So what would be Cobalion's most effective set? I don't like the CM set, because Steel STAB does not offer great coverage, and 70% accurate Fighting STAB just sucks. I hate relying on Focus Miss, even if he can afford them more than anyone else with his defenses. The Swords Dance set seems nice, but there are much better 'mons for Swords Dance, and all Cobalion really has to diferentiate is Taunt. Cheer Up looks good, but splitting his mediocre offenses isn't the best idea. I thought maybe using a Claw Sharpen set with Close Combat/Sacred Sword, Iron Head, and Focus Blast, so it could boost the 70% accuracy, but then it loses HP Ice, at which point the Attack boost seems wasted. As for his ability, switching in on Dark type attacks for a free boost is nice, but using a CM set makes this completly irrelevent. This guy just doesn't seem to have anything going for it.
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Cobalion
- Thread starter Uncommon Madness
- Start date
I dont know if this has been said before, but why is stone edge only an option on the swords dance set? Fighting+steel doesnt offer good coverage, getting walled by Zapdos, Gyrados, Pringles, and more. Taunt doesnt really do much IMO. Instead of taunting he should be SDing on something he scares out. The set should look like this:
~Swords dance
~Close combat/sacred sword
~Stone edge
~Iron head/Taunt
Iron head doesn't even do much because the same types it hits super effectively fighting does too. Types it hits NVE (bug, poison, flying, ghost) are all hit hard by stone edge. Iron head does help against that ghost/ground though.
~Swords dance
~Close combat/sacred sword
~Stone edge
~Iron head/Taunt
Iron head doesn't even do much because the same types it hits super effectively fighting does too. Types it hits NVE (bug, poison, flying, ghost) are all hit hard by stone edge. Iron head does help against that ghost/ground though.
Iron Head is pretty bad overall, it's only use I can see is against Golurk and Toxicroak.
Taunt is actually pretty useful against other walls, like Jellicent (though you don't want to be hit by Scald anyway <_<). It also lets you set up on Skarmory and some other things, allowing you to force more switches and try to get more SDs.
You only use Cobalion if you want a mixture of bulk, speed, and offense. He's very balanced but doesn't excel at anything if you make him a SDer.
Taunt is actually pretty useful against other walls, like Jellicent (though you don't want to be hit by Scald anyway <_<). It also lets you set up on Skarmory and some other things, allowing you to force more switches and try to get more SDs.
You only use Cobalion if you want a mixture of bulk, speed, and offense. He's very balanced but doesn't excel at anything if you make him a SDer.
Why do most of the sets suggest HP Ice?
Because some of Cobalion's biggest counters (Gliscor for example) are taken out by HP Ice.
HP Ice also lets Cobalion deal with dragons without having to use Stone Edge, most Dragons also can't deal with Cobalion outright either, thanks to it's typing. The main Dragons Cobalion has to worry about are Latios, Garchomp and Salamence, two of which are outsped and taken down by HP Ice quite well.
Cobalion actually makes for a pretty good answer to most Dragon types with HP Ice too, as it's defenses, typing, and speed let it take care of anything that doesn't fire blast on the switch. He's not a hard counter, but he's a tough check if your team is dragon weak.
If you're using Special Attacks, you may also want to consider Volt Switch. If your opponent does not have a bulky ground type to answer your Cobalion, then chances are they do have SOMETHING that CAN handle Cobalion. Volt Switch lets you get some nice momentum going. Cobalion only has about four choices with special attacks anyway (Focus Blast, Flash Cannon, Volt Switch, Hidden Power), and though using Volt Switch on a CM-set seems counter-productive, CM Volt Switch still does hurt things that might've wanted to switch in originally, like Jellicent.
So what IVs does Cobalion need to get HP Ice 70?
Even/Even/Even/Odd/Odd/Odd
Odd/Even/Even/Odd/Odd/Odd
Even/Odd/Even/Odd/Odd/Odd
Odd/Odd/Odd/Odd/Odd/Even
Where [IV / 2 = Odd] for every IV.
So I take it most Cobalion use Calm Mind? And if so, I also take it that it's main attack is Flash Cannon, not Focus Blast, right?
It's pretty hard to say what "most Cobalion" use when Cobalion is pretty underused actually.
It's not bad, but it doesn't do many "outstanding" things.
If there's one place Cobalion was built to be amazing, it's UU. It's not competing with any other Fighting/Steel with vastly better sweeping abilities (Lucario), or Pokemon of similar stat spreads that can run the same sets it does better (Virizion, Terrakion). In fact, it's going to be plenty difficult to take down with that huge base defense, which keeps the likes of even super effective priority abusers from picking it off. I have a feeling it's going to be the death of a lot of UU teams all by itself.
That's assuming Lucario won't also be UU..which at this rate it seems like Colbalion's calling card will be the ever exciting NU tier...
I use an pretty standard set for OU (IMO, Cobalion has OU potential)
Cobalion@leftovers
Jolly: 140 HP/ 136 ATK/ 232 Spe
Close Combat
Taunt
Swords Dance
X-scissor
Its main purpose is to clean up after you have taken care of threats such as skarmory, jellicent, and Gliscor. If you can get a free switch in (predict their switch or on a toxic) you can almost always get a free swords dance. Since using SD is bait for Will-o-wisp, taunting essentially makes you immune to WoW (as most WoW users are slower). I have experimented with moving the HP EVs into attack, but I like the bulk because it lets you take neutral moves better. I also tried replacing leftovers with a life orb, but that drastically decreased Cobalion's survivability. The last moveslot was a toss up between iron head and X-scissor. Iron head is an option because it is STAB and has a flinch chance, while X-s gives it a way to deal with psychics and darks without the defense drop. X scissor won because it destroys Reuniclus and lets me deal with Jirachi (the defense drop made Jirachi hit too hard for me to survive.
Cobalion@leftovers
Jolly: 140 HP/ 136 ATK/ 232 Spe
Close Combat
Taunt
Swords Dance
X-scissor
Its main purpose is to clean up after you have taken care of threats such as skarmory, jellicent, and Gliscor. If you can get a free switch in (predict their switch or on a toxic) you can almost always get a free swords dance. Since using SD is bait for Will-o-wisp, taunting essentially makes you immune to WoW (as most WoW users are slower). I have experimented with moving the HP EVs into attack, but I like the bulk because it lets you take neutral moves better. I also tried replacing leftovers with a life orb, but that drastically decreased Cobalion's survivability. The last moveslot was a toss up between iron head and X-scissor. Iron head is an option because it is STAB and has a flinch chance, while X-s gives it a way to deal with psychics and darks without the defense drop. X scissor won because it destroys Reuniclus and lets me deal with Jirachi (the defense drop made Jirachi hit too hard for me to survive.
i always felt that something else in the last slot was a better choice. boosting move+volt switch isnt bad, its just that without stab its just not the same as sd scizor uturn which has that extra umph, you know? Personally, I'd run Taunt/iron head/flash cannon there, taunt lets it beat stuff like mew and walls etc and iron head provides a secondary stab that doesn't lower your defense.
Seems decent to me. Gliscor and Dragon-types eat HP Ice, Jellicent, Slowbro, and Gyarados eat Volt Switch, and everything else takes Close Combat. Obviously, things like Reuniclus resist Close Combat but will still take a decent hit from Volt Switch.
It seems like focusing on one Atk would be better, though.
Edit: Actually, it's really similar to the Calm Mind set, which is listed as the standard for OU. Work Up still boosts its SpAtk like Calm Mind, but it then uses Close Combat to utilize the Atk boost and to KO Blissey and Tyranitar more easily and uses Volt Switch over Flash Cannon, for whatever reason.
It seems like focusing on one Atk would be better, though.
Edit: Actually, it's really similar to the Calm Mind set, which is listed as the standard for OU. Work Up still boosts its SpAtk like Calm Mind, but it then uses Close Combat to utilize the Atk boost and to KO Blissey and Tyranitar more easily and uses Volt Switch over Flash Cannon, for whatever reason.
People shouldn't be so obtuse, Volt Switch is a fine addition to that set. Cobalion's main (only?) advantage over the other Fighting types in OU is his ability to switch in on a fuckload of things thanks to his typing and defense so you can usually scout your counters and do a bit of momentum-grabbing early game with Volt Switch. Similarly, if you misplay and Work Up too early, you can still get in a boosted attack on your way out (reference that recent Warstory where Taylor Volt Switches out against Slowbro). Some of you guys might remember a spell in 4th Gen where Swords Dance/U-turn Scizor was quite popular and it worked perfectly well - I doubt this will be quite as effective because...well...it's Cobalion, but the premise of boosting move + U-turn/Volt Switch is sound.
Oh, and what else are you gonna use, the only other moves he learns that are worth a damn on that set are Stone Edge, Iron Head, X-Scissor, Taunt, Flash Cannon, Substitute and Thunder Wave and they're of arguably more questionable worth than Volt Switch.
Oh, and what else are you gonna use, the only other moves he learns that are worth a damn on that set are Stone Edge, Iron Head, X-Scissor, Taunt, Flash Cannon, Substitute and Thunder Wave and they're of arguably more questionable worth than Volt Switch.
Well here's a crazy thought: Instead of drooling over his 108 Speed & trying to sweep with his lackluster 90 Base Attack Stats, let's start looking into the fact that Cobalion's overall Defense among Steel-types is only matched by Dialga, Bastiodon, & Registeel due to his above average HP for a Defensive Steel. On top of that he has phenomenal defensive typing and Speed to boot.
Well here's a crazy thought: What does that matter, really? If i want a physically bulky, offensive steel to take outrages and dish back, metagross has the edge because of SR, as well as pursuit, which helps beat down the latis. I can see some niches, but they're kind of... slim.
Well think of it as a change of pace. No offense to anyone but, from my point of view, what this entire thread is doing is basically trying to turn Overgrow Serperior into a sweeper. Cobalion, just like Serperior, he has all the tools to setup (Hell, they both get SD & CM) but he just doesn't have the stats except for Speed. The difference is that Serperior's stats are low enough that it was obvious that it wasn't going to sweep. Virizion can get away with it solely for the fact that it's STABs alone shit all over Sand Teams while Cobalion has Close Combat & non-STAB Stone Edge as it's best coverage.
People just see that 108 Base Speed and Fighting-typing which makes them immediately think "OFFENSE!"
In terms of raw stats, Cobalion just a faster and better Skarmory. It's move-pool is nowhere near as good as Skarm's, but it's defensive stats are just slightly better than Skarmory's. Just enough to made a difference between a 2HKO & a 3HKO. Don't believe me?
Just like I said in my last post, only Dialga can rival Cobalion's overall defenses without having to resort to Pokemon with very common x4 weaknesses (Bastiodon) or just general uselessness. (Sorry, Registeel)
You'll notice that Cobalion is running Max/Max in those calcs and he's taking a maximum of 76% from those normally devastating moves, so Cobalion has a bit of wiggle-room with his EVs depending on what kind of hits you want to prepare him for. Of course you don't want him to get hit by those SE moves in the first place but insurance is always nice to have.
Taking a quick look at his (usable) defensive move-pool:
Calm Mind
Metal Burst
Reflect
Rest
Roar
Safeguard
Substitute
Taunt
Thunder Wave
Toxic
With Cobalion's naturally high Speed, Taunt becomes a great option to shut down Stall. (Not that many stall Pokemon like staying in on Cobalion) Because of Taunt, he's one of the few Defensive Steel-types that entirely shuts down Ferrothorn.
Roar is a great option for Cobalion. While he as competition from Skarmory, Cobalion isn't forced to switch out anywhere near as easily due to his Typing, Taunt, & Close Combat and can actually be rather effective for building up Entry Hazard damage to allow a teammate to sweep.
Safeguard is giant F-You to Jellicent and turns it into Setup Bait for any teammate that would otherwise fear Burn.
Thunder Wave is the bane of Cobalion's Brothers who think they have the edge over their leader as well as most other speedy sweepers.
Toxic hits just about everything Close Combat won't for some free passive damage, minus Poison-types of course.
Being able to set-up Reflect against something like a +1 Dragonite and not even slightly fear anything it can do to you in return is admittedly pretty badass.
A Defensive Calm Mind set could be interesting, but to compensate for his Fire Weakness & low Sp.Def, a good amount of EVs would have to be put into Sp.Def to make it work. But again, he has that wiggle-room to move some EVs around.
Personally, I've been running this set; which takes a few of the best options from that list and uses them rather effectively:
Cobalion @ Leftovers
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Taunt
- Roar
- Thunder Wave
The EVs aren't optimized, but I'll leave it up to you to decide on more Attack or Sp.Def with those "extra" EVs should you choose to change them. Overall, great stall-breaker, x4 resistance to Stealth Rock, immune to Toxic Spikes & Sandstorm Damage, phazing, powerful STAB move to keep it threatening, scares the shit out of Mixed Tyranitar & Ferrothorn unlike most Defensive Steel-types. To go even further down the rabbit hole, Cobalion can run Hidden Power Ice & a Relaxed nature as the ultimate "F-You" to Gliscor & Landorus; and again, it's Speed is naturally high so it can afford to run a -Speed nature if needed for a mixed set.
Defensive Cobalion has a lot of untapped potential and the only glaring problem with it is the lack of reliable recovery; but from my experience that x4 SR resistance & immunity to Sandstorm really shows how great Leftovers can be as in the vast majority of my battles, Cobalion is one of the last 3 standing and almost always is above 50% HP at that point so I can vouch that it has longevity.
But like with most of the underrated sets I hype, you really have to see it in action to be able to properly judge it. It's a defensive Fighting-type which really hasn't been done outside of maaaybe Hitmontop, if you actually count that as "defensive", so skepticism is entirely justified. But again, you just have to try it to understand what it does.
People just see that 108 Base Speed and Fighting-typing which makes them immediately think "OFFENSE!"
In terms of raw stats, Cobalion just a faster and better Skarmory. It's move-pool is nowhere near as good as Skarm's, but it's defensive stats are just slightly better than Skarmory's. Just enough to made a difference between a 2HKO & a 3HKO. Don't believe me?
252 +1 Atk Dragonite Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Cobalion: 25.65% - 30.31% [4-5 hits to KO (with Leftovers)]
252 +1 Atk Dragonite Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory: 27.84% - 33.23% [4-5 hits to KO (with Leftovers)]
252 +1 Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs 252 HP/252 Def Cobalion: 43.52% - 51.3% [3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)]
252 +1 Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory: 47.31% - 55.69% [2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)]
252 Atk +Sand Force Landorus Earthquake vs 252 HP/252 Def Cobalion: 65.28% - 76.94% [2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)]
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs 252 HP/252 Def Cobalion: 61.4% - 72.28% [2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)]
252 +1 Atk Dragonite Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory: 27.84% - 33.23% [4-5 hits to KO (with Leftovers)]
252 +1 Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs 252 HP/252 Def Cobalion: 43.52% - 51.3% [3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)]
252 +1 Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory: 47.31% - 55.69% [2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)]
252 Atk +Sand Force Landorus Earthquake vs 252 HP/252 Def Cobalion: 65.28% - 76.94% [2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)]
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs 252 HP/252 Def Cobalion: 61.4% - 72.28% [2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)]
Just like I said in my last post, only Dialga can rival Cobalion's overall defenses without having to resort to Pokemon with very common x4 weaknesses (Bastiodon) or just general uselessness. (Sorry, Registeel)
You'll notice that Cobalion is running Max/Max in those calcs and he's taking a maximum of 76% from those normally devastating moves, so Cobalion has a bit of wiggle-room with his EVs depending on what kind of hits you want to prepare him for. Of course you don't want him to get hit by those SE moves in the first place but insurance is always nice to have.
Taking a quick look at his (usable) defensive move-pool:
Calm Mind
Metal Burst
Reflect
Rest
Roar
Safeguard
Substitute
Taunt
Thunder Wave
Toxic
With Cobalion's naturally high Speed, Taunt becomes a great option to shut down Stall. (Not that many stall Pokemon like staying in on Cobalion) Because of Taunt, he's one of the few Defensive Steel-types that entirely shuts down Ferrothorn.
Roar is a great option for Cobalion. While he as competition from Skarmory, Cobalion isn't forced to switch out anywhere near as easily due to his Typing, Taunt, & Close Combat and can actually be rather effective for building up Entry Hazard damage to allow a teammate to sweep.
Safeguard is giant F-You to Jellicent and turns it into Setup Bait for any teammate that would otherwise fear Burn.
Thunder Wave is the bane of Cobalion's Brothers who think they have the edge over their leader as well as most other speedy sweepers.
Toxic hits just about everything Close Combat won't for some free passive damage, minus Poison-types of course.
Being able to set-up Reflect against something like a +1 Dragonite and not even slightly fear anything it can do to you in return is admittedly pretty badass.
A Defensive Calm Mind set could be interesting, but to compensate for his Fire Weakness & low Sp.Def, a good amount of EVs would have to be put into Sp.Def to make it work. But again, he has that wiggle-room to move some EVs around.
Personally, I've been running this set; which takes a few of the best options from that list and uses them rather effectively:
Cobalion @ Leftovers
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Taunt
- Roar
- Thunder Wave
The EVs aren't optimized, but I'll leave it up to you to decide on more Attack or Sp.Def with those "extra" EVs should you choose to change them. Overall, great stall-breaker, x4 resistance to Stealth Rock, immune to Toxic Spikes & Sandstorm Damage, phazing, powerful STAB move to keep it threatening, scares the shit out of Mixed Tyranitar & Ferrothorn unlike most Defensive Steel-types. To go even further down the rabbit hole, Cobalion can run Hidden Power Ice & a Relaxed nature as the ultimate "F-You" to Gliscor & Landorus; and again, it's Speed is naturally high so it can afford to run a -Speed nature if needed for a mixed set.
Defensive Cobalion has a lot of untapped potential and the only glaring problem with it is the lack of reliable recovery; but from my experience that x4 SR resistance & immunity to Sandstorm really shows how great Leftovers can be as in the vast majority of my battles, Cobalion is one of the last 3 standing and almost always is above 50% HP at that point so I can vouch that it has longevity.
But like with most of the underrated sets I hype, you really have to see it in action to be able to properly judge it. It's a defensive Fighting-type which really hasn't been done outside of maaaybe Hitmontop, if you actually count that as "defensive", so skepticism is entirely justified. But again, you just have to try it to understand what it does.