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Gen V Initial UU
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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Genesect is an unreleased event pokemon, but it is allowed in the Dream World tier.
Victini is very viable in OU. STAB V-Create still absolutely demolishes everything, and Drought will probably always be legal in OU unless all weather is banned, so V-Create will even severely damage the things that resist it. Essentially, anything without the Flash Fire ability or a 4x Fire resist are going to be taking quite a bit of damage.
Even if it is viable in OU, like most UU Pokemon this gen are, I just don't see it pulling that last-minute usage out of thin air to go OU (unless people wise up and stop using Chandelure...). Either way, whether or not it goes OU by this time next month is irrelevant because it's being put to a vote before then.
Also, aren't tiering changes made every three months IIRC? If they keep this policy a la 4th gen, waiting for something to go OU so we can avoid having to make a decision on is clearly not the answer.
Also, aren't tiering changes made every three months IIRC? If they keep this policy a la 4th gen, waiting for something to go OU so we can avoid having to make a decision on is clearly not the answer.
i think is month per month untill the tier is a little more stable, then the month period enlarges, and i can easily see victini in OU, but i also could see Mew in OU and you know how that ended, victini's average speed tier and average atack stats are what will keep him down-OU/UU so we have to ban it unless we want him back every few months
It would be a good idea to have make a verdict on Victini's BL status whether or not it goes to OU. That way, if it is given BL status and is made an OU, we would still know it is BL should it ever fall from OU (unless people wish to test it again at that time). Using the data we've been able to get in this round to make a verdict can only help smooth tiering later on. Why redo work if you've already done it?
As much as Victini is dominating UU right now, I don't see him rising in OU usage any time soon. While in UU his massive power is quite hard to come by in other Pokemon, the enormous power creep and the presence of things like Haxorus in OU means that Victini faces competition not just among Sun abusers and Fire-types but also among raw powerhouses. While Victini is definitely viable in OU, it's so hard to find space on your team for a Fire-type that's as one dimensional as Victini. Even Chandelure can at least function as a spinblocker, while Heatran and Infernape can both serve a wide variety of purposes. Victini, while he technically can do all kinds of things too, doesn't really have a reason to be doing anything other than firing off V-create in OU, and you can find things approximately as powerful that can do more and aren't weak to Stealth Rock.
I don`t see how victini is outclassed in OU there are two phyisical Firetypes in OU with Infernape and Darmanitan. the first one is usually a mixed wallbreaker and Darmanitan has less inital speed and the recoil is really nasty.
Being weak to pursuit sucks but afaik TTar can be 2HKOed and doesn't even outspeed after the speed drop so atleast you will always KO one pokemon if played right.
It may not be a top OU Pokemon, but it can run quit a lot of different sets to surprise wannabe counters and V-Generate hits most physical walls neutrally so only very few pokemon are safe.
Being weak to pursuit sucks but afaik TTar can be 2HKOed and doesn't even outspeed after the speed drop so atleast you will always KO one pokemon if played right.
It may not be a top OU Pokemon, but it can run quit a lot of different sets to surprise wannabe counters and V-Generate hits most physical walls neutrally so only very few pokemon are safe.
BurningMan, Infernape is better than Victini in OU. It has less checks, is not SR weak or Pursuit-weak, faster, and can still 2HKO many things with CB Flare Blitz in the Sun. At the very least, you're not worried about Ttar coming in or being countered by Garchomp since you can KO both without much problem. It also has CB Mach Punch and Iron Fist for Excadrill. There's no way any sane player will give that spot to Victini, or worse yet, put both on the same team. Victini's advantages over OU's many present powerhouses are far and few in between.
There is an ideal number. Look at it this way. Which of these two options would you prefer?
1. Ban as much as possible to get a balanced metagame.
2. Ban as little as possible to get a balanced metagame.
This statement makes no sense. If "broken stuff runs rampart", then people will want to ban it. Clearly you think we're all sitting here thinking "Oh, Chansey is clearly broken, but I don't want to ban it because I'm scared". But what we're actually thinking "Chansey isn't broken, so I don't want to ban it". I just used Chansey as an example, but the general principle is the same for those people who don't want to ban a Pokemon.
Trapping effects can no longer be passed, and as a result Umbreon isn't special as a Baton Passer in the slightest.
I was responding to the statement that kyurem was ok in the metagame just because he has checks and some counters because of it's typing, which he has, but he's bulky enough to take CC from arcanine and match punch from Hipmontop (and he can swich), broken stuff can run and just because people doesn't realize that it's counters are unreliable or that very little team support to take them down, i see vulpix, mew and azelf being broken, but for now, victini destroying UU makes them look ok
Both options are N/A. The balanced metagame will occur regardless of how many Pokemon are removed from the tier. Playing the numbers game just means you're not focusing on the big picture, which is to make this tier as balanced and competitive as possible. That's my goal, and it should be the goal of any other responsible voter as well.
I am just so happy that Emboar is now actually viable since he is in a tier without Heatran, Darmanitan, Chandelure, Speed Boost Blaziken and Infernape to make him look bad.
Im still not afraid of Escavalier so long as I have my Emboar by my side to keep me safe.
Yeah, but if the person using Escavalier is smart, they have a Flash Fire person to eat up the fire and then turn it back on you. I've done 75% to an Emboar with flash fired Flare Blitz from Arcanine because someone thought it was a good idea to try to flame my Escavalier :P
In response to the original quote "don't you think the amount of damage he can do is ridiculous" well yeah that's kinda his point. The point of Pokemon is to do as much damage as possible. You act like he doesn't have counters, yet MOST of them are specially defensive and are quite easily taken down by physical move, and even a specially defensive (339 sp def, 344 HP) Esca is taken down by a Kyurem with HP Fire, or pretty much any other fire type move regardless of the attack type. Escavalier is dangerous, but so is almost everything else high up in the metagame, and he doesn't have "broken" stats or lack his fair share of weaknesses and counters.
Well victini got more bulk and doesn't needs to sacrifice half of its health for one attack, Sun teams pretty much require a spinner anyway so the SR weakness will usually be worked around anyway. Victini can U-Turn if it expects a TTar and can pick off a weakend one pretty easily so TTar can only pursuit you on revenge. Garchomp actually has a very slight chance of being OHKOed by CB V-Generate with SR in the Sun and takes 79.9 min. Outside of the Sun he still takes 53.4%- 62.8% so he is one time use at best (he may gets a free SD, but it could also mean his death).
As i said he may not be a top OU Poke, but he will still be OU for the same reasons Swampert, Haxosaur and other questionable things are OU.
Edit: Oh it is acutally a pretty decent CM rank counter wich counts for something.
Well, Umbreon is freaking bulky, a trait that not many baton passers have. He can easily pass a work up or two to a mixed attacker, or a hone claws to something else.
Indeed, Umbreon can be useful as a Baton Passer. But unlike Mew, Smeargle, or Ninjask, it's not that special in terms of accomplishing something other Pokemon could not accomplish - not anymore, anyway.
There is a big possibility that Victini will rise to OU because of V-Create's sheer power. However, if Victini fares poorly in OU, and we all have decided that it is too powerful for UU, I'm pretty certain it will drop to BL, and stay there for a while, unless people give it enough love to rise back to OU. IIIRC, there has never been an incident of a pokemon moving from OU then UU then OU then UU, and so on. Some pokemon move from NU then UU then NU then UU again because there is no banlist for NU, so pokemon who are "banned" from NU rise to UU.
I'm sure there's a few more examples, but I recall Umbreon doing some of that in Generation IV. The reason that's possible is because OU is technically a measure of usage, not power. A Pokemon can be OU while still not being overpowered for UU.
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