i think you misunderstood me(also is my grammar that bad?). I want fuun to help a shanderaa set up. worry seed is to rid pokemon of no stat downing abilities. this then allows the use of memento to massively aid shanderaa get a set up. also if you simply decide to devote your entire chances of winning on shanderaa then you could add in goth chick to charm or flash for more set up chances.
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Chandelure
- Thread starter tennisace
- Start date
i think you misunderstood me(also is my grammar that bad?). I want fuun to help a shanderaa set up. worry seed is to rid pokemon of no stat downing abilities. this then allows the use of memento to massively aid shanderaa get a set up. also if you simply decide to devote your entire chances of winning on shanderaa then you could add in goth chick to charm or flash for more set up chances.
I'm not digging Flash. Personally, I dislike accuracy modifiers. Memento seems nice, tho.
Anyway, I was testing Flash Fire Shandera. When an opposing Shandy comes in, I protect to scout. If they calm mind, I leech seed. If they go for the Fire Blast, I u-turn into my Flash Fire Scarf Shandy. :3
yeah very iffy on flash but you realize im not trying to use fuun to fight shanderaa. He is suppose to severely weaken the opponent so shanderaa can increase the amount of opponents it can set up on.
If i understood your Strategie right, you want tu use Fuun to set up with Shanderaa, and Fuun+Candle could really work, but even if you get 6 CMs (or Nitro CHarges) I hink, the blue Candle ist just to easy to revenge kill. If you use CM+Nitroboost youve just one Attack or no Substitute, if you just use CM a Faster, Physical Poke will revenge you and if you just use Nitro Charge to get fast I dont know why you use Memento, because you dont need 6+ Speed. So with which Movewset you want to clean if you get your Memento?
If anything, I'd say this pokemon is better with Shadow Tag than Wobuffet. If it comes in on any pokemon that can't significantly harm it, it can set up and then proceed to take out that pokemon, perhaps even sweep an entire team.
Wobuffet does not have the same type of potential, to take out an entire team by itself.
Also...
Almost the same ability=/= the same ability
yes i know and i was thinking sub salac, but scarfers like flygon still really hurt but gaurantees at least 2 kills. honestly not sure what the best way to go is. sub helps a lot when dealing with setting up on statusers. the pot holes in this plan are many and noticeable, but on some teams it will sweep but only on teams without multiple pokemon faster than you after +1 or scarfers.
need somebody to come up an idea to get speeed and calm mind boosts.
nitro charge is so tempting to have it and cm plus 2 attacks. Priority scares me though. (memento helps set up on physical attackers so you can get the 6 cm in)
Theres of Course Calm Mind+Nitro Charge and with Hp-Fight+ Shadow Ball youve got perfekt coverage, but youll lose Substitue.
An other possibility would be, and please dont laugh, to you use Nitrocharke+ Sp.Atk-Berry (I forgot the name) because you would win every speed Tie,you resist or are Immune to Fight+Steel-Priority and have a monstrous Attack over 600 Anyway
Or just use Sub+CM and try to kill the oppenent behind a sup, so that you can kill at least one or two Pokes bzw. the Candle-COunter on the oppenents Team.
Ill think about other possibilitys, but theyre the only i could exspect now^^
An other possibility would be, and please dont laugh, to you use Nitrocharke+ Sp.Atk-Berry (I forgot the name) because you would win every speed Tie,you resist or are Immune to Fight+Steel-Priority and have a monstrous Attack over 600 Anyway
Or just use Sub+CM and try to kill the oppenent behind a sup, so that you can kill at least one or two Pokes bzw. the Candle-COunter on the oppenents Team.
Ill think about other possibilitys, but theyre the only i could exspect now^^
The thing is, Wobbuffet can set up anyone whereas Chanderaa can only set up itself. There are also a lot more pokemon Wobbuffet can set up on/kill due to it's bulk combined with counter and mirror coat. Chanderaa has far less options and is easily revenge killed even with 6 calm minds.
honestly i feel like these are the only viable set up shanderaas and i'm banking on the first one to be the most effective. this is the one id use with the memento set. once it has crazy high speed priority is the only thing that gets it and that is just aquajet and sucker punch and shadow sneak. all of which super effective but only sucker punch can OHKO. this is why i want to try acid armor over nitro charge just to test which would be more effective
Awright, here goes. Keep in mind rain teams wreck shandera regardless.
First, I tested Nitro Charge + Calm Mind. In 10 battles, I could ONLY pull it by encoring a stat boosting move, then switching to Shandy. First, Nitro Charge. Then, spam Calm Mind until their encore ends. Also, it needs to be a special poke, since a Physical poke will kill you eventually.
Next, Sub + Calm Mind. You ensure at least one kill, but so far I've encountered a LOT of random choice scarves (hint: garchomp), sturdy pokes (Skarm will whirlwind you away), etc.
Nitro Charge + Sub, modest nature. Arguably the best choice imo. Fire Blast 3KOs Blissey and 2KO almost everything that doesnt resist it. Nitro Charge at least twice to outrun most Scarf users. Easier said than done.
Nitro Charge + Sub + Calm Mind +Shadow Ball/Flamethrower. Don't do this unless you are sure all of your opponents Flash Firers (or x4 fire resists) are dead. Or, if you run Shadow Ball, make sure to kill all normals. Blissey walls this, since she'll outstall Nitro Charge's PP.
Currently testing:
Choice Scarf with Flash Fire. Fire Blast / Energy Ball / Shadow Ball / HP ground.
"Counters": (constantly updating. I'm in class atm, so I cant post all my experiences at once)
Volt Change and U-turn lol at Shadow Tag so hardcore it isnt fun. Heatran can take a +6 shadow ball and OHKO back with Earth Power (beware sub).
Rain Teams. You need at least 4 Nitro Charges AND a sub to avoid random Aqua Jets.
Garchomp outruns you since most carry choice scarf.
Ditto. This thing is a beast. Seriously.
Tyranitar (beware hp fighting). While it Calm Minds, the on I encountered Dragon Danced. +6 Fire Blast failed to ohko, but life orb recoil killed t-tar.
Kerudio. It cheered up when i calm minded. After 2 turns I shadow ball'd him, but meh, focus sash saved him. He then OHKOd back with hydro pump.
Physical Daikenki. Waterfall + Aqua jet, but Shadow ball caused massive damage at 1 calm mind.
First, I tested Nitro Charge + Calm Mind. In 10 battles, I could ONLY pull it by encoring a stat boosting move, then switching to Shandy. First, Nitro Charge. Then, spam Calm Mind until their encore ends. Also, it needs to be a special poke, since a Physical poke will kill you eventually.
Next, Sub + Calm Mind. You ensure at least one kill, but so far I've encountered a LOT of random choice scarves (hint: garchomp), sturdy pokes (Skarm will whirlwind you away), etc.
Nitro Charge + Sub, modest nature. Arguably the best choice imo. Fire Blast 3KOs Blissey and 2KO almost everything that doesnt resist it. Nitro Charge at least twice to outrun most Scarf users. Easier said than done.
Nitro Charge + Sub + Calm Mind +Shadow Ball/Flamethrower. Don't do this unless you are sure all of your opponents Flash Firers (or x4 fire resists) are dead. Or, if you run Shadow Ball, make sure to kill all normals. Blissey walls this, since she'll outstall Nitro Charge's PP.
Currently testing:
Choice Scarf with Flash Fire. Fire Blast / Energy Ball / Shadow Ball / HP ground.
"Counters": (constantly updating. I'm in class atm, so I cant post all my experiences at once)
Volt Change and U-turn lol at Shadow Tag so hardcore it isnt fun. Heatran can take a +6 shadow ball and OHKO back with Earth Power (beware sub).
Rain Teams. You need at least 4 Nitro Charges AND a sub to avoid random Aqua Jets.
Garchomp outruns you since most carry choice scarf.
Ditto. This thing is a beast. Seriously.
Tyranitar (beware hp fighting). While it Calm Minds, the on I encountered Dragon Danced. +6 Fire Blast failed to ohko, but life orb recoil killed t-tar.
Kerudio. It cheered up when i calm minded. After 2 turns I shadow ball'd him, but meh, focus sash saved him. He then OHKOd back with hydro pump.
Physical Daikenki. Waterfall + Aqua jet, but Shadow ball caused massive damage at 1 calm mind.
also if the nitro charge cm set worked well then going with memento allows more set up availability, and if you have no issue sweeping after that then id say that set is a keeper
The trick is going to be setting up. IF you can bring shandera in on something it counters and IF that thing has no moves which can reasonably harm shandera as you set up, then yes, you just might be able to set up and sweep. However, if this really starts happening, the easy targets for shandera will start using shed shell to escape, the choiced fighting/normal moves will likely decrease in usage, etc. etc.. Whether or not shandera sweeps could easily be very situational.
Wobbuffet, on the other hand, has good enough defenses and HP to take a hit and set up for someone else to come in and do the dirty work. Shandera can't take hits as well, so if you fail to set up probably, your shandera is going down, and fast.
I agree with this. Shandera is turning out to be incredibly difficult to switch in, unless you bring her in after one of your teammates has died.
...Im still loving Shandera. My favorite poke from this gen. <3
That screams Blissey bait.
Shandeera can't support its team at all, now that I think about it. It can't trap the really fearful things and can really only trap scarfers on moves scarfers don't usually use.
This is not true, but it's very close. Shanderaa can trap and kill a variety of threats, and as such help it's team members set up, but there are a lot of things going against it:
-Major pursuit bait
-Wobbuffet traps and beats pretty much everything (which is a hell of a lot more than Shand)
-SR weak, damaged by spikes, poisoned by T-spikes, so not much switching going on
-If it's scarfed, becomes easy setup fodder after making a kill
-If it's sub/CM/Nitro Charge or whatever, there are very few situations where it can reliably set up
Basically what it boils down to is this: If Shanderaa is on your team to be a trapper, sure it'll do its job but Wobbuffet can kill more things, and turn things it can't kill into setup fodder. If it's on your team to abuse it's trapping abilities to set up CMs and attempt a sweep, it can set up on even less pokemon than it can revenge kill. And if you do pull it off, with it's low speed scarfers will usually come in and force it out. And if they don't, priority users will.
Not at all saying it's a bad pokemon, but in most cases it seems to me that there are better options.
Unless Psychic can score a clean OHKO un Kojondo, Ropushin, and all those fighters, I don't see much usage for Psychic... Maybe HP fighting instead, for way better coverage?
I guess it could work. Fire types usually like Grass moves for waters, rocks, and grounds. Personally, I'd pick HP fighting, but Energy Ball doesnt seem too bad, imo.
While an OHKO on Kojondo may seem nice at first glance, a Flamethrower will do 103.3% - 121.8%, also OHKOing it. I don't really see much point in using Psychic here - if it actually got STAB, perhaps, but psychic-type moves have pretty poor coverage and Shanderaa benefits quite a bit from being able to hit Pursuiters for SE damage, usually via HP Fighting, as has already been mentioned. Perhaps the most important thing to point out here is that neutral Fire Blast deals the same damage as an SE Psychic. Definitely not worth it.
I'm not too familiar with competitive play(and neither is my friend),but we thought of this set:
Shanderaa/Shadow Tag @ Choice Specs
-Flame Thrower
-Shadow Ball
-Energy Ball
-Calm Mind/Nitro Charge
How does this sound?
Shanderaa/Shadow Tag @ Choice Specs
-Flame Thrower
-Shadow Ball
-Energy Ball
-Calm Mind/Nitro Charge
How does this sound?
Calm Mind and Nitro Charge shouldn't even be considered for any Choiced set, and Shanderaa should never run Nitro Charge on any set. Other than that, it's... pretty much the same as the existing Specs Shanderaa set in the first post.
Nope.avi
Life Orb Shandera LOVES Nitro Charge, especially if you have Flash Fire to ensure stronger and faster Fire Blasts. Nitro Charge / Sub / FB / Shadow Ball and ScarfShan are the most effective sets I've used in the Gen V server.