Oh well errr. hmmmm. I stick HP fire on my specs Samurott for ferroseed. I also run trick Uxie for the abundant amounts of eviolite (it makes me so paranoid that EVERY enemy Uxie is also trick scarf but they never are -_-) Even eviolite frillish is starting to show up, but it's not a big a threat as the other eviolite pokes. Red Card is common on set up leads. (Though I won't take credit for starting it as that's silly I will state I've been using it for about 2 months, so yeah, poke hipster) IDK for playing RU so much I don't really have much to say. :P (rank 51, 1100+ pts) Um haze quilfish is annoying btw
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Rarely Used (RU) Tier
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
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@ JT Swift
Venomoth is arguably the biggest threat in the tier and every team needs a counter or several checks. Beware of Sleep Powder if you are packing just a single counter.
SubCM Cresselia is another threat that you absolutely need to be able to counter, but it is actually much easier than Venomoth to deal with and is generally not as huge a threat as it was hyped to be. It's manageable because it can't do much damage until it sets up a lot, giving you plenty of time to adjust accordingly.
Next up I would have to say Honchkrow just because of its coverage. Brave Bird hurts anything and Sucker Punch makes him hard to take down. Superpower and Heat Wave can screw any potential checks or counters. Be prepared for this.
Lastly are the speed boosters in Sharpedo and Yanmega. They require completely different checks and counters. Speed boost Yanmega is relatively easy to handle because it has a few hard counters but Sharpedo is an excellent wall-breaker and will be hard to take down once it gets too fast. Specs Yanmega is much harder to handle as even the best special walls are close to or outright 2HKOed so switching in can be dangerous.
Also be aware of slow pokemon carrying speed boosting moves, Rock Polish Rhyperior and Aggron could put unexpected pressure on you so keep that in mind. Other than that, just dive in and have fun. I'm sure you'll notice other none standard threats as you face them.
The most useful Hidden Power award goes to (in my opinion): Fire! (helps against Bugs, the most dangerous type in the tier as well as hitting Grass, Ice and rare Steel types). Ice can be good too for hitting Flying types and also hits Grass and Ground types. There aren't many Dragons though so it isn't as useful.
Venomoth is arguably the biggest threat in the tier and every team needs a counter or several checks. Beware of Sleep Powder if you are packing just a single counter.
SubCM Cresselia is another threat that you absolutely need to be able to counter, but it is actually much easier than Venomoth to deal with and is generally not as huge a threat as it was hyped to be. It's manageable because it can't do much damage until it sets up a lot, giving you plenty of time to adjust accordingly.
Next up I would have to say Honchkrow just because of its coverage. Brave Bird hurts anything and Sucker Punch makes him hard to take down. Superpower and Heat Wave can screw any potential checks or counters. Be prepared for this.
Lastly are the speed boosters in Sharpedo and Yanmega. They require completely different checks and counters. Speed boost Yanmega is relatively easy to handle because it has a few hard counters but Sharpedo is an excellent wall-breaker and will be hard to take down once it gets too fast. Specs Yanmega is much harder to handle as even the best special walls are close to or outright 2HKOed so switching in can be dangerous.
Also be aware of slow pokemon carrying speed boosting moves, Rock Polish Rhyperior and Aggron could put unexpected pressure on you so keep that in mind. Other than that, just dive in and have fun. I'm sure you'll notice other none standard threats as you face them.
The most useful Hidden Power award goes to (in my opinion): Fire! (helps against Bugs, the most dangerous type in the tier as well as hitting Grass, Ice and rare Steel types). Ice can be good too for hitting Flying types and also hits Grass and Ground types. There aren't many Dragons though so it isn't as useful.
Along with Venomoth, Galvantula is up there too. 91% accurate STAB Thunder is scary enough, then factoring in its other incredible STAB in Bug Buzz as well as Energy Ball to hit Rhydon/Rhyperior/Gastrodon/other random Grounds. I've been running HP Ice (no clue why), but with HP Fire it can get around Ferroseed and loses coverage on just Altaria, which is hit hard by Thunder anyway. Having base 108 speed makes it as fast as Ape, allowing it to outspeed most of the tier, including Venomoth and Yanmega (before a Speed Boost of course), who he can easily OHKO with Thunder, even without Rocks. Its only downfall is its frialty, but it still is able to sweep without a boost (at least for me) if brought in after a KO or on a resisted hit.
For all of you who don't believe that Emboar is a monster:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JGf5XIQNsw&feature=feedu
He won this game for Dangerous36m! hell he took down a Wash Rotom, Scrafty, Mew and Latios with Emboar! Take that Xephyr!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JGf5XIQNsw&feature=feedu
He won this game for Dangerous36m! hell he took down a Wash Rotom, Scrafty, Mew and Latios with Emboar! Take that Xephyr!
>.>
The attack and speed difference is barely worth mentioning not more than a 5 point difference in both cases. Both are slow as shit and rely on sucker punch to fuck up everything faster than them.
Honchkrow has stab Brave Bird, usable bulk, Roost, and a superior defensive typing. Even with Swords Dance Absol struggles not to be outclassed by Moxie Honchrow.
His opponent was using a rock gem archeops though. I'm just saying.
Well the point of me linking that video was to show that an Emboar can be used to pick off things the opponent has due to its powerful stab moves. The point was also to show that a great player could use Emboar effectively. It is well known on Youtube that Dangerous36m is a very good player.
Who said anything bad about Emboar? Are you that kid who's arguing w/ xephyr on the threatlist thread? Don't drag that hear please... Embaor's never posed a problem for me. He's not bad but there's better stuff than him in RU. <3 Dangerous36M though
I do love how I am called a kid despite being a 6'7 17 year old with an abnormally deep voice. Haha.
The only reason I really use Emboar over something like Entei and Typhlosion is because of:
- his attack stat
- his Fire/Fighting stabs
- Favorite pokemon
Really the only viable Emboar set is Scarfed, and even then its not a sweeper. Its meant to pick off things. I realize that now. The only reason one would ever use it over something like a Scarfed Typhlosion or a Banded Entei in a competitive setting is because of his STAB Flare Blitz and STAB Superpower and possibly his 123 base attack stat.
I did honestly go on and on about lame sets like a little whiny brat and that was wrong of me. I just get so riled up about how limited some pokemon are in terms of usefulness.
Oh and that makes me think, what if Darmanitan was Fire/Fighting and what if Emboar got Sheer Force instead of Reckless?
I called you a kid based on actions (Xephyr's a tad unreasonable as well) you could be a 73 year old woman for all I care. Scarfboar is OK but off of 65 speed it's meh (hence it's RU placement) though it has some really nice STABS and a decent 110 HP. I'd try a band set though for my secondary lets see what works team. What is your scarf outspeeding? Jolly(no scarf) barely outspeeds base 90 w/out spd investment. So it actually outspeeds a lot of my team :P (rank 46 atm) Granted the scarf is hella restricting as I can resist all his stabs and hit ko back.
Well he is very limited in usage I suppose. Jolly actually outspeeds base 100s with no speed investment, not that it matters though.
You would use him just like Dangerous36m did. Attack with high powered STAB then switch him out. He cannot sweep like Typholosion and Entei can, but he can pick things off if you have good prediction.
I would say still put a lot of EVs in HP so you do have bulk but make sure you have MAX attack.
Emboar only reaches 376 speed with 252 evs in speed, jolly and a scarf. Which isn't really fast at all but he has just enough bulk to take nuetral hits without a problem.
Choice Band Trick Room set would work wonders imo.
Despite all I have said, Emboar probably won't be an actual threat until NU is released. I cannot really think of another Fire or Fighting pokemon that would outshine Emboar in NU.
Emboar has a notoriously awesome STAB combination and a fat ass Attack to use them with. However, the reason it is not used more is simply because despite it outdamaging Entei, it lacks useful utility moves such as Extremespeed that help out the team in a bad spot. Its shallow movepool also means it is predictable (although admittedly Fire/Fighting is a very hard combination to try to outpredict :P). Entei for example can run any set Emboar can, while also being able to go down the special route, or be a bulky RestTalker or a bulky phazer thus making it unpredictable. And yes I have faced all of those in RU and some of them threw me off pretty badly but not an Emboar yet. The point is, Emboar has huge damage potential but its shallow movepool, and also its poor Speed, kinda limits him a bit too much for most teams. I don't doubt that it's powerful enough to build a team around but he just doesn't give enough to most teams to really stake a good claim. Flame Charge can be a great late game finisher but that is probably his only niche as Entei does the CB sets better and Scarf sets are best left to other Pokemon.
You make some pretty good points. Unless Gray gives Emboar some useful tutor moves he will be destined to the bottom tiers.
Outside of Trick Room Emboar really isn't that great in comparison to other things until those things that outshine him are banned from whatever tier he is in. (IE Emboar being in NU and Entei/Typhlosion being restricted to RU+)
Emboar has a lot of potential with Reckless, a high base attack and a cool stab typing. Unfortunately Entei outclasses it as a choice bander for the most part. Emboar has a really powerful Flare Blitz but Entei is way faster and has much better bulk including 1 less weakness. (Although being weak to rock is not a very good thing to be weak to.) Entei is also overall better because it has quite a few movesets it can run and doesn't have to be a heavy hitter. Plus it has useful moves like Extremespeed and such.
Emboar is probably good for hitting really hard but it dies pretty quickly and it's slow.
Magmorter is a pretty useful fire type in RU. With a choice scarf it can outspeed most pokemon in the tier and it has an awesome base special attack. (125) It also gets thunderbolt for water types.
Emboar is probably good for hitting really hard but it dies pretty quickly and it's slow.
Magmorter is a pretty useful fire type in RU. With a choice scarf it can outspeed most pokemon in the tier and it has an awesome base special attack. (125) It also gets thunderbolt for water types.
Considering how a Scarftar has 61 Base Speed and threatens so many checks regardless of Pursuit, I would think that a 65 Base Speed of Emboar has sufficient Speed to revenge-kill lot of threats.
And I wouldn't call Emboar's movepool shallow... Grass Knot, Wild Charge, Curse, Work Up, Endeavor, Yawn, STAB Hammer Arm and Superpower doesn't seem shallow in comparison to Calm Mind, Extremespeed, and Iron Head for Entei.
It's really Entei's well-placed stats that sets it apart. Great bulk, power, 100 base speed, and of course the priority Extremespeed all outweighs the diverse movepool and unique typing of Emboar.
And I wouldn't call Emboar's movepool shallow... Grass Knot, Wild Charge, Curse, Work Up, Endeavor, Yawn, STAB Hammer Arm and Superpower doesn't seem shallow in comparison to Calm Mind, Extremespeed, and Iron Head for Entei.
It's really Entei's well-placed stats that sets it apart. Great bulk, power, 100 base speed, and of course the priority Extremespeed all outweighs the diverse movepool and unique typing of Emboar.
Yes it probably is the stats more than anything that holds Emboar back. I was refering more to movesets than movepool, I worded it wrong. The movepool dictates the sets a Pokemon can run, Emboar has very few usable sets despite it getting good type coverage. Think about Eelektross or Octillery. Entei has the movepool and the stats to be much more diverse. Emboar lacks that diversity despite getting those 'looks good on paper' moves of Grass Knot, Work Up, Endeavor, Yawn and Curse that could never be viable. Wild Charge is a fantastic move though.
The problem with Onix is it has awful special defence, even eviolite doesn't really help it with that especially with the fact it's weak to a lot of common types. Onix also has an awful base hp. It'll probably be able to tank physical hits better then Steelix but it has a worse defensive typing for that and again like I said: An awful base special defence with 4X weakness to water and grass. If Eviolite Onix is combined with sandstorm it could take special attacks pretty easily.
Having the same attack stat as a Wurmple doesn't exactly help Onix's case. And Chris, there is no sandstorm in RU. I know a lot of people like using their fav poke competitively, it doesn't work a lot of the time. Also, its speed means shit if a reason you're using it is a move with -6 priority.
While true, I have never seen a sand team on PO (and I'm top 30, so I do know some stuff) and Onix has such low Sp. Def, its really not going to help him in the long run. Max HP/ Max Sp. Def Eviolite in sand may have 414 Sp. Def, but having only 274 HP hurts him, plus it won't last very long. The sand will do more damage than it will in that time anyway.
Base 35 hp and 45 Special Def
Even a sandstorm and a eviolite wont be helping him take a special hit, even a resisted one.
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