Oh no, it's a Lucario counter ... April fools!

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Major changes to the Metagame in April-May:
- Scarf Tyranitar is the standard Tyranitar set
- Magicarp is the 7th most used lead in Ubers
- Latias was made Uber

In OU basically the rise in scarf tar has lead to many changes in the Metagame, such as a rise Machamp, Scizor and walls e.g. Skarmory and Gliscor. While a fall in Rotom/Latias, obviously this is mainly due to scarf-tar, and shows that people are becoming much more wary of him. This also means the Metagame is becoming more bulky again.

Magicarp was seriously the 7th most used lead in Ubers this mounth. He was someone's brilliant idea of an april fools joke, where a group of people used lead magicarp in matches and then quit (I think to prove that sorting tier’s by usage was flawed).

Latias is now uber, so my team needs to change around, all suggestions are welcome. But more importantly, this is gonna have a huge affect on the metagame. Latias' role on many teams just can't be filled by another pokemon and means team's are going to be completely different.

Thought Process:
Now from this it’s clear to see that taking advantage of scarf-tar is going to be an effective strategy in this new metagame shift. Skarmory can provide spikes, which limit the times that Tyranitar and Scizor can switch in. Lucario 4 times resist both of Tyranitar’s stab attacks. Lucario also appreciates the fall in Rotom usage. So I centred my team on these two pokemon:

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The next choice was obviously a spin blocker, someone who can scare off the 3 OU rapid spinners: Starmie, Forretress and Tentacruel, and fry magicarp if he moved down to OU. Obviously Rotom-H:
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I was thinking of weaknesses and resistances, and I decided a dragon would really suit the team. I wanted to be attacking on the special side and at first I used specs-mence, but then I realised Latias was just a better version as she isn't weak to SR:
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I wanted someone who can draw in Gliscor and possibly take it out. Obviously someone who can take special hits was on my mind and after a lot of thinking, Tyranitar filled this role very nicely:
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Now the final member took ages to fit in to the team, I had been using mix Tyranitar as a lead previously (fairly unsuccessfully, I will add). I wanted SR, I wanted a ground type to absorb thunder-wave and resist fire would also be good. But I had never liked leading with a wall, however in the end I used swampert, and realised it was perfect for the team:
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I came up with the concept of this team about 5 weeks ago, getting the right team members and testing it out etc has taken it’s time. At one point I nearly scraped it. But I kept trying, and in the end I think I’ve got the right team members, the right move sets and I’m now happy with the team and I feel I can put it up for rating.


Oh no, it's a Lucario counter ... April fools!
Changes in Blue:


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Swampert (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Speed
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Speed)
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock
- Roar

Swampert is probably the most reliable stealth rocker in the game. His main niche as a lead is that he is one of the few leads that can be used mid/late game, due his great bulk and awesome typing. As with most teams, it took ages to get the right lead, a lot of play-testing and I decided a bulky lead was the way to go. I chose a female gender as most people don't bother changing the gender and so they will take advantage of the male's by using rivalry or using attract. I chose roar thanks to snorlaxe's suggestion becuase it helps rack up spikes damage. Here is what I do against the top ten OU leads (for April):

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Azelf: Switch to Tyranitar, I can set up rocks later.
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Aerodactyl: 2hko with ice beam and set up rocks later
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Swampert: I stealth rock (SR), and then EQ battle it, due to my 4 speed ev’s I will win.
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Metagross: I SR, then Switch/Protect/EQ, depending on how long the opponent takes to decide i.e. instant = explosion; 3 seconds = switch; any longer is unreliable and I Earthquake.
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Jirachi: I set up stealth rock, scarf Swampert is not that bad, and scarfless lead Jirachi is almost useless against my team.
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Infernape: I stealth rock, it won’t OHKO me grass knot (if he has it). I then protect for leftovers recovery and go to Latias.
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Machamp: Earthquake, then switch to Rotom, then Switch to Skarmory and brave bird.
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Ninjask: Stealth rock, then switch to Skarmory and whirlwind
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Roserade: Go to Skarmory, if they sleep me, then I switch to Tyranitar, then to Latias and out speed for the KO before it gets toxic spikes up. Plan B, If they leafstorm the sp.atk drop lets Skarmory take a hp fire and I can brave bird it/fall asleep and carry out plan A.
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Tyranitar: I stealth rock, then ice beam it, just in case it counters, and it will hit a switch in trying to resist EQ/Waterfall. Then I EQ if it stays in.

Swampert helps Lucario sweep by setting up stealth rock which aids any sweeper and makes Zapdos, Salamence and Gyrados less of a threat. He can also take on scarf Heatran and Magnezone who threaten Lucario.

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Skarmory (F) @ Shed shell
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP/252 SDef/4 speed
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Spikes
- Whirlwind

Skarmory has great synergy with Swampert making it very easy for me to get both hazards up early in a match. I chose special defensive Skarmory, as I found I was switching her into a lot of draco meteors. I’m using an impish nature, as she can take advantage of her many resistances and set up spikes while taking hits from the physical or special side. Skarmory can also phaze quite effectively and keep threats like cursealax and crocune at bay until the end of the match, as well as racking up spike damage with the move whirlwind.

Skarmory helps Lucario by setting up spikes, which means after a sword dance he can OHKO physical walls like the mighty Hippowdon. Skarmory can also whirlwind to rack up hazard damage on salamence, gyrados, zapdos, Scizor and Tyranitar so that an SD boosted extreme speed will take them out.

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Rotom-h @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 sp.atk/ 44 defence/212 speed
Timid nature (+Speed, -Atk)
- Wil o wisp
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Pain Split

The teams reserve member. I generally keep Rotom hidden until the late game, as he is my back up pokemon. His ghost type is very useful to the team. Firstly, he can block rapid spin, and due to his offensive spread, this is not crucial as my entry hazards are set up by bulky pokemon, so they can easily set them up again. He also is immune to dynamic punch from the now popular Machamp. He can also draw in heatran. The ev's let me outspeed gyrados after a dragon dance. Wil o wisp is there for Tyranitar and scizor trying to pursuit me. Although scarf-tar is still a problem. Pain split offers some form of recovery.

Rotom-H helps Lucario by blocking rapid spin, and is semi-pursuit bait, which makes it easier for Lucario to set up.

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Latias (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Speed/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Speed, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Trick
- Surf
- Thunderbolt

This is my zero skill Latias. If they are gonna die to surf, use surf because it's super effective on tyranitar. If they are gonna switch use Dracco meteor, why? because they are obviously going to a counter, and a neautral Dracco meteor does more than a super effective surf, and I'm gonna switch out of the counter, as they are likely gonna take me on. So unless they are going to Heatran or Skarmory, dracco meteor is more powerful for hitting and running. Trick is there for late game stat uppers such as Jirachi and Suicune, it also helpful for crippling walls, making it easier for lucario to set up. To show the power of this Latias' dracco meteor here are some calculations (although I've recently found there is confusion between where the item boost goes slightly affecting the result):

Dracco meteor vs standard smogon 252hp/252defence Bold Blissey:
36% - 43% with 3 layers of spikes and stealth rock adding another 37.5% damage. Leftovers is cancelled out by sandstorm.
73.5% - 80.5% in one turn of damage. The budding mathematician's out there will notice there is a chance for a 2hko, if I get near max damage both times. At the very least Blissey is forced to softboil up = a free switch to tyranitar.

Dracco meteor vs Max Hp tyranitar:
56% - 66% with stealth rock and 1 layer of spikes this is a garunteed 2HKO. With 3 layers of spikes + SR this is a chance to OHKO

Dracco meteor vs 248 hp Scizor:
59% - 69% so with stealth rock it's a garunteed 2hko (minimum of 101%) just makes the 2hko.

So it's not really pursuit bait, unlike scarf latias who they switch in on with ease. It’s also useful on a primarily physical team, to have some monstrous sp.atk to smash through physical walls. Dragon pulse is used over trick, because Rotom-H has trick and dragon pulse can be used to sweep. Thunderbolt OHKO’s Gyrados who likes to set up on Swampert and Skarmory. Choice specs latias can also beat any calm mind Suicune set 1 vs 1, even if it calm minds on the switch, by spamming thunderbolt. It also OHKO's Gyrados' pre-evolution Magicarp and after his recent success in Ubers, this could be very useful if people realise his potential in OU.

Latias is very useful on a sandstorm team, as she resists: water, grass, fire, ground, fighting etc. Which are all attacks aimed at steel, rock and ground types, which enables her to force many switches and rack up more entry hazard damage. Don’t suggest scarf Latias to me, it is the biggest pile of pursuit bait in the metagame.

Latias helps Lucario sweep by having great defensive synergy with him. She also helps him set up as she is pursuit bait, and she draws in special walls like blissey.

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Tyranitar (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP/152 Atk/28 Speed/76 SAtk
Brave nature (+Atk, -Speed)
- Substitute
- Ice Beam
- Focus Punch
- Payback

This set took me ages to come up with. I needed a pokemon that can draw in Gliscor. I had tried choice band aqua tail, but I wanted to switch attacks and I wanted to take advantage of the turn of a switch. I tried DD Tyranitar with some success, but it wasn’t bulky enough for my team needs I needed a set that could set up and take out Gliscor. Setting up was important to me, as I wanted to take advantage of early game pursuit users and lucario/DD-tar would just get walled early in the match.

The idea of using Tyranitar Boah came to me when I remembered an old RMT, and in the comments someone said: "don’t have 88 sp.def on Hippowdon that is for Tyranitar Boah’s ice beam, but Boah is dead in this offensive metagame." That was when banded Tyranitar was used loads and 2hkoed Hippowdon with aqua tail. But now Scarf Tyranitar is the main set, and Hippowdon/Gliscor are happy to switch in.

The rise in scarf-tar means my old Boah from diamond and pearl is back. He takes advantage of the switches scarf Tyranitar forces, and he can take on the walls that like to switch in. This also makes a great switch into mystic gengar for a "revenge Kill" gengar protects, while I sub up, and then I'm safe to payback for the OHKO.

Now the confusing ev’s: 252 hp means I have 101 substitutes, which means blissey can’t break them and it’s a lefties numbers. 76 sp.atk 2hko’s Hippowdon after 2 spikes+ 1 SR and 2 leftovers, it also guarantees the OHKO on Gliscor and means Gliscor can’t roost stall it. 28 speed ev’s will let me out-speed Blissey, so I can sub up before it gets status on me. The rest are dumped into attack to make focus punch and payback deadly. I chose payback over crunch for the OHKO on celebi after 2 spikes + 1 SR and sandstorm cancels out lefties.

He helps Lucario by drawing in Gliscor and Hippowdon and taken them out, as they are the two biggest defensive threats to Luke. He also draws in Scizor and forces spikes damage on it. This is the MVP of the team, once I had back the knack of using Boah, and tricks for keeping a sub up, this guy just dominates. Once he gets a sub up, he causes damage. I supose his nickname Sub-DD-Tar doesn't help the opponent when they try to counter him lol.

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Lucario (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Crunch
- Extremespeed

Lucario is also my priority revenge killer, and I have discovered that threats like non scarf Heatran won’t switch out as everyone fears the sword dance. This means I can easily KO them. The fear of a Lucario sweep essentially gives him the ability shadow tag, which is very useful for taking out a troublesome pokemon.

Obviously his primary use on this team is too sweep, and after my bulky team has drawn in and taken out threats to Lucario, I can then take advantage of my pursuit weak team, and set up for a sweep. I chose crunch for type coverage, accuracy and taking on Celebi who my team does not handle as well as other walls.

Why is Lucario is the perfect sweeper for this team? Because this team lures out and wears down his top OU counters:

Bulky Walls:
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Hippowdon: OHKOed after spikes
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Suicune: OHKOed after spikes
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Forretress: OHKOed after spikes
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Gyrados: loves to switch in to Skarmory and Swampert to set up, and after 2 turns of SR is OHKOed by close combat (non bulky ones are OHKOed after Stealth rock)
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Celebi: spikes guarantee the OHKO with crunch
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Gliscor: Lured in by Tyranitar, Skarmory and Rotom. Taken out by Latias, Tyranitar, Swampert.

Faster Threats:
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Salamence: Stealth rock + life orb will wear him into extreme speed range
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Jirachi: Spikes can get her into extreme speed range, Tyranitar/latias lures her in, Swampert, Rotom and Skarmory counter with ease
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Scarf Heatran: Worn down by spikes, Rotom and Skarm lure him in, Tyranitar, Latias and Swampert take him out
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Gengar: Lured in by Skarm, and Rotom, taken out by Swampert, Latias and if it's the mystic set then Tyranitar.
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Scarf Tyranitar: Worn down by spikes. Lured in by Latias, Rotom and Tyranitar, Taken out by Swampert, Latias, Tyranitar (Skarm forces it out).
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Rotom: Lured out by Skarmory, Latias and Rotom. Taken out by Tyranitar, Latias, Rotom and Swampert.
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Offensive Suicune: lured out by latias and rotom locked into the wrong move, and also will try to set up on swampert and Tyranitar. Offensive Suicune loves to comes out early game and cause havoc. The problem is knowing if she out speeds me or not as Bulky versions take an extreme speed with ease. Even with SR + Spikes an extreme speed is not guaranteed to OHKO Suicune.

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Well, this is the end of my RMT
Thanks for reading and please rate:


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Solid team. I don't really see any flaws, just something that could be a bit better. I always choose Shed Shell on my Skarmories because of Magnezone, and Skarm won't be doing much good after it's trapped and killed and only got one layer of Spikes out.
 
I usually prefer Leftovers on Skarmory, but I think Shed Shell would be a better idea here. Spikes is critical to most facets of your team, so you really don't want Skarm trapped, even moreso then what you lose in walling capability with Lefties.
 
Hi george,

Cool team. I think that it is a little bit overkill to use two Pokemon who are such easy Pursuit bait on your team. While it's obviously a good strategy so that Lucario can better set up a sweep, when you have two easy Pursuit bait mons, stuff like TTar can come in all day and easily rack up two swift kills on your team. Even though Lucario can potentially set a sweep from it, something else like Gengar may just come in immediately after. My main solution for this would be to change up your Rotom-H set a bit to make it more defensive. While Choice Scarf Rotom-H is good here, with a more defensive build you can counter Lucario just as easily (practically), and still also counter DDDos. Try:

Rotom-H @ Leftovers | Levitate
Timid | 252 HP | 44 Def | 212 Spe
Thunderbolt | Shadow Ball | Overheat | Will-O-Wisp

Similar to what you're running now, but with a more defensive spread and Will-O-Wisp. The EVs allow you to outspeed Adamant Lucario, and then OHKO it with Overheat. Will-O-Wisp is used so that ScarfTar doesn't completely shit on Rotom, and is helpful in general for crippling stuff.

If you take my advice on Rotom, then I think it would be beneficial to change Dragon Pulse to Trick on your Latias. No matter on whether or not you decide to take my advice, your team needs a solid Trick user. Otherwise things like Calm Mind Wish Jirachi can just come in all day, and you'll have no way of stopping it once it sets up. It also gives you a good way of stopping Calm Mind Suicune, who looks like it could be a pest for your team to take on (particularly defensive ones).

I don't think that Protect is so necessary on Swampert anymore. From my personal experience, leads like Azelf and Metagross no longer like to immediately Explode once they lay down Rocks, and so you are probably safe to run another move in place of Protect. Besides, you have Rotom-H to absorb any potential Explosions. Instead of Protect, I think that you could try your hand at Roar. It is great for early to mid-game scouting, and works wonderfully well when used in tandem with all of the Spikes that your team likes to lay.

Great team, and good luck!
 
Rotom might do well with Will-o-wisp, as Overheat isn't necessary against many opponents. Also, Lucario could use Bullet Punch over Extremespeed to fare better against Gengar and Scarf Tyranitar (which could pursuit a pokemon, switch out, and come in to threaten again).
 
Ok a few things I just wanna know 1 if you run -Speed Nature why do you give them Speed EVs like Swampert and Ttar in my opinion if you want speed don't drop the speed to begin with 2 Skarm is Impish but only has 4 Def EVs why not just give it +spD Nature 3 (problems) BulkyGara with Taunt and DD can come in on Skarm DD Taunt DD and cause a lot of problems without max speed on Rotom he can OHKO before Rotom moves. If you're planning on sweeping with Lucario use CM Latias as it brings in Scarf Ttar when it's locked onto Pursuit you can bring in Lucario SD and sweep or predict a counter it's a good team just weird stuff here and there
 
Seems like a pretty solid team. The only recommendation I have it to run Grass Knot > Dragon Pulse on Latias. That way, if you can predict a switch into Ttar, you'll have a chance to 2hko it without losing a pokemon.
 
Ok a few things I just wanna know 1 if you run -Speed Nature why do you give them Speed EVs like Swampert and Ttar in my opinion if you want speed don't drop the speed to begin with 2 Skarm is Impish but only has 4 Def EVs why not just give it +spD Nature 3 (problems) BulkyGara with Taunt and DD can come in on Skarm DD Taunt DD and cause a lot of problems without max speed on Rotom he can OHKO before Rotom moves. If you're planning on sweeping with Lucario use CM Latias as it brings in Scarf Ttar when it's locked onto Pursuit you can bring in Lucario SD and sweep or predict a counter it's a good team just weird stuff here and there

-Speed Tar, but with those Speed EVs, can outrun Blissey. This is important because it allows you to set up a Substitute that cannot be broken by one Seismic Toss on it before it can Thunder Wave and therefor cripple you. You could outrun it with a neutral nature, no EVs, but a + nature gives more than 28 EVs, so a -Speed + X nature with 28 Speed EVs is more efficient.

The 4 Speed EVs on Swampert are there, I assume, because their leftovers. It allows him to outspeed other Swampert who do not put their leftover EVs in speed. Since 4 EVs do practically nothing in Sp. DEF, this is a smart move.

252 HP/252 Sp. DEF Impish is the standard spread for Specially Defensive Skarm. This gives it very balanced 334 HP/239 Sp. DEF defenses, while the Impish nature gives Skarm's defense a boost enough for it to also function as a good physical wall with 348 Defense. The one thing I would recommend is moving the 4 Leftover EVs from Defense to Speed. 4 Defense doesn't cause you to take significantly less damage from anything, but 4 speed can allow you to outspeed other Skarmory, base 70s that do not invest in speed and monsters who look to outspeed no speed invested Skarmory but no more. Although that's rare nowadays, since standard Skarm runs 16 Speed.

His current Rotom spread allows him to outspeed all non-Jolly Gyarados after one Dragon Dance and Jolly Bulky DDos after one Dragon Dance. However, he may wish to invest 216 Speed instead of 192 Speed. With 216 Speed, he outspeeds max speed Jolly Gyarados after one Dragon Dance, allowing him to kill any and all Gyarados with minimum speed investment.

CM Latias and Specs Latias both bring in Scarftar. However, CM Latias may prove to be a good idea, specifically a Defensive CM Latias with Reflect. You can Reflect on the switch, then see what they do: Crunch does 45% - 52.9% to you, for example, so you can just use Recover. The Tyranitar will almost assuredly stay in trying to stall you out, where you switch to Lucario, who behind a Reflect takes a lulzy 7.8% - 9.3% from Crunch. If it uses Pursuit on the Latias, then it's only doing 22.2% - 27% when you don't switch. So you can either Calm Mind up for a secondary sweep in Latias, most notably if you think they WILL switch, or go to Lucario if you think they'll stay in: 22.2% - 27% then 45% - 52.9% does a total of 57.2% - 69.9%, which means you are never KO'd switching out of a Pursuit after one Pursuit, Rocks or no Rocks. If you Recovered the first hit like you should, then you will have taken 45% - 52.9%, which allows you to come in later.

The set would be Calm Mind/Recover/Dragon Pulse/Reflect with 128 HP, 128 Sp. ATK and 252 Speed EVs, by the way. A Timid nature with Leftovers as the item.
 
The biggest problem with this team is the Pursuit weakness. As mentioned already, you're basically handing two of your Pokemon to Scarf Tyranitar for free. Definitely change Rotom-H to a RestTalking variant. Not only does it give you a status absorber, which you currently do not have, but also allows you not to be completely Pursuit bait by crippling incoming Tyranitar with Will-O-Wisp. Overheat is not exactly necessary because Thunderbolt will 3HKO Forretress at max, with a possibility of 2HKO'ing depending on its EV spread.
 
First of all, I've re-edited the text and given it a presentation update. But I'm not a creative or arty person, so what do people think? does it like good?

Now onto the rates, I'm trying to go through every comment, so if I don't mention your comment, I have still read it, just forgotten to reply to it:

@ Starbuck and Pratty, cheers, I always hated loosing Skarm.

@ Snorlaxe, I've tested the Rotom-h and I have discovered it's just as much bait for tyranitar, and it has even less sp.atk while scarf rotom is my only poke that outspeeds scarf heatran, starmie, latias, gengar, weavile, jolteon, aerodactly, azelf etc. Roar on swampert is a great suggestion, of course I have rotom-h for explosions another ghost trick.

@Giganija, jolly lucario misses out on many OHKO's including hippowdon, and his extreme speed is less powerful for revenge killing and sweeping.

@ Phantom IV, overheat OHKO's scizor, forretress, magnezone, metagross etc. who are all threats to my team.

@ Rat: his movesets are really different to myne and if you wan't to get picky this is very simular to my orriginal team, except I had gengar and starmie over rotom and latias.

@ MedicMarines: Pratty mentioned the ev's and stuff to you. As for Gyrados, I don't use Skarmory to counter it, and I never wirlwind if it's holding leftovers. Also Rotom-H out speeds gyrados after a dragon dance. Latias can take in move apart from ice fang. Swampert can bater it down with ice beam and Skarmory can batter it down with brave bird. Lucario can extreme speed Gyrados on low health.

@sceptile, dracco meteor 2hko/1hko's so I'm not too worried, I've added the calcs into the thread

@ Twist of fate, I don't have a status absorber, but Skarmory takes sleep and toxic, swampert takes thunderwave and laitas/rotom take burn. While Tyranitar has substitute which blocks status from slower threats like dusknoir and Blissey.

@ Pratty, cheers for explaining that, yea you got all the reasons right. Well on skarm the 4 speed ev's get little use, as she rarely faces other skarms, due to my fear of them taunting me and vice versa. But I chose it anyway, at the very least it means I get to wirlwind before them. I use those rotom ev's as well. Also if you are checking my calculations, which I'm fairly sure you will, can you PM them to me if their wrong, cheers.

Now onto this whole pursuit weakness thing, I agree it's an issue. Non scarf rotom has been tested, and is not the solution, I need someone faster than life orb gengar, other latias, starmie etc. The defensive latias is cool, but why reflect on the switch to tyranitar, when I can OHKO it a specs draco meteor. Why take a turn to set up a calm mind, when I can just fire a specs boosted dragon pulses off the bat.

Rotom-h needs to stay scarfed I feel. But if people still think pursuit is an issue, then can I have some other suggestions for latias. I've been considering a mystic latias set simular to the gengar, what do people think. I have seen other threads were people have had scarf Rotom + scarf latias, and no one has mentioned pursuit bait too them. The other thing is after 2 turns of pursuiting Latias + Rotom. Assuming I have all my hazards up, the pursuiter e.g. tyranitar will have taken 75% damage just from entry hazards, and will be unable to switch in again.

EDIT: Thanks for all the rates
 
Presentation is awesome.

I just think that scarf Rotom is just too risky in this team. Looking at the in depth Rotom stats Scarf Rotom has taken a huge hit in popularity. You say that you use Rotom late gaem. What happens if your opponient has a rapid spinner. You are forced to bring Rotom out which bring T-tar out to trap you. Once Rotom is dead your team has slighly more trouble as it is relient on entry hazard damage. Also I would be careful when you say that Lucario OHKO's with spikes. Suicune can outspeed and I don't think that Extreme speed can KO. (correct me if I am wrong)

I sugest a Spiritomb or a rest talk rotom as they can spin block much better than your current one.
Spiritomb can wall machamp and burn threats however is not vulnerabel to Pursuit. Sleep talker Rotom has more bulk than your current Rotom and can burn T-tar to make it less of a threat.
Bullet Punch over Extreme SPeed or Crunch is also a good option as it means that you can set up on T-tars pursuit and not worry that T-tar can revenge you next switch in. Bullet Punch also handles Gengar which is a prominant threat to Lucario.

Thats all I guess

Have a Nice Day!
 
Now onto this whole pursuit weakness thing, I agree it's an issue. Non scarf rotom has been tested, and is not the solution, I need someone faster than life orb gengar, other latias, starmie etc. The defensive latias is cool, but why reflect on the switch to tyranitar, when I can OHKO it a specs draco meteor. Why take a turn to set up a calm mind, when I can just fire a specs boosted dragon pulses off the bat.

Specs Draco Meteor vs. Standard Scarftar: 59.6% - 70.2%

You will never OHKO it with a Specs Draco Meteor.

-2 Specs Draco Meteor vs. Standard Scarftar: 29.8% - 35.4%

So you do 87.4% - 105.6% over two turns.

Standard Scarftar's Pursuit vs. Switching Latias: 97.4% - 115.2%

OHKO'd if you switch, and...

Standard Scarftar's Pursuit vs. Switching Larias: 49.7% - 58.3%

2HKO'd no matter what, factoring in Sandstorm, if you stay in. Don'y forget, Scarftar outspeeds you.

Basically, you can majorly dent T-Tar, but only if it switches in to you. A Scarftar that revenges you will always take minimal damage and kill you, most likely.

Your Latias Draco Meteor calcs are flawed because you forgot to take into account your Sp. ATK goes down two after using Draco Meteor once.

Specs Latias Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP Scizor: 53.4% - 63%

-2 Specs Latias Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP Scizor: 26.5% - 31.5%

So you actually do 79.9% - 94.5% over two turns. You have to roll near max damage each hit to 2HKO, in addition to not missing with either Draco Meteor. This also assumes that Scizor will switch into you, while Scizor usually functions as a Latias Revenge Killer in my experience...

Scizor does...

Standard CB Scizor's Pursuit vs. Switching Latias: 104% - 122.5%

Standard CB Scizor's Pursuit vs. Non-Switching Latias: 78.1% - 92.1%

Note that Scizor has a chance to OHKO you after Rocks regardless of you switching. In fact, Scizor COULD switch in to your Draco Meteor and use Pursuit for a possible OHKO. This is especially true if you've taken any residual damage aside from Stealth Rocks.

Specs Draco Meteor vs. Standard Bold Blissey: 32.9% - 38.8%

-2 Specs Draco Meteor vs. Standard Bold Blissey: 16.5% - 19.5%

49.4% - 58.3% over two turns. Factoring in three layers of Spikes and a layer of Stealth Rocks, 77.4% - 95.3% over two turns. You will never 2HKO Bold Blissey, while it may now Wish. You cannot defeat Blissey. The more popular Calm Blissey takes even less.

Also, Specs Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP Tyranitar is 50.5% - 59.4% actually. -2 is 25.2% - 30%. So 75.7% - 89.4%. You need all three layers of Spikes or two layers of Spikes + SR to 2HKO max HP Tyranitar.

The most bulky Tyranitar, the current fad on the block of 252 HP/252 Sp. DEF CBTar(I've been running it real good and seen it been running around) takes only 39.6% - 47% from Specs Draco and 20% - 23.8% after a -2.

So you won't be usually KOing more Bulky Tyranitars and will never be KOing the most bulky. Scarftar outspeeds and kills you before you kill it.

Specs Dragon Pulse does 38.6% - 45.6% to 4 HP/0 Sp. DEF Scarftar, by the way. So you lose with that, too.

So Yeah. Not sure if these calcs are meaningful, but I figured I'd do them.
 
@ Pratty You have ignored spikes and stealth rock, which I included in my calculations! as it says in the thread! spikes + stealth rock do 37.5% which can make it a OHKO. Like I said in the thread, unless it's revenge killing me. But I've got a kill then and latias will have done her job. Also with Blissey you seem to forget sandstorm goes before leftovers so yes according to your calculations it will. Considering that scizors are now having extra sp.def in order to avoid the 2hko form a specs latias, I don't think they would do that if it was a slim chance, but once again you ignored spikes, which garuntees the OHKO. Considering you said the other day that entry hazards are consired standard in calculations, and considering I said I was including them. I have no idea why you've just ignored them for tyranitar and scizor. Also you are using the smogon damage calculator, which has the order of boosts different. According to all the calculations I have seen the item multiplier for choice specs should be the 2nd last thing done, but smogon does it before the addition, causing the value to be less than it should be. To add to this, the smogon damage calculator does not work to decimal places and rounds at every stage. For some reason the smogon damage calculator consdieres choice specs to be a mod1, when it's actualy a mod2. Also smogon talks about mod3, but mod3 might as well be the same as mod2, as they are all multiplications and divisions after that, and it doesn't matter what order you multiply/divide it gives the same answer. E.g. (4 x 5) / 2 = 10 and (4/2) x 5 = 10

I have found 3 different sources, Marriland, Serebi and Bulbapedia, saying the item should be done last. While smogon says it should be done in a different place.

@ ginganinja, soz for getting your name wrong first time round, I think I'll end up going for the bulky rotom so I can take on scizor aswel.
 
Stealth Rock is standard in all my calculations, Spikes is not. This is because Spikes is rarely as guarenteed as Stealth Rock and Stealth Rock is nearly ubiquitous.

Even with Spikes + Rocks, you will do a max of 101.2% to Scarftar, a very slim OTK chance. Then you have to play the Crunch/Pursuit guessing game. So Yeah.

Spikes does ensure you beat switching Scizor, though, as long as you have at least two layers down(I think).

And you will still never/rarely KO more bulky Tyranitar.

Dunno about if Smogon Calcs undervalues, though. It's always worked fine for me. XD
 
I'm gonna stick with smogon calculator from now on, it's kinda easy to use and I would rather undervalue than overvalue. So smogon it is.

But sad sad news guys. Latias is now UBER. So I was thinking, starmie over latias. What are peoples thoughts?

It seems like were comming to the end of this metagame, and with Latias gone, we will be entering a whole new metagame, no doubt people will stop using scarf tyranitar. Which will lead to a whole load of pursuit weak pokemon becoming popular again. But what adds to this is that Salamance is currently being tested for Uber. If he goes up with Latias gone, the metagame will definately change. Scarfed ice beamers, who will need them anymore.

My thoughts if anyone cared, yes salamence is Uber and dragonite can easilly fill his role so he won't be missed too much. Salamance just has so much versatility and power from both spectrums, his ability intimidate and great typing menas he's not a glass cannon either and I won't be surprised if Salamence is made uber. His decent speed, overpowered attack, overpowered stab moves and access to Dragon dance, combine this with earthquake for near perfect coverage. Is he OU? I don't think so. Just compare him to gyrados, dragonite, kingdra and flygon, 4 solid OU's who are kinda outclassed by salamance in many ways.
 
I'm gonna stick with smogon calculator from now on, it's kinda easy to use and I would rather undervalue than overvalue. So smogon it is.

But sad sad news guys. Latias is now UBER. So I was thinking, starmie over latias. What are peoples thoughts?

Personally, Starmie is the only replacement for Latias in my eyes. It provides the same basic synergy as Latias with less of the Offensive power and defenses. It'll essentially play the same as you're Latias, but with a far more powerful STAB surf to handle Scizor and Tyranitar switch ins. Scizor is too slow to even touch Starmie, and TTar's Pursuit does 68% max if you don't switch out, meaning that you can score the 2HKO without much effort. It's also worht adding that with 2 layers of Spikes and SR, Surf OHKO's on the switch. BoltBeam is a given and you are also given an extra move slot to add Trick which could cripple opposing Blissey's on the switch in.
 
Yea cheer's Valkarie, I buisy testing strarmie with some success, I'm going to keep latias until they update it though. I've also been testing a wide lens Rotom-H the wide lens fakes a choice item, drawing in tyranitar/scizor and obviously they use pursuit and get an 82.5% accurate wil o wisp to the face.
 
I would take the scarf off Rotom-A. Although others have suggested it before, it really is just pursuit bait for Scarf Tyanitar at the moment, which is no good for Lucario because ScarfTar will come out again to revenge-kill it. As for saving rotom for late game, you can't really do this given that Rotom is your spin blocker. If you really want to use the pursuit-bait tactic, you have to run Bullet punch on Lucario over Crunch. However, this then requires you to remove Rotom-A before you can sweep, which is highly difficult. The issue I see with removing the scarf, however, is a weakness to opposing Lucario. You can reduce this weakness by making your own Lucario jolly, or by considering a different replacement for Latias other than Starmie.

As for what set to run if the scarf is removed, I am not entirely sure that the bait set will work. To bluff a scarf properly you will require near-max special attack and a considerable amount of speed, which will highly limit Rotoms ability to check the threats it normally does. This means that Tyranitar could OHKO you with Crunch, or even KO with Pursuit after some prior damage. Maybe try Colbur berry if you do it; it always worked well on my bait Latias. Anyway, I would stick to the standard or Resttalk set, as for spinblocking you need all the durability you can get. Also note that a starmie helps check some of the things that Scarf rotom was for in the first place.

Have you tried taunt skarm by the way? You can still run a specially defensive spread, and just use it over whirlwind. It's a great help against stall, and will let you set up spikes without fear of being set up on yourself. With taunt yourself, you are also less vulnerable to taunt, and as such you do not need Brave bird so much.

Also, I noticed this:

The idea of using Tyranitar Boah came to me when I remembered an old RMT, and in the comments someone said: "don’t have 88 sp.def on Hippowdon that is for Tyranitar Boah’s ice beam, but Boah is dead in this offensive metagame." That was when banded Tyranitar was used loads and 2hkoed Hippowdon with aqua tail. But now Scarf Tyranitar is the main set, and Hippowdon/Gliscor are happy to switch in.

The rise in scarf-tar means my old Boah from diamond and pearl is back. He takes advantage of the switches scarf Tyranitar forces, and he can take on the walls that like to switch in. This also makes a great switch into mystic gengar for a "revenge Kill" gengar protects, while I sub up, and then I'm safe to payback for the OHKO.

Your Tyranitar is carrying leftovers at the moment, meaning that none of these bluffs will work unless the opponent has not hit you and does not have SR up for some reason, which is unlikely given your Swampert lead. I suppose you could try changing the item, but this may wear Ttar down too quickly.

Good luck.

By the way, with that calc argument above, does the game not round at every stage?
 
@ Valkyries: Starmie has a grass weakness, and much less bulk and less sp.atk. It just means rotom has to be used more and gets pursuited. Flygon would mean I have no trick user and no water resist.

@JC104: You failed to notice the words revenge kill lol. It only works if they havn't seen leftovers yet, which only works if tyranitar comes in for the revenge kill or hasn't previously lost health and ended a turn. But yea it's not a great stratergy. Yea the scarf came off it's been on/off for a while now. I'm still unsure.

@Skippy: might have been me using a variation of this. Im never 100% happy with a team and I'm always adding in changes and things.

If you wanted to know the teams success. I only started with this team recently. I've had exams to revise for, so I've not been using it that much and I peaked at 49th on the shoddy leader board, with a cre of 1507, yesturday. I know I could of got higher, I was still rising,but Latias was banned and I can't fix the wholes in the team, with Latias gone. Which is a shame, I would of liked to get it up high. It dropped back down cus I was half way through a match and then I had to go, so I had to quit. So I'm like 51st now probably.

But I'm gonna start working on new team, probably will include infernape as many teams will be less prepared for him. As his best counter is gone. I'm also gonna make sure it does not rely on salamence, as from the comments I've read he is probably gonna be uber as well.

After heavy playtesting switching around. I don't think the team can be saved. Just cus Latias is now officially Uber. If I do make changes they will be pretty big, and this is rate my team, not make it. Due to the problems with the team I'm probably gonna retire this team and leave it how it is. The last glory would be if it got into the archieve. So if you think it's good then suggest it to SoT. That would be pretty cool. Thanks for reading and thanks for the rates.
 
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