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In-Game Tier List Discussion
- Thread starter Colonel M
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Um what. It's right east of Nimbasa. ._.
Still waiting for this thing to be updated away from alphabetical order... Anytime soon, guys? >_>
Sigh. This is why I cringed when this thread was brought back to life. Please, please stop making BS comments about stuff if you don't have at least something that looks like proof to back it up.
Durant is incredibly specially frail, won't be OHKOing the entire E4 unless overleveled (even ignoring Hustle's accuracy drop), and he can't take a ton of unresisted physical attacks, either. As I said, I needed to grind him up to 45 before he didn't just curl up and die against every single E4 member.
As for Venipede, my gut says he's better than low, but certainly not upper mid material. I'll admit that I'm basing this on theory more than experience, though, since I never really bothered with it. 3 levels until Poison Tail might not be fun, but it's not unforgivable. 90 Attack with 112 Speed is actually reasonably decent given Megahorn's strength, though he's admittedly lacking in coverage options (especially before evolving). Probably his most notable roll during the Elite 4, however, is Baton Passing Agilities to Pokemon who can then sweep unimpeded, such as Scrafty.
He's certainly not as good as Sewaddle, but I'm seriously hesitant to call him Munna-bad as well. Low Lower-Mid.
@Breludiculo: You really can get there pre-Elite 4. The bridge it's talking about is the Eastern exit of the area, while Lostlorn's the North.
Nice try, but no. You go East of Nimbasa City and then north among the trees. The entrance is there. Maybe you should try playing the game?
What you quoted is talking about the entrance to Marvelous Bridge, not Lostlorn Forest or Route 16.
I'm not gonna bother responding to two middleschoolers that have no life, so they spend their entire time in threads like these provoking and disagreeing just to disagree, despite having no clue what the hell they're talking about. You haven't even used most of the pokes you're arguing for or against, and it's members like yourselves that make others simply not want to post here, as any argument is going to be ridiculed unless you entirely agree with it. Fucking trolls.
breh
強いだね
@Vladimir
note how they actually argue with facts while you insult them. it's difficult to call them trolls. you, on the other hand...
anyway, venipede does not seem like a low poke, but it doesn't seem amazing either. I haven't tried it but assume it's not low based on the fact that it can learn a base 120 STAB move.
I wonder if you could ev train durant with a macho brace in dragonspiral tower... it would give OK experience and give attack simultaneously.
note how they actually argue with facts while you insult them. it's difficult to call them trolls. you, on the other hand...
anyway, venipede does not seem like a low poke, but it doesn't seem amazing either. I haven't tried it but assume it's not low based on the fact that it can learn a base 120 STAB move.
I wonder if you could ev train durant with a macho brace in dragonspiral tower... it would give OK experience and give attack simultaneously.
Venipede seems like a mid Pokemon to me: Megahorn is incredible but it seems lackluster early.
Anyway I wanted this to get back active so I could post on some of the other Pokemon from just a bit ago. Some surprised me and some didn't.
Snivy was pretty weak really... It wasn't doing much even when it got Leaf Blade and Coil. It was completely about having no movepool at all, and unlike Lilligant it can't even use Sleep Powder. Stats alone keep it at lower-mid but it's the worst starter by far.
Panpour surprised me for not being that bad. It had a slow time between badges 1 and 3 but once it got Scald and evolved it was actually really good. Acrobatics is a good coverage move later on too. I'd actually go upper-mid on that.
Munna was bad. Really bad. Doesn't learn Psychic for about forever, and when it evolves it's still so slow that the many Dark-type moves out there can just rip it apart, and it comes on more than just Dark-types. Low for sure.
Pidove was better than Munna, and I'm not sure how. It dragged for a while but when it got Return it actually hit pretty hard, and Fly isn't bad ingame. Lower-mid maybe?
Sawk is high, I don't think that Attack and Speed with Sturdy even needs explanation. Especially not with coverage moves.
Dwebble dragged until evolving and getting Shell Smash, where it became a serious force. X-Scissor, Rock Slide, and Dig actually combine really nicely. I'd give it upper-mid but its time as Dwebble keep me from putting it high like some have suggested.
Anyway I wanted this to get back active so I could post on some of the other Pokemon from just a bit ago. Some surprised me and some didn't.
Snivy was pretty weak really... It wasn't doing much even when it got Leaf Blade and Coil. It was completely about having no movepool at all, and unlike Lilligant it can't even use Sleep Powder. Stats alone keep it at lower-mid but it's the worst starter by far.
Panpour surprised me for not being that bad. It had a slow time between badges 1 and 3 but once it got Scald and evolved it was actually really good. Acrobatics is a good coverage move later on too. I'd actually go upper-mid on that.
Munna was bad. Really bad. Doesn't learn Psychic for about forever, and when it evolves it's still so slow that the many Dark-type moves out there can just rip it apart, and it comes on more than just Dark-types. Low for sure.
Pidove was better than Munna, and I'm not sure how. It dragged for a while but when it got Return it actually hit pretty hard, and Fly isn't bad ingame. Lower-mid maybe?
Sawk is high, I don't think that Attack and Speed with Sturdy even needs explanation. Especially not with coverage moves.
Dwebble dragged until evolving and getting Shell Smash, where it became a serious force. X-Scissor, Rock Slide, and Dig actually combine really nicely. I'd give it upper-mid but its time as Dwebble keep me from putting it high like some have suggested.
Ahahahahaha. How do you know that we haven't even use most of the pokes that we are arguing for/against? I used Venipede ingame, I can safely swear that he was almost useless, he only helped when he conveniently learned Toxic against Caitlin(yeah, underlevelled challenge ftw) and managed to poison-stall Gothitelle. I used Haxorus twice and I can attest to its sheer awesomeness, I used Sewaddle as well and it was a beast, outside of fire and flying opponents.
Your arguments make absolutely no sense, I wonder if you have even played the game yourself. Even resisted attacks like Gothitelle's Psychic will dent Durant and his shit 58/48 special bulk. Outside of Grimsley(I don't remember the exact moveset) every other physical attacker hits him for neutral(Marshal, Shauntal's Golurk).
Durant's best niche is providing a somewhat ok check to Hydreigon. Done.
TBH, I dunno if you are referring to yourself or not, but IMO that description fits you extremely well.
when i used venipede he was okay. and thats it not amazing but not as bad as say munna or snivy. he pulled his weight for the most part just nothing super amazing. he is perfect in mid/lower mid i think.
also vladimir are you talking about yourself?
also vladimir are you talking about yourself?
Okay guys, I'm going to move it away from the sniping at each other for now.
I literally just finished the game last night, so I thought I should share my thoughts on the subject. When I went through, I used a core of Samurott, Archeops, Galvantula and Daramantian. Concurring with what everyone is saying, ARCHEOPS IS AN ABSOLUTE BEAST! Even things that may resist Acrobatics are KOed most of the time.
Daramantian is yet another legend in terms of the game. I was running pretty much solo with Oshawott/Dewott until Burgh's gym, and it was absolutely perfect timing to get this fire type. Putting up with Hustle-Fire Fang was even worth it for a OHKO on Leavanny. Later on, Flare Blitz, Hammer Arm, Rock Slide and Bulldoze (eventually EQ) served as the second half of my physical attacking pair.
Samurott ended up as a mixed sweeper, due to the nature being neither beneficial or hindering to either stat. Megahorn, Scald (later Hydro Pump), HP Ice (Blizzard sometimes, I switched between the two) and, funnily enough, Retaliate. Revenge killer or just a heavy hitter, he was definitely the best starter (I started with Snivy once and Tepig another time, before finally completing it the 3rd time with Oshawott).
And finally Galvantula. Pretty much what everybody is saying. Compundeyes @ Thunder, Bug Buzz, Energy Ball and Volt Switch. Hitting hard and hitting fast. Wasn't really needed though, Archeops would really just smash through everybody by himself ;)
So there you have it. Now I know that all the pokemon I used are already in the top tier, and I'd just like to confirm that decision. Next time, on White, I'm going to use some harder pokemon.
Mamoswine out.
I literally just finished the game last night, so I thought I should share my thoughts on the subject. When I went through, I used a core of Samurott, Archeops, Galvantula and Daramantian. Concurring with what everyone is saying, ARCHEOPS IS AN ABSOLUTE BEAST! Even things that may resist Acrobatics are KOed most of the time.
Daramantian is yet another legend in terms of the game. I was running pretty much solo with Oshawott/Dewott until Burgh's gym, and it was absolutely perfect timing to get this fire type. Putting up with Hustle-Fire Fang was even worth it for a OHKO on Leavanny. Later on, Flare Blitz, Hammer Arm, Rock Slide and Bulldoze (eventually EQ) served as the second half of my physical attacking pair.
Samurott ended up as a mixed sweeper, due to the nature being neither beneficial or hindering to either stat. Megahorn, Scald (later Hydro Pump), HP Ice (Blizzard sometimes, I switched between the two) and, funnily enough, Retaliate. Revenge killer or just a heavy hitter, he was definitely the best starter (I started with Snivy once and Tepig another time, before finally completing it the 3rd time with Oshawott).
And finally Galvantula. Pretty much what everybody is saying. Compundeyes @ Thunder, Bug Buzz, Energy Ball and Volt Switch. Hitting hard and hitting fast. Wasn't really needed though, Archeops would really just smash through everybody by himself ;)
So there you have it. Now I know that all the pokemon I used are already in the top tier, and I'd just like to confirm that decision. Next time, on White, I'm going to use some harder pokemon.
Mamoswine out.
Alright, away from the troll-bashing, just would like to do a quick analysis of some pokes that I did bother to use:
Patrat: Meh. The movepool is awesome but he lacks the stats to back it up. Not a solid team member, imo should get out by Elesa.
Solosis: Hits hard, like, really hard... but suffers from Electivire syndrome, minus the type coverage. It leaves a lot of things at red, for some reason, so it was annoying to train.
Excadrill: Ok, we have discussed this guy before, but I noticed that for White players he has a very cool niche: he can wall Zekrom's ass while you spam the ball throwing. Really useful if you didn't bring Quick/Ultra/Dusk Balls for some reason, or want Zekrom in a Poke Ball. The same can be said of Lampent for Cobalion and Virizion, and Golurk for Terrakion.
Patrat: Meh. The movepool is awesome but he lacks the stats to back it up. Not a solid team member, imo should get out by Elesa.
Solosis: Hits hard, like, really hard... but suffers from Electivire syndrome, minus the type coverage. It leaves a lot of things at red, for some reason, so it was annoying to train.
Excadrill: Ok, we have discussed this guy before, but I noticed that for White players he has a very cool niche: he can wall Zekrom's ass while you spam the ball throwing. Really useful if you didn't bring Quick/Ultra/Dusk Balls for some reason, or want Zekrom in a Poke Ball. The same can be said of Lampent for Cobalion and Virizion, and Golurk for Terrakion.
Forgetting Venipede, i still want my favorite grass type, Sewaddle for high. That thing is a sheer brute.
It has a freaking 103 base attack by Nimbasa city, and the only Poke i can think of with higher attack than that is Sawk.
It has a freaking 103 base attack by Nimbasa city, and the only Poke i can think of with higher attack than that is Sawk.
Just going to through some two cents on Scolipede:
I caught a Venipede in Pinwheel forest on my Black playthrough and it has become an asset. I use Carracosta and Sawsbuck, so the Fighting resistance is greatly appreciated. On paper, he does have a shallow movepool pre-E4 but he learns a few fun and supportive moves like Screech and Bulldoze to pull his weight around with support. There's also been a few times where his physical bulk took a good Flying or Rock attack and Swarm kicked in for a nasty Bug Bite, Steamroller, or X-Scissor.
I think he works very well when he needs to. It all depends on the team, really.
I ran with Samurott, Galvantula, Darmanitan, Golurk, Braviary, Conkledurr
Samurott is an excellent revenge killer. His bulk saved me from a lot of troules and Retaliate did a number on 3/4 of the 2nd Round E4. I use Surf / Aqua Jet / Revenge or Retaliate / X-Scissor or Megahorn. Surf is only there for HM usage and I plan on changing that to Scald when I get a chance. With the lack of Waters in Unova, Oshawatt being above the other two makes a lot of sense.
Darmanitan is becoming one of my favorite Fire-types. The sheer power of his Fire Punch makes my jaw drop every time it nearly OHKOs something that is 10+ levels higher. Flare Blitz is good for raw, unadulterated destruction, but I guess it comes down to personal choice. And it's great that Darmanitan gets so many options in that regard. He earns his position.
Galvantula is pretty much my favorite Pokemon, coming in a close second behind Nidoking. It's very simple, and very elegant, but I wish he had a bit more diversity in his movesets. But Thunder/Bug Buzz/Energy Ball is good enough, with one slot left open for preference. Very good, very very good.
Golurk is hilarious and I've had a lot of success for him so I'd like to vote Golett be moved up one tier. Ghost/Ground is a good typing late-game, resisting Fighting and Rock while also having enough Bulk to take on a few hits from other types. He can support your team with Will-o-Wisp and/or Bulldoze. For the first-round E4 and post-E4 game, Golurk works very well as an on-hand Flyer since it takes advantage of the move in battle (switching into Fighters and stalling BRN status).
Conkledurr, as everyone knows, is a beast and has proven his worth time and time again. Strength and bulk to take on even neutral hits. There isn't anything I can say that hasn't been said.
Braviary has been worth the work so I'd like to vote Rufflet be moved up one tier. Normal/Flying isn't a bad typing, with immunities to two types. If your team suffers from Ghost and/or Ground weaknesses, I can't think of any other Pokemon to use if you have the White Version. Maybe it's the team I had, since Braviary had a lot of synergy with my guys, but I found him to work out very well as a lead. Bulked Up Crush Claws, Rock Smashes, and Brave Birds feel viable enough to be considerd better than "low tier". Maybe I'm wrong.
I feel that the performance of the Pokemon in the game, no matter at what stage you may be, is what is important. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the tier system here, so please correct me with these votes if necessary.
I caught a Venipede in Pinwheel forest on my Black playthrough and it has become an asset. I use Carracosta and Sawsbuck, so the Fighting resistance is greatly appreciated. On paper, he does have a shallow movepool pre-E4 but he learns a few fun and supportive moves like Screech and Bulldoze to pull his weight around with support. There's also been a few times where his physical bulk took a good Flying or Rock attack and Swarm kicked in for a nasty Bug Bite, Steamroller, or X-Scissor.
I think he works very well when he needs to. It all depends on the team, really.
Hah, these three are part of my first B/W playthrough on White. Everything you said is exactly how I feel about those three.
I ran with Samurott, Galvantula, Darmanitan, Golurk, Braviary, Conkledurr
Samurott is an excellent revenge killer. His bulk saved me from a lot of troules and Retaliate did a number on 3/4 of the 2nd Round E4. I use Surf / Aqua Jet / Revenge or Retaliate / X-Scissor or Megahorn. Surf is only there for HM usage and I plan on changing that to Scald when I get a chance. With the lack of Waters in Unova, Oshawatt being above the other two makes a lot of sense.
Darmanitan is becoming one of my favorite Fire-types. The sheer power of his Fire Punch makes my jaw drop every time it nearly OHKOs something that is 10+ levels higher. Flare Blitz is good for raw, unadulterated destruction, but I guess it comes down to personal choice. And it's great that Darmanitan gets so many options in that regard. He earns his position.
Galvantula is pretty much my favorite Pokemon, coming in a close second behind Nidoking. It's very simple, and very elegant, but I wish he had a bit more diversity in his movesets. But Thunder/Bug Buzz/Energy Ball is good enough, with one slot left open for preference. Very good, very very good.
Golurk is hilarious and I've had a lot of success for him so I'd like to vote Golett be moved up one tier. Ghost/Ground is a good typing late-game, resisting Fighting and Rock while also having enough Bulk to take on a few hits from other types. He can support your team with Will-o-Wisp and/or Bulldoze. For the first-round E4 and post-E4 game, Golurk works very well as an on-hand Flyer since it takes advantage of the move in battle (switching into Fighters and stalling BRN status).
Conkledurr, as everyone knows, is a beast and has proven his worth time and time again. Strength and bulk to take on even neutral hits. There isn't anything I can say that hasn't been said.
Braviary has been worth the work so I'd like to vote Rufflet be moved up one tier. Normal/Flying isn't a bad typing, with immunities to two types. If your team suffers from Ghost and/or Ground weaknesses, I can't think of any other Pokemon to use if you have the White Version. Maybe it's the team I had, since Braviary had a lot of synergy with my guys, but I found him to work out very well as a lead. Bulked Up Crush Claws, Rock Smashes, and Brave Birds feel viable enough to be considerd better than "low tier". Maybe I'm wrong.
I feel that the performance of the Pokemon in the game, no matter at what stage you may be, is what is important. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the tier system here, so please correct me with these votes if necessary.
braviary just comes so late that it severely hampers him. and he evolves at 54. he is just too late to really be anything above low.
Like I said, maybe I'm misunderstanding the original intention of the thread. From a "cannot trade" aspect, which includes a lot of post-E4 content, Braviary has been nothing but an asset. You have the East part of Unova, many high-level trainers, high-level challengers, Round 2 E4 and possibly even the Battle Subway (if you want to include that). I can understand the low-tier aspect of Rufflet from a "Main Story" point of view, however, so I concede on that point.
I can't find where/if it was officially stated, but the general consensus is that this thread is exclusively for getting to the credits and nothing later, which is why the Dragons are "Neutral Tier" and no pre-Gen V Pokemon are listed. You can do everything post-credits in any order and there are no clearly defined goals, so tiering the post-game is impossible (or at least pointless).
Um. What the fuck. I wasn't posting my team. I was giving my opinion on the things that I used.
I've beaten the game 4-5 times and therefor have used almost every pokemon. Here are my opinions of some of them.
Warning: Long post
Snivy: The worst starter and is out classed by some of the other grass-types. Poor movepool and the good moves he learns, he learns late. Fairly powerful after he learns leaf Blade and Coil, but pretty bad till then. Also fast and relatively bulky. Upper Mid.
Tepig: Great movepool but uses a lot of TM's. High HP and Atk with good SpA but he has poor Spd and Defences. Being Fighting-type is really helpful with all the Dark-types running around. Out classed by SOME of the other Fire-types. High tier.
Oshawott: The best starter, imo. Balanced stats all around, but his Spd and SpeD leave something to desire. Good movepool and is blessed with only two weaknesses. High tier.
Lillipup: Decent movepool, Intimidate, and a STAB Retalliate make it a great revenge killer. Upper-Mid/High.
Pansear: The worst monkey. Almost not worth using. Pretty good stats, Horrible movepool, only useful for the first Gym. Low Tier.
Pansage: Has great synergy with Tepig. Can go mixed, with pretty good stats and a decent movepool. Mid tier.
Panpour: The best monkey, imo. Again, can go mixed, with pretty good stats and a decent movepool. What makes him the best is the fact he learns the fantastic Scald. Mid tier.
Pidove: Decent stats with an awful (for those stats) movepool. Depends almost entirely on TM's but, with those move can hit pretty hard. Mid tier.
Drilbur: Massive Atk, good movepool, this guy is good. A little difficult to catch but with some patience you can find one. High tier.
Sewaddle: Awful defensive typing with good STABs. Evolves by Happiness, so you can get him early. Good movepool. Mid tier.
Petlill: Good stats, poor movepool. What makes her good is that she learns Sleep Powder and Quiver Dance. She also has Own Tempo which gives her a 120 BP grass move with almost no drawbacks. High tier.
Sandile: Two good STABs and two fantastic abilities. Good movepool and good stats. High tier.
Darumaka: Ridiculusly powerful with a fantastic movepool. One of the best pokes. High tier.
Scraggy: Some of the best dual-STABs in the game, two great abilities, great movepool (with a bunch of eggs moves as well, that are obtainable before postgame). The only problem is he evolves late, but if you give him an eviolite, he is almost imposible to KO. One of the best pokes. High tier.
Archen: Massive power and very fast. Horrible ability but your going to be OHKOing everything anyway. High tier
Minccino: I really like this guy. Technician is great with all those multi-hit moves and with Wake-up Slap. High tier (lol)
Warning: Long post
Snivy: The worst starter and is out classed by some of the other grass-types. Poor movepool and the good moves he learns, he learns late. Fairly powerful after he learns leaf Blade and Coil, but pretty bad till then. Also fast and relatively bulky. Upper Mid.
Tepig: Great movepool but uses a lot of TM's. High HP and Atk with good SpA but he has poor Spd and Defences. Being Fighting-type is really helpful with all the Dark-types running around. Out classed by SOME of the other Fire-types. High tier.
Oshawott: The best starter, imo. Balanced stats all around, but his Spd and SpeD leave something to desire. Good movepool and is blessed with only two weaknesses. High tier.
Lillipup: Decent movepool, Intimidate, and a STAB Retalliate make it a great revenge killer. Upper-Mid/High.
Pansear: The worst monkey. Almost not worth using. Pretty good stats, Horrible movepool, only useful for the first Gym. Low Tier.
Pansage: Has great synergy with Tepig. Can go mixed, with pretty good stats and a decent movepool. Mid tier.
Panpour: The best monkey, imo. Again, can go mixed, with pretty good stats and a decent movepool. What makes him the best is the fact he learns the fantastic Scald. Mid tier.
Pidove: Decent stats with an awful (for those stats) movepool. Depends almost entirely on TM's but, with those move can hit pretty hard. Mid tier.
Drilbur: Massive Atk, good movepool, this guy is good. A little difficult to catch but with some patience you can find one. High tier.
Sewaddle: Awful defensive typing with good STABs. Evolves by Happiness, so you can get him early. Good movepool. Mid tier.
Petlill: Good stats, poor movepool. What makes her good is that she learns Sleep Powder and Quiver Dance. She also has Own Tempo which gives her a 120 BP grass move with almost no drawbacks. High tier.
Sandile: Two good STABs and two fantastic abilities. Good movepool and good stats. High tier.
Darumaka: Ridiculusly powerful with a fantastic movepool. One of the best pokes. High tier.
Scraggy: Some of the best dual-STABs in the game, two great abilities, great movepool (with a bunch of eggs moves as well, that are obtainable before postgame). The only problem is he evolves late, but if you give him an eviolite, he is almost imposible to KO. One of the best pokes. High tier.
Archen: Massive power and very fast. Horrible ability but your going to be OHKOing everything anyway. High tier
Minccino: I really like this guy. Technician is great with all those multi-hit moves and with Wake-up Slap. High tier (lol)
Oh, I thought they were neutral because discussion of their tier would be spoilers. Oh well, no biggie. Braviary still kicks butt for post-e4 stuff.
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