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Gen V Initial UU
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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Oh God, I hope not.
So you can't answer the question?
The primary goal of everybody here is to have a balanced metagame. Some people just seem to want to ban as much as they can, but that's not the goal we have. Our goal is to have a balanced metagame. If we don't get to ban anything, so be it, the metagame is balanced, and that is what's most important.
Ahhh, thanks!
Learn to stealth rocks please. they can be handled easily
Will Dream World get its own OU and UU tiers too?
Because Espeon Shouldn't be in ou
Well, when NU is established, people there could use your argument to say that a tier system based on usage alone should not be used in UU as well, being that it is detrimental to their tier.
But this just leads me to ask: Is there another possible way to make the tiers other than usage?
Preach.
Pokemon usage relates everything in a Pokemon - niche, typing, efficiency. Some Pokemon gain ZOMGWTF usage because the niche they perform is at its peek of need at the time being. For example, Scizor in 4th gen's niche was very valuable because it effectively countered dragons such as Latias and Salamence - 2 Pokemon who were top-tier threats. Since Scizor, with its 90BP Bullet Punches was able to put a stop to these top-tier threats, he gained enough usage and dominated the OU metagame. Although saying this does NOT mean that the Pokemon in UU or NU do not serve a certain niche. Some Pokemon have the ability but not the stats, or vice versa, and the niche of some Pokemon was just not as valuable as the niches that the other Pokemon serve. It could also be that they are completely outclassed - same typing, same niche, but different capabilities overall.
Banlists, however, are a different story. Pokemon who don't particularly get enough usage in OU, but whose niche is very hard to counter in the lower metagame, UU, it drops to BL, where it finds itself banned from UU. Same goes for the Uber tier.
OU = Over Used, as it Pokemon that get lots of play. OU Pokemon are popular (even if people are stupid enough to use SWAMPERT...gah...). The main point of UU is to be a tier where you see different Pokemon. There's no point in making such a tier if you're still going to see the same Scrafty, Virizion and Tornadus all the time.
How a pokemon would perform, either good or bad, depends entirely on what else is in that tier. Choosing tiers like this would be very biased.
If we based them on stat, you would think that legendaries and anything with obnoxiously high base stats would automatically be in the "top tier". However, from practice, we know that's not true. For example, by stats alone, Articuno and Moltres would be considered "good" but Stealth Rock cripples their ability way too much for them to be used effectively. Even if we were to combine fighting ability with it, it would be too subjective to accurately portray their ability. That's why we use stats: it's objective. People use good Pokemon so they're OU.
If a pokemon has the ability to perform, they are used, hence, they end up banned from lower teirs.
Useage based teirs are pretty much the most accurate type. They are based off of actual happenings in the metagame, and, you'd think that what is used more is better in general.
Pokemon that are good are used more often, it is that simple. Pokemon that are used to counter good pokemon, the pokemon that define metagames, are good, because they have the ability to fill a niche.
Teiring based on useage is better than teiring based on arbitary factors, that do not reflect actual events. OU was still not stable at the end of Gen 4, 'No Suspects' never came about. UU, however, did stabalise, with two periods of 'No Suspects'. OU's banlist is totally arbitary, Ubers is not based off of anything but opinions of the players, nomatter how informed they are. The primary banlist for OU is based off of actual trends in the metagame; and that works.
Base stats or some "objective" factor likke that is a horrible way to tier, it's a great way to predict and many pokes that actually have good stats are likely to go OU, but the other way is that Big stats doesn't gareantee succes, you have regiigas, archeops and slaking, all pokes that would easily be OU without their abilities, but with them they will probably end up NU this gen, then you have kyurem, an almost banned poke that now is UU and you see how he has great stas, he actually can destroy UU, but is outclassed by almost every OU dragon type, then you have a pokes like breloom ans smeargle, the first is the lowest Base stats total in OU and the latter was OU last gen, all because he could easily have many niches or their abilities make them great
Base Stat Totals are actually the only objective thing about a Pokémon's data. That's not to say I don't disagree with Roosh's theory. I disagree entirely. It bugs me to think that tiers are based soley on data collected from simulators, though. Of course, there's no plausible solution.
Now consider for a moment that Victini is capable of using a move other than its STABs. Like Brick Break, which OHKOs, Fusion Bolt, which also OHKOs, and U-turn, which leaves Houndoom near-death and ends the matchup before it even starts. You can call it a way to handle Victini if you want, but it's not a counter at all.
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