything Trace doesn't, we fulfill CAP10's concept by only making CAP10 able to counter specific threats at given times. If we take what CAP10 counters with Trace and what it can counter naturally, the following OU Pokemon remain a pain to take down:

Aerodactyl
Azelf
Breloom
Dragonite
Gengar
Gliscor
Heracross
Kingdra
Latias
Lucario
Machamp
Metagross
Rotom-A
Snorlax
Tentacruel


Now we obviously can't counter all of these with just a secondary ability, but we can address the bigger issues with the use of an ability. All of the above Pokemon either can carry Earthquake to harm CAP10, cripple it with Toxic, or just have strong moves that can take CAP10 down if its not careful. The "strong moves" Pokeon can be dealt with in terms of the movepool. Earthquake does remain a big issue, however, as does Toxic. Quite a few Pokemon can also attempt to Explode on CAP10, which prevents it from countering what it is supposed to. Because of these reasons, I propose that CAP10 either have Levitate, Poison Heal, or Damp for a secondary ability.
 
In terms of dealing with offensive threats that Trace doesn't adequately address, I would like to suggest Natural Cure as a secondary ability. This may seem strange, as none of these top threats like Lucario, Tyranitar, Latias, Scizor, etc. really use status, but with Rest as a healing option and the numerous switches that come about when it comes to countering, Natural Cure can be a great way to keep your utility counter in good shape and able to keep countering throughout the battle. I'll illustrate my point:

1) CAP switches into Lucario as it Swords Dances.
2) Fearing a KO opponent switches to a CAP counter that can take a predicted Fire/Ground/whatever move. Lucario is countered.
...
3) Lucario's in again (having taken SR/Spikes damage), opponent knows that CAP will switch in, goes for CC to start wearing it down. CAP (252 Def / 40 SpA / 216 Spe Timid) switches in, taking 53.8% - 63.5% from CC while Lucario takes LO recoil.
4) Once again, fearing a KO, opponent switches out Lucario to a CAP counter that can take predicted hit. Lucario is countered. As Lucario switches out, CAP 10 uses Rest and restores CC / entry hazard damage.
...
5) Lucario is in a third time (having taken SR/Spikes damage), opponent knows that CAP will switch in, goes for CC again, planning for the 2HKO as CAP tries to Rest again. CAP switches in, awake and at full health (minus entry hazard damage), taking 53.8% - 63.5% (not KO'd only by the fact that it used Rest earlier) from CC while Lucario takes LO recoil.
6) Predicting Rest again, opponent goes for CC or SD to force CAP out or else be 2HKO'd or allow Lucario to set up SDs. CAP uses Overheat / Fire Blast / move for >70%-80% damage and KOs (factoring in Luke's LO and entry hazard damage). Lucario is countered.

I don't at all think this is an unreasonable scenario. In any case, Lucario is on the field of battle a full three times and each time is effectively countered by CAP thanks to Natural Cure, Rest, and a SE move. With the pressure being on CAP to counter a specific opponent multiple times throughout a match, longevity is key. Being worn down by repeated attacks, entry hazard damage, and status (especially Toxic) greatly reduces this CAP's effectiveness, so having a way of dealing with those things enough to be able to switch into your countee more easily and more often would be really helpful for this concept. I think Natural Cure is a good method of doing that.

Apart from that, it gives CAP an easier time absorbing status for the team or scouting for whether Blissey's running Thunder Wave or Toxic or not being crippled forever by Toxic / paralysis / burn, among other things. In terms of dealing with threats that Trace can't handle, it's the most useful ability I've seen suggested in this thread and is an excellent complement to Trace, as they accomplish the goal of utility countering in two distinct ways (I would never use Natural Cure CAP to counter DDMence or Gyara; Trace is infinitely better for them, but I would never use Trace to counter Lucario, Scizor, or Tyranitar, Natural Cure is much better for them).
 
Considering that the ability we picked is Trace, which works situationally against many threats in OU and doesn't work against others, we should be trying to find an ability that covers as many different things as we possibly can. This is, unfortunately, a bit difficult, due to the fact that the things that are stopped/not stopped by Trace are not uniform, and we will never be able to come up with an ability that compliments it perfectly. But it's important to highlight the choices that do this best (and comment on the ones that do not).

As has been said, Trace does NOT stop most status abusers, which means that Heatran is going to end up doing a lot of damage with a Sub Toxic set if it gets a chance to use Toxic once and Earth Power. Rotom-a is going to end up being a nuisance if it gets a chance to use Will-O-Wisp on a sub set or RestTalk set. This also applies to Zapdos using Toxic. For these reasons, I believe that the anti-status approach is a valid one. However, I don't want this to be the only approach represented in a poll. For this reason, if I had to support one ability that takes the anti-status approach, it would definitely be Poison Heal, due to its ability to actually benefit the CAP against other threats by using the extra healing afforded by using Toxic Orb to let it take more hits. Magic Guard, which made the previous poll, remains an interesting and valid choice for its ability to protect against both harmful statuses and entry hazards, but as reachzero said, it doesn't protect against the additional effects of burn and paralysis.

I'm actually somewhat surprised to see that any and all support for Intimidate has died upon Trace being selected. The primary utility in Trace is copying resistance/immunity abilities, as I'd like to point out that Trace only acts as Intimidate against two commonly used OU Pokemon, Salamence and Gyarados. Of the two, Gyarados is the only Pokemon who is virtually guaranteed to be running a physical set, whereas Salamence is very often going to be spamming Draco Meteors, which would make Trace completely useless against it. CAP10 is capable of taking on Mixmence, but the issue is that Trace is effectively working as Intimidate against only ONE Pokemon a good deal of the time. On the other hand, Intimidate itself works against a wider variety of physical threats that are currently somewhat of a handful for our Pokemon, such as Tyranitar, Lucario and Machamp, and it also allows CAP10 to better take STAB and unSTAB Earthquakes as a whole. So I would definitely still consider Intimidate a good candidate for the second ability.

Eh, I'm pretty iffy on Damp, if only for the reason that I feel it would be somewhat of a letdown if it won. Being immune to Explosion and the occasional Snorlax Selfdestruct is nice and all, but is that really the #1 concern for CAP10 after the threats that Trace addresses? We have to think practically here, and I don't see anybody using Damp over Trace for the reason that some things like to blow up. As for No Secondary Ability, I feel that this is even worse than picking a filler ability like Damp. We have an opportunity to cover another variety of threats in the metagame, whether or not we end up getting everything in the end, and this choice is basically saying "I give up on trying to do anything else". The last thing I would want to do with our secondary ability slot is make it a cop-out or a forfeit.

----

Anyway, I'm currently in Japan on a trip, which means that timezone-wise, it's not realistic to expect that I'll be on here at the EST equivalent of midnight a lot of the time. So I'll probably look through this again this afternoon (EST) and render the decision to make the poll or not. I encourage you to discuss this further until then, using this post as a basis (you can also argue against it if you wish).
 
I actually just didn't know whether or not Intimidate was even an option since it "lost". If it is then I definitely support that, and I hope the other individuals who argued for it in the previous poll do as well. As you mention, Intimidate does a very good job of letting us cover physical threats that Trace is useless against, and is prevented from being overpowered due to a) its effects disappearing on the switch out, preventing any sort of general wallishness and b) physical threats being so powerful that they'll do a crapton of damage anyway.

Poison Heal would be a good alternative as well, and would probably pick up some of the slack in covering physical threats (some of the calcs posted earlier suggested that we can now survive Luke and Ttar's assaults much easier with double lefties) if we don't choose Intimidate, and it would give us handy status absorption.

I'm definitely against Magic Guard. I play UU frequently, and it turns Clefable from something as forgettable as Wigglytuff into a premier special wall, mixed attacker, and annoyer. If we give it to something with CAP10's stats and (presumably) diverse movepool, I don't think the results would be acceptable in the OU metagame.
 
If the choices were down to intimidate and status curing ability, I'd choose status curing ability. Out of all the status curing abilities mentioned so far, I like Poison Heal and Hydration. I feel magic guard will enable CAP10 to counter more than one specific pokemon at a time since it can switch in freely.

Poison Heal would be beneficial in that it gives HP recovery, but would limit CAP10 to just one item.

Hydration on the other hand, will require one moveslot to be effective, but may potentially be more beneficial with STAB moves getting power boost, and also 100% accurate thunder. Also, requiring a moveslot may actually fits into the concept of CAP10, as remaining 3 moves would have to be specifically chosen to counter a given threat only.

Overall, my support first goest to Hydration, then Poison Heal.
 
BEEJ said that Magic Guard doesn't protect from burn or paralysis like Poison Heal does but don't they do that exactly the same? You will be protected from burn and paralysis if you choose a toxic orb and it gets a turn to activate. That said, I am not in favor of Magic Guard at all but I just wanted to make sure I was straight on the abilities. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. EDIT: I realize now that BEEJ's statement was not a comparison of the two. Still Toxic Orb fixes that if it is worth the item slot to you.

After looking through everything again I have to say that Poison Heal looks the most promising. It undeniably helps with longevity and status and I don't think it will break the concept. I think Magic Guard will ruin it(I for one would go semi-wallbreaker with it) and the rest of the status related abilities are rather lackluster.

I am still staunchly opposed to intimidate for the reasons that others and I stated in the primary ability stage. It forces out the entire physical side of the metagame. That is SO far from the concept I still can't believe it is being discussed. It won't make CAP10 broken but it will scrap the concept.
 
fear_my_shuckle said:
BEEJ said that Magic Guard doesn't protect from burn or paralysis like Poison Heal does but don't they do that exactly the same? You will be protected from burn and paralysis if you choose a toxic orb and it gets a turn to activate. That said, I am not in favor of Magic Guard at all but I just wanted to make sure I was straight on the abilities. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
Click to expand...
He means that Magic Guard prevents damage from status, but does not prevent the attack drop from burn or the speed drop from paralysis
 
After reading through the all thread i notice that you guys who do not support Magic guard claim that it would become something of a wall breaker or even sweep if given Life Orb in the late game.
The ones who support Magic Guard(like myself) use the argument of immunity to entry hazard to help CAP10 do the job and the versatility that it provides.
Okay, first of all i do not support any kind of custom ability, i think we have all the toll that we need within the game, that been said, i woul like to suggest a middle term we coul give for Cap 10 volt or water absorb that way, even if switch repeated times into entry hazards it could have a pseudo-healing that way.

And for the ones supporting poison heal;that ability seems a little to much in my opinion, since CAP 10 will be bulk, have good speed and passable offenses giving him immunity to every other status(assuming cap is poisoned of course) and double leftovers recovery would give him walling abilities that i think it does not need and goes off the concept.
Just take Breelom as a example, after a Substitute and with leech seed it is a pain to take out, even though it has spore CAP on the other hand will be faster and have more staying power.
Thats what i think.
 
One more thing about the secondary ability: if we make it something that effectively allows a free boost to either attacking stat (and Magic Guard eliminating Life Orb recoil counts as a free boost) then we might as well have just made a stat spread with all base stats over 100, because apart from one defensive stat, that's what the net result will be. No free attack/special attack boosts.

And Beej, I don't really like no secondary ability either, but name one ability that:
  • Only covers pokemon that Trace doesn't cover
  • Covers at least as many pokemon that Trace does Point taken, fear my shuckle
  • Doesn't give a free boost to either attacking stat
  • Fits the concept of being able to counter loads but only a few mons at once
  • Doesn't make CAP10 broken
This definitely rules out Intimidate, Flash Fire, Volt Absorb, Water Absorb, Motor Drive, Technician (Scizor), Levitate, Magic Guard and Download. I've probably missed a few.

Any ability that fails to fulfil all of these criteria is not the right secondary ability for CAP10. If there is no existing ability that fulfils all of these criteria, then we either have to go with no secondary ability or a custom ability.

EDIT: A base 100-110 attack/special attack even without an item is still dangerous, and that's the equivalent of what CAP10 gets when it holds Life Orb. At least without Magic Guard, the boost comes at a significant price.
 
SlashingTires said:
He means that Magic Guard prevents damage from status, but does not prevent the attack drop from burn or the speed drop from paralysis
Click to expand...

He meant that with either ability you can run a toxic orb and be immune to status after the switch-in, which is true. Some Clefable sets run toxic orb for the sole purpose of preventing paralysis or burn. The differences are that with magic guard you also don't take hazard and other secondary damage (recoil, leech seed, etc), and with poison heal you get double leftovers recovery.

Edit:
One more thing about the secondary ability: if we make it something that effectively allows a free boost to either attacking stat (and Magic Guard eliminating Life Orb recoil counts as a free boost) then we might as well have just made a stat spread with all base stats over 100, because apart from one defensive stat, that's what the net result will be. No free attack/special attack boosts.
Click to expand...
One difference is that when something has Base Stats over 100, they can the put an item's boost on top of that, making their offensive stats that much higher. Not saying that I support Magic Guard, but you're putting things out of perspective by making comparisons like that.
 
I don't think your second point is valid Objection. As long as the second ability works on pokemon that Trace doesn't it will have some viability for countering those threats. Assuming that we have to find an ability that is equal to Trace as far as usage is concerned is limiting ourselves far too much. However, I, like you, am not sold on any of the abilities so far. But short of a broken ability I will vote for something.
 
I don't see the objection to Magic Guard. The argument seems to be that it will make it more offensive than need be? Well this has nothing to do with offensive/defensive, it has everything to do with the concept of utility counter. With such an ability as Magic Guard, this may be fulfilled. Sure, it opens up opportunities for no recoil Life Orb, but the possibilities extend far beyond that, plus this Mon's offensive stats were kept low to minimize abuse. This thing is hardly a powerhouse. I think more people would be continuing to use this CaP as a defensive Pokemon, much like Defensive Clefable is used more over Offensive Clefable.
 
OK, upon further discussion about Magic Guard, I have decided that it may be 'too good', especially because of the Life Orb set, even with offensive stats on par with Clefable, the far better defences, and STABS make it a legitamate threat [Although, more of a Swampert than a Starmie]

However, I am still of the opinion that CAP10 needs some way of nullifying passive damage, because otherwise, it will be ravaged every switch in, and acheive nothing.

So, I'm going to make a list: Italics means I do not support them, Underlined means interesting and support. Just bold is neutral. Note, I am only including abilities which will reduce status, secondary damage, and are viable.

Magic Guard: The 100% damage stopper. My point of veiw on supporting Magic Guard was always stopping damage, I didn't care about the attack/speed drops. However, on second thoughts, this is probobly too useful, and the easy way out.

Air Lock: This is an interesting idea, actually, and has many benifits. No pokemon has decent enough stats, bar Rayquaza [Who's Uber] to pull it off in OU. Weather runs rampant, especially with Tyranitar useage. So, what does Air Lock stop?


  • Rain Dance Teams are crippled
  • Tyranitar loses his Special Defence boost against CAP10
  • Passive damage from Sandstorms and Hail are removed
  • Sand Veil for Gliscor is nullifyed
  • Snow Cloak for Mamoswine is prevented
  • Thunder becomes 70% accurate [Not good vs Rain]
  • Blizzard is 70% accurate
Everything else is not really notable, Sunny Day = LOL WHAT? Thunder is listed because CAP10 will probobly get STAB Thunder, annd it might actually be worth it to cripple the responce to CAP10, and deal good damage. Blizzard is also a likly move.

Air Lock is actually where my support lies right now. Countering Weather is something new, and it helps prevent some passive damage, which helps CAP10 counter everything else better. [Although, they miss the damage too]

Mountaineer: Scylant's ability. Stealth-Rock immunity is going to stop the 'I took 12.5% damage for nothing' which is going to happen a lot with this CAP.

Poision Heal: Status blocker. However, with CAP10's massive HP, 12.5% healing every turn, especially when the foe's probobly going to switch out, which will equate to 25% healing, is going to be too good, especially with added status immunity.

Motor Drive: Blocks Thunder Wave, +1 Speed is nice... and it turns a resist into an immunity. But, with Base 100 speed... we might wind up making 'Vire Version 2.

Rock Head: Prevents Recoil from Volt Tackle, should CAP10 recive it

Natural Cure: Well with all the switching CAP10 is likly to do this is actually useful.

Yeah, my support lies with Air Lock, to counter weather, reduce passive damage, ad to investigate it's viability in OU... which is what CAP is about.
 
Raikaria said:
Motor Drive: Blocks Thunder Wave, +1 Speed is nice... and it turns a resist into an immunity. But, with Base 100 speed... we might wind up making 'Vire Version 2.
Click to expand...

Water/Electric is neutral to Electric, so Motor Drive is more useful than that.


Also, about Air Lock, who are you countering? You still can't switch into Hippowdon for fear of Earthquake. Tyranitar is softened a bit but still overwhelmingly strong offensively. For Kingdra, you might as well use Trace. Abomasnow is rare enough. Gliscor you won't switch into and Trace + Sand Veil is good too. I don't see what Air Lock gives us that makes it ever a better option, overall, than Trace.

CAP10 will be great in Rain due to boosted STAB and Thunder so Air Lock completely closes this niche.
 
Objection said:
Any ability that fails to fulfil all of these criteria is not the right secondary ability for CAP10. If there is no existing ability that fulfils all of these criteria, then we either have to go with no secondary ability or a custom ability.
Click to expand...
This is silly. The idea that we had the option to conjure up a duo of existing abilities that individually cover every threat together isn't accurate, and saying that because we can't do that now, we have license to use only one ability out of principle is missing the big picture. Even if the abilities being discussed in this thread don't *perfectly* cover Trace, they each provide a way to cover an additional bunch of scenarios when used in tandem with a customized stat spread. By choosing NST, you are allowing this Pokemon to cover LESS threats situationally for literally no reward. It also gets rid of a crucial form of customization, which is picking from one of two abilities to round off your particular set. I don't see this as an option, considering the concept we have.
fear_my_shuckle said:
I am still staunchly opposed to intimidate for the reasons that others and I stated in the primary ability stage. It forces out the entire physical side of the metagame. That is SO far from the concept I still can't believe it is being discussed. It won't make CAP10 broken but it will scrap the concept.
Click to expand...
While I understand the concern behind Intimidate, I also don't see that this is a problem, considering that the ability is only one facet of this Pokemon, and you will need to EV yourself and give yourself the right moves to counter specific Pokemon, and you will remain vulnerable to other physical threats. The only thing that has been proven in regard to Intimidate, as far as I'm concerned, is that it will become viable on stall teams as a defensive Pokemon. But I honestly don't care WHAT kind of team it becomes viable on, as long as it's viable on every other kind of team, and as it stands, a fast Pokemon with the ability to check individual threats is very useful to any offensive team.
Raikaria said:
Air Lock: This is an interesting idea, actually, and has many benifits. No pokemon has decent enough stats, bar Rayquaza [Who's Uber] to pull it off in OU. Weather runs rampant, especially with Tyranitar useage. So, what does Air Lock stop?


  • Rain Dance Teams are crippled
  • Tyranitar loses his Special Defence boost against CAP10
  • Passive damage from Sandstorms and Hail are removed
  • Sand Veil for Gliscor is nullifyed
  • Snow Cloak for Mamoswine is prevented
  • Thunder becomes 70% accurate [Not good vs Rain]
  • Blizzard is 70% accurate
Everything else is not really notable, Sunny Day = LOL WHAT? Thunder is listed because CAP10 will probobly get STAB Thunder, annd it might actually be worth it to cripple the responce to CAP10, and deal good damage. Blizzard is also a likly move.

Air Lock is actually where my support lies right now. Countering Weather is something new, and it helps prevent some passive damage, which helps CAP10 counter everything else better. [Although, they miss the damage too]

Yeah, my support lies with Air Lock, to counter weather, reduce passive damage, ad to investigate it's viability in OU... which is what CAP is about.
Click to expand...
I'll admit that Air Lock is somewhat interesting at a glance, but if our goal is really to cover as many different (different from the primary ability) threats as possible, Air Lock kind of falls flat. Let's look at your list for a second. Rain Dance teams are already not doing too well against us, because Trace allows you to copy their most powerful weapon, which is Swift Swim. Gliscor abusing Sand Veil isn't that rare, but it's an extremely situational thing. Mamoswine is even more situational, considering Hail is rare, and Mamoswine isn't actually on a good deal of Hail stall teams that choose to take the more defensive route. Thunder and Blizzard are rarely, if ever, used, and the Blizzard point is moot entirely, because who on Earth is going to try to Blizzard CAP10 to death? This basically leaves Tyranitar as the primary reason for using Air Lock, and there are ways to cover Tyranitar that also cover a wider variety of situations. Intimidate lowers its Attack along with the Attack stats of other threats, and Poison Heal allows you to take its hits better if your Toxic Orb is activated (AND you beat Toxistallers). So Air Lock is iffy with me.

----

I feel like there's still a bit more to discuss, and I wanted to give more of my input. The poll will be up later tonight (whether posted by me or anyone else).
 
Suggesting Intimidate now seem rather redundant to me. People already complained about how Intimidate is too good for CAP10 within the primary poll, what chance does it have within the secondary poll? I wouldn't mind having Intimidate though.

Poison Heal and especially Magic Guard would be abilities I would greatly use over Trace in majority of my battling situation. Poison Heal for the sheer health and status immunity benefits while Magic Guard for the entry/weather hazard immunity. It's ironic that while I really want a CAP Pokemon with Magic Guard, I can see MG being too much on CAP10 so f we have to give it a secondary ability, I would go with Poison Heal as my choice.
 
I'd like to say this: people are worried about status, no? Therefore why not go and Trace Natural Cure? Starmie and Blissey aren't that uncommon in OU, and it's not as if switching into either of the two is that painful.


I support No Secondary Ability. Trace is good enough really, and we don't need an ability per se to deal with "uncountered threats"; we can do that with movepool. Stuff like Intimidate make it more of a universal counter rather than I feel we want CAP10 to be.
 
I think Magic Guard is to much for CAP. With those stats and great typing, receiving no indirect damage (especially if it gets a recovery move) will make it really difficult to take down.

Air Lock is a bit iffy for the reasons Beej already mentioned.

An ability that is interesting me is Motor Drive, since we could inspect the defensive side of that great ability. Also, it would secure the wins against Starmie, Latias, Gengar and other fast attackers. It wouldn't be like Electivire at all since Vire is a frail and powerful attacker and CAP 10 and bulky counter. So yeah, it would be interesting to explore.
 
Lumin said:
I think Magic Guard is to much for CAP. With those stats and great typing, receiving no indirect damage (especially if it gets a recovery move) will make it really difficult to take down.

Air Lock is a bit iffy for the reasons Beej already mentioned.

An ability that is interesting me is Motor Drive, since we could inspect the defensive side of that great ability. Also, it would secure the wins against Starmie, Latias, Gengar and other fast attackers. It wouldn't be like Electivire at all since Vire is a frail and powerful attacker and CAP 10 and bulky counter. So yeah, it would be interesting to explore.
Click to expand...

Another neat, and somewhat important fact, is that with Motor Drive/Volt Absorb, CAP10 will join Magnezone and Lanturn as BoltBeam resistors and will have resistances/immunities to Fire, Water, Ice, Electric (0x), Steel (4x), Flying. Those first 4 are fantastic together. Also, adding an immunity greatly increases the opportunities to switch in.

While it does take a step towards Lanturn on Steroids, Lanturn is a great Pokemon.
 
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