In-Game Tier List Discussion

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If you read two posts later you would have seen that people shouted that down for the purposes that they were posting their team to give an opinion.

Next time, try not to be an ignorant douche.

Erp, @Pally Hero Rush 4 posts ago
 
Haha, i read that and was like "Uh..."

Let me see if I understand the tiers here:

High-tier is basically "These guys are decent and you get them early."
Mid-tier is basically "These guys are decent but you get them a little later."
Low-tier is basically "these guys either suck or you get them too late."

Jist?
 
Skorpius47 said:
Let me see if I understand the tiers here:

High-tier is basically "These guys are decent and you get them early."
Mid-tier is basically "These guys are decent but you get them a little later."
Low-tier is basically "these guys either suck or you get them too late."

Jist?
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Not strictly true, but that's not a terrible way of looking at it.

I look at the tiers as a measure of how much time/effort a Pokemon saves you over an entire run. If it makes the entire game faster and easier without causing you any hassle, then it is High. If it helps but isn't amazing or is slightly troublesome to obtain (due to rarity, being slightly slow to become good, not showing up until late, etc.), it is Mid. If it is more trouble than it is worth to catch and/or train it, then it is Low.

Also keep in mind that the original post is quite outdated compared to what many more recent posters think. For example, I don't think anybody is defending Tympole for High anymore, but many people think Panpour is. The general opinion also seems to be that there really needs to be 1-2 more tiers implemented as well (I favor Upper Mid and Lower Mid to go with regular Mid, but some people are favoring a Bottom tier below Low).

Two opinions for what a more updated tier list would look like can be found here and here.
 
spweasel said:
Two opinions for what a more updated tier list would look like can be found here and here.
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Rad! Thank-you very much.

Perhaps I'll make my own tier list to accompany this thread for the different things I look for, such as overall team synergy, E4 performance, post-E4 performance, HM usage, and competitive viability. I can see that sort of thing is encourage to offer in-game players alternative views and opinons based on many different playstyles.

I suppose the reason why I'm so interested in a tiering system is because I greatly enjoy in-game runs myself, and this has been the first game since FireRed/LeafGreen that I've enjoyed replaying for the sake of team diversity between runs. One thing I do that I've rarely seen repeated by others is that I try to form a competitively viable team through one run so that my final team, after the credits roll, is worth using in a competitive environment after removing in-game tweaks (i.e. removing HM's).
 
I suppose the reason why I'm so interested in a tiering system is because I greatly enjoy in-game runs myself, and this has been the first game since FireRed/LeafGreen that I've enjoyed replaying for the sake of team diversity between runs. One thing I do that I've rarely seen repeated by others is that I try to form a competitively viable team through one run so that my final team, after the credits roll, is worth using in a competitive environment after removing in-game tweaks (i.e. removing HM's).
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Same here that goes exactly the same for me in DP and BW although it kinda gets a bit dull halfway through EV training and having to get to the other half of the map without using fly...
 
also regarding in-game pokes do any of you guys plan out a team of your favourite pokes or just get the poke as you find them (Hint hint: judging on looks)
 
I'm impressed with Tympole. The minute I got him he was OHKO'ing stuff with neutral attacks and with an Eviolite (while Palpitoad) he could take any hit.
The sandstorms don't hit him and mine has Swift Swim, so he is probably the best in-game weather abuser.
Definately High tier.

I also decided to use Gothita in Black and it's fairly decent. It isn't OHKO'ing stuff but it can really mess with the opponents with Fake Tears and Thunder Wave. Personally I think it should go in Upper Mid or Mid. I havn't heard many people comment on Gothitelle, if any at all.
 
The problems with Gothitelle are its average offenses without Fake Tears/CM, lacklustre coverage, middling speed, and it doesn't perform particularly well against any gyms/E4, except Marshal, and even then, it won't take Stone Edges THAT well. I think it's fine in Low.
 
Not gonna look back through 91 pages to see if this has been said, but Musharna tanks shit. Petitioning for it to move up to mid tier (would be high if not for a terribad movepool).
 
So if I'm understanding this correctly, a pokemon like Axew is mid tier because he is obtained slightly over half way though the game and is only ok untill it evovles. Am I getting this right? Just asking because Axew became the MVP of my black run.
 
Mr_br_kill said:
So if I'm understanding this correctly, a pokemon like Axew is mid tier because he is obtained slightly over half way though the game and is only ok untill it evovles. Am I getting this right? Just asking because Axew became the MVP of my black run.
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Yeah, that'd be the explanation behind his mid-tiering. He'd be higher if he was obtained earlier.
 
Walrein said:
Not gonna look back through 91 pages to see if this has been said, but Musharna tanks shit. Petitioning for it to move up to mid tier (would be high if not for a terribad movepool).
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Except if you want it to tank shit you have to sack the good moves he get until a lot later in the game.

So basically you are still stuck with Psybeam all the way to the E4. Not really plausible IMO.
 
Walrein said:
Not gonna look back through 91 pages to see if this has been said, but Musharna tanks shit. Petitioning for it to move up to mid tier (would be high if not for a terribad movepool).
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Sigh. Not this again. Munna sucks. If you want Musharna not to suck, you need to wait until extremely late to evolve it. Even after all that, you're stuck with one of the worst STAB types in-game (what with all the Dark-types running around), non-existent coverage options (you are stuck with Psybeam alone until Charge Beam), and crappy Speed . Simply being a decent wall is insufficient to redeem the pink blob.

Edit: Kinda ninja'd

Mr_br_kill said:
So if I'm understanding this correctly, a pokemon like Axew is mid tier because he is obtained slightly over half way though the game and is only ok untill it evovles. Am I getting this right? Just asking because Axew became the MVP of my black run.
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There's also the fact that you need to go fairly far out of the way for it, since the cave is completely optional and a significant backtrack. He's also more than "slightly over half way through the game" since you're already past the point at which the game is downhill until the Elite 4.
 
I'm still of the opinion that Joltic is not high teir, and if it is, Klink should be...

Let's look at Joltic:

Obtained past mid-game: Chargestone Cave, after 5 badges

Only good against 1 Gym; the one immediatly afterwards.

It is good against two members of the E4, however, below average against one [Shuntal], and useless against one [Renbu has Stone Edge/Rock Slide everywhere]

Only parts it can help with in the finale are Hydregion, Bisharp, and Zoroark
all of which it has at outspeed and OHKO.

Gets very little outside of Electric and Bug attacks, aside from the obvious Normal.

Now let's look at Klink:

Obtained at the same point as Joltic [0-0]

Good against all remaining gyms [1-0 to Klink]

Good against 3 members of the E4, useless against one [2-0 to Klink]

Gets very little besides Electric, Steel and Normal attacks [2-0]

Can defeat N's Archeops, Carracosta, and hold it's own against N's KlinkKlang. It can beat Geechisu's Cofagirus with ease, and can set up on it. It also beats Bisharp [Spam Electric at it] [3-0]

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Tl;dr:

Klink is better against the bosses than Joltic
Klink has an equally restrictive movepool
Klink is gained at the same time as Joltic

... so why is Joltic higher-teir, if Klink outperforms it? Klink probobly gets bonus points for being one of two Steels avaliable before Badge 7 as well...
 
spweasel said:
There's also the fact that you need to go fairly far out of the way for it, since the cave is completely optional and a significant backtrack. He's also more than "slightly over half way through the game" since you're already past the point at which the game is downhill until the Elite 4.
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That's completely irrelevant since Axew does terribly at Icirrus and is going to get owned without being overlevelled at Opelucid. The faster way is to just catch a Fraxure at Victory Road. It's A LOT faster and its much more efficient to use Haxorus this way.
 
TM13IceBeam said:
That's completely irrelevant
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If we were considering the VR Faxure alone, I'd probably move Axew down a tier. He's rare, he's at the very, very end of the game, and he needs dedicated grinding to catch him up enough to be relevant. He's decent enough, but it's not like he's good enough against the final battles to justify all the hassle.

While the Axew from Mistralton Cave might be an extra trip out of the way, it's twice as common and can pick up both random encounter and Exp Share experience, meaning it's fairly likely to outlevel that Fraxure by the time you could find one.
 
Raikaria said:
Now let's look at Klink:

Obtained at the same point as Joltic [0-0]

Good against all remaining gyms [1-0 to Klink]

Good against 3 members of the E4, useless against one [2-0 to Klink] Useless against two is more like it. Shauntel has Golurk and Chandelure which demolish the thing

Gets very little besides Electric, Steel and Normal attacks [2-0] Which is why it is so low

Can defeat N's Archeops, Carracosta, and hold it's own against N's KlinkKlang. It can beat Geechisu's Cofagirus with ease, and can set up on it. It also beats Bisharp [Spam Electric at it] [3-0]

----

Tl;dr:

Klink is better against the bosses than Joltic
Klink has an equally restrictive movepool
Klink is gained at the same time as Joltic

... so why is Joltic higher-teir, if Klink outperforms it? Klink probobly gets bonus points for being one of two Steels avaliable before Badge 7 as well...
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Klink is lower because of it's god awful movepool. plus Joltik has compoundeyes and 91% thunder is epic and takes out crap like crazy. And Steel types have horrible coverage unless they are dual typed like Excadril.
 
Klink starts out with Gear Grind, which is effectivly a Base 100 STAB.

He also gets Electric-type attacks, which have good coverage with Steel.

He can go special with Flash Cannon and Charge Beam

He can use Autonomise to increase his speed, and post-game, gets Gear Shift.

He's also far bulkier than Joltic.

Golurk and Chandelure beat him, OK, but he beats Jellicent and Cofigarus [And can beat Chandelure and Golurk if he sets up Charge Beams on Cofigarus, which he can easily do]

Steel/Electric dosen't need much coverage... although the latter isn't STAB.
 
Raikaria said:
Klink starts out with Gear Grind, which is effectivly a Base 100 STAB.

He also gets Electric-type attacks, which have good coverage with Steel.

He can go special with Flash Cannon and Charge Beam

He can use Autonomise to increase his speed, and post-game, gets Gear Shift.

He's also far bulkier than Joltic.

Golurk and Chandelure beat him, OK, but he beats Jellicent and Cofigarus [And can beat Chandelure and Golurk if he sets up Charge Beams on Cofigarus, which he can easily do]

Steel/Electric dosen't need much coverage... although the latter isn't STAB.
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Relying on a multi hit move to hit 5 times is too risky. Joltik is higher because it has a good ability and can murder things with thunder. Klink also gets rock smash for the dark E4 member though but Joltik murders him with Signal beam/bug buzz. Joltik just has better moves.
 
Gear Grind is the Steel equivalent of Bonemerang, not Fury Attack, rocky.

Also, Klink's special attack is god-awful, so you're not dealing much damage if you do go special.
 
A fast, accurate STAB Thunder off of decent Special Attack is simply better for in-game purposes than anything Klink can do. Also remember that Klink evolves into its slow, weak middle stage two levels later than Joltik evolves into its nice final form. You're not getting a Klinklang until level 49.
 
Sawk and Throh aren't used in the game until the Elite 4, I think. They aren't even that good since my swobat could beat them, and my swobat was like 5 levels behind them.
 
The problem is that Swoobat cannot OHKO Sawk thanks to Sturdy, while it can KO back with Stone Edge. I'm pretty sure Throh won't be OHKO'd either thanks to the bulk and Swoobat's weak Special Attack, and it also has Stone Edge (and Payback).
 
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