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Programming Pokemon+ : Luck-free server (DONE!)
- Thread starter Innocent Criminal
- Start date
This is so damn cool, good job man
One suggestion I'd like to make to remove the last elements of luck (team advantage and guessing what the foe's team is) would be to include a "mirror" tier in which both players are forced by script to use the same team. There are several ways to pick the team used (such as randomly picking the team of one player), but the ideal seems to me to use something similar to nixeage's Shanai battle bot which is able to draw teams from a wiki page (this one) on command. Players would add teams to the page and the script would pick one of the teams for both players to use. Teams would be designed to discourage first turn speed ties (by making several possible switches on turn one most likely, or wifi clause).
A server.
You can find it in PO's server list, it's called "PK+ Luck-Free Server"
@ete : I really like this idea. I think it would work better as a tournament than as a ladder (considering the time it takes to analyze a team), with each round using a specifically designed team, and would really go well with this server's concept.
@ete : I really like this idea. I think it would work better as a tournament than as a ladder (considering the time it takes to analyze a team), with each round using a specifically designed team, and would really go well with this server's concept.
If you do make a tournament out of that, I'd like to see each round have one "unorthodox" Pokemon. Basically, an Underused or lower that still completes the synergy of the team.
Round A: Special Sweeper, instead of something like Espeon / Hydreigon / etc, this role will be filled by Nasty Plot Raichu.
Round B: Instead of Ferrothorn as your standard wall, it's Registeel.
etc etc
It adds a nice little touch to "Everybody has the same team"
Round A: Special Sweeper, instead of something like Espeon / Hydreigon / etc, this role will be filled by Nasty Plot Raichu.
Round B: Instead of Ferrothorn as your standard wall, it's Registeel.
etc etc
It adds a nice little touch to "Everybody has the same team"
Hustle doesn't do anything for now.
Why? EDIT-- Oh ok it crashed the server.
Ok, I can see why the latter two are banned (lol Thunderbolt/Flamethrower), but can't we make Dynamicpunch a Fighting-type Earthquake and leave it at that?
I don't understand the double standard. The first three lock you for two turns, so why are they worse than the latter ones?
It crashed the server for no apparent reason, and since it has no competitive use in singles, it was simpler to disable its code ban it.
About your other questions, I would like to keep this new metagame similar enough to standard, so that people don't have to "learn two pokémons". It's not about making Outrage as good of Fire Blast, but make it play like standard Outrage, which basically forces you to switch or sacc your dragon unless you used a specific item (lum berry/white herb). A weakened steel should still be 2HKO'ed by Outrage but save the game by activating its side effect. Seed Flare traded its nice side effect for some accuracy, and Power Whip is a temporary double standard in favor of Ferrothorn, as he keeps a lot of threats at bay and I don't want to risk messing up the metagame too much.
All of these are obviously first drafts, and some will probably be changed after more playtesting.
About your other questions, I would like to keep this new metagame similar enough to standard, so that people don't have to "learn two pokémons". It's not about making Outrage as good of Fire Blast, but make it play like standard Outrage, which basically forces you to switch or sacc your dragon unless you used a specific item (lum berry/white herb). A weakened steel should still be 2HKO'ed by Outrage but save the game by activating its side effect. Seed Flare traded its nice side effect for some accuracy, and Power Whip is a temporary double standard in favor of Ferrothorn, as he keeps a lot of threats at bay and I don't want to risk messing up the metagame too much.
All of these are obviously first drafts, and some will probably be changed after more playtesting.
Glad you like the idea. I actually ran it as a tournament already (each round had three matches between the players, they made a team each and one was included in the OP for everyone. Finals are here with links to other rounds.), and another tourney ("Pure Skill Tournament" ?) would certainly be a cool way to promote the server. I'd be up for writing rules and trying to get the tourney approved, but someone else should be around to handle posting each round/finding people to make teams/giving activity wins.
I would like to see a ladder too though (much more room for practice, a tourney is only a few games per person), perhaps tied in with the tourney, so that the primary team for each round is set as the ladder team for the duration of that round? Should be much more simple to script than something with multiple teams. And after the tourney is finished depending on activity and feedback work out how best to handle which/how many teams are used and whether to continue?
Oh, and for the server, add some more tiers! At least make doubles and triples tiers :p. Ubers would be nice too.
@the interwebs : all of this was done through modification of the server's code (as PO is open source), along with a few edits to the database. Scripts don't allow you to modify battle mechanics.
@ete & LS : Thanks for your offers ! Ete's idea would probably best for a first tournament, as this is an uncharted territory. Considering your history here and the fact that you already did that kind of tourney, you'd be welcome to start it ! It will probably improve its credibility and appeal towards players. Copypasting your Mirror Match Tournament with a few edits will save a lot of efforts, and I can take care of the rest with LS if he's interested. I guess there's no rules against 3 co-hosts ;)
What do you guys think of this format for each round :
- one competitively viable host team
- one gimmicky host team
- one "standard" battle with player-made, different teams (still with PK+ mechanics).
In this case, I think it might be very interesting to try and make a team without even having a metagame to look at, and guess what works best, what your opponent is most likely to use.
As for the gimmicky teams, it could help showcase some of the new mechanics by taking their consequences to an extreme degree. For exemple, a team made of 6 phazers without any entry hazard could make a very interesting battle with the new mechanics.
What do you think ?
@ete & LS : Thanks for your offers ! Ete's idea would probably best for a first tournament, as this is an uncharted territory. Considering your history here and the fact that you already did that kind of tourney, you'd be welcome to start it ! It will probably improve its credibility and appeal towards players. Copypasting your Mirror Match Tournament with a few edits will save a lot of efforts, and I can take care of the rest with LS if he's interested. I guess there's no rules against 3 co-hosts ;)
What do you guys think of this format for each round :
- one competitively viable host team
- one gimmicky host team
- one "standard" battle with player-made, different teams (still with PK+ mechanics).
In this case, I think it might be very interesting to try and make a team without even having a metagame to look at, and guess what works best, what your opponent is most likely to use.
As for the gimmicky teams, it could help showcase some of the new mechanics by taking their consequences to an extreme degree. For exemple, a team made of 6 phazers without any entry hazard could make a very interesting battle with the new mechanics.
What do you think ?
I could help with digging up obscure Pokemon for sure.
My first Gen 4 team was Crobat / Lucario / Raichu / Ninjask / Cradily / Metagross, so obscurity is kind of my niche, heh.
Remember that Mega Kick is viable now, so that's an option over Return for anybody that gets it. I'll be sure to find a way to incorporate that in the "gimmicky"
Team of 6 PHazers sounds pretty interesting. I'm thinking...
Skarmory / Hippowdon / Snorlax / Suicune / Dragonite / Walrein
Your thoughts?
My first Gen 4 team was Crobat / Lucario / Raichu / Ninjask / Cradily / Metagross, so obscurity is kind of my niche, heh.
Remember that Mega Kick is viable now, so that's an option over Return for anybody that gets it. I'll be sure to find a way to incorporate that in the "gimmicky"
Team of 6 PHazers sounds pretty interesting. I'm thinking...
Skarmory / Hippowdon / Snorlax / Suicune / Dragonite / Walrein
Your thoughts?
Sorry for the slight off-topic... I mentioned this on your thread in DST but this place seems more appropriate.
I think the activation-on-the-second-hit should also apply to Iron Head / Rock Slide / Air Slash flinch (30% chance), which would otherwise be a shitty Iron Tail / Stone- Edge / Hurricane. Granted Rock Slide is usually seen on Sweepers, most notably on Excadrill, who usually doesn't really rely on the flinch chance but more for coverage, and giving this added effect may be dangerously exploited by such sweepers. However, I must argue that Iron Head and even Air Slash is often used for its secondary effect than for coverage / power, so I think a 30% chance-effect for Iron Head and Air Slash are justified if not for Rock Slide.
I think the activation-on-the-second-hit should also apply to Iron Head / Rock Slide / Air Slash flinch (30% chance), which would otherwise be a shitty Iron Tail / Stone- Edge / Hurricane. Granted Rock Slide is usually seen on Sweepers, most notably on Excadrill, who usually doesn't really rely on the flinch chance but more for coverage, and giving this added effect may be dangerously exploited by such sweepers. However, I must argue that Iron Head and even Air Slash is often used for its secondary effect than for coverage / power, so I think a 30% chance-effect for Iron Head and Air Slash are justified if not for Rock Slide.
@Pocket : Flinching was already brought up a couple of times, but this is only a temporary removal : for different reasons (including potential to be broken and/or annoying and interaction with Serene Grace that is also on hold), I will deal with this later. It's not a huge part of the game, Togekiss is bad anyway in 5G and Jirachi has plenty of other options, so it won't be missed much until then.
@Lady Salamence : I guess it would be fine, but since he kindly offered to do it, I feel like ete would really help give this more credibility, and everything that can be done to help this get approved and convince many players definitely should. I mean, this is a tournament with custom mechanics on another server (and my thread was deleted for some time, although I did forget to mention I had a mod's permission), so some players might not take this seriously, especially if it looks like we're copying ete's tourney !
Still, this would be explicitedly co-hosted by us three, with you and I explicitly taking care of the tourney (and making teams), ete being the rulemaker. I mean, he did design that tourney in the first place :p
@Lady Salamence : I guess it would be fine, but since he kindly offered to do it, I feel like ete would really help give this more credibility, and everything that can be done to help this get approved and convince many players definitely should. I mean, this is a tournament with custom mechanics on another server (and my thread was deleted for some time, although I did forget to mention I had a mod's permission), so some players might not take this seriously, especially if it looks like we're copying ete's tourney !
Still, this would be explicitedly co-hosted by us three, with you and I explicitly taking care of the tourney (and making teams), ete being the rulemaker. I mean, he did design that tourney in the first place :p
What happend to CompoundEyes?
And why is hypnosis banned?, while it has wider distribution, it's still in the would hit range, yeah, you might hate sleep, but the bulky pokes like bronzong are always bulky enough to use it twice for the sleeping chance (or in the switch in), this might be haxy, but with sleeping moves as they are only grass types can use them (and they already have power whip going on for them)
Why not make sleep talk to select the first move from the upper-left (something like roar's effect)?
Still, nice job, i love to see machamp gone for good, i've alwas hated that thing
And why is hypnosis banned?, while it has wider distribution, it's still in the would hit range, yeah, you might hate sleep, but the bulky pokes like bronzong are always bulky enough to use it twice for the sleeping chance (or in the switch in), this might be haxy, but with sleeping moves as they are only grass types can use them (and they already have power whip going on for them)
Why not make sleep talk to select the first move from the upper-left (something like roar's effect)?
Still, nice job, i love to see machamp gone for good, i've alwas hated that thing
I do not "hate" sleep, but let's face it, Hypnosis isn't viable in the standard metagame. The only common user is Ninetales because it doesn't have anything better to do (and some Politoeds for the same reason). I don't want any pokemon to gain such a game-breaking option. Especially not Gengar. Or Whimsicott. Or Blissey. Or even Yanmega.
Sleep Talk always selecting the first move would be ridiculously broken with phazing. Selecting the first, then second move would still be ridiculously broken with Roar + Dragon Tail (or Protect). Sure, there might be some specific counters, but something that doesn't exist in the standard metagame should be a centralizing threat here.
Sleep Talk always selecting the first move would be ridiculously broken with phazing. Selecting the first, then second move would still be ridiculously broken with Roar + Dragon Tail (or Protect). Sure, there might be some specific counters, but something that doesn't exist in the standard metagame should be a centralizing threat here.