Jynx is definitely not common enough for anyone to use crappy pokes like Dewgong, just play intelligently and treat it like a better, prettier venusaur. Edit: And regarding Lapras, you're really better off going with a Curse set over DD.
I think he's one of the few pokemon that can beat Chansey one-on-one because of Encore
And how does Encoring a revenging Sucker Punch work? I thought Encore failed if they hadn't attacked yet, so Sucker Punch would fail but the trick becomes obvious.
I used a CB Raichu to cover one of my teams' weaknesses. I'm not impressed with its bulk, and its speed could easily be better, but firing off CB Volt Tackles feels pretty good, and Static is a nice ability. And a CB Focus Punch, while risky, is so awesome to nail incoming Registeel and Rhyperior with.
Low Kick is a good move to use over Cross Chop. You hit stuff like Donphan and Milotic for the same base power, while hitting Registeel harder. Yeah, you hit other stuff for less power but most of the Pokemon that you would use your Fighting-type move on won't particularly enjoy a +2 Low kick anyway even if it hits for only 80 BP.And people forget about SD Toxicroak which is probably its best set. The problem with it.. it depends on Cross Chop and Stone Edge which means one I will miss at the wrong time and your sweep will be over and you will rage. But damn that thing hits like a truck (if it hits :(). Plus with seemingly everyone using the NP set, a lot of times people send in the wrong counter/wall only to get OHKO'd.
How?? Chansey 3HKOs you with Seismic Toss.
Raichu really needs Encore to make up for it's terrible defenses. With Encore, it can hold momentum for your team by forcing things trying to set up or recover in their tracks. Either NP or Sub Punch can take advantage of Encore. If you're not going with Encore, you should probably use Mismagius.
- First, you assume a +2 Lapras, which no reasonable player will allow to happen, unless they have ran out of counters (which is hard on stall) or missplay, which are things you cannot rely on.
- Sub + Life Orb is absolutely contradictory, as it's Lapras' very same bulk that makes it remotely viable.
- Milotic could give less of a damn if Lapras is setting up, as it'll just have its boosts hazed away when it gets to +2 (we're assuming stall here, and no one would run 3 attacks unless they are pretty sure they got everything else covered); while it doesn't hit back for considerable damage, differently from Feraligatr.
- You're using a spinner, which means this perfect stallbreaker needs some considerable support to do its job; and you've been talking about stall all long, so Spikes are to be assumed and so is spinblocking.
- I repeat again, no player is gonna let you get +1, Substitute and then bring in their Hitmontop. People know what sweepers are capable of and will switch to their counters as soon as possible not to be swept, and Hitmontop's Intimidate + continuous Close Combats will force Lapras to lose a lot of HP subbing to win
- Repeating, Lapras will have a Sub OR have +1 status, not both.
- Registeel isn't common on stall, but balance.
- Regarding Rotom we have the following situation: Lapras switches in; Lapras uses Dragon Dance as Rotom comes in; Lapras doesn't OHKO Rotom while said floating poké either burns it or hit it with a STAB Thunderbolt; Lapras loses. Same applies to Venusaur;
-Didn't you read what I said? Switch it in on something such as Chansey or Registeel and then sub. Get your DD as they switch, and if they send in something such as Milotic because they think just because it has HP Grass it's a counter then you set up more and 2KO it. That's usually how I get +2. Seriously, you probably don't even know how easy it is because I'm assuming you haven't even tried it. >_>
Metagross66 said:-Have you forgotten that substitute blocks Intimidate? Like I said, most people will try to status/attack it with Chansey, Milotic, and Registeel instead of going directly to Hitmontop allowing you a free sub which seismic toss doesn't break. This is because they don't suspect a DD set, though that's probably not the case now. If it CCs it loses defense and you just sub it off until you can KO it (after about 2 subs).
Metagross66 said:-Just explained how I beat Venusaur up there (I did it several times, too...). Lapras has only ever lost to a Rotom once and that's because it was scarfed. Otherwise, it had its sub and +1 and 2KOed it with Waterfall.
Against Registeel you're coming in on Thunder Wave, against Chansey you're coming in on Toxic or Thunder Wave. Switching into these Pokemon is not a reliable way to set up. Pokemon such as Rhyperior and Torterra don't give two shits about Thunder Wave (or even Toxic) so they can just blindly switch in. If they send in Milotic, they're going to have Haze. If not, they simply won't send it in.
Why would people just sit there and let you get a Substitute up then switch? That's stupid. I'm sure Plusle can sweep if Chansey and Registeel sit there trying to Paralyze its substitute or do minimal damage with Stoss/Iron Head. People won't do that. If you send Lapras in on a revenge kill, you can bet that they will switch right to Hitmontop and Intimidate will nail you. Even if Lapras isn't common the fact that you sent it in on a special wall makes it quite obvious.
You don't reliably beat Venusaur. It switches in, you Sub or DD and you actually flat out lose if it has energy ball. You don't 2HKO even with a DD (52% maximum) and it can just flat out out damage you with Energy Ball. If it is Sludge Bomb / Leaf Storm you need to predict the Leaf Storm and use Substitute which isn't very easy. And you realize you don't have Sub and +1 when Rotom comes in, so it switches in and you have a Sub or DD then it OHKOes you with Thunderbolt (or 2HKOes you with the Sub).
Not to mention Tangrowth has been on the rise.
-Didn't you read what I said? Switch it in on something such as Chansey or Registeel and then sub. Get your DD as they switch, and if they send in something such as Milotic because they think just because it has HP Grass it's a counter then you set up more and 2KO it. That's usually how I get +2. Seriously, you probably don't even know how easy it is because I'm assuming you haven't even tried it. >_>
- I never said I used Sub LO even though it is possible with a wish passer. I just stated that I use a sub DD Lapras (mine is holding leftys). I only said LO grabs you a certain 2KO against Milotic at +2. You don't even need LO to 2KO Venusaur at +1 which means that if one switches it in after bringing Lapras in on Milotic, you'll most likely get these conditions to 2KO that Venusaur.
-Have you forgotten that substitute blocks Intimidate? Like I said, most people will try to status/attack it with Chansey, Milotic, and Registeel instead of going directly to Hitmontop allowing you a free sub which seismic toss doesn't break. This is because they don't suspect a DD set, though that's probably not the case now. If it CCs it loses defense and you just sub it off until you can KO it (after about 2 subs).
-If you bring it in on the above Pokemon which are really common then it is extremely likely you will have both.
-Not going to bother with this because you're right, but that still doesn't mean it isn't played on Stall.
-Just explained how I beat Venusaur up there (I did it several times, too...). Lapras has only ever lost to a Rotom once and that's because it was scarfed. Otherwise, it had its sub and +1 and 2KOed it with Waterfall.
Curse Lapras could be better, but I have my doubts. Ice is a bad defensive typing and Curse puts it in the position to take things like Close Combats from Hitmonlee and Hitmontop when it can just outspeed them for KOs with a DD set. I'm not going to forget about it before trying it, though, because shell armor is a good ability for a Curser.
I used a CB Raichu to cover one of my teams' weaknesses. I'm not impressed with its bulk, and its speed could easily be better, but firing off CB Volt Tackles feels pretty good, and Static is a nice ability. And a CB Focus Punch, while risky, is so awesome to nail incoming Registeel and Rhyperior with.
Low Kick is a good move to use over Cross Chop. You hit stuff like Donphan and Milotic for the same base power, while hitting Registeel harder. Yeah, you hit other stuff for less power but most of the Pokemon that you would use your Fighting-type move on won't particularly enjoy a +2 Low kick anyway even if it hits for only 80 BP.
I understand that there's a glitch on Shoddy which cause moves like Grass Knot and Low Kick to ignore power boosts from items, so I guess it won't be that good to use if you run Life Orb on Croak. It doesn't matter to me though since I run Lum Berry on Croak (which was recommended by Thund somewhere in this thread iirc), which is a superior item choice imo.
Lapras just doesn't hit hard enough and its stupid ice typing just ruins it. I have played around with its mixed DD set and it was meh. Curse set is meh.
And PK Gaming loving and bragging about Raichu... shocking lol.
And people forget about SD Toxicroak which is probably its best set. The problem with it.. it depends on Cross Chop and Stone Edge which means one I will miss at the wrong time and your sweep will be over and you will rage. But damn that thing hits like a truck (if it hits :(). Plus with seemingly everyone using the NP set, a lot of times people send in the wrong counter/wall only to get OHKO'd.