I think Venomoth needs more love. Excellent base 90 speed, good Sp. Atk, and Tinted Lens makes it a decent special attacker. It can run Specs, Life Orb with Sleep Powder and Roost, or running just Bug Buzz as an attacking move with Toxic and an Insect Plate. I prefer the Specs set to take advantage of the great coverage Tinted Lens allows. The Life Orb set is also good so that you can heal and put counters to sleep. So what do you guys think of Venomoth?
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- Thread starter reachzero
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Venomoth is awesome. It doesn't really have anything that outclasses it in the metagame but still requires some support to work viably. I fooled around with Passing a Nasty Plot to a Tinted Lens-Spec'd version a while back. And things died. Horribly. I recall it doing somewhere in the region of 50% to a Registeel switch in with either Bug Buzz or Psychic. Not sure. But that's saying something.
I just have a chubby for Bug types in general though...
I fucking hate that piece of shit. First I've got to dedicate a pokemon to sleep, THEN I've got to dedicate a pokemon to tank whatever moves it's got. Tinted Lens makes it so only a pokemon like Moltres can actually resist bug buzz (which I hate)
It's just annoying and frustrating to face.
Is it good? Damn straight.
YES!!!!
Edit:@Thund: There's a difference between variety and gimmicks, and if this metagame was filled with the most diverse but effective tactics I'd have been laddering these days intead of playing Ubers (which awesomely, manages to be less gimmicky than UU).
Edit2:@M Blade: Or they don't want to face CB Registeel. Your pick.
I realized this after I went 25-3 with a Sash Omastar 5 sweeper synergy-less team at around 1600.
People don't want to ban shit this round so they don't care as much about voting. And consequently, there is nothing to try and stop people from banning either.
I honestly don't get how people can still manage to look for the smallest thing to complain about. Were Raikou and Froslass really making the metagame so enjoyable that this one is constantly getting complaints about how chaotic it is? Just because it's a tad harder to make a more standard team this round doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the metagame. You can still stick your pathetic Milo/Venu/Arcanine core onto a team and still win most of the time so I don't see why all the hardcore players feel the need to bitch about how they can't adapt cause they cant abuse something that's broken. "Oh no this Hitmonchan revenged my Swellow with a Scarf. This meta is too diverse I hate it!" it's pathetic.
Speaking of Scarfed fighters, please stop Scarfing your Hitmonlee's because it sucks. Use a LO or CB set because those aren't dead weight against stall and can still hold its own against offense. Unless changing it up a bit would make this meta too diverse, of course.
That is all.
Speaking of Scarfed fighters, please stop Scarfing your Hitmonlee's because it sucks. Use a LO or CB set because those aren't dead weight against stall and can still hold its own against offense. Unless changing it up a bit would make this meta too diverse, of course.
That is all.
I completely agree with Thund. It was fun (for some) to abuse the shit out of Froslass and Raikou and strive to ban/protect said pokemon. Sure we lost our GOAL but we'll get one eventually (fucking drop Heracross) I prefer peace though. (Reminds of FFX's calm)
I also agree with the scarfed fighter comment.
CB Hitmonlee in particular hurts this metagame bad. CB Close Combat 2HKO's bulky
Torterra and (Tangrowth with Entry hazards)
I also agree with the scarfed fighter comment.
CB Hitmonlee in particular hurts this metagame bad. CB Close Combat 2HKO's bulky
Torterra and (Tangrowth with Entry hazards)
I don't have the difficulty in making a solid team at all (not meaning to be cocky). I realize carrying a check for something may be the best I can do; but what I guess I am complaing about is the lack in skill on the ladder. As Bluewind, I don't mind gimmcks if they work but when I have battled the same person on the ladder (like five times in a row mind you) and they try to set up the same dumb gimmick only for me to KO the same way I did the last five times they tried it. I just get mindlessly bored.
Edit: To add on with the gimmicks what truly irks me is the lack of common sense in some players. I have had swellows and Scythers switch in to try to revenge my Rhyperior. I mean come on.
Edit: To add on with the gimmicks what truly irks me is the lack of common sense in some players. I have had swellows and Scythers switch in to try to revenge my Rhyperior. I mean come on.
Retarded enemy withdrew Swellow!
Retarded enemy sent out Registeel!
Rhyperior used Earthquake!
Seriously, that happened to me today. I've also build up a decent HO team, but it's taken a bit more time for me. Handles Swellow, though, which is nice. And gets walled without much trouble by Milotic, which isn't...
Retarded enemy sent out Registeel!
Rhyperior used Earthquake!
Seriously, that happened to me today. I've also build up a decent HO team, but it's taken a bit more time for me. Handles Swellow, though, which is nice. And gets walled without much trouble by Milotic, which isn't...
Milotic is a bitch to any kind of HO. I like having venusaur or some kind of grass type as a little insurance against it. I agree that the competitiveness has died a little bit, but it did last round too. Around the last few days or so people will actually try to do something. I've also found that's it's harder to ladder with the same team. I have 3 teams this round (1 defensive, 2 offensive) and I can do do really well one night and the same team will fail miserably the next day. It's odd because I've never had a team lose it's effectiveness that fast. I was annoyed at first witht he metagame, but it seems to have calmed down. This is our chance not to have to use the same things to win consistently, but were still bitching? Really? I guess there will always be something to complain about. =/
I have to say, Sub/SD Rhyperior in a Sandstorm is complete and utter PWNage. After an SD, even Claydol take ~50% from Stone Edge, not mention it can easily set up on stuff like Chansey, Weezing (Who incidentally can't do crap to Rhyp under a Sub), Seismic Toss Clefable. I've been testing this on my Rhyperior/Rhydon team and Rhyperior pretty much kicks so much ass that Rhydon doesn't even need to come in and clean up.
Where did this come from? O_O
Honestly, though, the recent complaints about the metagame aren't really to be taken so personally. You'd be a little frustrated too if you went from "just grind to get upper reqs" to "argh lower reqs elude me again". That's all I can really say to this. I'm really, really not sure what got you so angry all of a sudden. I mean, really, putting people under an umbrella "pathetic" description is just offensive to anyone to whom it might have been addressed, even if you are somewhat right. It's a hasty generalization and I'm appalled to think that anyone might appreciate it.
I've never once put Arcanine in the same team as Venusaur, myself <_<
Remember me of using my CM Encore Golduck when i battle you hhihhihi
About the metagame thing, Flamewheeler got it right:
Well it had to be said. I didn't take it personally and I'm not angry, but it probably seems like that considering we're talking through text here. I'm just the only one who decided it was time to post something to the numerous people who continually post stuff like that. And Venu/Milo/K9 is just an example of a standard core, I could have just as easily used the Swellow/Scyther/Donphan core a good amount of people use.
People continuously posting in this thread complaining about how the meta is so unstable isn't going to solve anything. If you want to fix it so bad, post a RMT and start getting people to use a set of standards again.
And nothing in Pokemon frustrates me. That's probably why I'm able to look at this in a different way than most. I'm not part of the recent ragequitting fad that's taken the ladder by storm. If anything is making the meta unenjoyable it's the players.
I shared this thought with the massive chunk of people who regularly spectate my games, but I guess I might as well post it in the megathread for posterity...the reason people are having so much trouble adapting to this metagame is because, for the first time in possibly the entire history of new UU, teambuilding is no longer "okay what's the most broken thing in the metagame and how can I stop it from abusing me/how can I abuse it". This basically means that a lot of players were relying on extrinsic direction to guide their teams. A current look at the most successful teams on the ladder right now reveals something interesting: they are all teams with a self-contained strategy that is not reliant on metagame shifts. Making teams like that in the previous metagames would not be very successful merely because the suspects were often such a massive force that ignoring them would become perilous to your rating, but in a metagame like this one, such an attitude is more of an asset, because no matter what gimmicky shit people through together, if the idea behind your team is "lure and weaken Luna's counters until she can sweep", you will do that regardless of if your opponent is using registeel/slowking it or grumpig/lapras to counter it, whereas if your team is based around "okay let's stop moltres from fucking me over" you'll be at a significant disadvantage against any team that doesn't care about Moltres at all.
Spoken like a true gimmick user :P.
It seemed peoples main complaint was the actual amount of "solid players/teams" on the ladder. This is true from my experience. I run stupid shit and still only lose to hax. I'm not using any awesome ninja prediction skills or anything, I'm just using an algorithm for every match. "Sash Omastar sets up SR + Spikes and dies. They I use 5 sweepers and they lose."
While I agree with the main idea of your post, I completely disagree with the last segment. There are definitely Pokemon who you need to think "ok let's stop this mon from fucking me over" and Moltres is one of them. If you don't you'll lose whenever someone uses one of those dangerous Pokemon.
What I don't quite understand is why people are being called out for saying the metagame is too hard when the most recent trend is to claim that the metagame is too easy (like with Heysup's post). I think that that's what threw me off the most about your post, Thund. Also, we all respect that you try a variety of different Pokémon, but with what you said it seemed like you were starting to impose that on us, criticizing us for not doing the same thing. The truth is, there are some barriers in people's lives that prevent them from satisfactorily testing very many teams. My trend has been making five or six teams and then laddering with two or three of them.
When I was complaining about the metagame a while back, I was just trying to make a point. Pokémon that "stick out" don't necessarily have to be removed to create a "better" metagame; it might even make it worse. There is such a thing as too much variety, too little centralization, etc. Jabba and others (sort of) warned about this before, and I was echoing those words.
What really intrigues me is that this UU/NU list is basically last summer's UU/NU list minus Yanmega and plus Alakazam and Rhyperior. Was Yanmega really so centralizing? Was my Yanmega lead really that much better than the Scarf Moltres that replaced it? Or are people just bending over backwards at the prospect of no suspects?
One last thing for completeness:
Losing several games in a row to everybody wouldn't put you down? Even just a little? Maybe a smidge? This isn't a bad thing. It tells you that you might be in tilt, that maybe you're not adapting very well to the current metagame, that perhaps you should stop for a while. It's not about not having fear; it's about dealing with it. When people complain, they're just telling it how it is. This is just as important as your complaining about their complaining is. When we post in this thread, we should be talking about all of our experiences, both good and bad, and then we deal with that in our own way.
When I was complaining about the metagame a while back, I was just trying to make a point. Pokémon that "stick out" don't necessarily have to be removed to create a "better" metagame; it might even make it worse. There is such a thing as too much variety, too little centralization, etc. Jabba and others (sort of) warned about this before, and I was echoing those words.
Maybe that is implicitly one of the problems, but I don't believe that that is the whole story. I commented a few times in previous metagames about how I was doing fine with an "old" team from the Shaymin era. I don't really believe in anti-metagaming, and I make teams with suspects just to see how well they do, often to be disappointed. (This is why all of my accepted votes have been UU.) I don't think too hard about what might specifically threaten my team when I'm building it. The hope is that, if a major threat does exist, it will be rare or it will sweep me enough times that I'll think of an adjustment. It really helped that I had a specific face to my problems in previous metagames. Also, my "old" team did have an underlying purpose, which was basically artillery spotting. The early May metagame definitely wasn't friendly to that plan :S Basically I think I just happen to have suffered from the second-order effects of the recent bans.
What really intrigues me is that this UU/NU list is basically last summer's UU/NU list minus Yanmega and plus Alakazam and Rhyperior. Was Yanmega really so centralizing? Was my Yanmega lead really that much better than the Scarf Moltres that replaced it? Or are people just bending over backwards at the prospect of no suspects?
One last thing for completeness:
I don't use that core either :P Seriously, though, I think we all (should) have our favourite Pokémon and our favourite cores. Personally, I find it hard to justify not using Milotic+Registeel on my balanced teams, Bulky Gyarados on many of my OU teams, etc.
No. I completely and utterly disagree with this. Raikou and Froslass did not benefit this metagame whatsoever. Not even in the slightest.
I cannot find a single positive for Raikou and Froslass whatsover.
And Jabba implies that the only Froslass was the only offensive spikers. We still have Cloyster and Omastar to set up spikes. (without being utterly ridiculous to beat)
Huh.
I'm actually curious about this team? You don't have to tell me your team mates but how does your team deal with powerful offensive threats? (Moltres, Alakazam etc) Moltres is particular only has a few counters on offensive teams, and the only I can think of is Azumarill.
Hmm, I must have misunderstood the concept of the Banlist someone mentioned above. But yeah, 'Zam dies to any halfway decent Physical attack, and with a SE priority in Sucker Punch running around its speed really isn't a problem. Rhyperior can be a pain for my team if it gets a Rock Polish under it's belt, but that requires at least 3 members of my team to be taken out before its gg.
I think 252 Atk / 28 SpAtk / 228 Speed with Hasty/Naive works well, outspeeding Rotom. Hasty might be better since Rotom might not switch and you'll have to take a special hit. This is of course all going on the assumption that you're intending to run the standard Pursuit set of Pursuit / Thunder Fang / Fire Blast / Sucker Punch.
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