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FalknerLevel7Pidgey's Stall Team [OU RMT]
- Thread starter FalknerLevel7Pidgey
- Start date
At first glance, this looks like a really solid team. The first suggestion I would make is to make Skarmory your lead as opposed to Celebi. The primary reason is that a lot of leads cary U-Turn, which not only hits Celebi for 4x effective damage, but also hits TTar for 2x effective damage which is one of your main answers to leads. I would run Taunt Skarmory over the current Skarmory set you have, with this set:
(Skarmory) (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/8 Spd/248 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Roost
- Taunt
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
---
Lum Berry allows you to take status from sleep inducing leads, Taunt back, then set up Spikes as they switch. Taunt Skarmory also goes incredibly well with ScarfTar, as Skarmory baits opposing leads' Taunt. You can then bring in TTar, break their sash with Sand Stream, and hit them incredibly hard if they choose to stay in, or OHKO on the switch with Pursuit.
For Celebi, I'd dump Perish Song for HP Fire. This allows Celebi to effectively counter Scizor, Metagross, Skarmory, and Breloom most notably. Also consider packing Earth Power for Heatran, or Psychic for Machamp (which by the way, you are very weak to). If you choose to run either of these, just take out Stealth Rock and add it in on Heatran.
Machamp OHKOs Heatran, Rotom, TTar, can DynamicPunch Skarm and then finish off with an elemental punch, can generally beat out Tentacruel depending on what 4th move it runs.... Obviously, you DO have ways to get rid of it, with residual damage, burn, and revenge killers, but you don't have reliable switch ins, and Sub + 3 Attacks can really cause a lot of damage.
Next problem. Aside from ScarfTar, you don't really have any hard hitting physical attackers, meaning Blissey becomes a huge problem for the team, especially Blisseys with cleric support to get rid of Toxic. One way to change this would be by adding Explosion to your Heatran. Obviously you don't want to rely on Explosion as a means to KO Blissey, but having access to it doesn't hurt and also will allow you to take out sweepers that have set up to much. Also, if you don't like Explosion on Tran, consider running a RestTalk variant with Lava Plume so you can burn physical attackers and severely hinder them, while still maintaining your special bulk.
Same EVs and nature, just run Rest/Sleep Talk/Lava Plume/Roar.
Never hurts to have another RestTalker.
@BlisseyOfDoom, I totally agree. The Rotom form you currently use does not scare anything off with its potential access to Air Slash - nothing of real significance. Rotom-h or Rotom-w would be much more effective as they can bluff Overheat / Hydro Pump, forcing a lot of pokes to switch.
(Skarmory) (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/8 Spd/248 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Roost
- Taunt
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
---
Lum Berry allows you to take status from sleep inducing leads, Taunt back, then set up Spikes as they switch. Taunt Skarmory also goes incredibly well with ScarfTar, as Skarmory baits opposing leads' Taunt. You can then bring in TTar, break their sash with Sand Stream, and hit them incredibly hard if they choose to stay in, or OHKO on the switch with Pursuit.
For Celebi, I'd dump Perish Song for HP Fire. This allows Celebi to effectively counter Scizor, Metagross, Skarmory, and Breloom most notably. Also consider packing Earth Power for Heatran, or Psychic for Machamp (which by the way, you are very weak to). If you choose to run either of these, just take out Stealth Rock and add it in on Heatran.
Machamp OHKOs Heatran, Rotom, TTar, can DynamicPunch Skarm and then finish off with an elemental punch, can generally beat out Tentacruel depending on what 4th move it runs.... Obviously, you DO have ways to get rid of it, with residual damage, burn, and revenge killers, but you don't have reliable switch ins, and Sub + 3 Attacks can really cause a lot of damage.
Next problem. Aside from ScarfTar, you don't really have any hard hitting physical attackers, meaning Blissey becomes a huge problem for the team, especially Blisseys with cleric support to get rid of Toxic. One way to change this would be by adding Explosion to your Heatran. Obviously you don't want to rely on Explosion as a means to KO Blissey, but having access to it doesn't hurt and also will allow you to take out sweepers that have set up to much. Also, if you don't like Explosion on Tran, consider running a RestTalk variant with Lava Plume so you can burn physical attackers and severely hinder them, while still maintaining your special bulk.
Same EVs and nature, just run Rest/Sleep Talk/Lava Plume/Roar.
Never hurts to have another RestTalker.
@BlisseyOfDoom, I totally agree. The Rotom form you currently use does not scare anything off with its potential access to Air Slash - nothing of real significance. Rotom-h or Rotom-w would be much more effective as they can bluff Overheat / Hydro Pump, forcing a lot of pokes to switch.
As far as covering threats go, you've got most of them covered, so props on that, though I think Offensive LO DD Dragonite and Chesto Rest Kingdra can give you some problems. Firstly, I think you can test Choice Scarf Flygon over Tyranitar, firstly it brings a Rock- type resist to the table, secondly, it provides an alternate method of handling Chesto Rest Kingdra, who is a threat to stall teams such as this one. Your method of handling it I'm assuming is with Celebi's Perish Song, or luring in Outrage for Skarmory to WW. With Flygon however, you have a way to KO Kingdra outright, without taking the long routes. You still handle the same threats Tyranitar does, but you stand a much better chance against the likes of DD Dragonite/Chesto Rest Kingdra. 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe with Jolly is ideal, and you can use U-turn/Earthquake/Outrage or Dragon Claw/Fire Blast or Draco Meteor or Thunder Punch. Gyarados is handled by Rotom-A reasonably well, and you can use Flygon for an opportunity to fry Forretress and Skarmory switch-ins who expect an Earthquake or Outrage. You can even use Draco Meteor to lure in things like Gliscor and Swampert, and hit them with Draco Meteor. Draco Meteor is also a good way to throw off Offensive teams, as it will do quite a number with hazards support. If you do use Fire Blast or Draco Meteor, change the nature to Naive or Hasty. Optional changes, I think you could combine Skarmory's and Tentacruel's roles and use a Spike stacking Forretress with 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef with an Impish Nature and Payback/Spikes/Toxic Spikes/Rapid Spin. I feel like you really need something on this team that can abuse these hazards to the fullest. There are two options on going about this, the first one is the more offensive approach and utilizes a Sub CM Jirachi with 252 HP/4 Satk/252 Spe with a Timid nature and Substitute/Calm Mind/Psychic/Thunderbolt. This provides a great way to maintain your Lucario check, a way to address Water- types, and abuse the hazards to it's fullest potential. Swampert, Celebi, Tyranitar, and Hippowdon love to switch in on Jirachi. However, with Toxic Spikes support, all four are crippled to the point they're forced to switch out, or eat up accumulating poison damage. Basically, this Jirachi can destroy it's counters via the hazards provided by this team, and the reason I suggest it, is because this team provides the correct support for SubCM Jirachi. Additionally, you can try Wish+Calm Mind Jirachi for a more defensive approach, still maintaining the sweeping capabilities, in addition to being a supporter with Wish, for Heatran, Forretress, and Flygon. CM+Wish Jirachi is a huge pain for opposing Stall teams, even more so withe Toxic Spikes and Spikes support provided by the team. Against heavy Stall teams, these two hazards will help it greatly to wore down Swampert, Blissey, and Hippowdon. Choice Scarf Tyranitar can't switch in to safely revenge due to getting poisoned (and you can always take it on with Flygon). Whichever Jirachi you choose, it will greatly aid you against the likes of Special Attackers, and will definitely love the support it'd get from the hazards.
GL
GL
Hi, firstly, nice username.
This is quite a solid stall team, however it has quite a large Tyranitar weakness. Currently CB Tyranitar 2HKOes your entire team with a simple Stone Edge, and Dragon Dance Tyranitar has the chance to sweep your entire team, especially if Skarmory is slightly weakened. The best Skarmory can do is phaze it. I have, I think, a good change I can suggest for your team. Something you could try is Swampert over Heatran. While Swampert does not force as many switch-ins as Heatran, and it does not check Jirachi as well, it is a very reliable Tyranitar check and beats Jirachi most of the time. Swampert can also use Stealth Rock allowing you to use Hidden Power [Fire] on Celebi to break Breloom's Substitute. Hidden Power [Fire] means that Tyranitar is no longer your sole answer to Swords Dance Lucario and lets you hit stuff like Scizor and friends hard if they decide to switch-in.
Swampert @ Leftovers
Relaxed | Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Stealth Rock / Ice Beam / Earthquake / Roar
Swampert gives you a vital Electric resist as well, as Rotom loses to stuff like Raikou quite easily, although Tyranitar beats those generally.
I know that this Swampert idea is definitely not the ideal replacement over Heatran, but it is the best "quick switch" I can make to fix this weakness.
Use Thunderbolt on Rotom, it 2HKOes Vaporeon sometimes after Stealth Rock and does more damage to Heatran etc. In my opinion, Discharge is not the best option on Rotom as you will be burning anything that Toxic Spikes don't hit.
Good luck FalknerLevel7Pidgey!
This is quite a solid stall team, however it has quite a large Tyranitar weakness. Currently CB Tyranitar 2HKOes your entire team with a simple Stone Edge, and Dragon Dance Tyranitar has the chance to sweep your entire team, especially if Skarmory is slightly weakened. The best Skarmory can do is phaze it. I have, I think, a good change I can suggest for your team. Something you could try is Swampert over Heatran. While Swampert does not force as many switch-ins as Heatran, and it does not check Jirachi as well, it is a very reliable Tyranitar check and beats Jirachi most of the time. Swampert can also use Stealth Rock allowing you to use Hidden Power [Fire] on Celebi to break Breloom's Substitute. Hidden Power [Fire] means that Tyranitar is no longer your sole answer to Swords Dance Lucario and lets you hit stuff like Scizor and friends hard if they decide to switch-in.
Swampert @ Leftovers
Relaxed | Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Stealth Rock / Ice Beam / Earthquake / Roar
Swampert gives you a vital Electric resist as well, as Rotom loses to stuff like Raikou quite easily, although Tyranitar beats those generally.
I know that this Swampert idea is definitely not the ideal replacement over Heatran, but it is the best "quick switch" I can make to fix this weakness.
Use Thunderbolt on Rotom, it 2HKOes Vaporeon sometimes after Stealth Rock and does more damage to Heatran etc. In my opinion, Discharge is not the best option on Rotom as you will be burning anything that Toxic Spikes don't hit.
Good luck FalknerLevel7Pidgey!
Hi FalknerLevel7Pidgey,
Looks like a pretty decent stall team off first inspection. The one thing I am mainly worried about is your lack of a Heatran answer. Everything on your team is stung pretty hard by Fire Blast, and in the case of Tentacruel, Earth Power is Super Effective too. Tyranitar seems like a respectable threat like Heist covered also. In attempt to cover that and maintain coverage on everything else, I am going to go a similar route to Heist, albeit a different Pokemon to switch out. First of all, I think you should change your Skarmory to a Forretress. This will make more sense in a second. In addition, I think Tentacruel should be changed to Swampert, and following that change, Celebi should be moved out of the lead spot, and Forretress should replace it. The main reason I suggest Forretress, is that it serves as a combo of Skarmory and Tentacruel in one Pokemon. It can Toxic Spikes in addition to regular Spikes, while being a physical wall. Then Swampert will give you more protection from Pokemon like Heatran and Tyranitar. In addition, Celebi is not a very good lead, and consequently, I think Forretress would do a much better job. Here is the two sets:
Good luck with your team!
Looks like a pretty decent stall team off first inspection. The one thing I am mainly worried about is your lack of a Heatran answer. Everything on your team is stung pretty hard by Fire Blast, and in the case of Tentacruel, Earth Power is Super Effective too. Tyranitar seems like a respectable threat like Heist covered also. In attempt to cover that and maintain coverage on everything else, I am going to go a similar route to Heist, albeit a different Pokemon to switch out. First of all, I think you should change your Skarmory to a Forretress. This will make more sense in a second. In addition, I think Tentacruel should be changed to Swampert, and following that change, Celebi should be moved out of the lead spot, and Forretress should replace it. The main reason I suggest Forretress, is that it serves as a combo of Skarmory and Tentacruel in one Pokemon. It can Toxic Spikes in addition to regular Spikes, while being a physical wall. Then Swampert will give you more protection from Pokemon like Heatran and Tyranitar. In addition, Celebi is not a very good lead, and consequently, I think Forretress would do a much better job. Here is the two sets:
Good luck with your team!
Favor SubSplit Rotom >> RestTalk. But that's a personal thing. I enjoy being able to put Blissey's HP down like 40% when it switches in and then burning it. Your rotom is stalled out by Blissey while SubSplit isn't.
Just my 1 cent, cuz i'm to poor and lazy to give you 2.
Just my 1 cent, cuz i'm to poor and lazy to give you 2.
That is incorrect. RestTalk Rotom PP stalls out Blissey. What you should do is run Thunderbolt in place of Discharge. You have Toxic Spikes and Will-o-Wisp; there is no need to sacrifice power for another form of status on the same set.
You might also want to consider leading with Skarmory. It matches up better against most common leads. Celebi is at a disadvantage most of the time. If you do decide to take some of the other raters suggestions and use Swampert, that would be fine in the lead spot.
Hey cool team bro! I agree with undisputed, and with that, there aren't that many changes to make. I'll mostly just nitpick a bit.
Something of note, if you do make the Forretress/Swampert switch (which you probably should) is that Lead Machamp can now be a real headache. You lack a definitive way to beat it, 100%. For this and other reasons you might try Reflect > Will-o-wisp over Rotom. Will-o-wisp fails due to Lum Berry- with Payback, Rotom becomes a near 100% counter to Machamp, outstalling it with RestTalk and Thunderbolt. It also discourages pursuiters from coming in even if they're faster and come in after something- meaning that you can set up reflect on opponent A and if opponent B switches in, unlike Will-o-wisp, it still affects opponent B. Something else you should consider is that, you're running toxic spikes, which serves to decrease the amount of Pokemon you can will-o-wisp- including Tyranitar, who is probably the #1 reason to run this sort of move anyway. Some other minour notes would be the 100% > 75& accuracy thing and that Reflect can help you again things like SD Infernape, things that will-o-wisp can't burn. You may consider switching your form to something that deters Tyranitar switch ins- wash form is the standard and less effective than it once was, but I think that lawnmower form would be fantastic, as there is some reasonable doubt about using a non-standard Rotom form. An added bonus would be repelling Swampert, who walls you currently 100%.
On Celebi, since you're no longer needing SR (on Swampert), you should run something else over it. Some great options would be earth Power (for grounded steels, especially Heatran), Hidden Power Fire (for most steels except Heatran), and U-turn, to get you out of a Perish Song situation on the very last turn so that you can counter your opponent's switch in. I think any one of these would work great, but I'm leaning towards U turn, since you can always just turn out of troublesome steels. You might consider running enough speed to outspeed Timid Suicune, in case you don't get toxic spikes up and it starts going crazy- if this happens, you're in a real tight spot. 136 in speed should do the trick, out of defense.
That's all the advice I have, really cool team. I hope this helps!
Something of note, if you do make the Forretress/Swampert switch (which you probably should) is that Lead Machamp can now be a real headache. You lack a definitive way to beat it, 100%. For this and other reasons you might try Reflect > Will-o-wisp over Rotom. Will-o-wisp fails due to Lum Berry- with Payback, Rotom becomes a near 100% counter to Machamp, outstalling it with RestTalk and Thunderbolt. It also discourages pursuiters from coming in even if they're faster and come in after something- meaning that you can set up reflect on opponent A and if opponent B switches in, unlike Will-o-wisp, it still affects opponent B. Something else you should consider is that, you're running toxic spikes, which serves to decrease the amount of Pokemon you can will-o-wisp- including Tyranitar, who is probably the #1 reason to run this sort of move anyway. Some other minour notes would be the 100% > 75& accuracy thing and that Reflect can help you again things like SD Infernape, things that will-o-wisp can't burn. You may consider switching your form to something that deters Tyranitar switch ins- wash form is the standard and less effective than it once was, but I think that lawnmower form would be fantastic, as there is some reasonable doubt about using a non-standard Rotom form. An added bonus would be repelling Swampert, who walls you currently 100%.
On Celebi, since you're no longer needing SR (on Swampert), you should run something else over it. Some great options would be earth Power (for grounded steels, especially Heatran), Hidden Power Fire (for most steels except Heatran), and U-turn, to get you out of a Perish Song situation on the very last turn so that you can counter your opponent's switch in. I think any one of these would work great, but I'm leaning towards U turn, since you can always just turn out of troublesome steels. You might consider running enough speed to outspeed Timid Suicune, in case you don't get toxic spikes up and it starts going crazy- if this happens, you're in a real tight spot. 136 in speed should do the trick, out of defense.
That's all the advice I have, really cool team. I hope this helps!