Let's Break the Format [OU Team]

Sandstorm

This team is around the one and only deadly Dragon Dancing Salamence. I usually start my teams by balancing a weakness resistance chart while making sure I have: a solid lead, a scarfed Pokemon, a Scizor counter lol, and so on. From there I see what I am weak to from the top OU threats and alter the team to fit those needs. Finally, I post it on Smogon or get assistance from friends.

Movesets:

heatran.png


Heatran @ Shuca Berry
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
Ability: Flash Fire
~ Stealth Rock
~ Fire Blast
~ Earth Power
~ Taunt

Heatran brings great things to the table and the lead set is not all that bad. It used to be standard to run Explosion but in this team's case, Heatran will want to be conserved if neccesary. Recently added Taunt because I forgot Heatran could learn Taunt, it will definitely help my team against stall. So that is just excellent!

rotomfrost.png


Rotom-F @ Leftovers
252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe
Bold Nature
Ability: Levitate
~ Thunderbolt
~ Shadow Ball
~ Will-O-Wisp
~ Pain Split

Standard Frost Form Rotom, it helps against many things. My Scizor counter, and probably my favorite one to be honest. I recently added Pain Split because I like the idea of recovery on this thing, it would have helped in past battles I know that much. I use Freezer form so that I can confuse my opponent of course.

Jirachi.png


Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
252 Spe / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
Ability: Serene Grace
~ Iron Head
~ Fire Punch
~ Ice Punch
~ Trick

I wanted a revenge killer and Scarf Rachi gets the job done. I've been meaning to use a Scarf Physical Jirachi for awhile, it has a great movepool to utilize the speed. Hitting a wide variety of threats. People have recommended Thunderpunch on this Jirachi but isn't the Rotom enough to handle things like Gyarados? Added Trick to handle annoying stall stuff and Suicunes that want to set up.

Starmie.png


Starmie @ Leftovers
136 HP / 156 Def / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
Ability: Natural Cure
~ Rapid Spin
~ Surf
~ Thunderbolt
~ Recover

Bulky Starmie because it gets rid of Rocks and stuff so that Salamence isn't screwed. It also acts as a solid sweeper and has lasting power due to Recover. Having another really fast Pokemon in the wings in case Jirachi dies is never a bad thing.

breloom.png


Breloom @ Toxic Orb
12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe
Adamant Nature
Ability: Poison Heal
~ Spore
~ Focus Punch
~ Seed Bomb
~ Stone Edge

Standard Spore Punching Breloom. Assuming they give you the chance to set up and don't have a counter, this Breloom is an absolute monster. Recently added Stone Edge because I got raped by Zapdos without it. And most of my team has no solid answer to Zapdos. But maybe Substitute is necessary, it is what made Breloom really strong VIA the Poison Healing madness.

salamence.png


Salamence @ Leftovers
232 Atk / 252 Spe / 24 SpA
Naive Nature
Ability: Intimidate
~ Dragon Dance
~ Outrage
~ Earthquake
~ Fire Blast

Star of the Team, now an offensive Salamence. Fire Blast is there to counter Scizor and steel walls that try to ruin my sweep. I must admit the set is too Smogon standard and might need revisions depending on this team, so I'm not sure yet.

Chart:
2ndTeam.png
 
OK so a tyraniBoah with ice Beam can run through this team, so i suggest replacing Rotom-A with a Crocune or BulkyGyara. Rotom-A is ment to spin block, but your only entry hazards is SR so it is really just a filler and Starmie and Heatran counter Gyara and Scizor ( not to mention Salamence counters both). Both BulkyGyara and Crocune (Crocune is perferred) can come in on Tyraniboah and set up on it, walling it effectively
 
DRADE said:
OK so a tyraniBoah with ice Beam can run through this team, so i suggest replacing Rotom-A with a Crocune or BulkyGyara. Rotom-A is ment to spin block, but your only entry hazards is SR so it is really just a filler and Starmie and Heatran counter Gyara and Scizor ( not to mention Salamence counters both). Both BulkyGyara and Crocune (Crocune is perferred) can come in on Tyraniboah and set up on it, walling it effectively
Click to expand...

I haven't seen a Tyraniboah in ages...
 
Jirachi, change Fire Punch to Thunderpunch, you already have Rotom who easily takes down Scizor.
Salamence, bulky DD sets are best used by Dragonite

Dragonite @ Leftovers / Life Orb / Lum Berry
Adamant - Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Atk / 204 Spe
~ Dragon Dance
~ Dragon Claw / Outrage
~ Earthquake
~ Roost
 
Shizzle said:
Jirachi, change Fire Punch to Thunderpunch, you already have Rotom who easily takes down Scizor.
Salamence, bulky DD sets are best used by Dragonite

Dragonite @ Leftovers / Life Orb / Lum Berry
Adamant - Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Atk / 204 Spe
~ Dragon Dance
~ Dragon Claw / Outrage
~ Earthquake
~ Roost
Click to expand...
In regards to Rotom, is Cut Form even necessary then? I could always run Overheat VIA Heat Form.

But Mence has better speed stats and such and has an effect that doesn't suck...
 
I recommended Thunderpunch over Fire punch, because then you can effectively counter a Gyarados after a dragon dance. You don't exactly need a fire move, I mean you have Heatran and Starmie who can soak up steel hits, and Scizor isn't a huge threat to this team. Also getting locked onto Fire Punch is quite possibly the worst thing ever.

I suggested Dragonite over Salamence, because Dragonite is much bulkier than Salamence, and can actually tank hits really well. 252 HP / 52 Atk / 204 Spe is the set you want to be running, its can take special hits MUCH better. Dragonite doesn't have the Intimidate, but its similarity to Salamence still fends off similar pokemon. The truth is, if you are not putting 200+ Speed EVs on Salamence, and 100+ into non offensive stats, you should be using Dragonite.
 
don't rate teams much because i'm not very good at it, but i decided i'd give a few thoughts here

this team actually looks quite solid and i guess most of what i have to say is pretty minor

i recommend not making both the jirachi moveset change and the salamence -> dragonite change at the same time, as those are your only checks to swords dance lucario. lucario can set up on jirachi's iron head or ice punch, and it also forces heatran and breloom out. after a dance you can only check it with fire punch on jirachi (which is super predictable so not ideal at all) or salamence. having just one counter/check isn't so great since jirachi is scarfed which means it gives lots of free switches, and salamence might not stay alive until the late game when lucario is typically unleashed.

while dragonite is more bulky than salamence specially, its physical defense and low speed really lets it down against lucario. a swords danced adamant life orb close combat deals 700 Atk vs 226 Def & 386 HP (120 Base Power): 259 - 306 (67.10% - 79.27%) to 252/0 dragonite, which is a decent chance to ohko with just stealth rock and sandstorm. however, since salamence is faster than adamant lucario and has intimidate, the best lucario can do to it is a weakened extremespeed, which only deals 525 Atk vs 241 Def & 394 HP (80 Base Power): 163 - 192 (41.37% - 48.73%).

in terms of what you lose for not switching to thunderpunch, you have starmie and rotom (and breloom and salamence to an extent) for gyarados anyways. if it still gives you problems then you can try thunderpunch over u-turn on jirachi, which makes it a little harder to use in the early and midgame but maximizes its revenge killing potential. also, while dragonite takes special hits a little better, i don't think the difference is enough to justify losing all the physical insurance that salamence gives (including against stuff like breloom too).

rotom doesn't need leaf storm as will o wisp and shadow ball already handles swampert (plus you have breloom). it also doesn't really need the 88 speed since that's just to beat max speed scizor which isn't very common; you have heatran and fire punch jirachi for that already (rotom walls scizor anyways). i'd put the speed evs into defense which will help against dragon dance gyarados. over that in the last slot (which is mostly filler on rotom) you can try light screen or reflect or even pain split; ls can help your salamence set up, reflect helps vs tyranitar (reflect on switch + will o wisp neuters it), and pain split means you stay alive longer.

final change is somewhat odd but i don't really see the point of exploding heatran. your team doesn't really like losing members like that, since heatran is quite useful for switching into rotom that your jirachi, breloom, and starmie attract. it is also one of two dragon resists on your team; the other is a scarfer with no defensive investment. i think toxic over explosion and a nature shift to timid will encourage you to use heatran in a role that supports its team better (in terms of not blowing up). also, common heatran switchins include bulky waters, which happen to be the best counters to bulky dragon dance salamence. if you hit them with a toxic on the switch then it means they'll be much harder pressed to stop your salamence since you can wear them down much more easily.

summary of sorts:
- definitely don't get rid of fire punch and switch salamence to dragonite at the same time; i don't like either switch individually either
- move speed on rotom to defense and try screen / pain split in the last slot
- explosion -> toxic on heatran and shift natures

good luck

edit: scofield informed me that this team is quite weak to offensive suicune (max special attack, max speed, calm mind / ice beam / hp electric / surf). it ohkoes breloom and salamence, does a ton to heatran, and sets up on rotom, jirachi, and starmie (due to rotom's low speed and starmie's lack of special attack investment). possible fixes for this include trick on jirachi which would let you lock it into surf and go to starmie, breloom or salamence; you could also increase rotom's speed to max with light screen so it can set that up then thunderbolt away (this would unfortunately make you a bit more gyarados weak but mostly only to the life orb variant which is much easier to play around). less reliable options are passho berry on heatran (although that would guarantee you the toxic), or putting a life orb and an offensive spread on starmie (you can't switch into it and beat it with this, but it does give your team some cool immediate firepower).
 
whistle said:
don't rate teams much because i'm not very good at it, but i decided i'd give a few thoughts here

this team actually looks quite solid and i guess most of what i have to say is pretty minor

i recommend not making both the jirachi moveset change and the salamence -> dragonite change at the same time, as those are your only checks to swords dance lucario. lucario can set up on jirachi's iron head or ice punch, and it also forces heatran and breloom out. after a dance you can only check it with fire punch on jirachi (which is super predictable so not ideal at all) or salamence. having just one counter/check isn't so great since jirachi is scarfed which means it gives lots of free switches, and salamence might not stay alive until the late game when lucario is typically unleashed.

while dragonite is more bulky than salamence specially, its physical defense and low speed really lets it down against lucario. a swords danced adamant life orb close combat deals 700 Atk vs 226 Def & 386 HP (120 Base Power): 259 - 306 (67.10% - 79.27%) to 252/0 dragonite, which is a decent chance to ohko with just stealth rock and sandstorm. however, since salamence is faster than adamant lucario and has intimidate, the best lucario can do to it is a weakened extremespeed, which only deals 525 Atk vs 241 Def & 394 HP (80 Base Power): 163 - 192 (41.37% - 48.73%).

in terms of what you lose for not switching to thunderpunch, you have starmie and rotom (and breloom and salamence to an extent) for gyarados anyways. if it still gives you problems then you can try thunderpunch over u-turn on jirachi, which makes it a little harder to use in the early and midgame but maximizes its revenge killing potential. also, while dragonite takes special hits a little better, i don't think the difference is enough to justify losing all the physical insurance that salamence gives (including against stuff like breloom too).

rotom doesn't need leaf storm as will o wisp and shadow ball already handles swampert (plus you have breloom). it also doesn't really need the 88 speed since that's just to beat max speed scizor which isn't very common; you have heatran and fire punch jirachi for that already (rotom walls scizor anyways). i'd put the speed evs into defense which will help against dragon dance gyarados. over that in the last slot (which is mostly filler on rotom) you can try light screen or reflect or even pain split; ls can help your salamence set up, reflect helps vs tyranitar (reflect on switch + will o wisp neuters it), and pain split means you stay alive longer.

final change is somewhat odd but i don't really see the point of exploding heatran. your team doesn't really like losing members like that, since heatran is quite useful for switching into rotom that your jirachi, breloom, and starmie attract. it is also one of two dragon resists on your team; the other is a scarfer with no defensive investment. i think toxic over explosion and a nature shift to timid will encourage you to use heatran in a role that supports its team better (in terms of not blowing up). also, common heatran switchins include bulky waters, which happen to be the best counters to bulky dragon dance salamence. if you hit them with a toxic on the switch then it means they'll be much harder pressed to stop your salamence since you can wear them down much more easily.

summary of sorts:
- definitely don't get rid of fire punch and switch salamence to dragonite at the same time; i don't like either switch individually either
- move speed on rotom to defense and try screen / pain split in the last slot
- explosion -> toxic on heatran and shift natures

good luck

edit: scofield informed me that this team is quite weak to offensive suicune (max special attack, max speed, calm mind / ice beam / hp electric / surf). it ohkoes breloom and salamence, does a ton to heatran, and sets up on rotom, jirachi, and starmie (due to rotom's low speed and starmie's lack of special attack investment). possible fixes for this include trick on jirachi which would let you lock it into surf and go to starmie, breloom or salamence; you could also increase rotom's speed to max with light screen so it can set that up then thunderbolt away (this would unfortunately make you a bit more gyarados weak but mostly only to the life orb variant which is much easier to play around). less reliable options are passho berry on heatran (although that would guarantee you the toxic), or putting a life orb and an offensive spread on starmie (you can't switch into it and beat it with this, but it does give your team some cool immediate firepower).
Click to expand...
1. Is there an easier check to that Suicune? Like a total Pokemon change?
2. I was considering Overheat or Pain Split on Rotom, thoughts?
3. That makes sense on the Heatran and I could do that.
4. I knew Mence was just miles better than Dragonite
5. Still confused on what set to run on Jirachi now

Yeah, great advice but kind of confused about how I should go about this.

Thanks,
SaiaSandstorm
 
Only one suggestions:

Jirachi has a nice build but one problem with its moveset is Iron Head. I suggest getting Zen Headbutt. Not many things can resist Psychic but many things resist the Steel type moves.
 
well i can't think of one change that will solve your offensive suicune issues without really messing with the team; its best counter is blissey or toxic wish vaporeon while stuff like offensive celebi/shaymin works quite well too. but idk how to put one of those on your team without fussing up the balance (putting one of those grasses over breloom makes you a lot weaker to stall, while putting toxic vaporeon over starmie means you can't spin for salamence, for example). maybe someone else who is better at team rating can figure out a switch that you'd like though. but imo, trick on jirachi and max speed with light screen on rotom makes you safe enough from suicune.

so in terms of rotom/jirachi (you seem to have the other changes down):
- max speed on rotom, timid. so a spread of 252 hp / 252 speed with 4 in defense / special defense / special attack. this is faster than max speed suicune which means you can thunderbolt it before it calm minds, and also set up light screen before it surfs you. however, this makes you a bit more gyarados weak, as a dragon danced life orb adamant waterfall deals 84.2% - 99.7% (which is basically way too much). but this gyarados variant is pretty rare as most are bulky nowadays, but i have a jirachi change for this anyways. another perk to making rotom max speed is that it can check adamant lucario after it is weakened a bit or has used close combat, since you're faster.
- trick over u-turn on jirachi. note that this sacrifices scouting a bit, and also means gyarados has an easier time setting up on you (among other things like heatran, various steels, etc) since you won't ever uturn off and force it to take stealth rock while not doing anything useful. if you are playing a better player you might consider double switching jirachi out (not attacking in the early game since you predict a switch to heatran/etc) in the early game but i guess only if you're comfortable with that.
- thunderpunch over ice punch on jirachi. ice punch is mostly for revenging salamence, but salamence can't set up on much of your team without taking a bit of damage (its best bet is probably starmie it will have to scout your set to make sure you don't have ice beam which means it will be later in the game; breloom deals 30%+ with focus punch), which means iron head + stealth rock is probably enough to deal with it. while rare, all-out offensive gyarados is quite mean to this team with stealth rock up, so jirachi can revenge with thunderpunch.

based off what happens in your testing you can also try switching these changes around to see what fits your style the best, or even trying other stuff like pain split on rotom. i don't like overheat on it, though, because most things that you would use it against are already beaten by rotom anyways.
 
I could just throw away the team and start from scratch. I'd rather have sure-fire counters and not small things that if I'm lucky I might pull off. :(

I edited the post above, maybe cut Heatran, Rotom and Starmie and see what I can add to Salamence, Jirachi and Breloom to make it solid. Since the point of this team was to try out Jirachi, Breloom and Salamence.

Also in regards to their specific sets: Jirachi's set will depend on the rest of the team, but Salamence could just be switched to normal DD Mence and Breloom could add Stone Edge since that's the hot thing now.

Recommendations?
EDIT:

Salamence ---> Offensive DD
Rotom ---> Frost, + Pain Split
Heatran ---> Taunt
Breloom ---> Stone Edge
 
Here are just a few quick suggestions that you may want to consider.

Jirachi really wants thunderpunch to revenge kill gyarados. Nix fire punch, i don't think its going to score you much use against most steel types, things like scizor will auto switch because they can't really touch rachi.

Switch your rotom to head and go with overheat, wow, tbolt, shadowball. He will become your scizor counter and overall badass pokemon.

My last suggestion would be give mence an overhaul. I've seen it work really well before. But if you are building a team around a mence you might as well go a little more offensive.

Salamence @ leftovers
adamant
4 def / 252 att /252 speed
~ Dragon Dance
~ Dragon Claw
~ Earthquake
~ Flamethrower

Flamethrower is really only to cover scizor so he doesn't ruin your sweep. Even with the adamant nature it is a guarenteed OHKO and you don't have to drop in defenses with a lonely nature. With leftovers you still retain some of that bulk you are looking for and your sweep wont be stopped short from Orb damage as well as taking on attacks. Mence doesn't really miss too much of the power loss from not carrying life orb and outrage and you still get to sweep. I would normally go plus speed, but if you go with plus attack you make up for the loss of the Life Orb power.

Oh also, I would put hp grass on tran, just try and pick off perts.
 
My 24 Hour Bump.

I may just be that I'm getting HAXED out but so far this team hasn't won a single game.

Anyone have any suggestions? I'm pretty desperate right now...
 
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