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In-game tiers (RBY + GS)

I've decided to play through Red/Blue with different parties to get a better grasp of who really is efficient.

I just finished a run. Here are my thoughts on the Pokémon I used:

Charmander: my starter, used up to level 29 and boxed before Rock Tunnel. In the early-game I think he's underrated as a starter--what he loses in inefficiency against Brock (whom he can still solo anyways) he gains in being the best Bug-killer and having the easiest time at Mt. Moon. Ember is a great attack. However he hits a mid-game rut where the other starters have learned better moves and he's still using Ember, and this inconvenience led me to ditch him this run. He's efficient at times, but he's not top tier.

Pikachu: the early-game star. Pikachu is surprisingly self-sufficient as long as you have a teammate to kill the rocks. There are parts of the game where Pikachu can gorge himself silly on Water- and Flying-type Pokémon (S.S.Anne is one such area--I think my Pikachu grew ten levels there). Most other enemies still dislike a STAB Thunderbolt and even Grass-types and pure Grounds can be dispatched by Swift. You can evolve him pretty early, too. Raichu's strength fades at the very end, but not by much--he's still helpful in beating Lorelei.

Abra: once Kadabra gets Psybeam he slaughters the entire middle-game. I'd be surprised if any Pokémon is half as efficient as he is.

Tentacool: my Water-type. What's useful about Tentacool is if you catch it at level 30 he already OHKOs the wild Fire-types in the abandoned mansion. That way you can simply put him in the lead once you hit Cinnabar and he'll level himself up to the rest of your party in no time. Other Water-types aren't quite strong enough.

He also gets better coverage than the other Waters due to Mega Drain. In a pinch he can take on Lorelei if your electric-type faints. Fortunately my Raichu didn't, but Tentacruel was the Elite Four MVP anyways, beating most of Lance and Gary's teams (and Bruno, but anyone can do that).


In this run I aimed for a team I knew would work efficiently. Next time I'll go for a similar but weaker team. I'll get back on how well various Pokémon work.
 
On the subject of Charmander, I still think it's top tier. Sure, for a while it is in that little Ember rut, though even that's enough for quite a lot of things (and if you used your Dig TM on it, it's even better, but not necessary). Then you get Slash, which basically always gets a critical hit and has incredible neutral coverage. Once you get that, you're good for basically the whole game, and you get Fire Blast at Blaine to back it up. Slash is plenty good enough until then.

I did use it myself quite recently in Red, and I liked it.

I'm really close to the end of a run of Ruby so I might run through some of these soon, though I think I'll pay attention a little more to RSE.
 
About RBY: No Fire-type should be in the High tier. Actually, Fire is among the most useless types in-game, because Flying outclasses it completely (a supereffective hit on Fighting is much more valuable than a supereffective hit on Ice, given that most Ice Pokémon in RBY are also part Water), and if you pack Ice attacks you hardly have the need for Fire moves. Moreover, Charmander is a pain to raise (at least, compared to Bulbasaur and Squirtle - I'd rather hit supereffectlively Onyx and Starmie rather than Caterpie which is gonna die to Tackle anymore), and the other Fire-types (Magmar, Rapidash, Moltres, Arcanine, Ninetales) are obtained too far in the game to be actually useful. The only exception here is Flareon, but when you realize that Vaporeon with Ice Beam (you can get TM13 in Celadon anyway) does almost the same job AND covers a lot more, you'll see there is no need for Fire-types.

GSC: Forget what I said above. Fire rules here. A lot of the gym leaders and the E4 have a large weakness to Fire types (Bugsy, Jasmine, Koga, etc), and even trainers which do not focus on Fire-weak Pokémon generally end up having one or two anyway, especially in the E4 (Will's Jynx and Exeggutor, Karen's Vileplume).

I'll make more inputs tomorrow. Luckily I have played RBYGSC a lot recently, trying different Pokémon, so I know what I'm talking about.
 
I think you're discounting the role wild Pokémon and trainers play in a Pokémon's efficiency, though. Charmander can actually be done with Brock at about the same time as Squirtle, and much faster than Bulbasaur or anybody else.

Here's how many moves it took me to get from level 8 at Viridian Forest to beating Brock with each starter:

Bug Catcher 1:
- Charmander: 8 Scratches
- Squirtle: 8 Bubbles

Bug Catcher 2:
- Charmander: 3 Embers
- Squirtle: 11 Bubbles

Bug Catcher 3:
- Charmander: 2 Embers
- Squirtle: 5 Bubbles

Jr. Trainer:
- Charmander: 7 Embers
- Squirtle: 6 Bubbles

Brock:
- Charmander: 13 Embers
- Squirtle: 4 Bubbles

Charmander actually comes ahead by a move. Now, on the one hand, I did get lucky against Brock and I never needed to stall out his Onix's Bide. On the other hand, I picked a Charmander with low attack stats which probably cost me a few moves.

In Mt. Moon it's still close which starter is more efficient. Charmeleon can only 2HKO Geodudes and his Embers can run low (Wartortle can just Bubble enemy Geodudes to conserve his Water Gun PP), but he beats the two Bug Catchers and the Grass-type Lass more quickly and can one-shot Paras.

The point is, for much of the early-game it really is a difficult question whether Charmander or Squirtle is more efficient. They both beat Bulbasaur for sure. He has to wait to level 13 to get Vine Whip, a miserable move with just 10 PP and ineffective against all the early-game Bugs, Poisons, and Fliers.


On another note, I think it might be a good idea to organize our thoughts about each Pokémon by the criteria by which we tier them. The parameters that matter are:

- Availability: when can we use this Pokémon?
- Ease of capture: how easy is it to catch?
- Self-sufficiency: how much do we need to baby this Pokémon for it to reach (and stay at) an appropriate Level? Consider the starters, Abra, Magikarp, Lapras, and Zapdos as extreme cases.
- TM neediness: does it need exclusive TMs we might want to give to other Pokémon? (Conversely, does it get good moves by level-up?)
- HM usage: can it use HMs?
- Resource consumption: does this Pokémon need healing often? Does it run out of PP and force you to use your Ethers and Elixers?
- Power: how good is this Pokémon? About how many moves does it take to kill any given enemy?

And we can measure a lot of these in terms of time-cost. For instance, take Abra. You might need 15 minutes to catch him and another 15 to hand-hold him to level 16. Is this a good investment? Will it save you time in the long run when he's OHKOing everything with Psybeam compared to a Pokémon like Squirtle who requires no coddling but isn't as powerful? While this isn't a speed-run, I do think time is a useful measurement (maybe the best measurement) of your team's efficiency.
 
Charmander's main problem isn't with the early game. The main problem is that Ember is his only STAB until level 46, while Ivysaur gets Razor Leaf at level 30 and Blastoise's Surf is event-based but will surely come earlier than level 46 and becomes available to you as soon as you get the Pokeflute. By the time Charmeleon learns Slash, Venusaur has not only learned the superior Razor Leaf but also fully evolved, and at this point Wartortle is probably also close to getting Surf as well. Mid-game, Charmander arguably becomes less useful than something like Digglet which at least has a good STAB. Dugtrio also learns Slash two levels later than Charmeleon, which is four levels later than you can catch it.


Returning to several things earlier in the thread that I didn't address the first time they came up:
Longfellow said:
Diglett's a weird case because it's pretty much only good for beating Lt. Surge. However, it's really good at that, and considering that your other Pokémon probably aren't, it deserves a high spot.
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Diglett is good for a lot of reasons. It comes at a high level. If you catch a Dugtrio (not that hard) chances are that it will be higher than your median team level at that point in the game. Also, in RBY, Dig has 100 power, making it a very useful move throughout the game. It's basically as good as Earthquake for all intents and purposes, save for the very few in-game trainers who use stat-up moves. Dig will rip through the ghost tower, which is a lifesaver if you picked Bulbasaur (whose grass moves hit for 1/4 damage and whose normal moves do nothing). Even Squirtle and Charmander are somewhat slow against the ghosts (unless you taught them dig) since they rely on their special stat to damage the ghosts via their STAB and the ghosts have high special to resist it. If you keep him around, Digglet is also good for holding Venusaur's hand through Blaine, Giovani (gym battle), and Agatha late game. Digglet starts at a high level for the time that it joins with an attack that is basically Earthquake, which is a very good STAB to have.

Also with regards to the "waters rule" thing, I would still say that Bulbasaur is better than Blastoise. Grass does everything against rock/ground hybrids that water does, and Bulbasaur has a type advantage against the first three gyms, whereas Squirtle is advantage, neutral, disadvantage. Also factor in Razor Leaf, which you can treat like a 110 base damage STAB minus the ability to crit. Razor Leaf also has 25 PP, which does matter for in-game purposes. Another minor thing that favors Venusaur: Remember that in RBY, special doubles as a defensive stat. That means that Venusaur effectively has a higher base stat total than Blastoise and Charizard (if you double their special stats to account for the fact that special's impact is two-fold). The only real disadvantage Venusaur has is that it doesn't learn Fissure, but there are plenty of other things you can teach it to (like maybe Dugtrio!)

Pikachu's usefulness is somewhat diminished in RB (not Y) by the fact that he requires the Thunderbolt TM to be effective, and that Thunderbolt TM really should go to Zapdos.
 
As for Charmander, that's why I boxed him in that initial run. He does manage himself with Slash and Dig later on, but not well enough to be top-tier. But he's fine at the beginning so I do have to object to the popular wisdom that he's the worst early-game starter.

I'll have to play Diglett in my next playthrough. He does beat the ghosts at Pokémon Tower and that's probably the hardest part of the middle-game so I may have to re-evaluate my thoughts on Diglett. I do remember him having more trouble hacking through masses of trainers, though.

One thing about Venusaur and Razor Leaf is while it's a terrific attack with many PP, you may be forgetting how many Poison-types there are in the game. Unless you teach him Body Slam (which is a high-demand TM), he has a lot of difficulty on the bike path and in the Rocket hideouts, plus he's utterly at a loss in the Pokémon Tower as you pointed out. While Blastoise has to spend a good portion of the game with the weaker Bite and Water Gun/Bubblebeam, those two moves offer great coverage and allow him to 2HKO most enemies at worst, while Venusaur languishes against Zubat.

I don't see how Fissure would help Venusaur, in any case. Earthquake might. In a game where well-chosen Pokémon can 2HKO almost everything, you don't need inaccurate OHKO moves.

I actually did play through a large swatch of the game with Pikachu's Thundershock and while it prevents Pikachu from being a total monster, he still did fine. As I mentioned, there are several areas that are thick with Flying- and Water-type Pokémon (S.S.Anne, Silence Bridge, the Seafoam route) where even Thundershock is very welcome.
 
Longfellow said:
inaccurate OHKO moves.
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OHKO moves become 100% accurate if you use an X-accuracy, and they're the best way to tear through the tougher segments of the Elite Four. OHKO moves are probably the best use of your PP restoration items, at least those that don't have "max" in their name.
 
Regressing further: going back to Mekkah's Yellow tier list, why is Bulbasaur ranked below Charmander when they come at almost the exact same time? Actually, Bulbasaur comes slightly earlier than Charmander because it's available as soon as you enter Cerulean city, whereas Charmander forces you to reach that point and fight your rival, as well as all of the trainers on nugget bridge. Also, let's look at when Bulbasaur and Charmander join: right before you fight Misty. We've already discussed Bulbasaur/Charmander's mid-game usefulness (Ivysaur gets Razor Leaf at level 30 and evolves at level 32, whereas Charmeleon gets Slash at level 33 and evolves at level 36 and has Ember as his only STAB until level 46) so I see absolutely no reason to rank Bulbasaur below Charmander in any of the first-gen games.

In case this needs explaining: in order to get Bulbasaur, you nee to get Pikachu to like you. To do this, just heal him to full health, then repeatedly use a single potion on him. (Each use of the potion will fail, because he is at full health, and the item will stay in your inventory but still increase his affection.) There is basically no cost involved with acquiring Bulbasaur, apart from the minute or so that this exercise takes.


Also, having used Nidoran in both RB and Y playthroughs, I think it's safe to say that Nidoran is the best Pokemon in any of the first gen games, hands down. This point isn't even arguable in yellow, and the only way that RB Nidoran differs from yellow Nidoran is that he lacks Double Kick.

Everything that follows pertains mainly to Nidoran male, although the female version is almost the same. Nidoqueen also naturally learns Body Slam but loses for having slightly "worse" stats (lower speed and attack, higher HP and defense). Possibly bar the issue of Body Slam, there's really no reason to use female Nidoran when male Nidoran is basically the same thing but much better. Though, I think rarity might vary with version, so you could make a case for Nidoran F if the time involved catching it is a factor.
  • Nidoran comes at the very start of the game. Seriously, the only things that come earlier than Nidoran are your starter (obviously), Pidgey, and Rattata. Nidoran basically beats everything when it comes to join time.
  • Good in the early game. He learns Horn Attack, a 60-power attack, at level 8. Wartortle doesn't get Bite (functionally the same attack) until level 22. Nidoran's Horn Attack is on par with a STAB Water Gun or Ember, which aren't learned until level 15 or 9 respectively.
  • Goes along with the previous bullet point but only pertains to yellow: Nidoran gets Double Kick at level 12, another 60 power attack which is a fighting type attack. This means super effective hits against normal types (very significant early on). Also rock types, which makes him decent against Brock and Mount Moon at least, especially Brock since a water gun Ratata is not an option there. Though, you might not want to use the water gun TM on Ratata, because Nidoran gets access to it at the end of the first floor of Mount Moon, thanks to:
  • Tier three evolution at level 16. By the time it hits level 16, you're probably already in Mount Moon, where you can obtain a moonstone effortlessly on the first floor. Nidoking statistically outclasses everything for most of the game, because up until the 30's he's competing with the likes of Ivysaur and Wartortle, rather than Vensaur and Blastoise.
  • Amazing movepool. Already covered Horn Attack and Double Kick above. Pretty much the only TMs that Nidoking doesn't learn are Dig and Psychic. Every other worthwhile TM (Bubblebeam, Water Gun, Ice Beam, Rock Slide, etc), Nidoking learns. I think Nidoking can safely net the "best possible candidate for Earthquake" award. Every other ground type worth using learns it naturally, and you can't really argue that something like Blastoise would be a better use of Earthquake when Nidoking gets STAB and it runs off his beefy attack stat.
  • This goes along with the previous bullet point, but it's significant enough to warrant separate mention: He learns both Horn Drill and Fissure. Against the Elite Four, a Nidoking with Horn Drill and Fissure is one of the best possible uses for an elixer. Another way to look at it: if you were saving the Fissure TM for something else, Nidoking can still learn Horn Drill at almost no cost. (It can be bought in Celadon for the cost of half a dozen ultra balls.)
  • Parabolic growth rate.
Nidoran rules the early game (amazingly good join time, Horn Attack at level 8, Double Kick at level 12 in Yellow), early-mid-game (tier three evolution when everything else is struggling to catch up statistically, amazing movepool), mid-late game (gets Earthquake at Silph) and late game (wrecks everything with Horn Drill, and also Fissure if you so desire). Yeah, he requires TMs to function, but of the in-demand TMs, you really have no better use for Earthquake, and apart from that he only needs Bubblebeam OR Ice Beam. (Even Water Gun will do if you're being stingy.) You can also say that Rock Slide is essentially part of his natural move pool as there's nothing else that you could do with it. The only other things you might be using it on are Graveler, Primeape, Dugtrio, and Snorlax. It's probably not going to Graveler or Primeape (because they're mediocre Pokemon that you probably won't be using anyway) and Dugtrio and Snorlax have STABs that are better than Rock Slide.
 
abra to high on the adv tier list, evolves fairly quickly and psychic is really the only attack you need. kadabra gets psybeam which is monumentally better than confusion, kirlia skips straight to psychic and you run into some pp issues. kadabra is great even if you don't evolve him. gardevoir can learn electric moves but most water types are tentacruel, which psybeam hits anyway. i guess if you're playing sapphire the ralts line is preferable for all of aqua's carvanha but meh, i still say abra to high

whismur at mid, you can spend your tms on better stuff. zubat and koffing in low, taillow and wingull out class the former and the latter is only good if you give it fire blast

are the pokemon ranked in-tier or is just a general thing, cause magnemite is a better electric than electrike
 
Yo on your ingame tiers why is Pikachu > Nidorans? I always felt the latter was better due to superior movepool and... being able to evolve. =/

EDIT: I'd also argue Staryu > Doduo. About the same availability, but Staryu's movepool with TMs is too hard to pass up. Surf / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam / Psychic hits every E4 Member for SE damage except Jynx and Alakazam. Doduo doesn't really nab an Gym nor E4 advantage unless you get it before Eirika I guess. Even with just one of those TMs it's pretty efficient since it cleans house well with its moderate Speed. The other two moves can be ditched for Recover (I believe) and possibly Flash (though I doubt it's necessary).
 
Colonel M, I don't think that Mekkah's tier lists order within tiers; they're either alphabetical or based on Pokedex number (Bulbasaur first, Arceus last).


Based on this, I tried to construct what I think is an accurate RB tier list. I ordered things within tiers, but things are really tricky as you get closer to the bottom of the list. Is Lickitung really worse than Ponyta? I've never tried using either in a playthrough, so it's almost impossible for me to make an accurate determination. That being said, I think that my upper tiers do reflect general usefulness, though being that this is a first draft with many possible errors (especially anything below the first three tiers) I expect that everyone will find something they disagree with. I think having an actual tier list (rather than a "list of tiers") should be a good launching point for new discussions, though.

**Top**
NidoranM
NidoranF
Diglett (+Dugtrio)
Bulbasaur
Squirtle
Zapdos

**High**
Staryu
Charmander
Snorlax
Pikachu
Mr. Mime
Abra
Vaporeon

**Upper mid**
Geodude
Spearow
Doduo
Rattata
Lapras
Jolteon
Drowzee
Poliwag
Articuno
Mankey
Gastly
Magikarp
Jynx

**Lower mid**
Oddish
Bellsprout
Sandshrew*
Slowpoke*
Caterpie
Clefairy
Jigglypuff
Meowth
Psyduck
Farfetch'd
Exeggcute
Rhyhorn
Pidgey

**Low**
Hitmonlee
Hitmonchan
Moltres
Tentacool
Ekans
Vulpix
Zubat
Venonat
Growlithe
Machop
Onix
Paras
Tangela
Kangaskhan
Horsea
Magnemite
Cubone

**Bottom**
Flareon
Ponyta
Lickitung
Shellder
Tauros
Chansey
Electabuzz
Magmar
Goldeen
Koffing
Grimer
Weedle
Omanyte
Kabuto
Aerodactyl
Seel
Krabby
Voltorb
Pinsir
Scyther
Porygon
Dratini
Ditto
 
Ah, I'm so used to Mekkah ordering his tiers. -.-;

If Mekkah is fine with your list (which I bet it is), I'll comment on some things with it. I don't see how Zappy is top but Snorlax isn't though I guess lack of Spe could be seen as a disadvantage.
 
I'm trying out Dugtrio and Venusaur right now. Just reached Lavender, so I can only talk about early-game now.

Dugtrio hasn't yet learned Slash and as a result he struggled in Rock Tunnel. You need lots of PP there and Dig doesn't have enough, plus the Zubats often take two Scratches to go down and you really don't want to get hit by Supersonic. So far he's meeting my initial impression as a Pokémon who's very good at meeting specific threats but manages poorly in long dungeons. I suspect that'll change once he gets Slash.

It's probably less of an issue if you're lucky enough to catch a Dugtrio outright instead of raising a Diglett.

I don't know if I should count it against Dugtrio's efficiency that Dig takes two moves to complete. It slows down the game but as strategy/health goes it's just as good as Earthquake.

It's hard for me to rate Venusaur well because I soloed all the way up to Diglett cave so he was overleveled (though anybody can get overleveled at that point). He has gone long stretches absolutely dominating--he OHKOs everything in S.S.Anne, for instance (don't think any other Pokémon except maybe Pikachu can do that)--but the few cases where he can't OHKO, he's had a lot of trouble. I almost lost to the Bug Catcher's Butterfree on the way to Vermilion (needed two Potions). Back before he got Razor Leaf, he would get Sand Attacked by enemy Pidgeys, opening the door for a lot of unwanted hits. I think the Pokémon who resist Razor Leaf (Zubat, Bellsprout, Oddish, Butterfree) carry the most annoying attacks. Compare that to the risk Charmeleon takes against a Geodude or Onix--he just takes Tackle damage.

I wonder if I'd have less trouble if I had partnered Venusaur with Pikachu or Nidoran. Or maybe I should go ahead and teach him Body Slam.

What's nice about Bulbasaur is he beats Misty and Lt. Surge effortlessly. He can defeat Misty fresh out of Mt. Moon, which is hard for Squirtle and near-impossible for Charmander. This mean he can gain a few levels in her gym and then confront Nugget Bridge stronger than Charmander or Squirtle can.


Edit: Just finished Game Corner and Pokémon Tower. Dugtrio kicks Team Rocket ass with Slash. Venusaur's not as bad against the Ghosts as I thought he'd be (Razor Leaf 2HKOs), but it's really preferable to one-shot the Ghosts to avoid Lick paralysis and Confuse Ray, and Dugtrio covers that decently. I'd prefer an attack with more PP than Dig, but realistically most Pokémon can't OHKO Gastly with any high PP attack, so Dugtrio is highly valuable here.

I caught a Haunter and taught it Psychic. I'm considering giving it Thunderbolt but maybe I should hold off till Staryu or Zapdos.


Edit 2: Finished Silence Bridge, Bike Path, and Koga's Gym. Starting on Silph Co. Dugtrio reached level 47 and learned Earthquake; he OHKOs most things, though I have to be careful avoiding attacks because he's fragile. Venusaur's generally doing well, though he has trouble 2HKOing the bulkier Poison-types. I can pass them onto Duggy or Haunter though. Besides that I really appreciate Razor Leaf's high PP. Haunter is the weak link, running out of PP quickly (even after I taught him Thunderbolt) and unable to kill Magnetons, Hypnos, and other bulky Pokémon that are neutral to his attacks (though there aren't many--most enemies at this point are Water, Poison, or Flying).
 
Just beat the Elite Four a few times. My team is badly-balanced and lost more than once. Here are my thoughts on each member.

First, Lorelei is damned lucky :(. I tried taking her with Venusaur and twice her Jynx got a CH Ice Punch freeze, and twice my Razor Leaf missed against her Lapras, allowing her to KO with Blizzard. Sad times. I tried the X Accuracy/Fissure trick and it worked more consistently, though Dugtrio doesn't like eating Aurora Beam and that damage could jeopardize him versus Agatha (though I got lucky and it never did). I also tried Haunter and got similar results--Jynx's Ice Punch and Lapras's Blizzard take him past half-health, but at least Thunderbolt doesn't (usually) miss.

Bruno lol.

Agatha's ghosts all get OHKOed by Dugtrio and Golbat dies to two Slashes. I also tried Haunter here but it's more slow going--his Psychic 2HKOs the Ghosts and that gives them time to use Confuse Ray, Hypnosis, or Night Shade, moves I'd rather avoid. Dugtrio tends to take much less damage.

Haunter walls Lance. With the exception of occasional confusion damage from Aerodactyl's Supersonic, Lance can't touch Haunter. I tried Venusaur and won, but only after a very long battle using most of my PP. I didn't try Dugtrio but I suspect he wouldn't like Hyper Beam

Gary was the hardest. I couldn't find a strategy that worked consistently on SET, though with SHIFT I won relatively easy. Haunter beats 5 of Gary's Pokémon one-on-one, and Dugtrio can take Alakazam. The problem was Haunter's PP. He needs a lot of Psychics and Thunderbolts to kill Exeggutor (especially if Gary decides to use Full Restore), and if I didn't conserve properly I'd be left without moves against Gyarados or Charizard. So I brought in Venusaur to kill Rhydon and then chip away at Exeggutor with Sleep Powder and Razor Leaf, and that seem to work satisfactorily.

I did try X Accuracy/Fissure here, but Dugtrio actually loses to Pidgeot! It Mirror Moves my Slashes. Even if I do manage to survive I can only kill three Pokémon, though that gives me time to bring in Haunter and finish off Gyarados and Charizard which is good.

Based on this run I would tier

Venusaur in high: a reliable starter and great against the early Gym Leaders. He learns Razor Leaf quickly and evolves early, becoming an early-mid-game powerhouse. He does have some trouble against enemies who resist Razor Leaf and he matches poorly against the Elite Four. Maybe next time I'll give him Body Slam.

Dugtrio in high (maybe top): comes at a high level and knows Dig naturally, which is immensely helpful against Lt. Surge and in Pokémon Tower. Once he learns Slash he's very good at beating the masses of trainers on routes like Silence Bridge and the Bike Path. However, before he learns Slash he's awkward and once Victory Road comes the enemies get bulky enough to survive his Slash and Earthquake, and he's too fragile to survive many hits.

Haunter in upper-mid: needs TMs badly, and he has stiff competition for the Thunderbolt TM with Zapdos (and Raichu, and Staryu...). Runs out of PP quickly. On the other hand Psychic and Thunderbolt has great coverage considering all the Water-, Poison-, and Flying-types in late-game and he fares very well against the Elite Four. Next time I might give him Mega Drain instead of Thunderbolt.

I'm also reconsidering Pikachu. It isn't really fair of me to knock Venusaur's occasional bad matchup when Pikachu can never beat a Geodude. And Venusaur's Razor Leaf is a much better attack than Pikachu's Thundershock. Next time I use Pikachu I'll put him with teammates less competent than Kadabra and see how it turns out.

Sorry if I'm extra-incoherent. I'm very sleepy.
 
There is one thing I do not understand. In GSC, cloning was extremely easy if I recall correctly. Why should "X needs an exclusive TM" a reason to push X down a tier when said TM is easily duplicable? I can't be the only one who cloned loads of TM30 (Shadow Ball) and TM26 (Earthquake) for his sweepers (and those 2 are but mere examples). This is why I think that, at least in GSC, TMs should absolutely not be a discriminant factor (they should be only if, say, X needs Earthquake to be effective but the TM26 is available only by the time you reach the E4 and so it performs mediocrely throughout a lot of the game).
 
zarator, I think as part of our value criteria we are assuming "no glitch abuse." If we allow glitch abuse, then tiers in RB become irrelevant as soon as it becomes possible to dupe rare candies. Same goes for GSC, actually; if you can dupe TMs you can dupe rare candies, and you can easily dupe five rare candies with the amount of effort it takes to dupe a single TM.
 
Are we ready to talk about HG/SS? Looking over the available data, I think the following observations are notable:

Razor Leaf is now physical. This doesn't really hurt or help Chikorita much, as her attack stats are identical. Magical Leaf at level 22 gives her both a special and a physical STAB, which is more than a grass type could have asked for in previous generations. Petal Dance is also a good attack for in-game purposes. Razor Leaf comes two levels earlier.

Typhlosion's movepool is mostly the same, but it's gotten better due to Flame Wheel and Flamethrower coming at level 20 and level 42, respectively. Lava Plume is also nice, coming at level 35. Cindaquil is still the last Pokemon to get a STAB (it doesn't learn Ember until level 10), but at least it gets it two levels earlier than it did before, making it more likely that you'll get it near the beginning of (or even before) Sprout Tower.

I don't think anyone is going to argue that Feraligatr has gotten better. Waterfall is now physical, making it even better late-game, Bite and Crunch are also physical now (previously it didn't even learn Crunch). Feraligatr gets great type coverage and a wonderful STAB in Surf (and Waterfall late game as well). Water Gun at level 6 is also nice.

Cyndaquil and Totodile have both gotten better (Cyndaquil for learning attacks at much earlier levels and Totodile due to getting things like physical water and dark attacks), while Chikorita has stayed mostly the same.

On a similar note, Gyarados has also gotten better. Ice Fang at level 32 and Aqua Tail at level 35 are more than enough to tide it over until Waterfall becomes available. Ice Fang should allow it to single-handedly tear the eight gym apart.
 
In your Crystal tier, it might be a good idea to change Larvitar to mid. It still is post elite four, but you can get it at the slots at level 40, which is around your teams level when you reach Kanto. One level evolves it into Pupatar, and it has Rock Slide and Crunch at that point anyway.
 
I actually mapped a HG | SS tier list with SevenDeadlySins, IOS, and Bblader (the latter two are from another forum that I go to). It's still rickety but we have all the Pokemon tiered except Eeveelutions.
 
Kikuichimonji said:
**Bottom**
Flareon
Click to expand...

...no. RBY, Flareon had 110 Special attack/defense, and was one of the rare users of Flamethrower, and also had Fire Spin. I beat RBY with a Flareon like this:

Fire Blast (It was below the level for FT).
Body Slam.
Fire Spin
Sand attack.

It was hugely helpful in many situations.

Voltorb (low)
Click to expand...

OHNONONONONONO.

Voltorb, besides being caught even before the Rock Tunnel (Which is decent timing), is easy to train. You can give it Thunderbolt at that point, and fill the other slots with Explosion, Screech, and Thunder Wave. And remember, Electrode crits over 1/4th of the time. And he hits a lot of the elite four SE.
 
I pretty much agree with kik's new tier list completely

Sorry matt, flareon is shit. Doesn't get any decent fire moves until way later in the game, until then it was to rely on non stabed normal type moves, which aren't necessarily bad off of his huge attack, but aren't really good either. Voltorb is walled easily and outclassed by basically every electric type since his only advantage is speed (which is basically a non-issue in-game except in extreme cases like snorlax) and explosion( which is almost worthless ingame). Not to mention his best (and virtually only) attack requires a tm.
 
420 said:
I pretty much agree with kik's new tier list completely

Sorry matt, flareon is shit. Doesn't get any decent fire moves until way later in the game, until then it was to rely on non stabed normal type moves, which aren't necessarily bad off of his huge attack, but aren't really good either. Voltorb is walled easily and outclassed by basically every electric type since his only advantage is speed (which is basically a non-issue in-game except in extreme cases like snorlax) and explosion( which is almost worthless ingame). Not to mention his best (and virtually only) attack requires a tm.
Click to expand...

130 Base attack. 110 Base Special. Obtainable at a good level for where it is, and is not extremely late. THAT IS NOT LOW. Admitably, it doesn't get many fire attacks early (Ember, Fire Spin maybe), and even if it's normal attacks are "not really good either", they only are walled by rare ghosts (Pokemon tower, Elite Four, and 3 trainers in Sabrina's gym. That's it) and Rocks (Since this is past Rock Tunnel, there aren't to many of these until Victory road).

If Voltorb is low, with it's critical hit madness, and it's stab hitting a lot neutrally (Just about everything past Rock Tunnel) or super effectively (Team rocket sent out Zubat! Swimmer sent out *insert water pokemon*!), then how in the name of the lord is Pikachu high? If you aren't playing Yellow, it ALSO relys on the TM for Thunderbolt, and the only move it has over Electrode is... Submission. Which means if you are playing Yellow, even if you get Thunderbolt naturally, your only shot of being better than it is going off of a horrid base attack. Now, Electrode is no physical slugger, but 180 BP and the defense halving effect of Explosion makes up for it (mostly)

Of course, that's moot in Yellow anyway because it's only in the Power Plant. But I'd probubly choose Magnaton even without the steel type because Pikachu has nothing to offer (Barring Surf, of course, but you won't be getting that for a while) except naturally learning Double Team/Agility (Ingame though...) and Thunderbolt (Who cares?)

Zapdos beats them all anyway though, but it's more principal that Voltorb is higher. Same with Flareon (While it may be outclassed by Arcanine, it outdoes Growlithe, who will be what you are using mostly to get Flamethrower anyway.
 
RBY

High

Bulbasaur - Starter, good for absorbing poison in viridian, makes mincemeat of the first four gyms.
Charmander - Starter. Horrid against the first two, but shines well later on due to high speed and power
Squirtle - Starter. Fluctuates depending on where you are in the game. Slow but powerful.
Spearow - Easy to find, easy to train, good speed. Fly user that can do stuff.
Pikachu - Rare in the Viridian Forest but worth it for what it can do later on.
NidoranF - Great movepool, and the stats to back it up
NidoranM - See above.
Diglett (+Dugtrio) - Fast, powerful, handy for attacking
Abra - Hard to get, and hard to evolve, but nothing compares in speed and Special
Geodude - Good stats later on, despite being slow. High power too.
Doduo* - Bit harder to get, but as good as fearow, if not better.
Staryu - High speed and special makes it worth getting, even if a bit late
Mr. Mime - Handy pokemon with great movepool
Snorlax - very hard to catch but pays off with great stats
Zapdos - see snorlax, add movepool

Mid
Caterpie - evolves very fast, but is weak later on due to small stats and movepool.
Rattata* - Hyper Fang is good later on, but just lacks power in the higher end.
Sandshrew* - Decently powerful, easy to find, but not fast or bulky enough
Clefairy - Very rare, and usually needs TMs to be effective. High payoff for high risk.
Jigglypuff - Sing is good, but again, low speed and power aren't grear
Oddish - Great movepool, easy to find, but no power and annoying to train.
Meowth - fast, decently powerful, but hard to find and needs a TM or two.
Psyduck* - Not that hard to find, but annoying to train for little reward
Mankey - Good stats let down by a poor movepool and the fact that it's not worth the payoff.
Poliwag - Decent power, but hard to train and needs TMs
Bellsprout - Very annoying to train, low power and speed makes the movepool go to waste.
Slowpoke* - Slow, good bulk, but annoying to find
Farfetch'd* - By the time you get Farfy, you should have better options.
Gastly - fast, powerful, but needs TMs and by the time you get it, it's too late to use what you needed it for
Drowzee - Good movepool, okay stats, let down by annoying to train and there are better options
Exeggcute - Hard to get, obtained late, good movepool can be okay if it's your best option
Rhyhorn - See Exeggute
Jynx - Bad stats lets down the good movepool and the availability doesn't help
Magikarp - takes way too long to train for it to be effective.
Lapras - You get it at such a low level it's not worth training.
Vaporeon - 2100 for a good Special and good bulk attacker is okay, but the movepool is lacklustre
Jolteon - See Vaporeon, - bulk, + speed/crit rate
Articuno - the first legendary you can catch. worth it ish, but don't waste your masterball.


Low

Weedle - evolves quickly into a pile of garbage
Pidgey - weak, slow, one-trick pony
Ekans- rare, weak, no movepool worth mentioning
Vulpix* - needs stone, movepool is limited
Zubat - by the time you realize zubat is actually really bad you'll have wasted your time killing all of them in caves.
Paras - Rare, weak, does nothing.
Venonat - Decent stats, decent movepool, but outclassed.
Growlithe* - weak, small movepool, earned very late.
Machop - Too hard to get to full potential, annoying to train.
Tentacool - See Zubat
Ponyta - again, lack of movepool on a scale of good stats.
Magnemite - needs TMs to be effective, but has limited options anyway
Seel - Earned late, weak, has bad movepool.
Grimer - By the time you get one there are better options
Shellder - Stats are mediocre, movepool is okay. Nothing stellar, nothing worth bothering with
Onix - so many better options
Krabby - decent stats, but the movepool does not accentuate.
Voltorb - good speed, okay power, okay movepool, but there are stronger options by the time you reach this stage.
Cubone - hard to get, hard to level, almost no reward
Hitmonlee - easy to get, but the movepool is monotonous
Hitmonchan - See above
Lickitung - Obtained late, slow EXP gain, good movepool however.
Koffing - Obtained late, needs TMs to be effective.
Chansey - Good bulk, but so rare it's annoying.
Tangela - Generally bad, since it's outclassed at nearly everything
Kangaskhan - Rare, one attacking type isn't fun.
Horsea - Rare-ish, stats aren't brilliant, movepool is forgettable
Goldeen - Decent power, but again, movepool lets it down
Scyther - Obtained very late, despite being relatively effective.
Electabuzz - Movepool does not help stats, which aren't that great.
Magmar - Obtained late, has good power but needs TMs to bring it to full potential
Pinsir - Bad movepool, bad stats. Inferior Scyther, which says a lot.
Tauros - Hard to obtain, and the movepool isn't great, no matter how good its power and speed are.
Ditto - lol
Flareon - bad movepool and low speed can't fix its great attack.
Porygon - Does nothing worth mentioning and is obtained too late.
Omanyte - Hard to obtain, decent power-wise, bad movepool
Kabuto - See Omanyte
Aerodactyl - good stats, okay movepool, just annoying to train by that point.
Moltres - Caught late, and difficult, movepool sucks
Dratini - Caught way too late to prove effective, no movepool, essentially.
Click to expand...
sorry macle my pc was being stupid

Mekkah said:
Yellow

Changes from RB:
Bulbasaur High -> Mid
Mankey Mid -> High
Farfetch'd Mid -> Low

Meowth Mid -> N/A
Jynx Mid -> N/A
Weedle Low -> N/A
Ekans Low -> N/A
Koffing Low -> N/A
Electabuzz Low -> N/A
Magmar Low -> NA

High

Charmander - Obtainable relatively quickly, pretty decent stats
Squirtle - Obtainable early-on, great move coverage
Spearow - Quick to level, decent stats, has Fly
Pikachu - Bad early on but makes up for it later in type coverage.
NidoranF - Great type coverage when fully evolved, caught early on.
NidoranM - Slower than the Female but a bit stronger. Good coverage, more common
Diglett (+Dugtrio) - Very fast, decent power, easy to find
Mankey - Can be obtained extremely quickly, very helpful for the first few gyms
Abra - Hard to obtain, but extremely fast and powerful with good coverage
Geodude - Extremely easy to obtain, very good power later on
Doduo - Fast, moderately powerful, quick to level up
Staryu - Very fast, good power and great movepool. Easy to train
Mr. Mime - Hard to find, but very good movepool when caught early
Snorlax - Obtained later on, but extremely powerful despite difficulty in catching
Zapdos - Great stats, good movepool, but hard to catch

Mid

Bulbasaur - Obtained a little later than other starters, movepool isn't brilliant
Caterpie - Evolves early but lacks power
Rattata - Obtained easily, but doesn't have much of a movepool
Sandshrew - Not a great movepool, mediocre stats
Clefairy - Very hard to find, difficult to level
Jigglypuff - Hard to train, not much of a movepool
Oddish - Decent movepool, but type coverage isn't great
Psyduck - Difficult to find, movepool is let down by stats
Poliwag - Easy to find, but hard to train and not much of a movepool
Bellsprout - Stats aren't great, and has slow exp gain
Slowpoke - Decent typing, but poor stats and movepool
Gastly - Fast and powerful, but hard to obtain and gained too late
Drowzee - Good movepool, slow to level
Exeggcute - Good typing, movepool and stats, but obtained very late
Rhyhorn - Very good Attack, but slow to level and obtained late
Magikarp - Very difficult to level, and Gyarados is subpar in Yellow
Lapras - Level obtained at is way too low for the area.
Vaporeon - Hard to obtain, good stats
Jolteon - Very good stats, but a bit hard to obtain
Articuno - Difficult to obtain, movepool isn't great

Low

Pidgey - Weak, slow, extremely common
Vulpix - Small movepool, weak, difficult to level
Zubat - Bad typing, very weak, but fast
Paras - Hard to find, hard to level, extremely slow
Venonat - Hard to find, decent movepool, not worth the effort of levelling
Growlithe - Hard to obtain, subpar stats and movepool
Machop - Easy to obtain, movepool lacks coverage and it is slow
Tentacool - Extremely common, but weak and poor coverage
Ponyta - Poor stats and obtained late.
Magnemite - Bad movepool, hard to level
Farfetch'd - Difficult to obtain, not worth the trade since it cannot evolve
Seel - Obtained very late, poor coverage
Grimer - Easy to find, but poor stats and movepool
Shellder - Poor stats, movepool and typing
Onix - Easily obtained, but very weak later on
Krabby - Stats do not match movepool, hard to get
Voltorb - Hard to level and a poor movepool despite good speed
Cubone - Weak and obtained late, movepool isn't great
Hitmonlee - Obtained relatively late at a very low level.
Hitmonchan - Hitmonlee with worse stats
Lickitung - Very hard to find, bad movepool
Chansey - Extremely annoying to obtain, very weak
Tangela - Hard to find, obtained at low levels, poor stats
Kangaskhan - Hard to find, bad movepool, difficult to level
Horsea - Difficult to level, low stats, small movepool
Goldeen - Movepool is poor, stats are decent, but not worth the effort
Scyther - Extremely hard to find, and movepool is bad despite stats
Pinsir - Hard to find, worse than Scyther
Tauros - Extremely hard to find, obtained way too late to be effective
Ditto - lol
Flareon - Bad stats, bad movepool, difficult to get
Porygon - Doesn't evolve, poor stats, obtained at extremely low level
Omanyte - Obtained too late at too low a level
Kabuto - Omanyte with worse stats
Aerodactyl - Omanyte with better movepool
Moltres - Obtained way too late, bad typing, boring movepool
Dratini - Extremely hard to obtain, extremely hard to level, movepool is very small

Not tiered

Weedle
Meowth
Ekans
Jynx
Koffing
Electabuzz
Magmar
Mewtwo
Mew
Click to expand...

Mekkah said:
GOLD/SILVER

High

Chikorita - Starter. Good movepool
Cyndaquil - Starter. Very good stats
Totodile - Starter. Easy to train, good stats later on
Spearow - Easy to obtain, very good stats
Rattata - Easy to obtain, decent movepool
Mareep - Great movepool and good stats. Obtainable fairly early
Wooper - Good stats, easy to train
Gyarados [Event] - Difficult to catch, low-ish level, but good movepool and stats
Drowzee - Good movepool, easy to obtain
Abra - Difficult to obtain but extremely good stats and movepool
Sudowoodo - Obtained early on, decent stats
Machop - Easy to level with good stats
Eevee (Espeon) - Very good stats, obtainable early on, easy to level
Ho-oh [Gold] - Obtained late, but extremely powerful
Lugia [Silver] - Same as Ho-Oh

Mid

Pidgey - Easy to get, not as strong as Spearow
Hoothoot - Better movepool, but worse stats than Spearow
Sentret - Easy to get, poor stats
Caterpie - Evolves very fast, but poor movepool
Geodude - Good stats, but hard to level later on
Jigglypuff - Bad stats and movepool, but easy to get
Sandshrew - Poor stats, decent movepool
Gastly - Very good stats, but difficult to level early on
Bellsprout - Easy to find, but poor stats
Poliwag - Decent stats, but hard to level
Magikarp - Easy to find, extremely hard to level, but decent later on
Slowpoke - Easy to find, hard to level, moderate stats
Oddish - Poor stats and movepool, but easy to train
NidoranF - Good movepool, moderate stats
NidoranM - Slightly better than the Female
Snubbull - Moderate stats, moderate movepool. Nothing special
Mankey - Slightly hard to obtain, decent stats and movepool, however.
Miltank - Hard to obtain, but good stats and movepool
Magmar - Obtained a little late, bad stats, but good movepool
Jynx - Obtained very late, but good movepool and decent stats
Tentacool - Extremely easy to find, but often low levelled and difficult to train
Chinchou - Hard to find, but good stats, movepool and typing
Doduo - Hard to find, but decent stats
Lapras - Very hard to obtain, decent stats
Snorlax - Hard to obtain, but good stats
Suicune - Very hard to obtain, but very good stats and movepool
Ho-oh [Silver] - Obtained extremely late, but still the most powerful
Lugia [Gold] - See above

Low

Pikachu - Hard to get, poor movepool
Weedle - Evolves early but stats and movepool are dismal
Ledyba - Stats are poor and difficult to level
Spinarak - Poor stats, poor movepool
Zubat - Fast and common, but weak with bad movepool
Clefairy - Extremely hard to get, not worth the effort
Togepi - Egg hatches too late, stats are poor
Ekans - Stats aren't great, movepool is worse
Dunsparce - Stats are horrible, difficult to train
Unown - Absolutely terrible in all aspects
Onix - Weak, hard to evolve, poor movepool
Hoppip - Very weak, hard to train
Paras - Slow, poor movepool, difficult to train
Goldeen - Weak, poor movepool, outclassed by others
Ditto - lol
Pineco - Weak, poor movepool
Yanma - Very weak and hard to obtain
Sunkern - Extremely weak and nearly impossible to train
Exeggcute - Obtained late, hard to obtain
Wobbuffet - Hard to obtain, rubbish movepool
Venonat - Weak, not worth training
Scyther - Hard to obtain, decent stats, but poor movepool and difficult to evolve
Pinsir - Is a worse Scyther
Heracross - Slow, poor movepool, hard to obtain
Koffing - Weak, hard to train
Grimer - Obtained late, poor stats and movepool
Magnemite - Obtained late, decent stats, poor movepool
Voltorb - Weak, poor movepool, hard to find
Aipom - Hard to obtain, poor stats
Vulpix - Hard to obtain, poor movepool
Growlithe - Poor stats and movepool, not worth training
Stantler - Weak, obtained late, generally outclassed by then
Marill - Weak, bad movepool, hard to train
Diglett - Weak, poor movepool, hard to obtain
Meowth - Weak but fast, obtained late. Difficult to train
Psyduck - Hard to obtain, difficult to train, poor movepool early on
Tyrogue - Very difficult to obtain, annoying to evolve into the correct form
Girafarig - Very difficult to obtain, poor stats
Tauros - Obtained late, poor movepool
Electabuzz - Obtained very late, poor stats
Mr. Mime - Obtained very late, good movepool but dismal stats
Smeargle - Obtained extremely late, stats aren't great, and it is hard to get the perfect movepool
Farfetch'd - Difficult to obtain, outclassed by most other fliers
Natu - Weak, obtained very late
Qwilfish - Very poor stats and movepool
Krabby - Movepool is bad, slow, hard to find
Shuckle - Slow, horrible attack, horrible movepool, not worth using
Staryu - Extremely powerful, but difficult to evolve
Shellder - Obtained late, weak and bad movepool
Corsola - Difficult to obtain, poor stats
Remoraid - Difficult to obtain, difficult to train
Seel - See Shellder
Lickitung - Too late to be useful, poor stats anyway
Tangela - See Lickitung
Eevee (Jolteon) - Difficult to obtain, and poor movepool but good stats
Eevee (Vaporeon) - Difficult to obtain, movepool is poor and stats are subpar
Eevee (Flareon) - Difficult to obtain, movepool and stats are poor
Eevee (Umbreon) - Outclassed by Espeon, movepool still isn't great
Horsea - Hard to find, hard to train, movepool is poor
Gligar - Stats are poor, obtained at a low level
Delibird - Weak, poor movepool, obtained too late
Swinub - Hard to train, poor movepool
Teddiursa - Hard to train, slow, poor movepool
Phanpy - Obtained late, poor movepool
Mantine - Weak, bad movepool, hard to catch
Skarmory - Slow, weak, poor movepool
Ponyta - Obtained late, very poor in all regards
Cubone - Weak, obtained very late
Kangaskhan - Obtained extremely late and hard to train
Rhyhorn - See Kangashkan
Murkrow - Weak, poor movepool
Slugma - Very weak, very slow, bad typing
Sneasel - Very hard to find, weak
Misdreavus - Extremely hard to find, low stats
Porygon - Very difficult to obtain, poor stats
Chansey - Very difficult to obtain, difficult to train
Aerodactyl - Obtained extremely late.
Raikou - Too much effort required
Entei - See above
Dratini - Obtained too late, extremely hard to train
Larvitar - See Dratini

N/A
Kabuto
Omanyte
Bulbasaur
Charmander
Squirtle
Articuno
Zapdos
Moltres
Mewtwo
Mew
Celebi
Click to expand...

Mekkah said:
Crystal changes:
Poliwag: Mid -> High (obtainable much much earlier)
Suicune: Mid- > High (event now)
Staryu: Low -> Mid (Water Stone available much earlier)
Exeggcute: Low -> Mid (Leaf Stone available much earlier)
Growlithe: Low -> High (available much earlier AND Firestone available much earlier)
Eevee (Vaporeon): Low -> Mid (Water Stone available much earlier + Surf HM, other Eeveelutions don't have sufficient movepools to become better)
Ho-oh: to Low, since you need to hunt down Raikou and Entei AND do the sidequest only to obtain it post-Elite Four
Lugia: same as Gold Lugia, AKA Mid
And some Pokemon are unavailable in Crystal.

CRYSTAL

High

Chikorita - Starter, good movepool
Cyndaquil - Starter, good stats, good typing
Totodile - Starter, decent stats and movepool
Spearow - Easy to obtain, easy to train, decent power
Rattata - Easy to obtain, good movepool
Poliwag - Relatively easy to obtain, great stats later on
Wooper - Easy to train, great typing
Gyarados [Event] - Obtained late, but good power and movepool
Drowzee - Relatively early, decent movepool
Growlithe - Easier to evolve with decent stats
Abra - Hard to obtain but very good stats and movepool
Sudowoodo - Easy to encounter, decent stats
Machop - Easy to train, good stats and movepool
Eevee (Espeon) - Great stats and movepool, obtained early
Suicune - Guaranteed encounter, great stats

Mid

Pidgey - Easy to obtain, but weak later on
Hoothoot - Good movepool, but weak and difficult to obtain (time restraints)
Sentret - Easy to obtain, but very weak
Caterpie - Evolves fast, but weak later on
Geodude - Decent stats, but difficult to train
Jigglypuff - Easy to obtain, decent movepool but poor stats
Sandshrew - Somewhat hard to obtain and poor movepool
Gastly - Obtained early on, good stats and movepool but hard to train
Bellsprout - Easy to obtain, decent movepool but poor stats
Magikarp - Hard to train, but good stats later on
Slowpoke - Easy to catch, difficult to train but good stats
Oddish - Easy to catch, but weak and hard to train
Exeggcute - Obtained a little late, despite good typing and stats
NidoranF - Easy to obtain, but stats aren't the best and needs TMs to reach full potential
NidoranM - Slightly better stats than NidoranF
Snubbull - Weak later on, despite being easy to train
Mankey - Easy to train, obtained easily, but weak later on
Miltank - Obtained late, no real power
Magmar - Relatively easy to obtain, but poor movepool
Jynx - Obtained very late, but decent movepool
Tentacool - Easy to obtain, but poor movepool
Staryu - Obtained somewhat late, but good stats and movepool
Chinchou - Hard to get, but good typing and movepool
Doduo - Difficult to train and has worse stats than other birds
Eevee (Vaporeon) - Obtained early, but poor movepool
Lapras - Difficult to obtain, low levelled
Snorlax - Obtained late, very hard to train
Lugia - Obtained extremely late, but very powerful

Low

Pikachu - Difficult to obtain, poor movepool
Weedle - Evolves fast but terrible stats
Ledyba - Poor stats and typing
Spinarak - Difficult to train, weak later on
Zubat - Easy to obtain, but difficult to train
Clefairy - Very rare, not worth the effort
Togepi - Egg hatched at a low level, poor stats
Ekans - Easy to obtain, but poor stats and movepool
Dunsparce - Extremely weak
Unown - Horrible stats and movepool
Onix - Weak later on, difficult to get to full potential
Hoppip - Extremely weak with poor movepool
Paras - Very weak and hard to train
Goldeen - Hard to train, stats are poor
Ditto - lol
Pineco - Poor stats, poor movepool. Rare
Yanma - Hard to obtain, weak later on
Sunkern - Extremely hard to train, stats are poor at the end anyway
Wobbuffet - Poor movepool and stats
Venonat - Hard to train, poor typing and stats
Scyther - Difficult to obtain, difficult to get to full power, movepool isn't great
Pinsir - Weaker Scyther
Heracross - Rare, poor movepool
Koffing - Easy to obtain but difficult to train
Grimer - Poor stats and movepool
Magnemite - Obtained late, bag typing and stats
Voltorb - Difficult to train, obtained late
Aipom - Rare, very low stats
Stantler - Weak, difficult to train, decent movepool
Marill - Rare, difficult to train, poor stats
Diglett - Decent stats, but poor movepool and hard to obtain
Meowth - Obtained relatively late, poor movepool
Psyduck - Difficult to train, poor stats later on
Tyrogue - Extremely hard to obtain, difficult to evolve correctly
Tauros - Obtained late, poor movepool
Electabuzz - Obtained very late, poor movepool
Mr. Mime - Extremely hard to obtain, not worth using
Smeargle - Very hard to find, Difficult to get good movepool
Farfetch'd - Hard to find, poor stats
Natu - Extremely hard to find, poor movepool and stats
Qwilfish - Very poor stats and movepool
Krabby - Obtained late, often low-levelled
Shuckle - Extremely weak, horrible movepool, and very, very, rare
Shellder - Obtained late, poor stats
Corsola - Rare, poor movepool
Seel - See Shellder
Lickitung - Difficult to obtain, poor stats
Tangela - Obtained late, poor stats and movepool
Eevee (Jolteon) - Very good stats, but poor movepool and difficult to evolve
Eevee (Flareon) - See Jolteon with poor stats
Eevee (Umbreon) - Decent stats, but horrible movepool
Horsea - Hard to obtain, poor stats and movepool until final, difficult evolution
Gligar - Rare, obtained late, very poor stats
Delibird - Obtained very late, poor stats and typing, worse movepool
Swinub - Obtained very late, difficult to train, poor stats
Teddiursa - Poor stats, difficult to train, movepool doesn't improve
Phanpy - Decent stats, but poor movepool without TMs or breeding
Mantine - Poor stats, hard to find, poor movepool
Skarmory - Hard to obtain, poor stats
Ponyta - Very poor stats and movepool
Cubone - Difficult to obtain and train, poor stats
Kangaskhan - Obtained very late, poor movepool
Rhyhorn - Difficult to find and train, has poor stats and movepool.
Murkrow - Hard to obtain, poor stats
Slugma - Obtained late, poor stats and movepool
Sneasel - Very rare, poor movepool
Misdreavus - Obtained extremely late, poor movepool
Porygon - Very hard to obtain, poor stats
Chansey - Obtained late, poor stats, difficult to train
Aerodactyl - Extremely hard to obtain, movepool is poor without TMs
Raikou - Extremely hard to find
Entei - See Raikou
Dratini - Obtained very late, very low level, very hard to train. Poor movepool
Larvitar - Obtained extremely late, very low level, very hard to train
Ho-oh - So difficult to obtain it is not worth it

N/A
Mareep
Vulpix
Girafarig
Remoraid
Kabuto
Omanyte
Bulbasaur
Charmander
Squirtle
Articuno
Zapdos
Moltres
Mewtwo
Mew
Celebi
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