Can anybody slap Bidoof, Remoraid and Snorunt on a team and win through their ability?
Has anybody tested this yet?
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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 1 - ...wait, I'm not Jumpman16!
- Thread starter Philip7086
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Can anybody slap Bidoof, Remoraid and Snorunt on a team and win through their ability?
Has anybody tested this yet?
Thanks. :) That's pretty hilarious!!
Someone also said earlier in the thread that they've swept teams using Remoraid, but that's all I can find.
Anybody tried Inconsistent Snorunt yet?
That's true, but they are actually viable Pokémon by themselves, also without those tactics. And then there is a certain sense of prediction too. With Inconsistent, you keep getting boosts without having to do anything for it: all you do is stall your opponents for a bit, then sweep. It's too easy to use, and once it gets the right buffs, you'd be hard-pressed to stop it's rampage. A CSJirachi can't set up, and once it's locked into Iron Head you can switch to an appropriate counter, Erufuun's claim to fame is also its ability, but it won't sweep teams. Scizor U-Turning makes it leave the battle, and again it won't set up. Blissey gets destroyed by physical attacks, which there are plenty off.
What I'm trying to say is that just about everything can be countered, but sacrificing one spot on your team for just an Octillery-counter is just stupid IMO. And as I said, Inconsistent Pokémon revolve around sheer luck, and even with bad luck it's difficult to stop.
If you see a Bidoof 6-0 a standard OU team (see #79), you know something is wrong.
Yep that's why I quit for now. Skymin was just barely bearable. But octillery... please don't put up any other suspects up at the same time as them, with the hax they introduce many good players wont bother, and bad players can get up easier via luck.
I'm also avoiding laddering now until a decision is made and I play ubers, thats how bad inconsistent is. It doesn't gain any extra counters in a metagame when the only extra thing you can do is hit it harder. Theres a problem when, even if its only every 20 games or so, you end up losing 20-30 points from an inconsistent pokemon managing to get an evasion boost.
Well, if Octillery got to #1 on the ladder, I don't think it'd be stupid. I think many people would sacrifice a spot on their team to counter the #1 Pokemon.
Not to mention, you could build the Pokemon so it has other uses than just countering Octillery, in the same way as we're all building out Nattorei counters so they can perform other roles too.
But yeah, Bidoof 6-0-ing an OU team does make me question all this! I think more people should test Inconsistent Bidoof to see what they think.
Either that, or we could ban the Inconsistent Pokemon one at a time initially, and then if it turn out all 7 of them are broken, then we can ban the ability rather than the Pokemon.
But what about in this scenario: What if Slaking and Slakoth both got Huge Power as Dream World abilities, and Slaking became broken with it. Would be ban the ability (even though it's probably not broken on Slakoth), or would we ban Slaking (even though he's almost certainly not broken with Truant)?
Or do we ban Inconsistent Slaking? But then, could we also just ban all special moves on Mewtwo, and see if he makes OU? Could we ban Arena Trap on Dugtrio to see if he can play in NU?
I think we need to come up with some rules, because I can see the direction we might be going in in a couple of years from now...
I'm rather torn in my opinions. I don't find Skymin to be broken per se - there, if not counters, things which shut it down the vast majority of the time. However, there's always that 10% of the time when Skymin's ability to abuse luck simply becomes too great. I am kind of leaning towards a Skymin nomination not because I think it is over-powering, but because I don't think a metagame with Skymin is one I want to play, for it involves too much luck. I think this leads back to what was being discussed in Policy Review earlier - what kind of metagame do we want? I'd argue the metagame we want is one where the majority of players are happy with it, simple as that, and I don't think that we can create a metagame which pleases people with the level of luck Skymin introduces.
So yeah, I have three proposals as suspects: Darkrai (don't think there's any dissent on that issue, he's a monster), and Skymin and Inconsistent (to be banned as an ability), for making the metagame one which is not desirable.
Everything else is manageable. Doryuzuu is tricky to play around, but ultimately there are some checks and even one or two counters. Manaphy is absolutely brutal in rain, but I think weather control is a key skill in BW, and robbed of rain Manaphy is relatively passive. Wobbuffet doesn't command half the terror he did in the DPPt test. I've avoided him thus far by simply ensuring almost all of my Pokemon are fast enough to outspeed a Wobbuffet and therefore are able to use an offensive move on the Encore. I've lost a few slower walls to Wobbuffet, but not in a way that feels gamebreaking, simply in the same inevitable way that a Skarm would go down to a Magneton in ADV. Latios can put an immediate amount of pressure on, but I find the whole Draco Meteor, retreat, Draco Meteor, retreat thing to be fairly predictable, and playing around it is not too huge a difficulty. Deoxys-D just isn't really that good, I can't see it being BL, never mind OU. Tends to get shut down quite easily by Erufuun. Deoxys-S is a tricksy bugger, but again, fears Erufuun and isn't half as good as his DPPt days. Deoxys-A and Deoxys are totally shut down by priority attacks, they're the ultimate glass cannons. But yeah, I've not had problems with any of the other nominees.
So yeah, I have three proposals as suspects: Darkrai (don't think there's any dissent on that issue, he's a monster), and Skymin and Inconsistent (to be banned as an ability), for making the metagame one which is not desirable.
Everything else is manageable. Doryuzuu is tricky to play around, but ultimately there are some checks and even one or two counters. Manaphy is absolutely brutal in rain, but I think weather control is a key skill in BW, and robbed of rain Manaphy is relatively passive. Wobbuffet doesn't command half the terror he did in the DPPt test. I've avoided him thus far by simply ensuring almost all of my Pokemon are fast enough to outspeed a Wobbuffet and therefore are able to use an offensive move on the Encore. I've lost a few slower walls to Wobbuffet, but not in a way that feels gamebreaking, simply in the same inevitable way that a Skarm would go down to a Magneton in ADV. Latios can put an immediate amount of pressure on, but I find the whole Draco Meteor, retreat, Draco Meteor, retreat thing to be fairly predictable, and playing around it is not too huge a difficulty. Deoxys-D just isn't really that good, I can't see it being BL, never mind OU. Tends to get shut down quite easily by Erufuun. Deoxys-S is a tricksy bugger, but again, fears Erufuun and isn't half as good as his DPPt days. Deoxys-A and Deoxys are totally shut down by priority attacks, they're the ultimate glass cannons. But yeah, I've not had problems with any of the other nominees.
Actually I'd argue on darkrai, but it's hard to argue, as well as make myself high-ranking so I can vote, in this luck-based shit. We need to get it out of the metagame before testing anything else.
And if you want my argument against banning darkrai, here's its basic premise: It is sleep that is broken, not darkrai. Whenever I see someone ocmplaining about darkrai in detail (aka it's not just "he's too powerful" the first thing/most emphasized thing is always sleep.
I too have quit untill a decision is made. This needs to go. :/
Its pretty much killed my rating anyway after facing team upon team of this bs. Even when i try and adapt like stupid people preach and change teams and styles. Every play style gets fucked by this. Even (P)hazers arent safe because they get outstalled by Toxic or just flat out miss. ~__~
Even if you use Perish Song (there are like 2 good users lol) and they switch to Wobb "gg". You just pwned yourself.
This is arguably the most broken thing to hit Pokemon tbh. The only thing that even comes close is prolly RBY Mewtwo lol.
All right, I started reading through logs I wrote while I did my FireRed Nuzlocke, and I do believe that Inconsistent is broken now. I watched a log where my Venusaur got an opposing Clefairy down to Cervantes three hp... And cute charm activated. It got up to +six evasion, and then proceeded to kill Venusaur (or nearly so). I now oppose any means to boost evasion. Ever. Also, the Bidoof sweep log sealed my opinion. It is more broken than any sweeper except for maybe Arceus, Mewtwo, and Kyogre.
I am very curious/hopeful to see Phil's decision.
I am very curious/hopeful to see Phil's decision.
I wouldn't say it is sleep outright. For example, no-one is really that terrified of Parasect, despite the fact it has Spore. Rather, it is Darkrai's excellence at enabling sleep that is so scary. Sleep is powerful, but normally limited by the difficulty in actually putting opponents to sleep. Darkrai, however, can do that with relative ease, which makes him hugely difficult to deal with.
Octillery is pretty bad I agree with you it should be one of the first Pokemons to get put in ubers just because of the ability and how the boosts it gets is entirely luck based.
Breloom can sleep opponents but it's not broken. It's the fact that Darkrai can do it at 125 base speed. Most things can out-speed Breloom and heavily damage it first. With Darkrai, you never even get a hit off.
Not to mention the 135 base Sp Atk. And Nasty Plot.
It's the combination of stats, movepool, and sleep that make Darkrai arguably broken, but not other sleepers.
The main problem with Darkrai having access to Darkrai having access to Dark Void isn't the access to sleep, its Darkrai's already limited range of counters without it having access to Dark Void, and almost all of the pokemon that could beat it one on one are incapacitated by Dark Void.
Just out of interest, how many other people would support an emergency instant ban of Inconsistent, and how many would oppose?
EDIT: Want to make clear I'm not proposing this, just seeing how people would respond.
EDIT: Want to make clear I'm not proposing this, just seeing how people would respond.
What it seems to me is that Inconsistent violates the 4th gen evasion clause. However, Sand Veil Gliscor and Snow Cloak Froslass get a significant evasion boost due to their abilities as well, though in the appropriate weather. If the community is going to rally against Inconsistent due to its broken ability to boost evasion, what about Acupressure? The specific reason as to why Inconsistent is broken needs to be addressed here, because there are other legal ways to boost evasion that does not violate the evasion clause in 4th gen.
Has anybody tested an Acupressure Shuckle and get extremely lucky with an immediate +6 evasion boost and then sweep with the ensuing rollout?
I do see the difference between the two though, Inconsistent does not use up your turn to give your poke the boost while Acupressure does.
All in all, I still agree that Inconsistent is broken. The point of this post is to address other evasion-related movesets which can achieve similar results to Inconsistent.
EDIT: What about this set:
Jolly Smeargle @ Leftovers / Bright Powder
-Acupressure
-Protect
-Rollout
-Substitute
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Speed
Inconsistent
Has anybody tested an Acupressure Shuckle and get extremely lucky with an immediate +6 evasion boost and then sweep with the ensuing rollout?
I do see the difference between the two though, Inconsistent does not use up your turn to give your poke the boost while Acupressure does.
All in all, I still agree that Inconsistent is broken. The point of this post is to address other evasion-related movesets which can achieve similar results to Inconsistent.
EDIT: What about this set:
Jolly Smeargle @ Leftovers / Bright Powder
-Acupressure
-Protect
-Rollout
-Substitute
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Speed
Inconsistent
Just out of interest, how many other people would support an emergency instant ban of Inconsistent under the Evasion Clause, and how many would oppose? Want to make clear I'm not proposing this, just seeing how people would respond.
(reposting this because it got lost on the last page...)
(reposting this because it got lost on the last page...)
My point is that it's easy as hell to counter. It has literally dozens of counters, all of whom are very usable in ou.
By dozens, i mean they can switch in on an EQ or SD and ohko it. I consider Balloon Tran a counter because it switches into EQ and ohkoes, and it works a lot of the time, as most of the time they won't be using a coverage move on a random switch in.
Removing it under the Evasion Clause. Sorry, I'll clarify.
Even without Evasion Inconsistent is imposable to beet on a dedicated team... I should know because I just lost to one.
I think Slaking would get banned, as there would be no other reason than to use Huge Power. In that case any Slaking will run Huge Power, so any Slaking will be broken. Well, that's what I would expect, at least.
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