NP: UU - Silent Night

[Demoness]

To something different, I've been trying out Restalk Registeel with Curse and Iron Head and it's been working out quite well and I don't know why it isin't used much because it's quite hard to take down if you let it curse up at all. The only things that stop it are strong special attackers, crits, and Psychical attacks before cursing.


Edit: I'm also noticing a confusing lack of Spinners. Last round, I was facing quite a few of them, now i've faced like 3? And I havn't faced nearly as meny Moltres as lats round.

 

[Viashino_wizard]

Yeah but sleep does not make a pokemon broken, venusaur can be countered by a lot of things and it doesn´t help that once a pokemon it asleep it can´t touch fire types who are on every team

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I don't think Venasaur is broken at all, I was just saying that a comparison between it and Breloom doesn't work that well (especially considering how much more varied Vensaur is).

To something different, I've been trying out Restalk Registeel with Curse and Iron Head and it's been working out quite well and I don't know why it isin't used much because it's quite hard to take down if you let it curse up at all. The only things that stop it are strong special attackers, crits, and Psychical attacks before cursing.

I actually have a lot of success with CurseTalk Registeel. It's nice when an opponent switches in their T-Wave absorber only to find out they just gave you a free curse.

 

[SJCrew]

Because Grass Knot with 100 power will beat something with 95/125 defenses every time right?

Of course it will, are you stupid?

I actually have a lot of success with CurseTalk Registeel. It's nice when an opponent switches in their T-Wave absorber only to find out they just gave you a free curse.

Rhyperior absorbs Twave. Donphan absorbs Twave. They switch into Registeel all the time and it has no hope of beating either. >_>

 

[Heysup]

In general I am just very unimpressed by Pokemon like Scyther, Swellow, and Moltres. Maybe it's my playstyle, but I just hate Pokemon that are like "it has one big weakness but if you play around it, it can be really good". I couldn't even use Yanmega properly the last time it was down here (although obviously I agreed that it was broken). The Pokemon I like best are Pokemon like Arcanine, Venusaur, and Rotom, who can consistently pull off multiple sets easily and still function fairly well if their ideal conditions are not met. One-dimensional Pokemon like Scyther and Swellow almost never find a spot on my team and almost never sweep me anymore unless my game is off.

cough

And additionally, as a user of these Pokemon who are "awesome but have one major weakness", I generally try to build my teams around this weakness. I use teams with this in mind: "man if they have the one Pokemon that stops me I'll abuse that Pokemon with my other Pokemon". Aka Moltres + Venusaur (fuk Milotic) or Azumarill + Venusaur (fuk Leafeon/Tangrowth) etc. Yea Venusaur is awesome.

 

[elchupo]

Playing around CB Scyther is like playing around SD Absol. Sure Absol has absolutely scary damage potential (being able to ko techtop after residual damage with sucker punch = wtf) but it's not that hard to beat if you predict around. Same with Scyther. If it comes in on Toxicroak, I'm staying in, eating the 4x U-Turn, and hitting whatever comes in hard. And if I think it'll attack the next time, I always have Rhyperior. It's even better when they lock themselves into Quick Attack to avoid Sucker Punch or revenge Sceptile or something, because then I go to Spiritomb and lolpursuit.

In general I am just very unimpressed by Pokemon like Scyther, Swellow, and Moltres. Maybe it's my playstyle, but I just hate Pokemon that are like "it has one big weakness but if you play around it, it can be really good". I couldn't even use Yanmega properly the last time it was down here (although obviously I agreed that it was broken). The Pokemon I like best are Pokemon like Arcanine, Venusaur, and Rotom, who can consistently pull off multiple sets easily and still function fairly well if their ideal conditions are not met. One-dimensional Pokemon like Scyther and Swellow almost never find a spot on my team and almost never sweep me anymore unless my game is off.

The reason why it's worth "playing around" the weakness is that Pokemon like the three you mentioned pose a MASSIVE threat to most teams. Scyther laughs in Venusaurs face, and Hitmontops, and Milotics, and many, many others.

Maybe it's that fact that I don't run U-turn, but so many teams are simply unprepared for it that things end dying horribly.

I would rather play around a weakness on a Pokemon I see as worth it than put Venusaur, Milotic, Registeel etc on a team and call it good.

Funny that you mention unimpressive Pokemon, because Venusaur is one such Pokemon that, for me, is that. About the only thing it can do before it is stopped dead is put things to sleep, and even at that it is outclassed.

 

[Bluewind]

Funny that you mention unimpressive Pokemon, because Venusaur is one such Pokemon that, for me, is that. About the only thing it can do before it is stopped dead is put things to sleep, and even at that it is outclassed.

Yeah, it was nominated just because of Sleep Powder and because no one wanted to deal with the puke green sprites... It's not like it keeps the second (and first depending on the set) most used pokémons in check, alongside with 20 other pokés, and deals two lots of pain with Leaf Storm and Sludge Bomb that only Chansey, Weezing and Registeel won't mind taking (that much). Silly people for thinking that...

EDIT: The second part of your post (about the only thing...outclassed) seems more than an opinion to me, and I'd like to hear what outclasses it.

 

[elchupo]

Yeah, it was nominated just because of Sleep Powder and because no one wanted to deal with the puke green sprites... It's not like it keeps the second (and first depending on the set) most used pokémons in check, alongside with 20 other pokés, and deals two lots of pain with Leaf Storm and Sludge Bomb that only Chansey, Weezing and Registeel won't mind taking (that much). Silly people for thinking that...

... I didn't say it was fact, I just stated my opinion.

 

[Xenoxeran]

Ok, I understand then, Roflkip. Thank you.

 

[PK Gaming]

When Crobat was removed, didn't Yanmega get better (it got banned)? Getting "better doesn't have to mean that the Pokemon's stats or move changed, it just means the metagame changed and this Pokemon better fits it (in this case, due to its most prominent counter being removed).

Ah right. I knew I shouldn't have bothered to talk about Yanmega. I never played during that period (or Crobat's for that matter) but I get your point. I mean look at what happened when Froslass and Raikou got the banhammer...



So that's it then. No CCAT? Sigh, I guess it's back to discussing about trivial UU stuff.

Say you guys, you know what's a good pokemon to use? Absol, that SD set is killer and setting up is easier than one may think (especially when you have an amazing encore user like Clefable) It's also a greta ghost killer (I lol when they sub)

SD Venusaur is still pretty cool you know. Back to the classics I say...

 

[Alchemator]

So that's it then. No CCAT? Sigh, I guess it's back to discussing about trivial UU stuff.

Incorrect, it's time to break out the gimmicks! Something that I've been taking a gander at is Hypno. With excellent special bulk, a sleep-immunity and usable offenses it really looks rather promising.

It seems that its biggest problem is fitting everything it wants [needs?] into four moves. For example, Nasty Plot [or Calm Mind] is almost necessary if you want any considerable damage output. But then what about your weak physical defense? You can be expected to be hit on the physical side since Hypno isn't outspeeding anything. This means that you probably need Reflect. Then you probably need Wish for recovery.

But then you'd only have Psychic as an attacking move, and this is where the problem arises. Even if you drop Wish or Reflect in favour of Hidden Power Fighting [I.E. to hit Dark- and Steel-types] you're still walled by the ever-present Spiritomb.

tl;dr: Hypno probably has potential. Though not without major drawbacks it's definitely the kind of Pokemon we should be looking into during this stage of the UU metagame.

 

[Angel Diva]

Hypno will probably want some sort of status move too, like Toxic, Hypnosis(if you want to risk it), or best is probably Thunder Wave. Back in the old UU before Venusaur/Milotic/Moltres etc had been brought down, IIRC Hypno was a pretty great special tank, and I always laugh at Scythers and Absols who switch into Thunder Wave.

Now that I think about it, Hypno and Chansey has almost the same exact moveset.

 

[HiThere]

I've actually been using Hypno, and it's a pretty decent special wall. It resists Fighting, which is great since there's so many prominent fighting types in the UU tier, and can't be put to sleep if you're running Insomnia (Which you should be). It's a nice change from having to use Chansey/Clefable for Wish, and it can spread paralysis too.

 

[Ekanselttar]

I used a Hypno back when every Venusaur you saw was scarfed. Doesn't like taking Power Whips, but is a very nice Venu counter otherwise, and it can even do some damage to the rest of the team after a couple CM's. Houndoom's so common now, though, and it pretty much craps in Hypno's corn flakes.

 

[Thund91]

I've used Hypno since back in old UU, and it has always remained consistent. I like running some physical defense though.

But I fail to see how Hypno is a gimmick???

 

[HiThere]

Standard Nasty Plot sweeper Houndoom does 54.5% - 64.7% with Dark Pulse vs 252 HP / 200 SpDef Hypno. This means Hypno can still paralyze Houndoom, and switch out, not to mention Hypno should also carry Light Screen. The first thing I try to do when I bring Hypno in is set up a Light Screen (Or Reflect, whichever I'm using), which is a pretty safe option.

But I do see what you mean, Hypno can't actually beat Houndoom, and if it's below 50%, it's not going to be able to do anything at all to Houndoom. But if you're running a team that doesn't fear Houndoom, Hypno is a great pokemon.

 

[SJCrew]

I think Grumpig is better. Despite its lack of recovery, Thick Fat allows it to wall one of the best special sweepers in the tier with ease and take a nice, strong hit from numerous others. CM and Heal Bell make it even harder to outstall. Really, what the hell is this guy doing in NU?

 

[Rolf]

Again, the presence of Houndoom and Mismagius really hurt it. The Scyther discussion earlier can't be forgotten either... STAB CB U-Turn is what put Cresselia in UU for a time, and part of the reason for the demise of Grumpig and Hypno is again Scyther's U-Turn. Add to that a pretty giant physical presence added to the metagame that loves to scare them out, (hi I'm Rhyperior with a big giant horn to mutilate you with) and they're really quite underwhelming imo.

 

[Thund91]

All Hypno has to do is set up Reflect or use Thunder Wave on the switch to neutralize most switch-ins. A paralyzed Scyther, Houndoom, and Mismagius are useless. With a Reflect up it's also much easier to switch into Rhyperior and Scyther's attacks.

 

[Meru]

I think Grumpig is better. Despite its lack of recovery, Thick Fat allows it to wall one of the best special sweepers in the tier with ease and take a nice, strong hit from numerous others. CM and Heal Bell make it even harder to outstall. Really, what the hell is this guy doing in NU?

Thick Fat gives flying resistance? Woah when did they change that? If Moltres with spikes can break Milotic's base 95HP/125SpDef and even easier, Slowking's 95HP/110SpDef, then making a claim about Grumpig's 80HP/110SpDef being enough is absurd.

 

[Rolf]

All Hypno has to do is set up Reflect or use Thunder Wave on the switch to neutralize most switch-ins. A paralyzed Scyther, Houndoom, and Mismagius are useless. With a Reflect up it's also much easier to switch into Rhyperior and Scyther's attacks.

Rhyperior is the first thing I'm bringing in on Hypno, and it sure isn't taking a Megahorn, even behind Reflect. Even if you're running max HP / max Def+ with Reflect up, Rhyperior is still netting a 2HKO on you most of the time with Stealth Rock in play while you never do with Psychic. What do you find yourself switching in on safely, and what set are you running?

 

[Thund91]

Rhyperior is the first thing I'm bringing in on Hypno, and it sure isn't taking a Megahorn, even behind Reflect. Even if you're running max HP / max Def+ with Reflect up, Rhyperior is still netting a 2HKO on you most of the time with Stealth Rock in play while you never do with Psychic. What do you find yourself switching in on safely, and what set are you running?

I've been using my own special Hypno set ever since a bit after I first started using it, but the set is Thunder Wave/Reflect/Psychic/Wish. I find Protect not all that useful so the addition of Reflect and status move is superior.

Hypno can switch into a shitload of stuff like Milotic, Slowbro, Chansey, Venusaur (my set), Lanturn, Hitmontop, Hitmonlee (my set), mostly weak walls and that's the whole point. I use Hypno as a team supporter. It switches in, sets up Reflect + Wish, and aids the team. That's why it's useful to pair with walls that lack recovery (like Registeel, Steelix, Rotom, and the like) and Pokemon that appreciate the support.

And lol. Do you really think someone is going to keep Hypno in as you send in Rhyperior? I'll just set up Reflect on the switch than go to my Rhyperior counter who will laugh at it. I have 6 Pokemon not just Hypno.

 

[SJCrew]

Thick Fat gives flying resistance? Woah when did they change that? If Moltres with spikes can break Milotic's base 95HP/125SpDef and even easier, Slowking's 95HP/110SpDef, then making a claim about Grumpig's 80HP/110SpDef being enough is absurd.

What does Grumpig need a Flying resistance for? Moltres doesn't do much damage to it at all. It can KO back with Power Gem or set up CMs on it and take it out with Psychic, especially if it's that SubRoost set.

And where are all the Spikes? Omastar and Cloyster have a really hard time setting up this round (at best, I've occasionally seen one layer of Spikes from a half-competent player, but Donphan usually spins them out). I don't even bother with anything but SR this round because all the Spikes users left aren't good or consistent enough to lay a minefield and keep it there. Now are you guys starting to see the virtue in having a spikestacker that doubles as a spinblocker? :P

Oh and btw, Hypno and Grumpig have access to both CM and Grass Knot. It'll be a rude awakening for the players that get too bold and a victory for the ones that wise up.

 

[Meru]

What does Grumpig need a Flying resistance for? Moltres doesn't do much damage to it at all. It can KO back with Power Gem or set up CMs on it and take it out with Psychic, especially if it's that SubRoost set.

And where are all the Spikes? Omastar and Cloyster have a really hard time setting up this round (at best, I've occasionally seen one layer of Spikes from a half-competent player, but Donphan usually spins them out). I don't even bother with anything but SR this round because all the Spikes users left aren't good or consistent enough to lay a minefield and keep it there. Now are you guys starting to see the virtue in having a spikestacker that doubles as a spinblocker? :P

Oh and btw, Hypno and Grumpig have access to both CM and Grass Knot. It'll be a rude awakening for the players that get too bold and a victory for the ones that wise up.

Special Sweeper Moltres with Air Slash 2HKO's the standard CM Sweeper Grumpig, and if you put all your EVs into HP and SpDef (no defense/SpA as a CM sweeper lawl) then you're still 3HKO'd by the potential air slash flinch.

And Power Gem? Would you like me to bring in calcs of Moltres using Hidden Power Ghost/Dark/Bug?

 

[Thund91]

Special Sweeper Moltres with Air Slash 2HKO's the standard CM Sweeper Grumpig, and if you put all your EVs into HP and SpDef (no defense/SpA as a CM sweeper lawl) then you're still 3HKO'd by the potential air slash flinch.

And Power Gem? Would you like me to bring in calcs of Moltres using Hidden Power Ghost/Dark/Bug?

Grumpig's analysis was written a long ass time ago. Power Gem is a viable option if you're using it as your Moltres counter.

 

[SJCrew]

Special Sweeper Moltres with Air Slash 2HKO's the standard CM Sweeper Grumpig, and if you put all your EVs into HP and SpDef (no defense/SpA as a CM sweeper lawl) then you're still 3HKO'd by the potential air slash flinch.

Air Slash 2HKOs in Moltres's dreams: 42.3% - 50.3%. Not happening with Leftovers.

Plus, Grumpig is faster than the Modest Moltres you used for the calc, so it can really just CM in its face and watch it do nothing about it. Then you try to be clever and switch out or Roost, so I laugh and put a sub up.

Specially defensive Grumpig...sorry, but you're not getting past it. Air Slash on a Modest nature 4HKOs even if you roll max every single time. And that's assuming it's not running Timid (as plenty of, if not most people do nowadays) or you're even hitting it with Air Slash on the switch-in. Moltres isn't going to run HP Dark for Grumpig, as bulky Water types are way, way more prevalent. But I get to run Power Gem for Moltres because I'm on the defensive and don't have to worry about sweeping. :)

What sets Grumpig apart from special walls like Milotic and stuff is really the movepool; CM, Heal Bell, and Twave, as well as all the crap Psychics normally learn (Taunt, Focus Blast, Grass Knot, Trick Room) all go a long way in making it useful. Unfortunately that lack of recovery is a real turnoff for most players (but not me, I'm insane).