First OU RMT - Gravity Team

[ethersol]

This is my first time posting on RMT, and I'm hoping for some input on my Gravity Team.
I've never tried it before and figured it would make for an interesting change, rather than the standard rain dance or trick room doubles teams I've seen (even though they are also awesome).

Clauses:

OU Doubles
Standard Clauses
Dark Void is banned

My Team at a Glance:

Overall Strategy: So my main goal is to get Gravity up and running with Starmie as soon as it's on the field--using its speed as an advantage to cast, and to then have Porygon2 take full advantage of the situation and use Zap Cannon/Blizzard to Paralyze/hurt my opponent.
I also have Swampert to hit with Blizzard and Muddy Water being good synergy, and Dusknoir/Starmie/Porygon2 to recast Gravity when needed, as it is crucial to maintain maximum benefit of my team's move pool which is based solely around Gravity being in effect.

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Gravity Team:

Starmie @ Expert Belt
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Timid (+ Spe, - Atk)
EVs: 252 SpA | 252 Spe | 4 HP

- Hydro Pump

- Thunder

- Blizzard

- Gravity

Starmie is always awesome, but with Gravity I can now afford to use the lower accuracy moves like Hydro Pump, Thunder and Blizzard, allowing for a more diverse range of attack AND a better chance at OHKOing my opponents with 120 power--and Expert Belt with 20% more damage if it's Super Effective.
Starmie is definitely my fastest Pokémon at casting Gravity, so getting it out on the field at the very beginning and keeping it up is crucial.

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Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
Nature: Modest (+ SpA, -Atk)
EVs: 252 HP | 4 Def | 252 SpA

- Gravity

- Zap Cannon

- Blizzard

- Recover

Porygon2 is my other Lead, as he has pretty decent defence and is obviously capable of using Gravity. Also with Gravity in play, I can then use Zap Cannon which will always guarantee me a Paralysis (providing they're not immune to it), and then I can use Blizzard without worrying about the poor accuracy, and recover + leftovers to help him last a bit longer.

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Dusknoir @ Lum Berry
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Relaxed (+ Def, - Spe)
EVs: 252 HP | 252 Def | 4 Spe

- Dynamic Punch

- Pain Split

- Shadow Sneak

- Gravity

Dusknoir is another Pokémon who can cast Gravity, and has decent enough stats that I figured he would work well on my team. His immunity to Explosion also makes things easier, and means I don't have to waste a move slot on Protect. Shadow Sneak is there to guarantee first strike and to take out already severely weakened targets quickly and efficiently.
Dynamic Punch will now have an accuracy of 83.5, so hopefully the majority of the time I can confuse my opponent, while Pain Split is there to provide some recovery for Dusknoir.

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Swampert @ Rindo Berry
Ability: Torrent
Nature: Relaxed (+ Def, - Spe)
Evs: 252 HP | 80 Def | 176 SpDef

- Muddy Water

- Earthquake

- Protect

- Blizzard

I think Swampert could work very well, I've used a slightly different Swampert before in a doubles battle and he saved my ass a lot. Muddy Water is perfect considering it doesn't hit any of my other team members, and is a decent enough move--and Blizzard to hit hard and protect to stall/see what moves my opponent has up their sleeve.

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Tangrowth @ Big Root
Ability: Chlorophyll
Nature: Impish (+ Def, - SpA)
EVs: 252 HP | 228 Def | 28 Spe

- Power Whip

- Sleep Powder

- Protect

- Leech Seed

Tangrowth's moves will be a lot more effective with Gravity up and running, and can take a hit from Earthquake which will prove useful in a doubles match. He'd also be good at stalling when needed with Protect, and gaining health back with Leech Seed + Big Root which increases regained HP by 30% more, and in general is providing a better type coverage.

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Metagross @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
EVs: 252 HP | 248 Atk | 8 Spe

- Meteor Mash

- Explosion

- ThunderPunch

- Gravity

I've decided he can make use of casting Gravity, as well as being able to hit hard with Meteor Mash and ThunderPunch. When things are looking grim, I can go out with a bang and use Explosion (making sure I either have Dusknoir out at the time, or someone with Protect).

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Weakness/Resistance Chart:

So as you can see I have a few weaknesses that could be potentially very threatening--especially against Grass, Ghost, Dark, Fire and Bug. I'm looking to minimise this, but also at the same time keep Gravity intact, so I am a little limited in that department, but I'm sure that can be overcome with some thought.

Closing Comments: I'm open for as much help as possible, so if you think something won't work well, or even replacing a team member—please let me know and I'll look over suggestions and make changes as where suggested. No single Pokémon is set in concrete at the moment, this is just something I have put some thought into. I haven't done a great deal of competitive battling, but I am still familiar with it (from what I have participated in and accomplished), but I'm looking to learn as much as I can from anyone willing to help.

 

[ethersol]

bump~

 

[cosmicexplorer]

I'm not a good rater yet, but I think that I may be able to help a bit. As a lead, Forretress is bad unless you have an plan to take down the most common OU leads, who will simply Taunt your Forretress. If you really like a Spiker lead, I've heard that Skarmory is a useful lead that can provide support and wall stuff. Porygon2 is a good idea, but make sure when you switch in Dusknoir to combat Machamp and other Fighting-Types, that you aren't hit with a Payback. You can take it if Machamp launches it at you a turn after you switch, but not as you switch. You don't need Heal Bell; only Porygon2 will care about status, and it's not a wall destroying kind of pokemon anyway. It's mainly there to cripple opposing sweepers with Zap Cannon. Which leads me to my next thought. You need something that can take Blissey if Dugtrio's down, basically a wall-breaker. I would suggest MixMence for this; its can also help your team take out troublesome sweepers slower than him. As a matter of fact, I would suggest taking out Dugtrio and putting in Mence as Dugtrio's low Attack will not let it OHKO the things it needs to OHKO and they will kill Dugtrio. With Arena Trap being as useful as it is in Gravity, though, I think Dugtrio is a great idea. Maybe you should replace Celebi with it, but test that before using it. Also, I believe SR isn't very useful with Gravity in effect, doing half the damage it normally would, but check that because I'm not sure. Also, I don't see Protect as being very useful, and I see Toxic Spikes as being very useful, so I would suggest that over Protect, unless you have a reason for having Protect on it. I like this team and it looks good.

 

[dr00]

you've got a big ghost/dark/rock weakness. another steel type would help this, but i can't think of anyone offhand.

tyranitar would help cover the dark/ghost weakness and replace celebi

the tyranitar lead set:

Chesto Berry
Adamant
252 HP / 32 Atk / 224 SpD
~ Stone Edge Rock Slide
~ Payback
~ Rest / Earthquake Protect
~ Stealth Rock

with chople berry perhaps as the hold item could do well as a replacement, and will add lots of residual damage to your opponent
and put protect on him somewhere as well.



another possibility is a mixpert
rindo berry
relaxed
252 hp / 80 def / 176 spdef (gives even defenses)
- muddy water
- earthquake
- protect
- stealth rock / roar

stealth rock as you won't have any other way to get it out onto the field, but roar can help with the residual damage.

muddy water is great in a gravity team as it will have 100% accuracy, will only hit your opponents, and have a 30% chance of lowering accuracy.

 

[ethersol]

You need something that can take Blissey if Dugtrio's down, basically a wall-breaker. I would suggest MixMence for this; its can also help your team take out troublesome sweepers slower than him. As a matter of fact, I would suggest taking out Dugtrio and putting in Mence as Dugtrio's low Attack will not let it OHKO the things it needs to OHKO and they will kill Dugtrio. With Arena Trap being as useful as it is in Gravity, though, I think Dugtrio is a great idea.

Yeah, well i hope you realise this is for doubles battle? so yeah, having dugtrio is actually quite good for a gravity team.
although i definitely agree about having a change somewhere.

Maybe you should replace Celebi with it, but test that before using it. Also, I believe SR isn't very useful with Gravity in effect, doing half the damage it normally would, but check that because I'm not sure. Also, I don't see Protect as being very useful, and I see Toxic Spikes as being very useful, so I would suggest that over Protect, unless you have a reason for having Protect on it. I like this team and it looks good.

i believe SR does normal damage in gravity, and once again being a doubles battle i think protect would be pretty essential?
but thanks for your input and thought, i am definitely reconsidering my team a little. quite possibly replacing celebi for someone else.

 

[TheAppetizer]

I believe SR does normal damage in gravity, and once again being a doubles battle i think protect would be pretty essential?
but thanks for your input and thought, i am definitely reconsidering my team a little. quite possibly replacing Celebi for someone else.

The only thing I think protect would be good for is to block your own earthquake.
EDIT: Blissey could replace Celebi. It can do everything Celebi does except use SR.
EDIT EDIT: Forgot to compliment you on trying something new! I never would have thought of making a gravity team!

 

[JojoX3]

@TheAppetizer Celebi is the only Ground Resistance here, which is needed even more in Gravity.

@Team I do like Dugtrio for his great potential and ability, but imo it doesn´t help much in this case. Earthquake will most likely hurt you more than your opponent, as you don´t really have many Protect users and only Celebi for resisting, while experienced 2on2 players will most likely have their team full of Protect to render your EQ useless. There are plenty of good options over Dugtrio(I don´t think you need Arena trap that badly)

 

[Muffinmanifestation]

The Bold nature on Porygon2 lowers Attack, not Sp. Attack. Just letting you know.

 

[ethersol]

The Bold nature on Porygon2 lowers Attack, not Sp. Attack. Just letting you know.

ooh cheers for that, i mis-read that. i will edit that! and i only just noticed that for some reason serebii.net claims that dusknoir doesn't learn dynamic punch, yet smogon does.

can anyone tell me why this is? i'm a little confused, and if he can't learn it i might have to replace the move with something like focus blast.

 

[STEELDRAGON]

aw, gravity one of my favorite types of "conditions." First I would switch Dusknoir to one of your leads, probably replacing Porygon2, because then you use Explosion more easily, and dusknoir is a very reialble lead. Also, I would suggest changing shadow ball on Dusknoir to shadow punch, or shadow sneak. Also, I might replace Poygon2 with Blissey, because it is much studier, and it has natural cure. I would recommend putting rapid spin on fortress, to spin away the oponnet's entry hazards. With in gravity can use Sing because it has 92%.

Good luck :)

 

[GaRgAnt]

...Guys. This is a doubles team. I think this should have gone into the Other Teams subforum, but whatever.

If you want to kick off the Doubles match with Gravity, I recommend you start with Starmie and Porygon2 instead of your current lead combo, which is Forry and Porygon2. Why?

1) Entry hazards do not exist in doubles. There's simply no time to set them up and even if you find time to set it up, it usually means that you have a chance to kill part of the opposition as well. What's better? If you can't get that question right, stop playing doubles immediately.

2) Starmie's fast Gravity activation means that Porygon2 can immediately start firing 82% accurate Zap Cannons/91% accurate Blizzards (If you keep your current moveset). For the sake of maximizing Porygon2's damage output while still keeping a relatively good amount of bulk, I'd advise you to put a Modest nature, stuff 216 EVs into special attack to hit the jump point, and put the final 40 wherever you put and put 252 in HP.

Moving onto the team members beyond the lead- You want to kick Dugtrio and Celebi.

Dugtrio has STAB Earthquake. How nice. One problem- It's hurting the teammate as well. Dugtrio should be replaced by another Gravity abuser, such as Metagross who can run rampant with 100% accurate Meteor Mashes and Zen Headbutts.

Celebi could be used to set Gravity, but I honestly don't feel like it should be doing the job when Lava Plume is such an often-used doubles move. I said something about doubles not having enough space most of the time for entry hazards- You could make an Alakazam as a Gravity setter with Focus Blast to abuse, which is suddenly 91% accurate.

So, that's all I see for now. Otherwise, it's fine.

 

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

I've yet to train a Gravity team, but hopefully I can give some valid input here.

First of all, let's talk about entry hazards in doubles. I can tell you right off the bat that they're not as common or useful as they are in single battles. If you're playing a PBR-style game where you see your opponent's Pokémon before the match and choose 4, then I'd say get rid of them altogether. It looks like you're playing 6v6, though, so entry hazards could potentially provide some value, but you've got to build your team to abuse it.

You probably won't have time to get too many layers of Spikes on the field, so I recommend Stealth Rock as a more efficient hazard. Toxic Spikes is potentially useful, but riskier. In my experience, Gengar and Crobat are very common doubles Pokémon. Once you have Gravity in place, these two Pokémon can switch in and absorb your Toxic Spikes. Toxicroak is also a Rain Dance team staple, and can do the same even without Gravity. Even if Poison-types couldn't absorb Toxic Spikes, residual damage is probably not the best way to go on a Gravity team. Each use of Gravity only provides five turns of the effect. You'll want to maximize the damage you do during that period.

This brings us to your Forretress. I say scrap it. As I mentioned, I don't think you'll be getting much mileage from Spikes or Toxic Spikes. Furthermore, it has anti-synergy with your Porygon2. Once Zap Cannon paralyzes something, the damage that Gyro Ball does to that target is immediately quartered. If you want a Pokémon with Explosion, and you can find something better for that purpose.

For Porygon2, GaRgAnt gave very good advice. Give it a Modest nature and put lots of EVs in HP and SpAtk. I think your moveset is fine. If you find that you're not getting enough chances to use Recover, swap it for Protect, Magic Coat, or Psych Up.

I'd replace Celebi with a more offense-oriented Grass-type. Tangrowth can take Earthquakes well and has no shortage of low-accuracy moves: Power Whip, Sleep Powder, Focus Blast, etc. It learns Earthquake too, for what that's worth. Like I said earlier, once you get Gravity in place, it's all about the damage you can do to your opponent.

Your Starmie looks good, but like GaRgAnt said, I would lead with it. The fast Gravity could really help whatever you pair it with.

Dugtrio is a very, very dangerous Pokémon to use in double battles. For one thing, Weavile and Crobat are extremely popular Pokémon that outspeed it. Also, priority attacks, including Ice Shard, are incredibly common. It's already been mentioned that your team doesn't take STAB Earthquakes all that well. If you really want to keep Dugtrio, give it Focus Sash and put Protect in the last slot.

In answer to your question about Dusknoir, DynamicPunch is a move tutor in the 3rd-gen games (specifically Emerald, if memory serves). So yes, you can have a Dusknoir with DynamicPunch, provided you have a copy of Emerald with an unused DynamicPunch tutor. For your Dusknoir, I'm going to suggest something a little unorthodox. Give it a Brave nature, 252 HP EVs, and 252 Attack EVs. Replace Shadow Ball with Shadow Sneak. Get one with 0 Speed IVs, if possible. It'll help you against Trick Room teams.

Well, that should help get you started. If you're looking for something to replace your Forretress, I like Heracross. Megahorn, Stone Edge, and an Earthquake resist all rolled into one. It also has Feint, in case you get really good at prediction.

 

[ethersol]

Firstly, thanks for a lot of input everyone--it's given me a lot to consider and think over. :)

I'm just going to post up a new "At a glance" with the revisions in short, and see what needs work on, and then edit the main post as i see fit:

At a Glance Revised:

and uncertain on whether the six slot should be:

or

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Swampert @ Rindo Berry
Ability: Torrent
Nature: Relaxed (+ Def, - Spe)
Evs: 252 HP | 80 Def | 176 SpDef

- Muddy Water

- Earthquake

- Protect

- Stealth Rock

I think Swampert could work very well, I've used a slightly different Swampert before in a doubles battle and he saved my ass a lot.
Muddy Water is perfect considering it doesn't hit any of my other team members, and is a decent enough move. I think he could make a decent SR user as well, and would eliminate my need for Celebi on the team.

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Tangrowth @ ?
Ability: Chlorophyll
Nature: Impish (+ Def, - SpA)
EVs: 252 HP | 228 Def | 28 Spe

- Power Whip

- Sleep Powder

- Knock Off

- Leech Seed

I've taken a liking to TheMaskedNitpicker's suggestion for this guy, his moves will be a lot more effective with Gravity up and running, and can take a hit from Earthquake which will prove useful. I'm not too certain about a hold item though, as I have an item clause in place.
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Heracross @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Guts
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk | 4 Def | 252 Spe

- Megahorn

- Stone Edge

- Close Combat

- Night Slash

An interesting suggestion, Megahorn would benefit from Gravity, as would Stone Edge. I know his speed isn't the greatest so Choice Scarf would be one of the obvious choices for a hold item. Close Combat and Night Slash are for type coverages, but am open for other suggestions.


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OR

Metagross @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP | 236 Atk | 12 Def | 8 Spe

- Meteor Mash

- Explosion

- ThunderPunch

- Earthquake

Can't say I'm too keen on the Earthquake being there, considering Dusknoir is the only one that can avoid the move...but I'm leaving it there for the time being, unless anyone else has a better suggestion.
I could pull that move off as a last resort, but I'm hoping there might be something better suited.

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This is with Tangrowth and Metagross.

and this is with Tangrowth and Heracross

 

[Muffinmanifestation]

Dusknoir learns DynamicPunch as a Dusclops from an Emerald Move Tutor. I found this out the hard way when I made my Gravity team.

i.e. It never came into actual being.

 

[dr00]

you should almost always go with rock slide over stone edge in doubles.

dusknoir will not avoid earthquake either as its ability is pressure and gravity will most likely be out anyway.

that said, go with metagross, but do gravity / meteor mash / filler / filler

of the filler slots: explosion, thunderpunch, ice punch, bullet punch, pursuit, and of course protect are all useful



switch knock off with protect on tangrowth as item clause is on and you won't be seeing too many leftovers or anything like that.

 

[ethersol]

@dr00 oh yeah you're right, idk why i thought that about dusknoir. must have confused that with the whole explosion thing. i'm so tired -o-; lol

but thanks for your input, i shall begin updating the main post. :)

any other kinks, feel free to point them out!

 

[dr00]

yeah, i meant to say. shuca berry on metagross.

 

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

Yeah, I agree with dr00. Definitely put Shuca Berry on Metagross.

As for the Tangrowth, the one you have now (from the Smogon Strategydex) is great for single battles, but you'll want something else for doubles. I recommend something like this:

Tangrowth
• Power Whip
• Focus Blast
• Sludge Bomb
• Sleep Powder

Item: Yache Berry
Ability: Chlorophyll
Nature: Quiet
EVs: 196 HP, 76 Attack, 236 SpDef

You need the different attack types in order to deal as much damage as possible while Gravity is in place. Knock Off and Leech Seed don't really fit on the team. Sludge Bomb may seem like an odd choice, but if you have Metagross instead of Heracross, Sludge Bomb will be your team's only way to deal reliable damage to Ludicolo. Yache Berry allows you to take an Ice-type attack from a Water- or Ice-type Pokémon and then counter with a crippling Power Whip or Focus Blast. Chlorophyll beats Leaf Guard since you're not using a Trick Room team.

The Tangrowth in the analyses is made to be a physical wall, hence all the EVs in HP and Defense. In doubles, there isn't much use for a physical wall or a special wall. That's why you don't see Blissey very often. Your Tangrowth needs to be able to take special hits, and it needs to be able to deal damage across the board. So you need all those EVs in SpDef. It'll reduce the damage it takes from special attacks by about 1/3. That's huge. The EVs in Attack and the Quiet nature give boosts to your Attack and SpAtk respectively.

 

[ethersol]

@TheMaskedNitpicker ah I see, I tried Tangrowth out last night in battles and it seemed to do okay, but I think I agree with the move pools. Not very often did I feel I had time to set up leech seed, when instead I could be using that time to attack the opponent.

I probably used Leech Seed twice, and although it was nice--I think it's best to be taking my opponent down as quickly as possible. I did change Knock Off for Protect, and that did help against Ice/Fire attacks when I was able to predict them, but I'll give your suggestion a shot and see how that fares. :)