• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

The 1v1 Metagame

seven7xenon said:
I dont mean to be ignorant but wont scarf jirachi completely rape, there are only a couple of standard pokes (i.e. not something like banded lucario) that can beat jirachi one on one and it destroys half of the strategys evryone is talking about i.e. sleep and focus sash. With this in mind i'm thinking of something like a Gyra with haban or Heatran with shuca as a viable strategy. Also, this metagame reminds me a lot of the lead 'metagame' (without the need to set up SR ofcourse).




I disagree, as many people have mentioned already, it is impossible to counter every single pokemon, shedinja loses to enough pokemon to make it an unviable strategy IMO so i'd rather just accept a loss if I see one than over-prepare for it.
Click to expand...

Standard pokes are obviously going to change as the metagame centralises around Jirachi. It beats some stuff, but it has four-moveslot syndrome and people are using stuff like Kingdra that takes Iron Head well enough.

SubDD Gyarados @ Lum Berry is a really nice set. What's Wacan going to do for you? ScarfRachi still wins if it carries Thunderpunch.
 
My experience with Gyarados has consisted almost entirely of being tbolted into oblivion by random crap. I haven't actually had much success at all, though I won a few with a CB Tyranitar.
 
Never tried this but I believe that with Focus Sash allowed Smeagle could become popular. Provided you don't match up vs a weather changer or a flincher or a ghost you can survive 1 hit, spore, endever and then KO with a prioirty move. Its just an idea off the top of my head but I am not sure if its really viable (since I don't play this)
 
Sadly, flinchers and faster sleepers are absolutely everywhere. But yeah, that Smeargle doesn't sound too bad. Any FEAR strategy works reasonably well with a Sash.

Is anything capable of Inner Focus + Endeavor?
 
ginganinja said:
Never tried this but I believe that with Focus Sash allowed Smeagle could become popular. Provided you don't match up vs a weather changer or a flincher or a ghost you can survive 1 hit, spore, endever and then KO with a prioirty move. Its just an idea off the top of my head but I am not sure if its really viable (since I don't play this)
Click to expand...

Main problem: Lum Berry. Not an uncommon item, and absolutely destroys your Smeargle. Smeargle is simply stopped by too many Pokemon for this to work. Anything with Fake Out, Taunt, a faster sleep, immunity to Normal, Sand Stream or Snow Warning, Lum Berry, a faster Substitute, and whatever I've forgotten will beat Smeargle 100% of the time. Pokemon that flinchhax will win 60% of the time. This is a vast portion of the metagame. Smeargle will win against anything else, but that's not enough. Smeargle is unviable for the same reason as Shedinja in OU: there are simply too many threats to it.

Nevertheless, that's a promising train of thought. Maybe a different sleeper/endeavor user will have better luck.
 
Acritter said:
Maybe a different sleeper/endeavor user will have better luck.
Click to expand...
There's always Level 1 Endeavor...but Cleffa, who has Magic Guard, doesn't have any + priority attacks, and those that do get stopped by faster + priority, Fake Out, Taunt, ghosts (if you do not have Scrappy Ability), sand or hail (if you're not immune), or status moves during Endeavor (not all of which are certain to work, for example paralysis has a 6.25% chance of working: 25% on the Endeavor, followed by 25% on the + priority). Even 0 speed Brave Munchlax (at Level 100) outspeeds all Level 1's (13 to probably 6 or 7)
 
Pika25 said:
There's always Level 1 Endeavor...but Cleffa, who has Magic Guard, doesn't have any + priority attacks, and those that do get stopped by faster + priority, Fake Out, Taunt, ghosts (if you do not have Scrappy Ability), sand or hail (if you're not immune), or status moves during Endeavor (not all of which are certain to work, for example paralysis has a 6.25% chance of working: 25% on the Endeavor, followed by 25% on the + priority). Even 0 speed Brave Munchlax (at Level 100) outspeeds all Level 1's (13 to probably 6 or 7)
Click to expand...

Endeavor might not be so viable after all. By the way, your calculations on Parahax working are really, really messed up. You're calculating the chance of Parahax striking during BOTH the Endeavor and priority. It only needs to strike during one. To calculate the chance of it hitting in either of the two, we can take 1 and subtract the chance of it hitting on NEITHER, which is .75x.75 or .5625, putting the probability of Parahax working at .4375, or 43.75%.
 
Acritter said:
Endeavor might not be so viable after all. By the way, your calculations on Parahax working are really, really messed up. You're calculating the chance of Parahax striking during BOTH the Endeavor and priority. It only needs to strike during one. To calculate the chance of it hitting in either of the two, we can take 1 and subtract the chance of it hitting on NEITHER, which is .75x.75 or .5625, putting the probability of Parahax working at .4375, or 43.75%.
Click to expand...
That's what I should have said, and meant. I really meant OR not AND.

But that's still below half anyway, so Endeavor is still more likely to win in that case. Factor in the chances of paralyze:(Move, Ac, Para, Total)
Zap Cannon, 50%, 100%, 50%
Discharge, 100%, 30%, 30%
Thunder, 70%, 30%, 21%
and so on, then multiply that by 43.75% (in the case of Thunder 9.1875%).
 
Pika25 said:
That's what I should have said, and meant. I really meant OR not AND.

But that's still below half anyway, so Endeavor is still more likely to win in that case. Factor in the chances of paralyze:(Move, Ac, Para, Total)
Zap Cannon, 50%, 100%, 50%
Discharge, 100%, 30%, 30%
Thunder, 70%, 30%, 21%
and so on, then multiply that by 43.75% (in the case of Thunder 9.1875%).
Click to expand...

This is all showing how incredibly unviable Endeavor is, as it is unable to even secure 100% victories against Pokemon that it is designed to destroy (in this case, Electric-types that are spamming attacks). Your calculations are correct, I believe.

Who knows, maybe if the metagame ends up stabilizing around Pokemon that are weak to Endeavor, Pokemon like Smeargle could end up being viable. Until then, I'm sticking to my Torment Infernape.
 
Why would you ban sash? It's not that imbalanced, as the metagame WILL NOT revolve around OHKOing everything in sight. Already mentioned, but YES, Deoxys-D needs a ban, as Recover+Cosmic Power beats most OU attackers.

Meh, 1v1 is a lot like Rock-Paper-Scissors. X is hard countered by Y, which is hard countered by Z, which is hard countered by X.

Oh, and ban Wobbuffet. It beats too many things with Encore+Coat. Plus it'd make for some really boring battles. Wobbuffet v Wobbuffet *shudder*
 
Doesn't a DDNite crap all over Jirachi? Unless it TrickScarves you, but then couldn't you use a Choice Band? Then it's locked into Trick and you're hitting especially hard every other time.
 
Um, putting my two cents' worth.

Lead Yanmega (Speed Boost) works REALLY well in 1vs1.
I mean, protect, then Hypnosis, then Bug Buzz, or Air Slash depending on opponent.
And since Sash would be banned, you could use Wide Lens to ease the 60% acc. on Hypnosis, and make Air Slash a guaranteed hit.
What do you guys think?
 
For the lvl 1 cleffa thing you could use weathering like hail as a proprity move since not to much things resist hail and only ghost can actually block endevour. Just a suggestion.
 
Sy123 said:
Slaking@ Choice Band
Adamant
192 HP/252 Atk/64 Def
~Giga Impact
~Earthquake
~Fire Punch
~Shadow Claw

nuff said
Click to expand...


I was thinking the same thing about Giga Impact. I mean, what other than ghosts and bulky rocks/steels isn't OHKO'd by an adamant, STAB, giga impact from a base 160 atk stat?
 
Me either how about this:

Porygon-Z@ Choice Specs/Scarf
Modest
Adaptability
~Hyper Beam
~Thunderbolt/HP Fighting
~Ice Beam
~Shadow Ball

Coverage? Anyone
 
-FUCK- said:
What utility does protect have in this metagame besides beating Slaking? (Just curious, I don't really know much about this metagame)
Click to expand...

It also helps with moves like Yawn and to predict moves with things like CounterCoat Swampert. I'm not sure about what else it helps with.
 
Diploman said:
It also helps with moves like Yawn and to predict moves with things like CounterCoat Swampert. I'm not sure about what else it helps with.
Click to expand...

Wishing, countering Fake Out, Tormenting Choice users, identifying Choice moves, giving SS/Hail time to work, and so on. Protect skips over a turn, so for anything where you need to skip turns, Protect will help you. Yanmega is an excellent example.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top