NU Discussion Thread (Mark II)

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Well, let's look at the CMers in NU.

  • Banette
  • Chimecho
  • Corsola
  • Delcatty
  • Drifblim
  • Entei
  • Espeon
  • Gardevoir
  • Girafarig
  • Golduck
  • Grumpig
  • Hypno
  • Jynx
  • Lunatone
  • Medicham
  • Mr. Mime
  • Ninetails
  • Relicanth
  • Sableye
  • Spinda
  • Stantler
  • Sudowoodo
  • Xatu
It's OK, and isn't like some of the guys on this list (CM Sudowoodo or Medicham is laughable.), but it certainly has competition.
 
Mattman324 said:
Well, let's look at the CMers in NU.

  • Banette
  • Chimecho
  • Corsola
  • Delcatty
  • Drifblim
  • Entei
  • Espeon
  • Gardevoir
  • Girafarig
  • Golduck
  • Grumpig
  • Hypno
  • Jynx
  • Lunatone
  • Medicham
  • Mr. Mime
  • Ninetails
  • Relicanth
  • Sableye
  • Spinda
  • Stantler
  • Sudowoodo
  • Xatu
It's OK, and isn't like some of the guys on this list (CM Sudowoodo or Medicham is laughable.), but it certainly has competition.
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Half those Pokemons don't have a reason to use Calm Mind since some of them have a better move to use like on Nasty Plot on some or they don't even have the right stats to use Calm mind, but yes I agree with you there's a lot of Calm Minders in the NU Metagame, but only maybe half of those right there would have the ability to either be succesful or sweep.
 
Afrodisiac said:
Half those Pokemons don't have a reason to use Calm Mind since some of them have a better move to use like on Nasty Plot on some or they don't even have the right stats to use Calm mind, but yes I agree with you there's a lot of Calm Minders in the NU Metagame, but only maybe half of those right there would have the ability to either be succesful or sweep.
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The point of that was so I (and everyone else) could note that CMing is filled with some stuff that are good at the wrong attacking type (Medicham), suck in general (Spinda), have other moves they want to use (Stantler), or are psychics (Half the list.)

A water typed CMer that isn't Relicanth or Corsola would have a decent niche, but sereously, Jynx covers basically the same stuff (Although it has to use HP or Water Pulse to hit fires).
 
I don't know why but Articuno has been such a pain in the ass for me today it's not funny. It seems like even after SR that thing is still so freaking bulky it can takes some hits that it's just insane.
 
Pen Ink said:
I don't know why but Articuno has been such a pain in the ass for me today it's not funny. It seems like even after SR that thing is still so freaking bulky it can takes some hits that it's just insane.
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Thats probably because of me, we've battled at least 4 times today :p

But yeah, I wouldn't worry about it too much because I don't think its that popular.

EDIT: Since that really wasn't helpful at all, I guess I would just recommend hammering it with fire types that have over base 85 speed (typhlosion, charizard, entei) otherwise you just get pressure stalled. Encore also shuts it down pretty hard
 
How well does Golduck take on Fire-types? I'd want to run a set that could switch into Scarf Typhlosion and set up Calm Minds offensively.
 
0/0 golduck is 2hko by scarf typhosion eruption(full hp) and it need the speed, so you can just try max speed max hp timid and try to setup bulky CMs.
 
@ the Mild/Modest Magmortar thing: I think Its just a preference thing. Magmortar is kinda slow, and I don't want him taking more damage than he needs to. To me Modest gets the job done, but if you are worried about it not KOing I guess you can.
 
Mattman324 said:
A water typed CMer that isn't Relicanth or Corsola would have a decent niche, but sereously, Jynx covers basically the same stuff (Although it has to use HP or Water Pulse to hit fires).
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Golduck.

And overall, Golduck is one of the best CMers I've seen in DPPt (overall = standard, UU, NU, whatevUUr ok bad joke)

Anyways, Dewgong or phione still exist.

When I played with tiers I used to use Phione, it was cool.

You just realized Corsola and Relicanth takes /4 damage from Eruption.

You just realized, with good EVs, gastrodon can get similar-to-swampert stats, but with recover.

You just realized, mantine, pelipper, politoed and Whiscash (I couldnt get a good use of whiscash in my life anyways)

You just realized all of the pokemon I mentioned are resistant to fire (thick fat dewgong)

You just realized, even if it has many weaknesses, lapras it's a pretty cool guy.

Bulky waters? Next topic.
 
Mazaki Anzu said:
Golduck.

And overall, Golduck is one of the best CMers I've seen in DPPt (overall = standard, UU, NU, whatevUUr ok bad joke)
Isn't 4/0 Golduck 2HKOd by Typhlosion's Eruption?

Anyways, Dewgong or phione still exist.
Phione isn't exactly bulky and Dewgong has a horrible typing and SR weakness.

When I played with tiers I used to use Phione, it was cool.

You just realized Corsola and Relicanth takes /4 damage from Eruption.
You just realised both are OHKOd by <fire-type>'s Focus Blast/HP Grass.

You just realized, with good EVs, gastrodon can get similar-to-swampert stats, but with recover.
But with lesser offenses, no Stealth Rock and an inability to counter the most important things bulky waters in NU are meant to take on.

You just realized, mantine, pelipper, politoed and Whiscash (I couldnt get a good use of whiscash in my life anyways)
You just realised that Mantine is weak to Rocks and OHKOd by Magmortar's Thunderbolt, and doesn't have recovery. You just realised Pelipper has awful SpD. Politoed is okay, but it has a terrible movepool.

You just realized all of the pokemon I mentioned are resistant to fire (thick fat dewgong)
You just realised none of them can reliably take on the pokemon they're supposed to counter.

You just realized, even if it has many weaknesses, lapras it's a pretty cool guy.
Fair enough, lol.

Bulky waters? Next topic.
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I think you actually overlooked the best bulky water we have right now - Walrein.
 
I'd actually argue against Politoed having a terrible movepool. On the special side, the usual Water and Ice aside, it has Psychic and Focus Blast, the former which can be used against Toxicroak and Qwilfish. It also gets Hyper Voice, making it one of the only Pokemon that can pull off the Water/Normal combination effectively from the Special side (the others being Exploud, Technician Persian/Ambipom, and Splash Plate Arceus). Aside from Water Absorb, it also has Encore, Perish Song and Hypnosis, all of which can find some use. It can even pull off a Belly Drum set to some degree, though that's really best left to Poliwrath (it has some niche in learning Bounce though, which lets it spread a bit of hard hitting paralysis).
 
Golduck is not supposed to come into Typhlosion. I switch him against other things.

Ice-eyes said:
You just realised both are OHKOd by <fire-type>'s Focus Blast/HP Grass
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Because every typhlosion uses Focus blast right from the start.

Ice-eyes said:
But with lesser offenses, no Stealth Rock and an inability to counter the most important things bulky waters in NU are meant to take on
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Can you name them and how swampert could take them down?

By the way, Gastrodon offenses are okay. I could screen cap a good EV'd Gastrodon and you'll see the (special) offensive stat and defensive are very similar.

You dont need SR if you set up them with your lead and recover it's much better.

[
Ice-eyes said:
You just realised that Mantine is weak to Rocks and OHKOd by Magmortar's Thunderbolt, and doesn't have recovery. You just realised Pelipper has awful SpD. Politoed is okay, but it has a terrible movepool.
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It's not the weaknesses, but the resistances.

Mantine has the same recovery moves as most water type pokemon -nothing but rest-. It would be cool if he had roost, but that doesnt mean it's bad

Pelipper it's a good pokemon taking physical hits, if its not electric or a STAB'd rock attack.

Politoed movepool's actually pretty cool. Nedless to say you never used one or didnt know how to use it.

Ice-eyes said:
I think you actually overlooked the best bulky water we have right now - Walrein.
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I don't like walrein outside Hail and my Golduck always beat him.

Anyways; It's an option too.

Btw, learn2not look bad things: It can be very nocive to your life if you live with negativism. Take in count that many pokemon also share billion of problems.

Poliwrath is UU btw, I dont mind because I dont follow tiers but you're playing following them, so there you go.
 
Mazaki Anzu said:
Because every typhlosion uses Focus blast right from the start.
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Yeah, no one uses prediction nowadays.
Mazaki Anzu said:
Can you name them and how swampert could take them down?
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Magmortar, Charizard, Typhlosion, Ninetales, Entei, Flareon. Mostly the first four.
Mazaki Anzu said:
By the way, Gastrodon offenses are okay. I could screen cap a good EV'd Gastrodon and you'll see the (special) offensive stat and defensive are very similar.
Click to expand...
Hurp der derp, anyone with eyes can see that on the Smogon page.
Mazaki Anzu said:
You dont need SR if you set up them with your lead and recover it's much better.
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ELECTRODE USED TAUNT
Mazaki Anzu said:
It's not the weaknesses, but the resistances.
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It's both. Looks at Nidoking; immunity to Electric and resistances to Fighting, Rock, and Bug. Oh shit, weak to Water, Ice, and Ground? Urp.
Mazaki Anzu said:
Mantine has the same recovery moves as most water type pokemon -nothing but rest-. It would be cool if he had roost, but that doesnt mean it's bad
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QUAGSIRE USED RECOVER
Mazaki Anzu said:
Pelipper it's a good pokemon taking physical hits, if its not electric or a STAB'd rock attack.
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Physical hits... yeah, those CB Entei and Flareon are such a pain in the ass. I guess you can absorb a ScarfApe's Close COmbat, but you're raped by Stone Edge. And Stealth Rock. Ground immunity is nice, by Ground-type attacks aren't very common.
Mazaki Anzu said:
Politoed movepool's actually pretty cool. Nedless to say you never used one or didnt know how to use it.
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No. Furret has a cool movepool. Politoed's moovepool is average, with non-important additions such as Belly Drum and Perish Song. Aside from that, cool moves mean nothing if you can't use them.
Bastiodon @ Choice Specs
Modest / Sturdy
252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 4 Def
HP Rock
Flash Cannon
Fire Blast / Earth Power / Ice Beam / Thunderbolt
Fire Blast / Earth Power / Ice Beam / Thunderbolt
Mazaki Anzu said:
I don't like walrein outside Hail and my Golduck always beat him.
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I don't like Magmortar and my Latias always beat him.
Mazaki Anzu said:
Anyways; It's an option too.
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Of course. But is it a good option?
Mazaki Anzu said:
Btw, learn2not look bad things: It can be very nocive to your life if you live with negativism. Take in count that many pokemon also share billion of problems.
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I don't understand what this is trying to say
Mazaki Anzu said:
Poliwrath is UU btw, I dont mind because I dont follow tiers but you're playing following them, so there you go.
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Title of the thread
 
Mazaki Anzu said:
Because every typhlosion uses Focus blast right from the start.
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You seem to be forgetting that Magmortar, probably the most popular Fire type in NU, is normally LO'd.

We know that they're are waters in NU. The problem is that basically the only one that can normally wall is Walrein, and the rest either suck or have a small niche on a team like countering Rain with Golduck. I'd rather run Walrein then Corsola to counter fire types. There's Think Fat, and the survivability of it that's gonig to outclass Corcola and Relicanth who are apparently going to "force switches" against every fire type.
 
One admission - I didn't realise Politoed's movepool was as good as it is. I didn't realise it got Encore, which is pretty huge. Thanks for pointing that out.

It has to be kept in mind that the main role of bulky waters in NU is to counter Fire-types. None of the bulky waters we have can reliably do that, because they lack the defenses on the special side, have a Rock weakness or are quad-weak to Electric or Grass. Also, none of them have reliable recovery. Weaknesses are hugely important - it doesn't matter if your counter is 8x resistant to Fire if it takes 50% from Rocks or is OHKOd by <coverage move>. The benchmark for a bulky water is Slowking, and it was perfect - it had fantastic SpD, it wasn't weak to Rock, Electric or Grass, it had access to Recover, and Thunder Wave allowed it to stall out Magmortar. Nothing even comes close.

I think Specially Defensive Walrein/Politoed with Encore/Toxic/Protect/Surf are the best options at this point.

EDIT: Yeah, Pen Ink kinda summed up my points.
 
Golduck is faster than Magmortar though. I think Golduck's niche is playing a more offensive role than his fellow bulky waters.
 
wow people. life orb dodrio rapes shit. brave bird/double edge/pusuit/roost. roost is for switches since you have a life orb, two stab recoil moves, and a stealth rock weakness, your not gonna live long without it. I've been using pidgeot as a rock lure and it works nicely with hp:fighting and some sp.att evs.
Also, I tried a quadruple fire team about a month ago, and it sucked. charizard/magmortar/typhlosion/rapidash/sandslash/sneasel. mayby now that slowkings gone it will work better. I wanna make a sunny team with guys like victreebell. what do you guys think
 
I prefer CB Dodrio. The extra power is very evident against physical walls. Roost would be nice though. I don't think there's any point to Double-Edge - Return gives you a good clean-up STAB and still OHKOs Manectric and Raichu.

@ Pen Ink: Yeah, I meant that Slowking - unlike, say, Relicanth or Mantine - can actually take Electric and Grass attacks. HP Grass from <fire-type> did laughable damage, and LO T-Bolt from Magmortar was barely a 2HKO, allowing Slowking to switch in on anything else and paralyse.
 
If it weren't for that damned Ice type (and lack of Thick Fat to make it still resist fire), Lapras would probubly take NU Bulky Water crown right off of Walrein's fat head. As it stands, it can still take fire attacks pretty well, and serves as a good CHECK (But not a full counter) to most fire types.
 
Yeas. Walrein is a more useful Bullky Water than Lapras merely because of Thick Fat.
Lapras movepool and stats are so much better...

Why i bolded Bulky Water? Well: if you want to use Lapras, just don't turn it into a bulky water. It's the bulkiest Curser of NU (Regice has 50 base Atk, so no), along with nice sets like a bulky Perish Trapper/Dragon Dancer/name the nice set here.
It has issues with fighting pokes around, so you have to work for it (Sub Avalanche Lapras? lol).
 
I think we need another Rapid Spinner so we don't have to use Sandslash almost every time. I mean, I like how he sets up both SR and Rapid Spin, but sometimes he just isn't a good fit on my team. Maybe 5th Gen will give us one, because I don't see any Rapid Spinner that would get bumped down to NU.
 
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