running a wish/roar vappy doesn't make your team a stall team....
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- Thread starter reachzero
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When did I say that it makes your team a stall team?
I said that offensive teams don't usually carry phazers like that.
lol? So you just sit around during these turns? I'd understand it if the strategy caught you by surprise, but if you have realized from team preview your opponent will go for SS pass, then you should be able to deal with it. So, how about this:
Turn 1: Player 1's Deoxys-S used Reflect / Player 2's Landlos used Rock Polish
Turns 2-7: LO Landlos turns out to be mixed - specially based and sweeps.
or
Turn 1: Player 1's Deoxys-S used Taunt/ Player 2's Landlos used Earthquake.
Turn 2: Player 1's Deoxys-S used Reflect/ Player 2's Landlos used Earthquake. Deoxys-S fainted.
Turn 3: Player 1 sent out Gorebyss. Landlos used Focus Blast (90% damage). Gorebyss used SS.
Turn 4: Now Landlos will go for Hidden Power Ice. If Gorebyss stays in and Ice Beams, Roobushin can come in after Landlos is KOed and Mach Punch it. If it BPs, Garchomp will be destroyed by a 4X effective move. Hell, you could even predict the Ice Beam, and switch Roobushin in to take it and finish off Gorebyss.
The above seems a much more probable scenario than your " my opponent will easily get screens AND a BP off, while i sit around and wait".
And 2 priority users would be enough to save you from a Garchomp sweep. CB Scizor BP + LO Dragonite E-speed, or simply one Ice Sharder is all you need.
Side note: I just randomly came up with that Landlos set for an example, no comments on it please.
Either way, it doesn't prove that gorebyss bp strat is broken. You either run a bulky water which can pHaze/mischievous heart pokes/perish song etc or lose to that strat.
EDIT: @above yeah that example was pretty terrible
Have fun setting up first turn and sweeping. Do you really think that strategy was that innovative. The reason things like that NEVER work is because any team built with an ounce of though can take on those sweepers if they try to set up turn one. And you are also assuming you have perfect prediction, cause if you lead of with that Landlos, RP first turn, the Deo-S can easily set up Reflect, go out to Gorebyss, and you lose.
Well, I never said it WAS broken, just a bit hard to deal with at times.
And I didn't have a SINGLE phazer/MH mon/Perish Song user and I still won, though just barely.
EDIT: Can't Garchomp just carry a Yache Berry anyway so it's not dead weight if the strategy fails?
Just a random example i came up with, so i don't actually consider it any more... "innovative" than you do, but how the fuck will a poke with 55 base hp and 75 base spD switch in on a MIXED Landlos?
And yeah, i know it was terrible, but the point is, you shouldn't let your opponent get 5 free turns.
And most Ice-type attacks can cripple Garchomp to the point where he'll be revenged by *any* priority user, even with Yache.
And yeah, i know it was terrible, but the point is, you shouldn't let your opponent get 5 free turns.
And most Ice-type attacks can cripple Garchomp to the point where he'll be revenged by *any* priority user, even with Yache.
Random example =/= Good example
Use an example that can actually HAPPEN.
It can't safely switch in, but isn't that the whole point of the screens?
Not to mention that they could just BP over to something else, not necessarily Garchomp.
If you know it was terrible, then why post it? Again, use an example that's actually GOOD instead of pulling crap out of nowhere.
Landorus' LO Hidden Power Ice(Timid 252 Sp.Attack) on a Garchomp with a Yache Berry: 58.26% - 68.91%
Adamant 0 Attack Conkeldurr's Mach Punch on the same Garchomp:
18.77% - 22.13%
Adamant 252 Attack Conkeldurr's Mach Punch:
22.13% - 26.33%
Max Attack Conkeldurr Guts boosted Mach Punch:
28.01% - 33.05%
Please make a better example.
It's SCREENS from a pokemon with 504 Speed.
Try all you want, it's not as easy to stop as you say it is. Give us GOOD EXAMPLES or stop with the arguments.
The massive power of an UnSTAB unboosted BP ice won't break through Gorebyss, and neither will any physical attacks when Reflect is up. (deo-S would obviously set up reflect first in that situation because Landlos is a physical attacker). I personally don't care if your example was "random". Whether or not you are smart enough to come up with a good example doesn't matter (I believe you can), but if you just post random examples that prove nothing, just saying "it was random" doesn't mean anything besides the fact that you were wrong
Player 1 vs Player 2
Player 1 sent out deo-s
Player 2 sent out TTar
Player 1 set up screens with deo-s and sac'd him
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Player 1 sent out Gorebyss
Player 2 switched to Vappy
Gorebyss used Shell Smash
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Gorebyss used baton pass
Gorebyss baton passed to espeon
Vappy used Roar
Player 1: trollface
Player 1 sent out deo-s
Player 2 sent out TTar
Player 1 set up screens with deo-s and sac'd him
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Player 1 sent out Gorebyss
Player 2 switched to Vappy
Gorebyss used Shell Smash
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Gorebyss used baton pass
Gorebyss baton passed to espeon
Vappy used Roar
Player 1: trollface
Exactly. Simply Roaring or phazing out of any kind isn't always possible, and Assist Power Espeon is in itself a great receiver what with access to Magic Mirror
Now that I think about it, what are you even supposed to do against that espeon, except overwhelm it with priority?
Just saw Kefka's log, where he let Gorebyss get off two SS BPs, and i have to say, it only happened because he played badly. Why would you Leech Seed with Natt right there? Leech Seed doesn't activate when he KOs your poke, so it's not like it would have helped even if it did hit his receiver.
@above: prey on that base 60 (i think) defense, and overwhelm it with priority, exactly what you stated. Or hit it hard on the switch-in.
@above: prey on that base 60 (i think) defense, and overwhelm it with priority, exactly what you stated. Or hit it hard on the switch-in.
Cry as it uses Cosmic Power/Calm Mind and calmly BP's over to Garchomp/*insert sweeper here* or just straight out BPs to Garchomp/*insert sweeper here*
Has anyone tried out Samurott as a recipient?
He has decent bulk, good mixed stats, and a nice move pool.
I tried to Leech Seed him because Baton Pass....passes it over.
It's not T-wave would have helped much.
It is? Then just...it's an Espeon...idk, it doesn't seem too threatening.
I tried to Taunt him because of the off-chance that he would use a Screen or that I would win the speed tie.
I didn't lose much at all, as my Deoxys wouldn't stop him anyway.
And again, I used Leech Seed because it would cut his Chomp sweep short and I would have a better chance at stalling him out.
Power Whip would have done crappy damage with Reflect up.
baton pass is incompatible with Magic Mirror on espeon. So yeah.
252 Atk Adamant Choice Band Scizor Bullet Punch vs min/min neutral Espeon: 90% - 106.3%. You could put some defense vs on Espeon but the fact remains that Scizor has a high chance of ohko with rocks up. (Magic Mirror doesnt prevent the damage from stealth rock it just changes the intended target of stealth rock to your opponent when it's used.) @Kefka I don't think espeon can learn cosmic power
Good to know, but Reflect =(
Nice though that espeon can't learn cosmic power.
@UnhandledException Wow I really hadn't thought of that. Now come to think of it. What can stop Espeon when it gets the SS BP?
Psychic/Psycho Shock, Hp Fire/Shadow Ball, Reflect, Calm Mind is a very dangerous deal. you could take on a ton of attacks and deal twice as much at +2.
I don't see how that's touching T-tar...
@XienZo
I'll agree with you there. However, and this is just me nitpicking, +2 life orb neutral hp (fighting) OHKOs min/min tyranitar. It really depends on what your run in the second slot to take out checks. Hp (fighting) has a chance to ohko min/min Scizor (admitedly I know most Scizor these days run hp evs so I'm still nitpicking here.) However, hp fighting would give you trouble against Latias but you could just run Psycho Shock for that. Hrm.....
I'll agree with you there. However, and this is just me nitpicking, +2 life orb neutral hp (fighting) OHKOs min/min tyranitar. It really depends on what your run in the second slot to take out checks. Hp (fighting) has a chance to ohko min/min Scizor (admitedly I know most Scizor these days run hp evs so I'm still nitpicking here.) However, hp fighting would give you trouble against Latias but you could just run Psycho Shock for that. Hrm.....
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