OU 5th Gen Sun Stall!

[AznSeal]

Hi, i'm trying to make a sun stall team based around hazzards and jumpluff, but i seem to be missing something to make this team really shine *rimshot*. This won't be my prettiest RMT because i'm on a time constraint but i will pretty this up as soon as i can :D

Overview:

Team building process:

I started with Ninetales because he's the only pokemon with drought. He's not the greatest pokemon but I have no other choice.

Next up i added in Jumpluiff because he's the pokemon i'm making a team around. Jumpluff+sun=amazing :D

If i want to abuse Jumpluff, i'd need hazzards. Being fire based also means i'm weak to SR so i need rapid spin. Forretress is the real deal.

I needed someone to soak up fire attacks aimed at Jumpluff and Forretress so I chose Heatran. Heatran also gets a huge damage boost under drought.

I need someone to cover Heatran's weaknesses, wish pass, and soft counter dragons. I chose Vaporeon because Ice Beam+Wish+Water Absorb=<3

I needed a spin blocker on my team. Rest-talk Dusclops served the double purpose as a status absorber as well as a spin blocker. Evo stone is also too good.

Vaporeon's lightning weakness started to bite me in the arse so i switched to blissey and i never looked back.

Reuniclus, nuff said.

Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Change

He is my lead, and a darn good lead at that. He is crucial because he serves the dual purpose of setting up the entry hazards on my opponents team as well as spinning away the hazards aimed at my team. Forretress is by not like the suicide leads that try to set up and die. He is here to stay. Between wish passing, leftovers, and Heatran absorbing fire moves, he can last a while. He is also blessed to be a steel type so he can wall dragons. Which hazard I set up with Forretress depends on what Pokemon i see in the team preview. If my opponent has a lot of steels, i do spikes. Otherwise, i go toxic spikes. My favorite leads to face are leads like Swampert, Hippowdon, or other bulky leads. They can't kill me, and i'm free to chill in setup heaven. If i suspect my opponent is a taunt lead, I volt change to the appropriate counter. If I suspect a fire attack, Heatran comes in.

For his moves, Spikes and Toxic Spikes were a given. Rapid Spin is there to keep me healthy. Volt Change is there to switch out in nasty situations. I chose to be specially defensive because Forretress has no physical weaknesses. His base 140 is more than enough to stay alive in the face of physical attacks. His EVs allow him to set up on some common special based answers.

Ninetales (F) @ Balloon
Trait: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 100 SDef / 160 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Rest
- Protect
- Will-O-Wisp

I guess he's the pokemon that's required for my team. Unfortunately, he's also the weakest link. He loses to the other weather leads, and aside from setting up weather, he doesn't really do much. Because i'm stuck with him, i might as well work with him. His main pro is his speed. With Balloon+Drought, he is able to keep Doryuuzu in check. He can also serve as a decent special sponge.There's not much to say about Ninetales because y'all probably already know everything about him. I wish he was bulkier :(

Flamethrower is there for the consistent STAB. Will-O-Wisp allows him to keep Tyrannitar and other physical pokemon in check to an extent. Rest is so he has more survivability to bring on the sun longer. Protect is the arbitrary move. I don't know what else to give him other than protect. Please give me some help. His Evs are set to maximize the number of times he can switch into SR. The 160 Speed is to outrun Doryuuzu. The rest is in SpD for bulkiness.

Jumpluff (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 188 Def / 68 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Encore
- Substitute
- Sleep Powder
- Leech Seed

The star of the show! Besides looking like a Methyl group from Chemistry, this guy is why I win games. With entry hazards, this guy gets REALLY annoying. He can come in on something he resists, and then encore to force the switch to rack up damage. He can also Substitute on the switch to stay safe. Under the sun, he reaches an incredible 700 speed. This makes him the fastest subseeder to date. Once I get a hazard set up and a Jumpluff set up, something is going to die. Subseeding is an extremely safe strategy and it also annoys the heck out of people. More people rage quit than lose legitly. The main problem to this strategy are the grass pokemon that walls it. For those, I make sure to eliminate them with Heatran or Ninetales beforehand.

Leech Seed is part A of subseeding. It forces switches as well as recovers health. Due to Jumpluff's low health and leftovers, I am able to almost recover fully every turn after a sub if i have Leech Seed up. Part B is substitute. It blocks status and it also blocks damage. Quite the devastating combo. Encore is there to force switches as well. If i switch in on a stat up move or a move I resit, I encore it to set up the subseed cycle. With Jumpluff's resistance to EQ, it shouldn't be hard to find an opportunity. Sleep Powder is my last resort. On stuff i can't seed, i just sleep power and switch to something that threatens it. People are telling me Whimsicott is better but i have no idea. Whimsicott lacks sleep powder so meh.

Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power/Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roar
- Substitute

Good old specially defensive heatran. He is there to absorb the fire attacks aimed at Forretress. He is also able to bait ground attacks for Jumpluff to begin subseeding. Finally he walls dragons. I used to have tormentran but i found the lack of coverage a turn off. I opted to switch back to specially defensive heatran and he seems to be able to hold his own. His surprising bulk+sun support allows him to shrug off water attacks and neutral special attacks like nothing. His natural physical bulk also allows him to survive dragon moves. This is another pokemon i'm having trouble deciding on what to make him. Sometimes i miss Tormentran and other times i LOVE Special tran. Any suggestions?

His moveset is a bit weird. I like Lava Plume for the 30% burn but I may switch to Fire Blast. I can't decide between Earth Power or HP Ice. Sometimes I get wrecked by other fires and others i get wrecked by dragons. Roar is there because my team needs a phazer. If i find a way to stick Roar on Ninetales, i'll give Heatran both Earth Power and HP Ice. I think i'm trying to find the perfect combination of Roar, Ice move, and stealth rock between Blissey/Ninetales/Heatran.

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Wish
- Protect
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Beam

Someone once said Blissey's a whore because whores are cheap and pink. That statement couldn't be more true. Blissey is the ultimate special wall in the game. She shrugs off special attacks like nothing. On my team, Blissey serves the role of wish passer. Ice Beam also allows her to check Gliscor and Dragons. It isn't the most reliable way, but I have no other options. Blissey repaced Vaporeon because of she isn't lightning weak. Because Blissey is also the best pokemon to force switches, I opted to put Stealth Rock on her. This may come off as stupid, but i also have no one else to put rocks on.

For her moves, Wish+Protect is standard. I chose for that over softboiled because it stalls PP, adds more due to leftover recovery, and most importantly allows me to pass it to teammates. Protect is also amazing for scouting+stalling. Ice Beam is her move of choice due to its ability to soft counter Gliscor and other dragons. Finally SR is there because every stall team needs SR and Blissey has the ability to force switches almost instantly, giving her a chance to get rocks up.

Spiritomb (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Dark Pulse
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

I originally had evoDusclops but there is this pokemon called Reuniculus. Reuniculus is the biggest troll pokemon ever because it isn't affected by stall and can set up with impunity on my walls. To remedy this, I added Crotomb as the spin blocker. He can spin block like a boss and he is also able to be my late game sweeper. He also happens to completely SHUT DOWN Reuniculus. Spiritomb also acts as my status absorber due to rest. I try to remove all of his counters before I set him loose.

For his moves, Dark Pulse is chosen because it affects everything. After several Calm Minds, it'll do even decent damage to pokemon that resist it. Calm Mind is there to boost up Spiritomb's special defense as well as special attack. Rest let's him status absorb and tank better. Finally Sleep Talk lets him continue to be a thread under sleep.

Thing's i'm unhappy about my team:
No solid Gyarados Counter
No "real" offense
Has trouble against HYPER offense
It's lolsun as opposed to rain or sand
Any others you can think of?

 

[Miracle Man0]

It seems like Whimsicott could do the same thing as your jumpluff except faster. Whimsicott gets all of the moves that are in your jumpluff's set and gets priority on them, so you don't need speed. Instead, you can invest in bulk. Whimsicott has different typing than jumpluff, so you lose the ground immunity (but you still resist it). I think the EVs for Whimisicott would be 252 Def and 252 SpDef since you don't need speed, HP, or any attacks.

 

[Lemonade]

Before you get flamed, Solarbeam on Ninetales is suicide. Tyranitar can basically switch into any of Ninetales's moves freely, so if you're solar beaming your attack will be delayed a turn, leaving Tyranitar a good chance to KO you. Energy ball is ther alterntive.

If not for sleep powder, I would tell you to use Erufuun. But, use Erufuun. You don't have to waste 252EVs in speed and can add it 'Fuun's defense. It also doesn't have a SR weakness like Jumpluff does. I use

Whimsicott @ Lefties
252hp/128def/124sdef/4spe +spdef nature
Leech seed
Sub
Encore
Toxic/taunt/stun spore/anything

I don't focus on sub seeding, so I invest in HP. Its mainly to screw over greedy set up sweepers and force them to switch.

I don't find use out of Shadow Ball on Burungeru/Jellicent. Substitute makes it immune to toxic, so you can try it as an alternative to Shadow Ball. Actually, Boil Over loses power in the Sun. Since it won't be doing much damage even SEly, you can swap it for WoW for a more accurate burn. However, this would make you taunt bait.

 

[Benlisted]

Hey, nice try at Sun Stall, a notoriously difficult playstyle. I'd actually class your team more as Sun balance right now, but no matter, I'll give it a rate anyway as it looks pretty neat.

Firstly, Forry looks fine, just consider dropping Speed IVs in order to get slow VCs off more things for sure - or instead drop your Atk instead of Speed with your nature and make Forry as Fast as possible. Nitpick, but may as well be said.

Okay, for a stallish team you do not want a Tales anything like the one you have. Admittedly it's very difficult to find a good set for her when you first use her, so I'll suggest one. Since you want to rid yourself of other weathers and in particular Tran who essentially totally walls much of your team, try out the following:

Leftovers, Timid Nature
Max HP, 164 Spe at least (to beat Excadrill) but more if you'd like, rest of EVs split between SpD and SpA.
Fire Blast/Flamethrower
Disable/WoW/Toxic
Substitute
HP Fight

The key to this set is Sub and HP Fight - essentially it lets you beat Tran if you Sub as it switches into you, which is excellent. TTar can be 2HKOd safely from behind a Sub with some previous damage (WoW helps this), or Toxic lets you catch Toed and Hippo, though with T-Spikes any other status may be a bad idea. In this case - try out a Sub/Disable set, letting you stall for more Toxic damage if you have spikes on, and similar. Hopefully this Tales should work much better for you. Like the above guy said, never run Solarbeam on Tales, you're just crippling yourself against other weather teams.

Pluff is fine, Sleep Powder makes it viable over Whimsicott, as does the ground immunity.

Your Tran likewise looks OK, but consider putting Roar on him if you feel like you need some additional damage, maybe over EP since his utility for counterin Dragons is so valuable.

Now, in the last two slots I have a proposal for if you want to take a more stallish route, consider using a Wishpasser over Blaziken to keep your team healthy, given that SunStall cannot utilise much reliable recovery otherwise. Vappy makes the best one really, being able to Roar as well as Wishpass, but Jirachi, a defensive Latias, or Blissey can all perform well too. If using Vappy, you'd probably want to remove Jellicent - to which end you should consider Golurk over it as a spinblocker. Water spinners' best attack against it is neutered in Sun, and with max HP it can take an Ice Beam and OHKO Starmie right back - and he walls Excadrill reasonably as well, as well as acting as a fullstop to Terrakion.

Hope this helps, even if you don't want to take the team the direction I suggest :).

 

[AznSeal]

Hey, nice try at Sun Stall, a notoriously difficult playstyle. I'd actually class your team more as Sun balance right now, but no matter, I'll give it a rate anyway as it looks pretty neat.

Firstly, Forry looks fine, just consider dropping Speed IVs in order to get slow VCs off more things for sure - or instead drop your Atk instead of Speed with your nature and make Forry as Fast as possible. Nitpick, but may as well be said.

Okay, for a stallish team you do not want a Tales anything like the one you have. Admittedly it's very difficult to find a good set for her when you first use her, so I'll suggest one. Since you want to rid yourself of other weathers and in particular Tran who essentially totally walls much of your team, try out the following:

Leftovers, Timid Nature
Max HP, 164 Spe at least (to beat Excadrill) but more if you'd like, rest of EVs split between SpD and SpA.
Fire Blast/Flamethrower
Disable/WoW/Toxic
Substitute
HP Fight

The key to this set is Sub and HP Fight - essentially it lets you beat Tran if you Sub as it switches into you, which is excellent. TTar can be 2HKOd safely from behind a Sub with some previous damage (WoW helps this), or Toxic lets you catch Toed and Hippo, though with T-Spikes any other status may be a bad idea. In this case - try out a Sub/Disable set, letting you stall for more Toxic damage if you have spikes on, and similar. Hopefully this Tales should work much better for you. Like the above guy said, never run Solarbeam on Tales, you're just crippling yourself against other weather teams.

Pluff is fine, Sleep Powder makes it viable over Whimsicott, as does the ground immunity.

Your Tran likewise looks OK, but consider putting Roar on him if you feel like you need some additional damage, maybe over EP since his utility for counterin Dragons is so valuable.

Now, in the last two slots I have a proposal for if you want to take a more stallish route, consider using a Wishpasser over Blaziken to keep your team healthy, given that SunStall cannot utilise much reliable recovery otherwise. Vappy makes the best one really, being able to Roar as well as Wishpass, but Jirachi, a defensive Latias, or Blissey can all perform well too. If using Vappy, you'd probably want to remove Jellicent - to which end you should consider Golurk over it as a spinblocker. Water spinners' best attack against it is neutered in Sun, and with max HP it can take an Ice Beam and OHKO Starmie right back - and he walls Excadrill reasonably as well, as well as acting as a fullstop to Terrakion.

Hope this helps, even if you don't want to take the team the direction I suggest :).

Very nice suggestions :)
As for spin blocker, what would a good Golurk set be? I hear Evo Stone Dusclops is also pretty good.

 

[Benlisted]

Very nice suggestions :)
As for spin blocker, what would a good Golurk set be? I hear Evo Stone Dusclops is also pretty good.

Personally I hate that Dusclops has virtually no offensive power (and it makes you more Heatran weak). It can be used very well, though. Anyway, a good Goruugu set is simply max Atk/max HP, Adamant (or Brave to avoid Payback) with the moves: Earthquake, Hammer Arm, Shadow Punch, and Stone Edge. Lefties as the item. It has suprising bulk, living Ice Beams from all manner of things and OHKOing back. Lack of recovery is mitigated by Wish, if you include it.

 

[AznSeal]

i made some changes to reflect the current opinions. Any more help greatly appreciated :D

 

[AznSeal]

I did a total revamp of my team. More critique please~

 

[AznSeal]

Bump?

 

[Captain Canada]

hey!

First time poster but long time battler. You may try a defensive Heatran since you already have Jumpluff to force switches. This allows you to check dragons easier and to ease up the stealth rock slot on blissey for perhaps toxic or healbell.

Heatran@Balloon/leftovers
Calm
252 Hp, 252 SDef, 4 Def
Stealth Rock
Hidden Power [Ice]/Earth Power
Lava Plume
Roar

 

[AznSeal]

hey!

First time poster but long time battler. You may try a defensive Heatran since you already have Jumpluff to force switches. This allows you to check dragons easier and to ease up the stealth rock slot on blissey for perhaps toxic or healbell.

Heatran@Balloon/leftovers
Calm
252 Hp, 252 SDef, 4 Def
Stealth Rock
Hidden Power [Ice]/Earth Power
Lava Plume
Roar

I tried a modified set but i'm still not sure about the Ninetales/Blissey/Ninetales move distribution.

 

[Captain Canada]

I tried a modified set but i'm still not sure about the Ninetales/Blissey/Ninetales move distribution.

Perhaps roar on tales, sr on heatran, and seismic toss on blissey?

 

[evan1o1]

Hmm...... you don't have stealth rock and only one phazer. you definitely need stealth rock somewhere. you won't need a complete gyara counter then. maybe take volt change away from forry? dont worry about him being taunt bait, cause he'll always be that no matter what he has. also, i've been testing out this little thing called Sableye, because I too have a weakness to Reuniculus. It's actually really good. it may not be for you, because you don't have much offense though. I think you might wanna give it a try over Spiritomb though.

 

[AznSeal]

Hmm...... you don't have stealth rock and only one phazer. you definitely need stealth rock somewhere. you won't need a complete gyara counter then. maybe take volt change away from forry? dont worry about him being taunt bait, cause he'll always be that no matter what he has. also, i've been testing out this little thing called Sableye, because I too have a weakness to Reuniculus. It's actually really good. it may not be for you, because you don't have much offense though. I think you might wanna give it a try over Spiritomb though.

I tried sableye and I prefer spiritomb. Also I have sr on blissey.

 

[kejective]

First off, props for attempting to build Sun Stall when sun is hard enough.
I would change volt change on forry to EQ or Gyro Ball. Reason: if something threatens Forry, it won't stay in anyways, and volt change is too weak to do significant damage on things it doesn't threaten. Overall switching can probably net you the same results.

Second: whimsicott/erefunn to replace jumpluff. Priority beats speed anyways and whimsicott is the best sub seeder in existence due to priority and overall bulk.

Spiritomb isn't as useful overall due to the influx of strong attackers, and it really needs several CM boosts to do anything. Try regular rotom to counter your gyarados problem and create some offensive power.

Lastly, try a rest/harvest exeggutor. It will definitely help with offensive troubles and provide good stalling. Set is

Exeggutor @ lum berry
Trait:harvest
Bulky evs depending on what your team needs.
Solarbeam
Low kick
Filler
Rest

Infinite recovery and great bulk.

Out of curiosity are from basil?

 

[AznSeal]

First off, props for attempting to build Sun Stall when sun is hard enough.
I would change volt change on forry to EQ or Gyro Ball. Reason: if something threatens Forry, it won't stay in anyways, and volt change is too weak to do significant damage on things it doesn't threaten. Overall switching can probably net you the same results.

Second: whimsicott/erefunn to replace jumpluff. Priority beats speed anyways and whimsicott is the best sub seeder in existence due to priority and overall bulk.

Spiritomb isn't as useful overall due to the influx of strong attackers, and it really needs several CM boosts to do anything. Try regular rotom to counter your gyarados problem and create some offensive power.

Lastly, try a rest/harvest exeggutor. It will definitely help with offensive troubles and provide good stalling. Set is

Exeggutor @ lum berry
Trait:harvest
Bulky evs depending on what your team needs.
Solarbeam
Low kick
Filler
Rest

Infinite recovery and great bulk.

Out of curiosity are from basil?

I will try that on Forretress. Thanks :D

I will also test Errefun over Jumpluff. I guess the main reason i opted for pluff is his EQ resistence leads to many encores and he has sleep power. I guess Taunt on Errefun may also work. I shall test it and see!

Finally, Spiritomb is there for a spin blocker. If Rotom was still Ghost, i'd hop on him in a heartbeat. Finally, Spiritomb provides a hard counter ro Reuniculus, which wrecks stall in general if uncountererd.

And yes i am from basil :D

 

[AznSeal]

bump