So your saying because a pokemon is versitile that is should be banned from OU? Blissey has a LARGE movepool and I don't hear you saying it should be banned. Same with the other Psedo-legends. Now Mence isn't THE BIGGEST THREAT in the OU meta-game without a stat boost. Metagross can be a big threat without a stat boost as well. I'm pretty sure when you see a Gross, or a Mence, you'll say the exact same thing...Oh shit
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Salamence Theorymonning
- Thread starter SJCrew
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So your saying because a pokemon is versitile that is should be banned from OU? Blissey has a LARGE movepool and I don't hear you saying it should be banned. Same with the other Psedo-legends. Now Mence isn't THE BIGGEST THREAT in the OU meta-game without a stat boost. Metagross can be a big threat without a stat boost as well. I'm pretty sure when you see a Gross, or a Mence, you'll say the exact same thing...Oh shit
And here again you made my point. Building a team of 6 pokes that can 1hko mence and be faster is not always practical. If their not faster they will most likely risk instant death trying to kill it. Scarf flygon only TIES with dd mence so its a pretty bad check. He cant switch into the mix set either in fear of stab draco meteor. And in case you havent realized, weavile and mamoswine SUCK. Running them on your team is a huge handicap and leaves you volnerable to other threats. Neither of them can switch into an attack either.
So your saying a Gyarados setting up a Dragon Dance isn't as much as a threat as a Mence with the same boost? They both have a 4xs weakness, but mence has a prioty weakness, and Gyara doesn't.
No, I'm pretty sure I won't say 'oh shit' if I see a Metagross, because I'm pretty sure it won't use Brick Break, or Fire Blast, or Hydro Pump, or Dragon Pulse, or Dragon Claw on me. You get the point. I'm not saying that JUST because of its huge movepool we should ban it, it's that it's so powerful with its versatility. And sure, Blissey has a huge movepool, but do you see her sweeping teams after one Calm Mind? Or maybe dominating the metagame so much that people have to throw ice attacks on random shit just to hit you hard?
If weavile and Mamoswine suck, then why are they OU? Come on now, they are perfect counters to Mence, Most Weaviles are Sashed and run Ice shard. Most mamo's are used in the beginning where most Ddance mences are too. And like i said before, ANY pokemon that Sets up a Stat Boost is going to be much harder to deal with. You won't be able to switch in pokemon like you could BECAUSE of the stat boost. Also, Iwho doesn't bring one pokemon for dragon types? Really, in this day, your telling me nobody brings atleast one Ice or Dragon Move?
See, I don't think it should work like this. You don't build a team around countering a single pokemon because this will just leave you vulnerable against the others. Mence in Ubers is terrible but Mence in OU is broken.
In order of bolded(ness).
Wow, what a fucking novel concept. Good god, you must be a fucking genius. Thats a hell of a lot easier said than done. Considering Mence can come in on a lot of different pokemon, DD and then destroy teams. Good plan though. -.-
Nobody uses Lead Mence, so I'm not really sure what you are getting at.... its mostly a late-mid game sweeper.
Scarf Flygon speed ties with a +1 mence, and besides, then you are locked into outrage and setup bait for: Agiligross, SD Lucario, Agility Lucario, DD Tar, Scizor, CM Jirachi and others I'm sure I forgot to mention. Nice strategy though. Losing a whole match just so you can set KO mence. Totally not uber.
Blissey has a large movepool, but really, the actual moves it uses are rather limited. You won't see many SubPunch Blisseys around. Metagross and Salamence are not even on the same levels. Metagross is slower than Mence, and can't boost its Attack and Speed with one move.
Thats EXACTLY what were saying. Gyrados is no where near as threatning as mence, and he cant run effective mix sets to get past his counters or buy a free dragon dance. Gyra has hard counters like suicune and vaporeon, and can be revenged by many more pokes, like scarf rotom. Plus he doesnt have room for super effective attacks on ALL the types that resist water (like mence does with dragon).
Can someone back me up on my weavile and mamoswine handicap your team if you run them? Dd mence is a lategame sweaper idk what you are talking about there...people bring dragon and ice moves but good luck finding a poke that can switch in and outspead a +1 mence (dont even say ice shard again)
Does, this also mean, that Dragonite will move up to take up the new role of strong DDancer?
Dragonite has an excellent movepool, better than Gyarados's anyway, it is more bulky overall than Gyarados, and it can provide a support movepool, doing the stall, and support role much better than ole mence
Will Dragonite rise up, just like (you old pokeplayers, describe as the good old days?)
Do you want Dragonite to rise?
Will Dragonite take up the role of Infernape counter, or is it too slow?
Will I finish this sentenc
Dragonite has an excellent movepool, better than Gyarados's anyway, it is more bulky overall than Gyarados, and it can provide a support movepool, doing the stall, and support role much better than ole mence
Will Dragonite rise up, just like (you old pokeplayers, describe as the good old days?)
Do you want Dragonite to rise?
Will Dragonite take up the role of Infernape counter, or is it too slow?
Will I finish this sentenc
this is bloody rediculious, you guys might as well ban every OU pokemon in the game at this rate.
I wonder what runs through the minds of people who try to get pokemon banned, do they ban them because they truely believe they are broken or is it because "they" don't like the pokemon themselves and wish it banned because they can't beat it.
I wonder what runs through the minds of people who try to get pokemon banned, do they ban them because they truely believe they are broken or is it because "they" don't like the pokemon themselves and wish it banned because they can't beat it.
Hello, weak to Brick Break and Fire Blast and neutral to Outrage and Draco Meteor. Great counters you've got there.
There are ways of setting up. here are some standard:
Choice lcoked moves
Threaten out a blissey/skarm with outrage/fire blast
Use intimidate, nice typing, and decent bulk to set up against weaker attackers.
Gimmicks I've seen:
Scarfyawn pert. It seems crazy, but when low on health, yawn as they KO you. They are forced to switch and let mence setup or stay and sleep. When I saw this, I made the smart decision to stay in and KO the mence. My oponnet ragequit.
And he doesn't need dragon dance, he has choice band for massive pwnage with maggy support, and a mixmence set that destroys stall and bulky offense, enough to put him under support charectersistic
I actually think people will use dragonite as a sweeper and kingdra as a wallbreaker. Or the other way around. Flygons the odd one out.
Choice lcoked moves
Threaten out a blissey/skarm with outrage/fire blast
Use intimidate, nice typing, and decent bulk to set up against weaker attackers.
Gimmicks I've seen:
Scarfyawn pert. It seems crazy, but when low on health, yawn as they KO you. They are forced to switch and let mence setup or stay and sleep. When I saw this, I made the smart decision to stay in and KO the mence. My oponnet ragequit.
And he doesn't need dragon dance, he has choice band for massive pwnage with maggy support, and a mixmence set that destroys stall and bulky offense, enough to put him under support charectersistic
I actually think people will use dragonite as a sweeper and kingdra as a wallbreaker. Or the other way around. Flygons the odd one out.
When did mence become faster than Ice shard?
Ice shard
No, its not that we cant beat it. Its that beating it requiers running a crappy poke/strategy that fails more often then not. If you want mence to stay ou, try reading out arguements and responding and not posting theories about what noobs would do. We have solid reasoning as to why mence is uber, you "mence for ou" boys have yet to prove us wrong.
This is why i cant take you seriously. You talk in circles. You have literaly no other arguement except ice shard and ive already shown why it fails. Weavile and mamoswine are crap, and any good player will agree with this.
So you're saying, "oh as long as you have ice shard everything is perfect!" Wrong. You have to revenge Mence if you're going to be using Ice Shard, since you're sure not going to be switching into any attacking moves. If you have to chuck a Pokemon with Ice Shard onto your team for the SOLE PURPOSE of revenging Salamence then he really should be banned to Ubers.
This is easier said than done in my opinion. The uncertainty of what Salamence's set is comes well into play here. A common strategy I see is having DDMence throw Earthquakes and Fire Blasts early game to soften up counters, and this is something a lot of sweepers do. This also creates the illusion of a MixMence, so you can throw your opponent offguard and sweep their team. Furthermore, it's not like Salamence never gets free oppurtunities to switch-in. Intimidate, resistances to Fire, Water and Fighting, and a Ground immunity means that Salamence is more than capable of setting up on numerous attacks.
Ok, I'm going to be a bit blunt here, where the fuck did you get the idea that he was talking about a Lead Salamence? Salamence as a lead is quite frankly terrible, he's wrecked by most suicide leads and bulkier leads can survive a hit and most of them can OHKO. The point he was trying to get across was that most of the examples are only seen as leads.
Scarf Flygon only speed-ties with +1 Salamence. I don't know about you, but I don't want to rely on a 50% chance to kill off a sweeper.
The sheer power of Salamence is much above the level of most physical sweepers in the metagame. Ok, the tied highest base Attack in OU and a 120 base power STAB attack which is only resisted by one type. Yeah, that shouldn't hurt that bad.
You people are so silly with your "absolute" scenarios, nothing is pre determined walking into a battle, you don't know what your opponent has or what they will do, battles are determined by skill, luck and chance, something you people here never seem to look at, all you look at is your silly calculations and "perfect" scenarios.
The fact your just now all of a sudden trying to get it banned is rather silly, heck this whole site is silly, forcing down rules and regulations for a video game that appeals to children!
I honestly wonder what goes through your minds, cause you people have way too much free time on your hands.
1st Smogon Council sounds great. Hopefully this testing process won't take so long
Then go somewhere else if you dont like it. This has nothing to do with mence. You ou boys must be pretty angry to start coughing up arguements like this..
He did make a point, people are only making fun of him on his second statment, but you guys are just setting up perfect scenarios for mence. If you set up a perfect scenario for any pokemon that are going to look so godly.
your the childish one with your overassumptions but don't let me stop you.
Uberiffic said:
I feel inclined to stay because I find this whole thing silly.
This is a fine example of what I call an "absolute" scenario, it sounds like a good arguement on paper, but in a real battle you don't know what's coming which means said paper is useless.
For example I faught a Salamance today with my Tyranitar, I was expecting Earthquake but the Salamance Dragon Danced and guess what happened, one ice beam later and it was dead. (Tyraniboah) and in no way is my team designed to counter Salamance alone, I built my team to handle anything that comes it's way, not just one pokemon.
You are an idiot. Yache mence isn't an "absolute" scenario, but tyraniboah is? most tyranitar sets are choice scarf, which love to lock themselves into earthquake or pursuit
Were not making up perfect senarios. These are cold hard facts. Care to name a made up senario we've mentioned? Other then using a magnezone on the team, but most good players use him.
Its pretty clear your getting mad because you cant come up with a good arguement. If not why talk about the game being childish and us having too much time?
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