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Chandelure

well if the move they get locked into is an ice or fire attack or something Shandera resists and is not immune to they will be less on their guard for Shandera. and there is no team preview on Pokemon Online's dream world tier.
 
gabezj said:
well if the move they get locked into is an ice or fire attack or something Shandera resists and is not immune to they will be less on their guard for Shandera. and there is no team preview on Pokemon Online's dream world tier.
Click to expand...

I play on PO all the time. They do show teams >.>
Also,who the hell will keep using a move Shandera resists after being handed a Choice Scarf? Assuming your Persian somehow survives with it's Shuckle-like defenses/sarcasm
 
and
1 i was just proving the point that skarmory is not going to live an attack, LO is not required

2 just dont bring out Shandera until ditto is gone

3 ive never had problems baiting people if its done right

4 im sayng that it is not useless to do even though there are other offensive pokemon
 
gabezj said:
well if the move they get locked into is an ice or fire attack or something Shandera resists and is not immune to they will be less on their guard for Shandera. and there is no team preview on Pokemon Online's dream world tier.
Click to expand...

Fire attack is even worse since you'll simultaneously be worrying about Heatran switch-ins. >_>

It's not just about watching out for Shandera; they're going to switch when they're locked in since they don't want to provide a set-up opportunity for ANY sweeper.
 
i may have different settings or something but ive never been shown a team preview and they would keep using the move to take out persian, thats what normally happens
 
gabezj said:
i may have different settings or something but ive never been shown a team preview and they would keep using the move to take out persian, thats what normally happens
Click to expand...

Normally happens =/= going to happen against decent opponent.

Yes, you can get a massive set up opportunity if your opponent is making moves like that, but you might as well go for Power Trick Shuckle at that point.

Edit:

gabezj said:
just because some people dont fall for it doesnt mean it should be discounted as a strategy. and power trick shuckle is much harder to set up and then do damage with afterward.
Click to expand...

Ummm, yeah... look, it's just not going to get you anywhere at all. You'll beat opponents who aren't really thinking about what they're doing. That's about it.
 
just because some people dont fall for it doesnt mean it should be discounted as a strategy. and power trick shuckle is much harder to set up and then do damage with afterward.
 
Shandera has THE most powerful attack in the game...Shandera has de-throned Kyogre in that department.

Just for comparison:

Kyogre's Water spout at 100% HP in the Rain against the standard Blissey set:
438 Atk vs 306 Def & 714 HP (150 Base Power): 346 - 408 (48.46% - 57.14%)

Shandera's Fire Blast in the sun after a Flash Fire boost:
426 Atk vs 306 Def & 714 HP (120 Base Power): 403 - 475 (56.44% - 66.53%)

Ouch.
What about Heatran's Eruption with the Flash Fire boost?

Heatran's Eruption in the sun after a Flash Fire boost:
394 Atk vs 306 Def & 714 HP (150 Base Power): 466 - 549 (65.27% - 76.89%)

But wait,you said Shandera had the strongest attack...

Shandera's Overheat in the sun after a Flash Fire boost:
427 Atk vs 306 Def & 714 HP (140 Base Power): 472 - 556 (66.11% - 77.87%)

So yes,Shandera DOES have THE strongest attack in the game(Ignoring Doexys-A's Psycho Boost).

This is a lot easier to set up than you might think.
Look at this battle:

Battle between Matthew and Kefka started!

Tier: Standard OU
Variation: +14, -17
Rule: Rated
Rule: Sleep Clause
Rule: Freeze Clause
Rule: Species Clause
Rule: Wifi Battle

Kefka sent out Azelf!
Matthew sent out Blaziken!

Start of turn 1
Azelf used Trick!
Azelf switched items with the foe's Blaziken!
Azelf obtained one Leftovers!
The foe's Blaziken obtained one Choice Scarf!

The foe's Blaziken used Substitute!
The foe's Blaziken made a substitute!

The foe's Blaziken's Speed Boost increases its speed!
The foe's Blaziken's Speed rose!
Kefka: Enjoy

Start of turn 2
Matthew called Blaziken back!
Matthew sent out Electivire!

Azelf used Stealth Rock!
Pointed stones float in the air around Matthew's team!

Matthew: nice one

Start of turn 3
Azelf used Taunt!
The foe's Electivire fell for the taunt!

The foe's Electivire used ThunderPunch!
Azelf lost 259 HP! (88% of its health)
The foe's Electivire is hurt by its Life Orb!

Azelf restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 4
Azelf used Fire Blast!
The foe's Electivire lost 56% of its health!

The foe's Electivire used ThunderPunch!
Azelf lost 51 HP! (17% of its health)
Azelf fainted!
The foe's Electivire is hurt by its Life Orb!

Kefka sent out Ninetales!

Ninetales's Drought intensified the sun's rays!

Start of turn 5
Kefka called Ninetales back!
Kefka sent out Erufuun!

Matthew called Electivire back!
Matthew sent out Blaziken!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Blaziken!

The sunlight is strong!

Start of turn 6
Erufuun used Protect!
Erufuun protected itself!

The foe's Blaziken used Substitute!
The foe's Blaziken made a substitute!

The sunlight is strong!
The foe's Blaziken's Speed Boost increases its speed!
The foe's Blaziken's Speed rose!
Kefka: Scarf FTW

Start of turn 7
Matthew called Blaziken back!
Matthew sent out Electivire!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Electivire!

Erufuun used Substitute!
Erufuun made a substitute!

The sunlight is strong!
Erufuun restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 8
Erufuun used Protect!
Erufuun protected itself!

The foe's Electivire used Fire Punch!
Erufuun protected itself!

The sunlight is strong!
Erufuun restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 9
Erufuun used Encore!
The foe's Electivire received an encore!

The foe's Electivire used Fire Punch!
It's super effective!
Erufuun's substitute faded!
The foe's Electivire is hurt by its Life Orb!

The sunlight is strong!
Erufuun restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 10
Kefka called Erufuun back!
Kefka sent out Shandera!

The foe's Electivire used Fire Punch!
Shandera's Flash Fire raised the power of its Fire-type moves!

The sunlight is strong!

Start of turn 11
Matthew called Electivire back!
Matthew sent out Blaziken!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Blaziken!

Shandera used Nitro Charge!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Blaziken lost 15% of its health!
Shandera's Speed rose!
Shandera is hurt by its Life Orb!

The sunlight is strong!
Kefka: :D
Kefka: FYI
Kefka: Flash Fire boosted,Sun Boosted Fire Blasts from Shandera > Kyogres Rain 100% HP Water Spout

Start of turn 12
The foe's Blaziken used Protect!
The foe's Blaziken protected itself!

Shandera used Fire Blast!
The foe's Blaziken protected itself!

The sunlight is strong!
The foe's Blaziken's Speed Boost increases its speed!
The foe's Blaziken's Speed rose!

Start of turn 13
The foe's Blaziken used Protect!
The foe's Blaziken protected itself!

Shandera used Nitro Charge!
The foe's Blaziken protected itself!

The sunlight is strong!
The foe's Blaziken's Speed Boost increases its speed!
The foe's Blaziken's Speed rose!

Start of turn 14
The foe's Blaziken used Protect!
The foe's Blaziken protected itself!

Shandera used Nitro Charge!
The foe's Blaziken protected itself!

The sunlight is strong!
The foe's Blaziken's Speed Boost increases its speed!
The foe's Blaziken's Speed rose!
Kefka: ._.
Kefka: Damn Protect

Start of turn 15
The foe's Blaziken used Protect!
But it failed!

Shandera used Nitro Charge!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Blaziken lost 9% of its health!
Shandera's Speed rose!
The foe's Blaziken fainted!
Shandera is hurt by its Life Orb!

The sunlight is strong!
Kefka: There we go
Matthew sent out Dragonite!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Dragonite!

Start of turn 16
Shandera used Fire Blast!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Dragonite lost 75% of its health!
The foe's Dragonite fainted!
Shandera is hurt by its Life Orb!

The sunlight is strong!
Kefka: :D
Kefka: This thing is epic
Matthew sent out Gyarados!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Gyarados!

The foe's Gyarados intimidates Shandera!
Shandera's Attack fell!

Start of turn 17
Shandera used Fire Blast!
The attack of Shandera missed!

The foe's Gyarados used Waterfall!
It's super effective!
Shandera lost 152 HP! (58% of its health)

The sunlight is strong!
The foe's Gyarados restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Kefka: D:

Start of turn 18
Shandera used Fire Blast!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Gyarados lost 81% of its health!
The foe's Gyarados fainted!
Shandera is hurt by its Life Orb!

The sunlight is strong!
Matthew sent out Metagross!
Kefka: :D
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Metagross!

Kefka: D:
Kefka: Bye Shandera

Start of turn 19
The foe's Metagross used Bullet Punch!
It's not very effective...
Shandera lost 6 HP! (2% of its health)
Shandera fainted!

The sunlight is strong!
The foe's Metagross restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Kefka sent out Ninetales!

Start of turn 20
Ninetales used Hypnosis!
The foe's Metagross fell asleep!

The foe's Metagross is fast asleep!

The sunlight is strong!

Start of turn 21
Matthew called Metagross back!
Matthew sent out Rhyperior!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Rhyperior!

Ninetales used Fire Blast!
The attack of Ninetales missed!

The sunlight is strong!
The foe's Rhyperior restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 22
Ninetales used SolarBeam!
It's super effective!
The foe's Rhyperior lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Rhyperior fainted!

The sunlight is strong!
Matthew: gg
Matthew sent out Electivire!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Electivire!
Kefka: gg
The foe's Electivire fainted!

Matthew sent out Metagross!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Metagross!

Start of turn 23
Ninetales used Fire Blast!
It's super effective!
The foe's Metagross lost 94% of its health!
The foe's Metagross fainted!

Kefka won the battle!
Kefka: Great Battle :D
Matthew: GG


I OHKO'd a Dragonite with a resisted Fire Blast....
Very few things can actually survive this monstrous attack,especially with my Shandera's Life Orb!

Only super Bulky Waters can survive,and just barely.
Look at how a Max HP,Max Sp.def Vaporeon takes it with a Life Orb boosting it:

427 Atk vs 317 Def & 464 HP (120 Base Power): 252 - 297 (54.31% - 64.01%)

A 2HKO,while a Vaporeon with no investment in Sp.Attack can only 2HKO Shandera in the sun:
256 Atk vs 215 Def & 262 HP (95 Base Power): 122 - 146 (46.56% - 55.73%)

Even with full investment in Sp.Attack(Which I've never seen) Vaporeon fails to OHKO,it will however,put Shandera's sweep to a halt with the LO recoil:
350 Atk vs 215 Def & 262 HP (95 Base Power): 168 - 198 (64.12% - 75.57%)

Everyone has been drooling over the Shadow tag revenge killer set,but I'm drooling over this set:

Shandera @ LO
Modest 252 Sp.Attack/252 Speed/4 HP OR 252 Sp.Attack/188 Speed/70 HP
Flash Fire
-Shadow Ball
-Fire Blast
-HP Fighting
-Nitro Charge

The second EV spread allows you to out speed all base 115 mons,only use it if you want a little extra HP and don't fear anything above that speed.
Use Erufuun as bait,Encore a resisted move,or better yet,a fire move,and switch in.(You might have to sacrifice Erufuun though) Nitro Charge on the switch and start ripping stuff apart as you'll only fear anything faster or anything with extreme special bulk.
Best for late game.
 
After been using Nitro Charge for 2 months (my set of choice since way before smogon had a PO server), I can confirm it's THE late game sweeper, but priority rapes Shandy. Even CB Scizor's Bullet Punch is a 2KO after SR.
 
Seeing that everyone is discussing about Persian Tricking a Scarf, I actually had a similar idea to that involving Porygon2 and Shandera.

The idea is that everyone hypes about Porygon2 being the best Mixed Wall after Evolution Stone. This baits powerful Fighting-type moves due to its "Over 9000 Defenses".

Porygon2 @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Hasty
EVs: 252 Spe / 252 SpA
IVs: HP: 0 / Def: 0 / SpDef: 0
- Trick
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Filler
After a +Speed Nature and a Scarf, Porygon2 reaches 360 Speed, outspeeding pretty much all non-Scarf Fighting-types including Infernape and the 4 Musketeers. Scarfed Fighting Pokemon are not big deal either which will be explained later. Once your opponent sends out a Fighting-type Pokemon and takes out one of yours, send in Porygon2, giving the impression that it has Evolution Stone to take a hit. Knowing that you are faster, immediately use Trick to trap the opponent on their respective Fighting move. The 0 Defense, SpDef and HP IVs help your opponent KO Porygon2. The Hasty nature is also there for that reason. Then you send in Shadow Tag Shandera and let the fun begin...

Shandera @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Calm Mind
- Acid Armor
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power Fighting

Your opponent is now trapped on a Fighting move and you procede to set up 6 Calm Minds and 3 Acid Armors, leaving you at +6 Defense, +6 Special Defense and +6 Attack. Hidden Power Fighting and Flamethrower should be the only moves that you will need. You pretty much win the game at this point due to +6 on each defense. An average Earthquake does about 1/3 to you not factoring Leftovers and I'm pretty sure the enemy won't survive 3 +6 Attacks.
 
NubKnightZ said:
Seeing that everyone is discussing about Persian Tricking a Scarf, I actually had a similar idea to that involving Porygon2 and Shandera.

The idea is that everyone hypes about Porygon2 being the best Mixed Wall after Evolution Stone. This baits powerful Fighting-type moves due to its "Over 9000 Defenses".

Porygon2 @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Hasty
EVs: 252 Spe / 252 SpA
IVs: HP: 0 / Def: 0 / SpDef: 0
- Trick
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Filler
After a +Speed Nature and a Scarf, Porygon2 reaches 360 Speed, outspeeding pretty much all non-Scarf Fighting-types including Infernape and the 4 Musketeers. Scarfed Fighting Pokemon are not big deal either which will be explained later. Once your opponent sends out a Fighting-type Pokemon and takes out one of yours, send in Porygon2, giving the impression that it has Evolution Stone to take a hit. Knowing that you are faster, immediately use Trick to trap the opponent on their respective Fighting move. The 0 Defense, SpDef and HP IVs help your opponent KO Porygon2. The Hasty nature is also there for that reason. Then you send in Shadow Tag Shandera and let the fun begin...

Shandera @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Calm Mind
- Acid Armor
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power Fighting

Your opponent is now trapped on a Fighting move and you procede to set up 6 Calm Minds and 3 Acid Armors, leaving you at +6 Defense, +6 Special Defense and +6 Attack. Hidden Power Fighting and Flamethrower should be the only moves that you will need. You pretty much win the game at this point due to +6 on each defense. An average Earthquake does about 1/3 to you not factoring Leftovers and I'm pretty sure the enemy won't survive 3 +6 Attacks.
Click to expand...

Run Shadow ball and Fire Blast/FlameThrower.

Anything that resists both won't like a +6 Shadow Ball anyway.
 
Kefka the god of magic said:
Run Shadow ball and Fire Blast/FlameThrower.

Anything that resists both won't like a +6 Shadow Ball anyway.
Click to expand...

I originally used Energy Ball and Flamethrower thinking it would cover the most types but then I got worried about Heatran so I went HP Fighting. Turns out, +6 Shadow Ball hits 143% - 168.1% on Scarftran and 78.2% - 92.2% on Specially Defensive Heatran. Thanks for the suggestion.
 
It would seem that Thick Fat Snorlax is one of the best Checks to Shandera this Gen, due to its great bulk and sturdy special defenses. His immunity to Ghost, and resistance to fire make him take very very little damage even from a LO Overheat. I ran a calc a few days ago, cannot remember the exact numbers, but a LO Overheat from a Max Sp.Atk Shandera only did around 24 percent. Most Lax's also carry Crunch, making it a possible 1-2HKO depending on the Snorlax Set.
 
I used to run sub charge shandera all the time when I used to play on the dream world tier. And then fr a little while after moving to the wifi tier. It's an awesome late game sweeper. I run it with screens though, due to being somewhat frail otherwise. Flash fire boost is usually a game ender.
 
LunarEklipse said:
It would seem that Thick Fat Snorlax is one of the best Checks to Shandera this Gen, due to its great bulk and sturdy special defenses. His immunity to Ghost, and resistance to fire make him take very very little damage even from a LO Overheat. I ran a calc a few days ago, cannot remember the exact numbers, but a LO Overheat from a Max Sp.Atk Shandera only did around 24 percent. Most Lax's also carry Crunch, making it a possible 1-2HKO depending on the Snorlax Set.
Click to expand...

And then I switch in my Roobushin and force you to switch or eat a STAB SE Drain Punch :D
 
Kefka the god of magic said:
And then I switch in my Roobushin and force you to switch or eat a STAB SE Drain Punch :D
Click to expand...

That's all theorymonning is these days, constant talk of "Oh well then I'd....." and useless drawl that doesn't even reference the true capabilities of Snorlax as a counter. It doesn't matter if you have a Roobushin, its the two pokemon I brought up, one being the Pokemon that this discussion is dedicated too, and the other a possible counter for said dedication. Discussion of countering counters is unnecessary, needless and if anything, should be in the pokemon's respective thread.

Snorlax will end up being a a great check to Shandera this gen, along with Trace Porygon2@Evolution Stone, as long as Shandera has Flash Fire.

But then again, I'd assume you'd switch in your Roobushin. Apparently your Roobushin can make any argument invalid. I'll take a note of that, and I might even use that in the future. Thanks.
 
Actually, even if you bring Roobu in, Snorlax will just Pursuit Shandera into oblivion and back. If Shandera somehow lives it, Stealth Rocks will kill it upon returning.
 
KokoaKiwi said:
Actually, even if you bring Roobu in, Snorlax will just Pursuit Shandera into oblivion and back. If Shandera somehow lives it, Stealth Rocks will kill it upon returning.
Click to expand...

Furthering the possibility of a greater amount of snorlax's to combat the influx of Fire/Sp.Atk Sweepers. Even Ulgamoth is decently countered. The set I've had the most luck with is a bit unconventional.

Snorlax@Chesto
Careful/Calm(Whatever that keeps attack, not with DS at the moment)
188HP/216SPDEF/104DEF
Curse
Rest
Crunch/Pursuit
Return

Its a basic setup and heal, only walled by steels.
 
KokoaKiwi said:
Why not use Body Slam to spread paralysis?^
Also, it's careful nature.
Click to expand...

Return has a higher base power, and Paralysis wouldn't necessarily be a benefit due to it's need to curse up to really hit hard. After 1 curse, this set goes from 96 Speed to even less, too lazy to run a complete calc, but even with Paralysis, this won't outspeed anything.
 
LunarEklipse said:
Return has a higher base power, and Paralysis wouldn't necessarily be a benefit due to it's need to curse up to really hit hard. After 1 curse, this set goes from 96 Speed to even less, too lazy to run a complete calc, but even with Paralysis, this won't outspeed anything.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but on the other hand, Paralysis makes it easier for the rest of your team to handle those threats, and lets you cripple stuff that walls you so you can do something to Skarm and co.
 
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