What aren't we writing about? (Pokemon unfit for OU Analyses)

If only you could transfer over the pinch berries, a Reversal set would be outstanding. Then there's the ever common weather and priority, I doubt that it will do that well. None the less, it's still great.

move 1: Reversal
move 2: Endure
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Blaze Kick
item: Liechi Berry
ability: Unburden
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

With this, Hitmonlee reaches a blistering Speed of 546 and a devastating Attack of 558. Reversal is the strongest stab you can use so it's an obvious option while Endure gets you to 1 HP in order to send your stats sky rocketing. Blaze Kick and Stone Edge are for coverage.

However, Unburden Hitmonlee and pinch berries remain unreleased. At the time being, no but later, there's a good possibility.
 
ParaChomp said:
If only you could transfer over the pinch berries, a Reversal set would be outstanding. Then there's the ever common weather and priority, I doubt that it will do that well. None the less, it's still great.

move 1: Reversal
move 2: Endure
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Blaze Kick
item: Liechi Berry
ability: Unburden
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

With this, Hitmonlee reaches a blistering Speed of 546 and a devastating Attack of 558. Reversal is the strongest stab you can use so it's an obvious option while Endure gets you to 1 HP in order to send your stats sky rocketing. Blaze Kick and Stone Edge are for coverage.

However, Unburden Hitmonlee and pinch berries remain unreleased. At the time being, no but later, there's a good possibility.
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i would think priority and sandstorm ruin that set. but an unburden sweep set would make more sense of

move 1: fake out
move 2: hjk
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Blaze Kick /sucker punch
item: normal jem
ability: Unburden
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

come in, fake out get speed boost, proceed to sweep opponent team if possible. this will actually work in uu, highly doubt it in ou because exca is still faster than max speed hitmonlee.

but anyway since none of this is out i vote we stop talking about hitmonlee


edit: sorry i missed you said that... i skim stuff too much but oh well
 
premboy95 said:
i would think priority and sandstorm ruin that set. but an unburden sweep set would make more sense of
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Don't you read what I posted? You could the same set I posted above except with the 30 HP IVs (so you can reach a quarter of you health no problem) and Hi Jump Kick and Substitute over Reversal and Endure.

premboy95 said:
but anyway since none of this is out i vote we stop talking about hitmonlee
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Yes let's.
 
I run a max hp/max def balloon arbok on my offensive sandstorm team to deal with opposing conkeldurr and doryzuu. But I think half of the reason i use it is because it's cool, and the other half is because i never see anyone else using it.
 
Hey now, Parachomp, try to be a bit more civil. I'm pretty sure that I've "spoken to you" about your C&C posting habits, and this thread is the main reason.

Also no to Hitmonlee or Arbok. Just no.
 
I noticed that Sawk is on the "Ignored" list, and even though an argument has been made for and against him, I would like to give my own viewpoint. Yes, Throh is much bulkier and does well against OU, but I have recently been trying out a Choice Scarf Sawk set, and I have found it quite effective against OU. He has a usable Speed stat, which goes great with Choice Scarf, and his base 125 Attack stat simply cannot be ignored. Plus, he has some powerful moves at his disposal, like Stone Edge, Earthquake, and Close Combat, making him even deadlier. What I feel sets him apart from the rest, however, is Sturdy. No matter how frail he is, the possibility of surviving an otherwise-deadly attack is an excellent quality in any sweeper, and in conjuction with Sawk's offensive potential, he's a force to be reckoned with.
I'll admit, Sawk does have some flaws. The prevalence of Sandstorm (and also Hail) sometimes mean that Sturdy is pretty much negated, limiting his usefulness. Also, he's somewhat predictable due to his small number of usable options, while his Speed stat means that some Pokemon still outspeed him, even if Sawk has a Choice Scarf. Furthermore, Chandelure and Jellicent are both common in OU and can switch in pretty easily, although Chandelure has to watch out for Stone Edge and Earthquake. Overall, although Sawk has his weaknesses, I believe that he deserves an OU analysis for his potential as a devastating sweeper.
 
Sorry, I'm not trying to be pushy... But I've been debating the viability of Exeggutor in OU since this post and I've made some points afterwards in other posts. It hasn't faced much opposition here, so could it be considered for an OU Analysis? Thanks!
 
Seven Deadly Sins said:
Hey now, Parachomp, try to be a bit more civil. I'm pretty sure that I've "spoken to you" about your C&C posting habits, and this thread is the main reason.

Also no to Hitmonlee or Arbok. Just no.
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Sorry, I'll try to keep dumb little agreements to a minimum...darn it. Also, we'll see about Hitmonlee in OU once it's Dream World ability and Liechi Berry get released.

As for Swak and Arbok, there's too much that destroys them. Seven Deadly Sins, help me think of something to argue to get an OU and won't get rejected.
 
Can we also have words on Crobat? It would actually be nice if we didn't lose our hair over Crobat (which is still in Quality Control).

Also, somebody on #QC confirmed that the reason why Froslass is getting an OU analysis is because it's a generally good support Pokemon in hail. Not much to expand on that.
 
I think Eviolite Machoke would be cool with a Rest Talk set. DynamicPunch's low PP won't matter as it can be used in sleep talk, and it's pretty bulky, from what I've heard about Streetmons :p
 
Mooo said:
I think Eviolite Machoke would be cool with a Rest Talk set. DynamicPunch's low PP won't matter as it can be used in sleep talk, and it's pretty bulky, from what I've heard about Streetmons :p
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Machoke's defences aren't that stellar and RestTalk isn't that viable anymore. You should be using Guts in that situation.
 
Seven Deadly Sins said:
Hey now, Parachomp, try to be a bit more civil. I'm pretty sure that I've "spoken to you" about your C&C posting habits, and this thread is the main reason.

Also no to Hitmonlee or Arbok. Just no.
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I'm afraid that I'm going to have to be a bit out of line with this, but:

I have had great success with Hitmonlee's Unburden. While I'm not using the Leichi set, I'm using:

Hitmonlee (M) @ Normal Jewel
Trait: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Blaze Kick

I have had amazingly great success with this set (occasionally sweeping 3~4 Pokemon at once), and I honestly believe that Lee deserves a second chance at OU with this and the Leichi set.

I want you to know that the only reason I'm still fighting about this is because I feel strongly about Hitmonlee becoming useful outside of UU. Lee has been a Bro since Gen1 and I'm hoping that Gen5 has more in store for him with the new Unburden Ability.

This will be the only time in the foreseeable future that I will be speaking out of turn, and I apologize for this, but like I said, I really do believe that Hitmonlee has found a good set for OU.
 
Aboithagameboi said:
I'm afraid that I'm going to have to be a bit out of line with this, but:

I have had great success with Hitmonlee's Unburden. While I'm not using the Leichi set, I'm using:

Hitmonlee (M) @ Normal Jewel
Trait: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Blaze Kick

I have had amazingly great success with this set (occasionally sweeping 3~4 Pokemon at once), and I honestly believe that Lee deserves a second chance at OU with this and the Leichi set.

I want you to know that the only reason I'm still fighting about this is because I feel strongly about Hitmonlee becoming useful outside of UU. Lee has been a Bro since Gen1 and I'm hoping that Gen5 has more in store for him with the new Unburden Ability.

This will be the only time in the foreseeable future that I will be speaking out of turn, and I apologize for this, but like I said, I really do believe that Hitmonlee has found a good set for OU.
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Unfortunately, Dream World Tyrogue or Hitmonlee is not released, therefore making Unburden Hitmonlee illegal. Pinch berries are also not available, so we can't really get a saying in Leichi Berry.
 
AccidentalGreed said:
Unfortunately, Dream World Tyrogue or Hitmonlee is not released, therefore making Unburden Hitmonlee illegal. Pinch berries are also not available, so we can't really get a saying in Leichi Berry.
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Ah. Thanks for that. I remembered it was illegal after you said so, and I must have let passion cloud my judgement. However, once it becomes legal (if it does), I wish for someone to look into this set.
 
I think that Bayleef Deserves an OU analysis.

While previous generations have clearly marked Meganium superior to Bayleef, the new Eviolite may just change that. With this new item, Bayleef can outclass many common stallers, and take down entire teams with its assortment of hazards and recoveries.

Set Name: LeechDrain
Bayleef @ Eviolite
Trait: Overgrow/Leaf Guard
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Ancient Power/Sunny Day
- Leech Seed
- Ingrain/Aromatherapy

Clearly, Bayleef can make a wonderful staller with use of moves like Giga Drain and Leech Seed. With Sunny Day, sandstorm teams can be taken down easily, while Ancient Power can up Bayleef's stats, and provide as a good offense.

This is mostly why I feel Bayleef to be relatively superior in Gen V. If you want, you can test-drive the set on PO. I think you'll be happy with the results.

(It's actually the best poke on my PO party.)
 
Meganium wasn't OU or even BL last gen and it certainly isn't this gen. Sure, Bayleef may have better defenses with Eviolite, but it's still outclassed by Ferrothorn in terms of Leech Seed, Tangrowth in Offense, Ninetales for Sunny Day and Smeargle for Ingrain.

Weren't you the guy who tried to make a Bayleef analysis but got it locked and moved?

I'll also comment on Machoke. Yeah, its defences are better than Machamp after Eviolite, but why use that when Throh, which is the bulkiest fighting type ever, and Golurk, which also has DynamicPunch No Guard (has that even been released yet?), exist?

Not every Pokemon with Eviolite is super mega fantastic. It may be a boon to NFEs, but not every NFE is viable in OU play.
 
Mind Controller said:
Meganium wasn't OU or even BL last gen and it certainly isn't this gen. Sure, Bayleef may have better defenses with Eviolite, but it's still outclassed by Ferrothorn in terms of Leech Seed, Tangrowth in Offense, Ninetales for Sunny Day and Smeargle for Ingrain.

Weren't you the guy who tried to make a Bayleef analysis but got it locked and moved?
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Yes, I am. Thank you for taking note of that. I'm relatively new to Smogon, and I just wanted to get word out of how well this set can be run.

Anyways, if you ask me, Ferrothorn does not outclass Bayleef at all. With a 4x weakness to fire, Ferrothorn goes down far too easily. The thing's also weak to Close Combat, making it harder to stay in on. The thing also has lower HP, and while it clearly has more defenses type-wise, the types it is weak against are not an uncommon sight, in comparison to Bayleef whom can survive a fire attack pretty well, and begin spamming Giga-Drain.
To add to all of that, Ferrothorn lacks solid recovery outside of rest. A simple switch-in can take care of Ferrothorn's Leech seeds, and it has no access to Giga Drain. If someone can switch into a poke with Hidden-Power-Fire, it can OHKO Ferrothorn fast.

Tangrowth may be better for Offense, but this clearly isn't the point of running a Bayleef, and Tangrowth cannot take a good SAtk to the face, even with such good HP.

Sunny day isn't the only reason for running this guy, even if Ninetales does outclass him for that purpose.

And Smeargle has such poor defenses that an Ingrain Smeargle really doesn't get much done. Sure, the foe can't switch it out, but that's it. The thing has such poor defences that it really can't do much in terms of stalling.


Overall, there are pokes that can outclass Bayleef, but they're segmented pretty badly, and only Eviolite Bayleef can really run LeechSeed/Ingrain/GigaDrain/AncientPower successfully. Also, these other pokes are far too segmented, and running them on a team takes up (an) extra party slot(s) that could be used for something far better.
 
I'd rather run Shaymin in that slot if I wanted a Grass-type. Ancientpower isn't that good anyway, and Shaymin gets Earth Power and Natural Cure. Don't forget that Ingrain makes you unable to switch out, so any Pokemon that can hit really hard (Fire-types) or just stall you and set up (Ferrothorn) makes Bayleef just not worth it.
 
Diana said:
I'd rather run Shaymin in that slot if I wanted a Grass-type. Ancientpower isn't that good anyway, and Shaymin gets Earth Power and Natural Cure. Don't forget that Ingrain makes you unable to switch out, so any Pokemon that can hit really hard (Fire-types) or just stall you and set up (Ferrothorn) makes Bayleef just not worth it.
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While Ferrothorn wouldn't have much trouble taking down Bayleef by setting-up, Fire-Types still can't do much to this thing. AncientPower can 2HKO(Save for that evil monster, Heatran) most of them, and Fire-type moves still don't do much when faced with approx-120 base defenses.

It would have trouble with Victini thanks to STAB-Supereffective V-Create, however people rarely run Victini due to Stealth Rock weaknesses. It is seen as inferior to Mew, just because of its typing.
 
Infernape's Fire Blast with 64 Special Attack EV's does 85.5% - 101.5% to your Bayleef, and Chandelure's will always KO. They both outspeed you too. Also Victini's getting used a lot more now because of V-Create, it'll probably reach OU soon.

I'm sorry, Bayleef would be cool and all but it's just not good.

Edit: That's with Life Orb, it falls slightly short of a KO without it but hits hard enough so that Bayleef can't stall it out.
 
We have to consider the fact that Ferrothorn has so many useful resistances, too. Its weaknesses can be so easily played around with the most common, usable OU Pokemon as well. I have yet to be convinced about Bayleef, who also has competition with Celebi.
 
Diana said:
Infernape's Fire Blast with 64 Special Attack EV's does 85.5% - 101.5% to your Bayleef, and Chandelure's will always KO. They both outspeed you too. Also Victini's getting used a lot more now because of V-Create, it'll probably reach OU soon.

I'm sorry, Bayleef would be cool and all but it's just not good.
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Hmm... I guess Bayleef does have a good lot of checks and counters.

It is still not to be overlooked when considering a grass-type staller, but it may not be the right fit for OU.

Congratulations, you've successfully convinced me that I shouldn't rely on Bayleef. However, I will definitely not overlook him for WiFi OU. He does have some good potential there.

Thank you for your feedback, now enjoy your spaghetti.

AccidentalGreed said:
We have to consider the fact that Ferrothorn has so many useful resistances, too. Its weaknesses can be so easily played around with the most common, usable OU Pokemon as well. I have yet to be convinced about Bayleef, who also has competition with Celebi.
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While I do now feel that Bayleef does not quite belong in OU, I will say that competition with Celebi is a big thing. Celebi doesn't have as incredible defenses, and its typing just opens up more weaknesses. Yet, it makes up for that with HP, so if you ask me they're close to even terms, with Celebi in the lead a bit.

However, I wouldn't even consider running Ferrothorn as a staller in a million years, namely because of its 4x weakness to common fire. I used to run Ferro, but I switched to Bayleef due to Ferrothorn's lack of stable recovery.
 
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