Dragonite

[waffles101]

I'm really hyping CB DNite with:

Dragonite@Choice Band
252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Spe
Adamant
Multi Scale
-ExtremeSpeed
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Thunderpunch / Fire Punch

This thing can act as a revenge killer to things such as the new dragons and Doryuuzu.
Dragonite can take a +2 Adamant Doryuuzu Rock slide if multi scale is intact, and a +0 one if not while OHKOing back with EQ. Outrage fucking kills stuff and Fire Punch vs Thunder Punch depends if you want to hit Scizor / Nattorei or if you want to hit bulky waters.

 

[JSND]

Im veryvery pleased with Agility Rain Dragonite.
I mean it is very powerful even when used on Uber tier !!
Gale Thunser Dragon Pulse and Agility Get clean 2HKO to eveything i have tried it against except nattrei. So effective

 

[Celest]

Right now I'm workin' a defensive Dragonite, and he's doing pretty darn well for me.

Shieldnite@Leftovers
Nature: Adamant(+Atk/-SpAtk)
Ability: Multi-Scale
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Atk
Moves:
~Dragon Claw
~Fire Punch
~Roost
~Light Screen

289 defense isn't all too impressive, but with multi scale, it definitely gets the job done. After a Light Screen, Special attacks are scratches, and I can pass it over to allies if need be. With an adamant nature and no EV investment, he stills gets over 300 attack(331 i believe), definitely enough to hurt. Dragon Claw is obligatory STAB, Fire Punch gives great coverage and deals with the likes of Forry/Skarm/Nattorei/Genosect/Scizor really well. All and all, he's a ridiculously good asset to my team. I always loved Dnite, and Multi-scale is the blessing he needed. It's like a better Sturdy!

 

[Destiny Warrior]

@N00b Lyf3: Maybe put a link to his post in your sig? xD

Multi-Scale has offensive applications too guys. It makes getting the first DD easy(if and ONLY if you haev good Spin support), and lets you sweep with mroe HP left.

 

[WingedKnight]

Multi-Scale has offensive applications too guys. It makes getting the first DD easy(if and ONLY if you haev good Spin support), and lets you sweep with mroe HP left.

This. You can laugh in the face of just about any attack and pull off the first Dance, much more so then the other dragons. It also makes it easier between Roost and Leftovers to pull off more, making your sweep easier. But Rocks are still prevalent enough you need a good spinner.

 

[SupremeDirt]

Multi-Scale is seriously the best thing he could have gotten. You can even take some STAB'd Ice moves, and if they're unSTABd you'll walk them off, usually taking between 60%-80%

 

[Banryu]

Right now I'm workin' a defensive Dragonite, and he's doing pretty darn well for me.

Shieldnite@Leftovers
Nature: Adamant(+Atk/-SpAtk)
Ability: Multi-Scale
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Atk
Moves:
~Dragon Claw
~Fire Punch
~Roost
~Light Screen

289 defense isn't all too impressive, but with multi scale, it definitely gets the job done. After a Light Screen, Special attacks are scratches, and I can pass it over to allies if need be. With an adamant nature and no EV investment, he stills gets over 300 attack(331 i believe), definitely enough to hurt. Dragon Claw is obligatory STAB, Fire Punch gives great coverage and deals with the likes of Forry/Skarm/Nattorei/Genosect/Scizor really well. All and all, he's a ridiculously good asset to my team. I always loved Dnite, and Multi-scale is the blessing he needed. It's like a better Sturdy!

I used a set like that last gen, and it worked all right. Yeah, Multiscale will totally help it, but I think the other guys are right-- Multiscale's best application is offensive, IMO. How many other Dragons do you know that can so easily get +2 in Attack AND Speed? :O

 

[WingedKnight]

Little aside for all you fellow Dragonite fans, apparently Marvel Scale Dratini has been encountered in the Dream World. That means Multiscale Nite is officially "released" and exists as far as Smogon is concerned.
I was expecting it would be much longer, and I thought maybe they'd do the Pseudos as an event give-away, but apparently not so. Hooray for MS Nite!

 

[Celest]

So I switched took your advice and started a DD set. Basically, I replaced Light Screen with DD, and made him Adamant with 252 Speed/HP. Working even BETTER than before. I'm hesitate to switch from HP to attack, as I hit fairly hard already, and I can take hits pretty well and I still wreck most enemies.

 

[ForteAnly]

Little aside for all you fellow Dragonite fans, apparently Marvel Scale Dratini has been encountered in the Dream World. That means Multiscale Nite is officially "released" and exists as far as Smogon is concerned.
I was expecting it would be much longer, and I thought maybe they'd do the Pseudos as an event give-away, but apparently not so. Hooray for MS Nite!

Yeah, I heard about that too. I was surprised as well that you could encounter it already. It requires a lot of points to unlock in game but nonetheless that is great news.

 

[KurashiDragon]

I just saw it on the released Dream World abilities thread. I'm very happy at this. That means Dragonite is finally gonna be seeing some attention. (Well some more) As for my rarity on my own thread....... I'm a lurker it's what I do.

 

[Lightning Tiger]

Wow, it took what?, a new ability and new move thats murder in rain and now Dranonite is no longer a poor mans Salamence? He got real lucky this gen, its about damn time. And its already available in dream world to boot!!!

 

[Celest]

Wow, it took what?, a new ability and new move thats murder in rain and now Dranonite is no longer a poor mans Salamence? He got real lucky this gen, its about damn time. And its already available in dream world to boot!!!

I don't even think you need Windstorm/Gale in that. Just with multi-scale he's become superior. Good thing too, since Dnite was always my fave. I'd love to see Salamence fall out of usage. Hate that thing.

 

[Murkglow]

I don't even think you need Windstorm/Gale in that. Just with multi-scale he's become superior. Good thing too, since Dnite was always my fave. I'd love to see Salamence fall out of usage. Hate that thing.

I don't know if I'd say he's "superior" since they don't do the same things, but he is more of a contender for usage then he used to be.

 

[JSND]

I don't know if I'd say he's "superior" since they don't do the same things, but he is more of a contender for usage then he used to be.

As of the latest gen 5 usage Dragonite outclass Salamence. Dragonite is Top 20 and salamence is on 30. Even gyarados who almost always stand in 1-3 position below salamence post platinum is at position 24 in the ladder.

 

[Murkglow]

And how big is the sample size and from where and why should I value it? Wasn't there a post somewhere where a person was talking about how an all physical Hardy Jirachi was the most common Jirachi set on one of the servers playing gen 5? I think I'll wait until Gen 5 really starts before I worry over much about rankings.

 

[SJCrew]

What's this crap about Dnite outclassing Salamence? lol. The only reason he's so high in usage is because nubs think Multiscale makes him invincible. It does make him harder to kill, but it doesn't do shit if I have Rocks up and he's still slow as molasses, so my token Scarfer should have no problems checking him. Whatever you're using to check Dragons now should be sufficient (unless it's Swampert...that guy doesn't check shit anymore).

Salamence has his own set of problems to deal with. He's still better than Dragonite where it matters, but now he has to answer to the rest of the Dragons. Going down the list, we have all the stuff we thought was broken last gen (Garchomp, Latios, Latios), new Dragons (Sazandora, Kyuremu), and new, more powerful threats altogether (Roopushin, Doryuuzu, and way too many others to count). And all he got for his troubles was EQ Spiral and no Outrage to abuse it with. lol.

 

[WingedKnight]

Dragonite does not outclass Salamence overall, that's a bit ridiculous (as much as I love Nite). But Salamence certainly doesn't outclass Dragonite either. The two now have much more defined niches and a noticeably greater difference in playstyle than last gen. Salamence hits harder and faster out of the gate, but Dragonite is likely to stick around longer and still dish out the pain. It's a matter of choosing what suits your tastes/your teams needs, but the big point is that, largely thanks to Multiscale, Dragonite finally has a fair shot again for consideration.

 

[KurashiDragon]

What's this crap about Dnite outclassing Salamence? lol. The only reason he's so high in usage is because nubs think Multiscale makes him invincible. It does make him harder to kill, but it doesn't do shit if I have Rocks up and he's still slow as molasses, so my token Scarfer should have no problems checking him. Whatever you're using to check Dragons now should be sufficient (unless it's Swampert...that guy doesn't check shit anymore).

Salamence has his own set of problems to deal with. He's still better than Dragonite where it matters, but now he has to answer to the rest of the Dragons. Going down the list, we have all the stuff we thought was broken last gen (Garchomp, Latios, Latios), new Dragons (Sazandora, Kyuremu), and new, more powerful threats altogether (Roopushin, Doryuuzu, and way too many others to count). And all he got for his troubles was EQ Spiral and no Outrage to abuse it with. lol.

Dude, take a chill pill. Really.

The only reason he's so high in usage is because nubs think Multiscale makes him invincible. It does make him harder to kill, but it doesn't do shit if I have Rocks up and he's still slow as molasses, so my token Scarfer should have no problems checking him.

I disagree. Although the metagame is still developing so I wouldn't trust those statistics just yet (As the metagame has just started and people are experimenting), Multi Scale is a very ligitimate ability on Dragonite who, by all rights, REALLY FUCKING NEEDED IT!

This Gen has been very kind to Dragonite by, not just ability, but by the metagame around it as well. Drizzletoed, MMespeon, new spinners, and better teammates have made it much easier for dragonite to make a living doing what it does. Any smart player with Multi Scale Dnite would go places, if they knew how to build their team around it.

He's still better than Dragonite where it matters.

Where it matters? I'm actually inclined to agree with you if that were the case. Agreed OffensiveDD is (In my honost opinion) bad on Dragonite simple because of this fact. However, Multi Scale, in many ways, seperates Dragonite from Salamence as a set up dragon / Mixed Sweeper. The sooner people get this, the sooner Dragonite can be used more as a bulkyDD instead of an inferior Salamence set.

Now then, if its ok with everybody I'd really like to get off this subject. I don't want my thread to be turned into a Dragonite vs Salamence debate.

 

[SJCrew]

Dude, take a chill pill. Really.

Did you read my post or did you read the swear words and instantly think I was mad or something? Reanalyze the context; a fuck or two on the fly doesn't hurt anyone.

Multi Scale is a very ligitimate ability on Dragonite who, by all rights, REALLY FUCKING NEEDED IT!

Oh wait, nevermind.

Where it matters?

Yeah, speed. Even though Salamence is still getting checked by those pesky Scarf Randos and Garchomps, there is no less than a plethora of Pokemon between that 80-100 Speed tier, and since a lot of them really enjoy running Choice Scarf sets, it really helps to be more threatening after a DD.

Playing on his bulk is key because unlike Salamence, Dragonite does not have a threatening presence. He is still slower than most sweepers and many walls will stay in if they have the right move to deal with him, even if he might be able to KO (but expect him not to a good 80% of the time because it's usually bulky DD).

Also, Dragonite will not win the war of attrition once status enters the playing field; not being able to KO walls of any kind right away is a huge disadvantage in this regard because it gives Rotom-W and bulky Ghosts a chance to strike back with Twave or WoW. Salamence never had to worry about this because after he got that DD, it was usually curtains.

However, Multi Scale, in many ways, seperates Dragonite from Salamence as a set up dragon / Mixed Sweeper. The sooner people get this, the sooner Dragonite can be used more as a bulkyDD instead of an inferior Salamence set.

Multiscale does help, but trust me on this one: he's still Dragonite. You need to keep those residuals in check for it to work at all and if you're running bulky DD, you're still missing out on the Speed and power of other Dragon sweepers. Vintage Dragonite.

Honestly, I think most of Multiscale's utility could be utilized in the lead position. He has Espeed, you don't have to worry about Rocks, and practically nothing OHKOs. Just talking about it makes me want to try it.

 

[SJCrew]

I was nowhere close to finished with my post, clicked Reply by accident, lol. You might want to reread it.

 

[KurashiDragon]

Yeah, speed. Even though Salamence is still getting checked by those pesky Scarf Randos and Garchomps, there is no less than a plethora of Pokemon between that 80-100 Speed tier, and since a lot of them really enjoy running Choice Scarf sets, it really helps to be more threatening after a DD.

Dragonite's sets shouldn't be made to abuse speed. If anybody does they're obviously not using it right or have no idea there was a pokemon named Salamence. Dragonite's sets should be used to abuse it's large movepool and Massive bulk.

Playing on his bulk is key because unlike Salamence, Dragonite does not have a threatening presence. He is still slower than most sweepers and many walls will stay in if they have the right move to deal with him, even if he might be able to KO (but expect him not to a good 80% of the time because it's usually bulky DD).

2 DDs are much easier to get on the bulky set than on a sweeper set. Initially, it is true that Dragonite isn't that threatening but if you have the patience to run your team around it and good prediction skills, it will not let you down.

Also, Dragonite will not win the war of attrition once status enters the playing field; not being able to KO walls of any kind right away is a huge disadvantage in this regard because it gives Rotom-W and bulky Ghosts a chance to strike back with Twave or WoW. Salamence never had to worry about this because after he got that DD, it was usually curtains.

Actually the same can be said for any other set up sweeper. I don't understand where your coming from when you say "Salamence can do this when dragonite cant." Apart from 20 more base power and "1" more ATK there's not very much they do differently in terms of "Set up here and proceed to sweep." I can only understand the different situations. Even then Salamence still has the exact same problems dragonite is suffering from except with more speed.

Multiscale does help, but trust me on this one: he's still Dragonite. You need to keep those residuals in check for it to work at all and if you're running bulky DD, you're still missing out on the Speed and power of other Dragon sweepers. Vintage Dragonite.

This is only assuming one DD can be brought up at a time which is uncommon for a bulky dragonite. Also with the residuals, once again the same can be said for many set up sweepers. There are more oportunities than one can count to bring dragonite in and set up. More than salamence. It tends to work in the end.

Honestly, I think most of Multiscale's utility could be utilized in the lead position. He has Espeed, you don't have to worry about Rocks, and practically nothing OHKOs. Just talking about it makes me want to try it.

Your not seeing the practical uses Multi Scale could have on the bulkyDD set. 4th gen forced us to use Dragonite in a different way and 5th gen, with Multi Scale is pretty much the first real chance we have to abuse it. Multi Scale is (In my opinion) the perfect addition to Dragonite's BulkyDD set. The positives Heavily outweigh the negatives. All you really have to worry about is slightly less oportunities to switch in to abuse Multi Scale, and worrying even more about that Spinner spot on your team.

 

[Pokémon Trainer R]

To be fair, not being able to be revenge-killed at full health by some of the most common Pokémon, such as Ice Shard users, Choice Scarf Garchomp, and Doryuuzu in a Sandstorm is undeniably a massive advantage for a Dragon Dance user, much more so than having 20 more base Speed in my opinion (as being slower doesn't really matter when Dragonite can easily survive an attack anyway before retaliating, while many common Pokémon can attack first against even a Salamence which had used Dragon Dance once, and knock it out anyway due to its lack of Multi-Scale).

With that said though, I'm actually quite unsure about the viability of Dragon Dance as a move on any Pokémon in this generation, due to how common Ditto and Pokémon with Mischievous Heart and paralysis-inducing moves are. Addressing the latter though, I'd obviously much rather have a Dragon Danced yet paralyzed Pokémon with Multi-Scale on the field, than a Dragon Danced but paralyzed Pokémon without Multi-Scale on the field, as thanks to its ability, a paralyzed Dragonite would most likely still survive an attack and destroy or at least heavily damage something (maybe even in addition to the Pokémon with Mischievous Heart, as it cannot paralyze Dragonite and break its Multi-Scale at the same time, so despite getting paralyzed, Dragonite with some luck would be able to take out the Pokémon with Mischievous Heart while at the same time preserving its full health on that turn, allowing it to most likely survive an attack from whatever the opponent sends out next, before launching yet another devastating attack) with its powered-up attacks.

 

[Murkglow]

To be fair, not being able to be revenge-killed at full health by some of the most common Pokémon, such as Ice Shard users, Choice Scarf Garchomp, and Doryuuzu in a Sandstorm is undeniably a massive advantage for a Dragon Dance user, much more so than having 20 more base Speed in my opinion (as being slower doesn't really matter when Dragonite can easily survive an attack anyway before retaliating, while many common Pokémon can attack first against even a Salamence which had used Dragon Dance once, and knock it out anyway due to its lack of Multi-Scale).

Yes but that 20 speed doesn't go away if there are Stealth Rocks on the field or if you switch into even the lightest of hits... Doesn't help being bulky when even 1% damage removes your important ability.

No one is saying Dragonite is bad or that its ability is bad, far from it. This all started because people where saying it was superior to Salamance and that was all we were disagreeing on, I have zero problem saying that Dragonite has his own unique nitch compared to Salamance this gen.

 

[KurashiDragon]

Yes but that 20 speed doesn't go away if there are Stealth Rocks on the field or if you switch into even the lightest of hits... Doesn't help being bulky when even 1% damage removes your important ability.

No one is saying Dragonite is bad or that its ability is bad, far from it. This all started because people where saying it was superior to Salamance and that was all we were disagreeing on, I have zero problem saying that Dragonite has his own unique nitch compared to Salamance this gen.

Actually this discussion began when Celest said Dragonite was Superior to Salamence and SJCrew's overreaction to it.

To the first paragraph, it does help that Dragonite can learn Roost by level up and can continuously reuse Multi Scale.

To the second paragraph, I keep wondering why people are continously trying a Dragonite vs Salamence discussion. I can understand that they're similar in terms of a pure set up sweeper set and a mixed set (both of which Salamence clearly dominates) but this gen has brought alot to Dragonite and I personally think that Dragonite has finally steped out of Salamence's shadow and become a formidable opponent all it's own. It was ok last gen but this gen, it just doesn't seem right.