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Gen V Initial UU

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bombiron said:
just saying houndoom is a very hard counter to victini with immunity to both stabs
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It's more of a check than a counter, really. A counter is commonly defined as a Pokémon that can switch in on any of the countered's attacks without taking significant damage and in return reliably being able to attack/status-stall the countered to death. Mixed Victini I'll admit is a little less common than purely physical variants, but it does see use. A neutral natured Victini with 80 SpA EVs reaches 256 SpA. With a Life Orb this is enough to 1HKO 4 HP Houndoom with Focus Blast everytime. Jolly Choice Band Victini also KOs -Def nature, one of the most common types of natures for a Houndoom, with Wild Charge after Stealth Rock damage. Adamant Choice Band variants KO neutral Def natured Houndoom with 4 HP after Stealth Rock damage, as well.

Typically, a savvy player will take note of the foe's Pokémon before the battle. If said player has Victini on their team they'll especially want to take note of any possible Flash Fire Pokémon, in this case Houndoom. Now, seeing as the smart thing to do when facing a team with a possible check/trapper to Victini is to not V-Create blindly, you can expect to be faced with a U-Turn when switching in Houndoom a great deal of the time. Jolly Choice Band Victini 2HKOs neutral Def natured 4 HP Houndoom 100% of the time with U-Turn. Adamant Choice Band Victini 1HKOs negative Def natured Houndoom a little over 50% of the time with SR damage(with U-Turn). Unfortunately, not even Choice Band Max Attack Houndoom can KO 4 HP Victini on the switch with a Pursuit, so the only way to effectively trap and KO Choice Victini locked into V-Create is to let it V-Create before switching in Houndoom, thus lowering it's defense. Unfortunately, that may mean sacrificing a team mate.

In conclusion checks =/= counters, and Houndoom is a check.

EDIT: FFFFFFFFFFFF- That feel when you get ninja'd...

Another Edit: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3446938&page=17 I saw this a few minutes later... Why did I spend 20 minutes writing this post up and doing calcs? *sigh*
 
I find it interesting that people want to ban Vulpix. Do they realize that if Vulpix was banned, it would have little to no use anywhere else, with big brother Ninetales sunning it up in OU. Now that doesn't really matter when it comes to banning things, but just because something is a very good supporter doesn't mean it should immediately get banned.
 
athleteandy1 said:
I find it interesting that people want to ban Vulpix. Do they realize that if Vulpix was banned, it would have little to no use anywhere else, with big brother Ninetales sunning it up in OU. Now that doesn't really matter when it comes to banning things, but just because something is a very good supporter doesn't mean it should immediately get banned.
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If it overcentralizes the metagame or it makes other pokemon TOO POWERFUL yeah it should.

For example it's like Level 1 Kyoger in gen 4 OU. Sure Kyoger wasn't posing a threat to anyone or anything at level 1, but it's partners became damn near impossible to deal with.
 
So what?, blaze balziken doesn't see use anywere and that doesn't make him less banned than Speed Boost one, if the best set of a pokemon is too good then it's banned, wynout didn't really see any use and was banned like bug brother, sad for some pokes yeah, but not for the meta
 
athleteandy1 said:
I find it interesting that people want to ban Vulpix. Do they realize that if Vulpix was banned, it would have little to no use anywhere else, with big brother Ninetales sunning it up in OU. Now that doesn't really matter when it comes to banning things, but just because something is a very good supporter doesn't mean it should immediately get banned.
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That's generally how booting Pokemon to BL works. It's an unfortunate effect of bans, and it's why they should be avoided unless necessary, but if something doesn't need to go, it doesn't matter whether it's Drought or Yanmega.
 
I can't possibly see Suicune not making the top 10. Victini, Kyurem, and Arcanine are other shoe-ins. Might see Donphan and Hitmontop up there as well?
 
Boarbeque said:
My theory for when they post the UU tier usage is that Durant and Arcanine will at least be in the top 10.
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What? No, just, no. Arcanine, MAYBE I could see it, since it's got Flash Fire, Morning Sun, Wild Charge, and Flare Blitz. But Durant? Not while all these Grass-types with HP Fire are still around.

I'm seeing Abomasnow and Vulpix in the Top 10, along with Victini and Kyurem. After that, probably various Chlorophyll, along with possibly Slowbro and/or Kingdra and Flygon.
 
Looking forward to testing out a hail team in Gen 5 UU. Even if Kyurem gets banned or whatever, Glaceon is still a great Hail threat. Should be a lot of fun.
 
Boarbeque said:
My theory for when they post the UU tier usage is that Durant and Arcanine will at least be in the top 10.
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Durant isn't THAT popular. Arcanine is very popular though and I would bank on it being one of the five most used Pokemon in UU.

Phox said:
I can't possibly see Suicune not making the top 10. Victini, Kyurem, and Arcanine are other shoe-ins. Might see Donphan and Hitmontop up there as well?
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Suicune is not used that much.
 
Suicune isn't used much, but it really should be. There's a reason it was OU last Gen compared to all the other waters in this tier. Crocune absolutely rips teams apart that don't have trickscarfers.
 
Do you guys really not run into Suicune much? Weird, I swear I see it on at least half the teams I play...maybe just a coincidence.
 
Me too. It wouldn't surprise me if Suicune were at least top 15. Nor would it if Victini were #1. >_>
 
I could see Suicune being in the Top 20 for this month and eventually rising into the Top in the future, once people see that it is the best bulky water.

My guess about the five most used for this month are Heracross, Victini, Arcanine, Donphan, and Chansey.
 
Malvira said:
I could see Suicune being in the Top 20 for this month and eventually rising into the Top in the future, once people see that it is the best bulky water.

My guess about the five most used for this month are Kyurem, Victini, Vulpix, Abomasnow, and Chansey.
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Fixed. Those are literally the most popular UU Pokés from what I've heard thus far.
 
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