Primeape (Sub + Encore)

Scoopapa

Scoopapa

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http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/primeape

This is a fairly simple set that the previous analysis entirely overlooks.

[SET]
name: Encore
move 1: Substitute / U-turn
move 2: Encore
move 3: Close Combat
move 4: Stone Edge/Toxic
item: Leftovers
ability: Vital Spirit
nature: Jolly
evs: 8 HP / 248 Atk / 252 Spe

Why this set deserves to be on-site
-Disrupts the opponent and halts their momentum with Encore.
-causes tons of switches, and so can rack up entry hazard damage nicely.
-can protect the team from some boosting threats.
-prevents/wins endgame stall wars very effectively
-has certain advantages over fellow fast Encore users:
---can switch in on Sleep moves and Encore them
---Close Combat is ~10% stronger than Zam's Psychic
---resists Pursuit
---Close Combat > Focus Punch (Poliwrath, Raichu)
---arguably better two move coverage than Zam or Raichu.
-base 95 Speed and 105 Attack with a 120 BP STAB move are enough to be very threatening if you manage to remove Primeape's counters.

Additional Comments
-Leftovers allows surprising longevity. Encore gives lots of turns for recovery, and SR resistance is helpful. Primeape can generally stay healthy enough early on that he can take a moderate hit (but probably just one) when he needs to.
-Stone Edge seems like the best choice for OHKOing Moltres and having the strongest neutral hit of any of the coverage options.
-EV's allow you to use Substitute 5 times with Leftovers recovery.
-U-turn is an option of Substitute to scout counters on the switch, and can even let Primeape get past them on it's own with entry hazard support and the right teammate to force them out after U-turn. Without Substitute, Life Orb becomes a great option.

Teammates and counters
-Pair Primeape with at least two kinds of entry hazards for the best results.
-Setup pokemon who can take advantage of an Encore-locked opponent.
-Drapion is a good example as it can set up or lay down hazards, and has immunity to one of Primeape's weaknesses.
-Countered by most physical walls or tanks, although those without instant recovery (such as Donphan) will have a tough time forcing out Primeape more than once.
-Venusaur / Milotic cores give it trouble, so teammates who can set up on them are a good idea. Entry hazards also help with this.
 
I use a similar set with U-turn instead of Substitute and it works decent.
You have to be careful though about what move you Encore as Primeape's defenses are not that great.
 
I must say that I love this set! I've been using it since yesterday and it's probably my favorite pokemon currently. Were you the guy who was running it on the ladder?
 
I've just finished testing this set. It's great and definately deserves a spot on the strategy dex.

Oh and I've also tried a "gimmicky" variant with Punishment instead of Stone Edge and it worked really good despite less base power and the loss of coverage against Flying Types.
 
Delko said:
I use a similar set with U-turn instead of Substitute and it works decent.
You have to be careful though about what move you Encore as Primeape's
Click to expand...

I think slashing Encore onto the Life Orb set would be better than slashing U-turn onto this set. Substitute is probably the most frequently used move on the set, while the Life Orb set could lose one of it's coverage moves for Encore. Without Sub, I'd probably run Life Orb, anyway.

Darkamber8828 said:
Obligatory Ice Punch slash for Venusaur and, uh, Gligar?
Click to expand...

Might be worth a slash or mention. Venusaur is a worthy target, especially with Vital Spirit. Lack of PP (CC, Encore, SE) and hatred of 80% accuracy moves are other reasons to justify a slash. You don't gain much coverage other than Venusaur and Torterra, though, and Ice Punch loses out on a lot of OHKOes and 2HKOes that Stone Edge gets.

Flamewheeler said:
I must say that I love this set! I've been using it since yesterday and it's probably my favorite pokemon currently. Were you the guy who was running it on the ladder?
Click to expand...

Thanks! It might have been me. I haven't seen anybody else running it, but I haven't been playing much. If it was with Uxie and Mismagius then probably yes.
 
This set looks great. Have you considered using Toxic over Stone Edge because you easily hit all of the steels for SE with Close Combat. Obviously Venusaur walls that set, but you can always Encore it's Sleep Powder and force it to switch.

Will test this soon.
 
Yay, people are finally respecting encore! I think that U-Turn > subs, as setting up a sub could easily cost you to lose 25% only to be forced to switch... Basically, if offense or stall threatens you more. Encore forces so many switches, it's one of the best momentum combos in the game. That said, it's potentially a worse jumpluff (lower bulk and worse typing for its role) if it runs U-Turn... Just my two cents. Encore is probably the best move in pokemon (besides maybe subs or stealth rock, whatever) and primeape is definately a great user of the move.
 
This looks like a good set, and I'll try it out too. I already know that when many opponents see a Primeape, they instantly think it's Choiced, so this set will cause many surprises. Just warning you in advance that I sometimes have trouble testing new sets, so it might take me a while to respond.

EDIT: By the way, you don't have an ability on this set. I would say that Anger Point is the better choice, as there is a chance that a Pokemon gets a crit while breaking the Sub, allowing Primeape to demolish many opponents.
 
Vital Spirit is definitely the better choice. You can switch in on Sleep Powder (however risky that may be) and Encore it for a free sub.
 
I don't usually switch in Pokemon against Sleep Powder, so I forgot about that. Vital Spirit is a great idea.
Anyway, I am loving Primeape on my team. I find that it works well with Toxic Spikes Venomoth, as Venomoth can set up Toxic Spikes easily, as well as hitting any potential problems with Sleep Powder. Toxic Spikes also lures in many Poison-types, which more often than not means Venusaur, and Venomoth can take on Venusaur easily.

EDIT: Other Poison-types that Venomoth can get rid of include Weezing, Toxicroak, and Nidoking.
 
U-turn is good enough to deserve a slash alongside Substitute. Encore is forcing a lot of switches so U-turn will be useful for gaining momentum rather than just losing 25% of your health and doing crap damage to Weezing/Spiritomb or any of the whole host of UU Pokemon that don't mind the Fight/Rock combination. It's also just generally a great move and you can bluff Scarf/function well without ever even using Encore. Finally, it lessens the need for Leftovers somewhat and gives you the option to use Life Orb, Lum Berry or something.

Primeape is cool, good set. Any sleep immunity that forces Venusaur out and isn't dead weight on the team gets the thumbs up from me. Obviously it can also Encore Synthesis which is sometimes a little easier to predict than Sleep Powder.
 
I've added a slash for U-turn, and I think I will add mention of other items in the comments when I mention U-turn. U-turn can definitely help Primeape defeat certain walls (such as Milotic), who can be defeated after being hit by U-turn and switching into entry hazards twice.

I do want to point out that if you Encore something, then use Sub, you will only have lost 12.5% of your health by the time you are forced to switch. If you sub against a support move and then Encore them into it, you will actually gain all of the health back that you lost. If they switch on the Encore, you only lose 6.25% health.
 
Örly said:
Since you slashed U-turn with Encore, I think you should just call the set Encore.
Click to expand...

I think you mean U-Turn with Substitute.

Anyway, I'm surprised that more people haven't been commenting about this set. It's great on my teams, and I personally want this to appear on Primeape's analysis. I know that Pokemon Black and White have come out, but still...
 
I think toxic should be slashed with Stone Edge, but either way I like this set a lot.

Specifically mention all Pursuiters in TO paragraphs though.


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edit: don't feel like posting as usual... approved, but I also think it makes more sense if you just call this "Encore". retagged... ~whistle
 
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