In-Game Tier List Discussion

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Ampharos

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I'm on my second runthrough of the game, with 6 pokemon i havent used before, and my thoughts:<br />
Archeops: Auto-OHKO. Top tier well deserved.
Seismitoad: Sufficiently bulky with OK attack stats. Wavering between mid and high tier.
Scrafty: HJK+Moxie+Beast Defenses=rape. Top tier.
Gigalith: Golem, but without the annoying ground type and with sturdy. I really wanna call him high, but lets put him in the top of mid (obviously lower if you dont have access to Gigalith)
Krookodile: Pretty good along the lines of Seismitoad, though they have differing strengths. Wavering between mid and high.
Emboar: Heat crash is so awesome. That plus awesome attack stats make this high tier.
 
I am at City with Ground Gym and I have to defeat Plasma Team at Freeze Containers.

My impression at this moment:<br />
<br />
Watchog: He envolved after defeating Elesa, I didn't use him much, at least it has Hypnosis and Work Up, mine has Keen Eye por that annoying Sand Attack and Run Away is almost useless. Mid/Low tier

Simisear: I grinded her(lol) for to learn Flame Burst and forget that rubbish Incinerate for Bug Leader, and envolved before defeat him, quite useful, also has Yawn and Work Up Mid/High Tier
Before that she was a bit pain to level up, Incinerate is a rubbish move, even at same level to the opposite pokemon does not kill pokémon x4 weak to fire, at least it was a bit useful for burning Oran berries of Cheren's Pokemon.

Throh: I wonder why it isn't used much at Pokemon Competitive, it is the best Fighting Bulkupper of the whole game. At that point, he is pretty bulky and knows Revenge, Seismic Toss, Bide and Rest. He is slow as hell, but Rest solves a bit that. Mid/High Tier

Dewott: He is not so bulky, but he isn't slow and hits well. Mid tier.

Musharna: I envolved her after learning Moonlight, she is good, pretty bulky but again, slow as hell, Knows two sleep moves, Yawn and Hypnosis, and can heal herself with Moonlight. She is good, but the amount of Liepard and random pokemon that have Crunch made her not as good as she can be. Mid/High tier

Petilil: She surprised me, she is good for being an unenvolved pokemon, even without holding eviolite, she is not as bulky as others but her combo with: Growth, Sleep Powder, Gigadrain and Leech Seed make her worth.
Mid/High tier
 
TM13, I am assuming you are saving the Sun Stone until she learns Energy Ball, is that correct? That's in turn assuming you got the Sun Stone in Nimbasa City.

My White team, YouTube account in signature
Serpent (Serperior Level 55): Ultimately became a physical-only attacker after defeating Ghetsis, knowing Coil, Dragon Tail, Strength, Leaf Blade. Not bad for post game except walled by Steels, and Serpent doesn't have the raw power that the other starters would have with the same stat build, although it is quicker and has at least decent bulk coupled with Coil. Mid high
Squirt (Simipour Level 56): A monster post game, at least move wise, knowing Surf, Waterfall, Acrobatics, Ice Beam. Made me wish I carried Work Up again... Mid
Sylvester (Liepard Level 34): Retired after catching Zekrom. Ignored since Celestial Tower. Did prove its Dark typing useful against Munna / Musharna though, except Caitlin. Low
Sparky (Zebstrika Level 56): Not best, but not too shabby either. Knows Thunderbolt, Volt Switch, Flame Charge. Relearned Thunder Wave just for Pokédex pages. Motor Drive Ability is a saving grace though. Mid high
Star (Victini Level 56): Nice mixed attacker, especially post game when it learned Thunderbolt over Reversal, which I may have needed for Ghetsis' Hydreigon. Also knows triple STAB in Zen Headbutt, Flame Charge, and Fire Blast. Shame that I did not learn Zen Headbutt until post game either. Good bulk saved me too. High
Saur (Archeops Level 56): Instant KO's since Miss Elesa. Just got Dragon Claw over U-turn. Also knows Acrobatics, Earthquake, Rock Slide. No, I didn't want Stone Edge. Acted as my Flier since evolving, but prior to the post game events at Relic Castle. Top
Sergeant (Scrafty Level 55): Oh, how I LOVE this guy. Too bad I had to wait until post game. Knows Hi Jump Kick, Crunch, Brick Break, Bulk Up, and has the bulk and at least decent Attack to pull it off. Both possible abilities are excellent, mine has Shed Skin Ability and it proves useful. Top

If I had to arrange the team members into pairs, each containing two similar members, I would pair up Serpent and Sergeant (both physical attackers that can boost Attack and Defense), Star and Sparky (both carry Thunderbolt and Flame Charge), Saur and Squirt (both carry Acrobatics).
 
TM13, I am assuming you are saving the Sun Stone until she learns Energy Ball, is that correct? That's in turn assuming you got the Sun Stone in Nimbasa City.

There's no point in waiting until level 35 to evolve Petitlil for Energy Ball when Giga Drain has almost exactly the same power but also heals you. It's the superior move. Also, you'll want to evolve Petilil before level 28 so that Lilligant can learn Quiver Dance asap (otherwise you'll have to wait to use a Heart Scale in Driftveil.)

EDIT: Mistralton, not Driftveil. I got mixed up since Driftveil is where the Heart Scale woman is.
 
There's no point in waiting until level 35 to evolve Petitlil for Energy Ball when Giga Drain has almost exactly the same power but also heals you. It's the superior move. Also, you'll want to evolve Petilil before level 28 so that Lilligant can learn Quiver Dance asap (otherwise you'll have to wait to use a Heart Scale in Driftveil.)
Datai of YouTube wanted Energy Ball. Only in that case, it was Lillil from Black.
 
...you do know that you can already evolve Petilil if you are at Driftveil right?

Also Conkeldurr and Scrafty > Throh.
Yes, I know you are given a Sun Stone at Nimbasa but I decided to not learn Synthesis, but after, and I decided to wait until Flying Gym's City to relearn it and forget Leech Seed.

Also I've just seen Lilligrant can also relearn Synthesis and Leech Seed. Heart Scales are not an issue, at Ground Gym's City you are given one every day by the girl that wants to see a TM move, and only requests TM you have and the option to save close her, and restart if you don't want to show that TM move.

Why Conkeldurr and Scrafty > Throh? Conkeldurr has bad special defense and Scrafty bad HP
 
But Scrafty and Conkeldurr both have better movepools and attacking stats.
Actually, Scrafty has Base 90 Attack, while Throh has Base 100. However, Scrafty does have a much better movepool and a helpful Dark typing, and better Defenses to somewhat make up for the lack of HP.

Conkeldurr has pretty much the same coverage, but I'd always prefer Drain Punch + Mach Punch over Storm Throw + Overhead Throw along with better HP/Attack.
 
Conkeldurr: Ridiculous HP and dat 140 Attack

Scrafty: Excellent defenses and a workable Attack

Of course, this is all irrelevant since Bulk Up is not available on Scrafty pre-E4 without trading, but Work Up and Moxie is already ok enough.

Lilligant shouldn't need Synthesis. The insane amount of rain you'll see in the later part of the game(around Icirrus) means Synthesis is lol. Just use Giga Drain and get over it.
 
I'm at Nimbasa right now.

Servine: Mid-High
Why: Reasonably bulky and quite fast. Mine's adamant, so it also has passable attack. Will be much better after Leaf Blade. Leech Seed provides recovery

Panpour: Mid
Why: Average stats all around. Serves as the fire counter to my team. Just learned Scald, and will be beasting with it for a while. It'll evolve after Acrobatics

Blitzle: Mid
Why: No defenses, and his strongest move runs on his weaker attack stat. Surprising coverage, Flame Charge has proven very valuable. Just learned Spark, and it was hard to get there. It will prove valuable against Elesa.

Scraggy: Top
Why: It is my Eviolite user, and is amazing with it. Unresisted STAB ingame with great attack and impressive defenses is incredible. Mine has Shed Skin, so I taught it Rest. It's not the slowest guy around, either. It's nearly unkillable.

Rufflet: Bottom
I traded from my other game for it. It's pretty good, but normally it comes so late when all your pokemon are fully evolved. I'm just using it b/c I don't like any of the flyers except for Archeops.
 
On the topic of Lilligant/Petilil:

Get Giga Drain @ Lv 26

Evolve at Lv 26, 27 or 28, get Quiver Dance.

Movepool: Sleep Powder/Giga Drain/Quiver Dance

All you need. 4th move is filler, or, once avaliable, Hidden Power whatever. I can't even remember what my filler move was, because I never used it.

Everything but Sap Sippers, and x4 Resists dies horribly. And the x4 Resists are slow enough to be Sleep-Spammed.

----

Also, has anyone else noticed the OP hasn't been updated for 4 MONTHS TODAY? Not that there's much to update, except ordering the Teirs from best to worst.

And making a Basement Teir JUST for Purrloin. Seriously. If you think Gen 3 Poochyena was bad, Purrloin gets a worse STAB at about the same time, and when it's got it, Lillipup and Patrat have had Bite for a good 6+ levels... with higher attack and the flinch chance :/

Patrat then gets Crunch.
 
Conkeldurr: Ridiculous HP and dat 140 Attack

Scrafty: Excellent defenses and a workable Attack

Of course, this is all irrelevant since Bulk Up is not available on Scrafty pre-E4 without trading, but Work Up and Moxie is already ok enough.
Throh-Sawk learn Bulk Up from level up...
Can breed down Bulk Up thru a Mienfoo due to the TM list of Mienfoo
Mienfoo line is in one of Scrafty's egg groups.

Bulk Up Scraggy/Scrafty possible pre-E4.

Moves that hit twice, like Double-hit, Dual Chop, Double Kick, and Gear Grind are useful.

Prefer to use Eviolite Klang over Kinklang though.
 
emphasis on without trading

I don't remember Mienshao learning Bulk Up via level. The TM is only available post-E4, which Scrafty can learn anyway.

EDIT: I get what you mean. However, its even more troublesome than Megahorn Escavalier anyway :/
 
Conkeldurr: Ridiculous HP and dat 140 Attack

Scrafty: Excellent defenses and a workable Attack

Of course, this is all irrelevant since Bulk Up is not available on Scrafty pre-E4 without trading, but Work Up and Moxie is already ok enough.

Lilligant shouldn't need Synthesis. The insane amount of rain you'll see in the later part of the game(around Icirrus) means Synthesis is lol. Just use Giga Drain and get over it.
Maybe, but it can be useful for, when foes wake up, and... no, Giga Drain is enough for that really. Maybe for restoring HP when Giga Drain is not powerful enough for restoring the HP lost when the opponent wakes up.

How about available TM Dream Eater and Hidden Power are? Lilligrant movepool is so sucky, and these the only good moves to consider besides Leech Seed against bulky opponents.

Also, the best nature for Lilligrant is Own Tempo by far, besides avoiding confusion of Petal Dance, also avoids confusion for those annoying Swagger and Confuse Ray. Chlorophyll is nearly useless, Lilligrant needn't it by herself having Quiver Dance.
 
Dream Eater is okayish since in-game enemies never switch, but I don't remember that being available pre-E4. As for HP, you do get it before E4, but if you get stuck with something trollish like 30 Grass...
 
Yeah, Dream Eater is only available post-E4, which this thread doesn't cover. It's in the Dreamyard basement. It would have been a decent option otherwise.

Hidden Power just isn't that great in-game because of how unreliable it is. Unfortunately you can't simply choose to have it be Fire, 70 BP. You have to get lucky. You get it from Prof. Juniper after you've seen 100 'mons.

Luckily Lilligant doesn't exactly care about her lack of coverage when you use her in-game since anything she can't OHKO she can just sleep, QD, then murder everything.
 
Hidden Power just isn't that great in-game because of how unreliable it is. Unfortunately you can't simply choose to have it be Fire, 70 BP. You have to get lucky. You get it from Prof. Juniper after you've seen 100 'mons.
For reference, the trade Lilligant/Whimsicott have 40 Power Ground as their Hidden Power. Probably not worth it.

Chlorophyll is semi-useful on Lilligant, but not much. Sunny Day activating Chlorophyll and SolarBeam is actually faster setup than Quiver Dance and Giga Drain, but you're worse off if you don't need a boost, if you would have used QD twice anyways, or if you have Petal Dance already. Ultimately Quiver Dance is more versatile, but if you want to take advantage of the trade version's ability it isn't too unreasonable.
 
Chlorophyll Lilligrant isn't worthwhile. She is fast enough with 1 Quiver Dance and +1 Giga Drain is better than Solarbeam, factoring in Giga Drain also heals her. Own tempo also avoids confusion of Swagger and Confuse Ray.

Also TM Solarbeam and Sunny day are avalaible when you come at City Flying's Gim. Half of the game you are running an useless ability.

Hidden Power is very unreliable, but if you are extremely lucky, you can use a Hidden Power Water, Ground, Fire or Ice with power 50, not useless at all, also at City Flying's Pokemon Center there is a boy that tells what type Hidden Power is.
 
I'm going to try not to talk about my team. Instead, here's my ratings on a couple things.
Munna- You get this really early. It gets Psybeam very early on (usually when you catch it), and it has decent sp att for the beginning of the game. Musharna is amazingly bulky, and can take tons of hits, strike back, and use Moonlight to heal. The problem with it is that you're either stuck with Psybeam if you evolve early (until you get the Psychic TM post game), or you keep it as a weak little Munna until level 37. Great pokemon, but not worth the effort. low-mid

Lilligant- Petilil is a pain to train. Everything kills it, it's super slow, and not even that strong. However, once you get to level 26 and Giga Drain, evolve right away. Lilligant is fast, strong, and can use Quiver Dance (1 will do), to outspeed and 1HKO everything that doesn't resist grass. Petal Dance combos well with Own Tempo, letting you use a 180 BP move with no downsides. It's pretty much stuck with Grass attacks though. upper-mid

Darmanitan- Personally, I found Darumaka a bit annoying to train. Sure, it kills everything with Fire Punch, but the accuracy drop isn't worth it (maybe that's just because I missed 4 times in a row with fire punch). But evolving into Darmanitan is like putting it on steroids. Decent speed, and rips through everything. You could cut down its base attack by 20, and it could kill everything in the game. high

Zebstrika- Blitzle is super fast, and has decent mixed attacking stats. Pretty good coverage too with its level up moves. Zebstrika just makes it faster, and keeps its stats up (in relation to the rest of the game). However, it seems to die in 2 hits to everything. mid

Pansear- Definitely the worst of the monkeys. While Pansage and Pansoak destroy the first gym easily, Incinerate sucks really hard, and I had to heal this thing multiple times. I ditched it for Darumaka, but I'm sure if it got Flame Burst, it would be a semi-decent pokemon. low mid

Sigilyph- I feel this one is pretty overrated. It is one of the better flying pokemon, though. Its starting moves are passable, and it takes a few hits to kill things. It gets a lot better after Psychic and Air Slash, but 20 levels of rather weak moves is disappointing. upper mid

Lillipup- Definitely the best pokemon you get in the first few routes. STAB on Tackle is amazing early game, and it has the stats to back it up, unlike Patrat. Normal STAB is still epic with return mid game, and you can come out with a 1HKO with Retaliate after another pokemon gets knocked out. If it came later in game (like if it switched with Minccino), it wouldn't be this high, but it's pretty much there with you from the start. high

Scraggy- With an Eviolite it's insanely hard to take down this thing. Great typing, good movepool, but on the slow side. Hi Jump Kick is very, very painful. Too slow to sweep, though. upper mid
 
@ Lillipup: in game, I used a Vital Spirit Lillipup from start to Badge 3 (White run). Was Lv19 by Lenora fight. Having saved pre fight, I had to used one X-Speed to crap on Watchog. Lenora's had Illuminate, and actually used Hypnosis while I did Rock Smash.

Higher levelled (late-game?) one with Pickup I use: Aerial Ace, Take Down, Bite (for flinch), Rock Smash.

Sawk and Throh aren't used in the game until the Elite 4, I think. They aren't even that good since my swobat could beat them, and my swobat was like 5 levels behind them.
A few of those martial artist type Trainers use them, though in cave I think. Might be the lower level of Wellspring. Seem to recall some Level 30-some ones.
 
A few of those martial artist type Trainers use them, though in cave I think. Might be the lower level of Wellspring. Seem to recall some Level 30-some ones.
Because I was curious, I did some checking, and the following Trainers use Sawk and/or Throh pre-Elite 4:

Big Stadium
Linebacker Bob (Both Lv. 40)

Route 10
Black Belt Corey (Sawk Lv. 40)

Twist Mountain
Battle Girl Sharon (Throh Lv. 36)
Black Belt Teppei (Sawk Lv. 36)

Wellspring Cave
Black Belt Edward (Both Lv. 34)
Battle Girl Maggie (Sawk Lv. 35)
Battle Girl Xiao (Throh Lv. 35)

I might have missed one somewhere.
 
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