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Chandelure

WinstonShnozwick said:
just wondering, if/when ST Chandelure is released (Shandara was a way better name -_-) will it be pretty much banned from OU right away? because with the kind of raw power it has, every steel not heatran is dead to ST chandelure and there will be a ton more common poke's in the metagame that are screwed over by ghost/fire.
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That remains to be seen by Suspect Testing, but imho it's not really that broken, just annoying.
Either way I'd hope that people don't call for bans too soon.
 
That remains to be seen by Suspect Testing, but imho it's not really that broken, just annoying.
Either way I'd hope that people don't call for bans too soon.
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Trapping is a double edged thing, the users like it, the targets hate it. Personally I love the potential of Shadow Tag Chandelure and I hope it doesn't get banned when released. Because there are really some effing annoying stall pokemon and others that I just hate with a passion and can destroy with Chandelure.
 
Is it just me or this guy wall the majority of sun sweepers ? venusaur / sawsbuck can't beat it , specially if it have the baloon .. and he really can murder teams with his fire stab and HP fighting ..

a really cool pokemon , i was thinking why the hell would he be OU but then i started using it and it rapes unprepared teams ..
 
Umm, have fun with Earthquake Venusaur and Nature Power Sawsbuck.

The best Chandelure set that I have seen, and which I think is his best niche, lest he be raped up the ass by Scarftar.

Stall Breaker
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Chandelure @Leftovers
132 HP / 252 SpA / 124 spe
Timid nature
~Taunt
~Fire Blast (/Flamethrower)
~Shadow Ball
~Will-O-Wisp/Pain Split/Substitute

EVs are just to outspeed standard Gliscor. If someone can find a better spread, then, yeah. This spread isn't too exact.
 
Z-rex said:
Is it just me or this guy wall the majority of sun sweepers ? venusaur / sawsbuck can't beat it , specially if it have the baloon .. and he really can murder teams with his fire stab and HP fighting ..

a really cool pokemon , i was thinking why the hell would he be OU but then i started using it and it rapes unprepared teams ..
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Nature Power is often recommended on Sawsbuck since it turns into Earthquake, and Venusaur (at least in Ubers) sometimes uses HP Ground. Sawsbuck (and Venusaur in DW) has Chlorophyll, so I wouldn't call Chandelure much of a check to either.

Sun teams will have some tricks up their sleeves, and will certainly use them more if TR teams come out.

I've had a bit of experience with it in DW Ubers, even though that is quite a different playing field. :)
 
Stallbreaker chandelure would be better if stall teams were more common. Or if Meru didn't use CB tyranitar.
 
IMO wouldn't running an air balloon on Chandelure give it a greater chance to sweep if given calm mind and flame charge? air balloon to get rid of the ground weakness and to give it a free switch in on a predicted EQ from the likes of TTar or Hippowdon and hit back with either HP fighting or energy ball whilst they spend a turn trying to pop the balloon
 
^Shadow Chandy means that Excadrill now has no counters, as they are all killed by chandelure. Shadow Chandy now means that Latios no longer has any counters who aren't named Tyranitar...as they are ALL killed by Chandelure.

Oh by the way. Were you planning on using celebi, tangrowth, ferrothorn, jellicient, skarmory, bronzong, jirachi, etc, as your wall of choice? That's wonderful. Have fun using shed shell on every last one them. Using Gastrodon, quagsire, or swampert to counter thundurus? What are you talking about? How are they going to be countering anything when they get picked off by a chandelure energy ball? And before blaziken was banned, slowbro was his only counter? Ha! Chandelure.

And this is barely scraping the surface of what shadow tag chandelure can do. In the hands of a bad player, you'll probably only see it kill one pokemon and then get revenged by your pursuit tyranitar. In the hands of a good player, it does a much better job that wobbufett ever could dream of doing at picking off anything that could easily get in your way. This is a huge deal for pokemon like latios, whose "counters" and checks do not threaten chandy at all whatsoever.

In the dreamworld tier, you had breloom randomly tossing out stone edges instead of killing the excadrill in front of him with a technician mach punch. I've seen Scizor carry night slash. Choice Band Night slash. And that is only for chandy's trap/revenge set. Ever had a subCM Chandy double switch onto your Blissey as you attempted to wall something? Oops. Unlike Magnezone, this thing probably won't stop at only killing two pokemon. Better hope tyranitar and heatran are still alive, or that chandy wasn't carrying flame charge so that it could avoid being revenged.
 
I played DW until around June. I know exactly what shadow shandy is capable of, alphatron. you're making it sound worse than it is.
 
^Shadow Chandy means that Excadrill now has no counters, as they are all killed by chandelure. Shadow Chandy now means that Latios no longer has any counters who aren't named Tyranitar...as they are ALL killed by Chandelure.

Oh by the way. Were you planning on using celebi, tangrowth, ferrothorn, jellicient, skarmory, bronzong, jirachi, etc, as your wall of choice? That's wonderful. Have fun using shed shell on every last one them. Using Gastrodon, quagsire, or swampert to counter thundurus? What are you talking about? How are they going to be countering anything when they get picked off by a chandelure energy ball? And before blaziken was banned, slowbro was his only counter? Ha! Chandelure.

And this is barely scraping the surface of what shadow tag chandelure can do. In the hands of a bad player, you'll probably only see it kill one pokemon and then get revenged by your pursuit tyranitar. In the hands of a good player, it does a much better job that wobbufett ever could dream of doing at picking off anything that could easily get in your way. This is a huge deal for pokemon like latios, whose "counters" and checks do not threaten chandy at all whatsoever.

edit: and it's speed sucks compared to many common sweepers that would revenge it, and if it has a scarf then you can pick a pokemon to easily dispatch it the next turn

In the dreamworld tier, you had breloom randomly tossing out stone edges instead of killing the excadrill in front of him with a technician mach punch. I've seen Scizor carry night slash. Choice Band Night slash. And that is only for chandy's trap/revenge set. Ever had a subCM Chandy double switch onto your Blissey as you attempted to wall something? Oops. Unlike Magnezone, this thing probably won't stop at only killing two pokemon. Better hope tyranitar and heatran are still alive, or that chandy wasn't carrying flame charge so that it could avoid being revenged.
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No, this really sounds overreacted. Choice users would fall or be much more overpredicting, but chandy is easily killed thanks to it's numerous common weaknesses. And using a choiced fighting attack when you can see a chandelure on the opponents team (assuming it's released and widely used) is completely your fault.

edit: and if it carries a scarf then it becomes easy to kill after a switch, and otherwise it's speed will get it killed
 
Pwnemon said:
I played DW until around June. I know exactly what shadow shandy is capable of, alphatron. you're making it sound worse than it is.
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You know what? Perhaps I am. I quit dreamworld once I found out that Ninetales, politoed, and dragonite were released and that I didn't have to put up with him anymore. From my experience back then it can be handled, just like every other threat. But honestly, it's a bit too much and by simply existing, it turned several matches into a game of prediction, one in which you'd lose the game if you predicted wrong just once. I think he's more of a bannable pokemon that anything that was banned post Round 2.

I'm not talking about choice scarf chandelure specifically or chandelure's sweeping capabilities. And there is no team preview on POs server in dreamworld.

And perhaps I'm not being clear. The thing that makes shadow tag chandelure so dangerous is how it caters to every single pokemon that has been nominated for ubers, so well. All it does is limit options. Sure, that's what most of the OU pokemon do to inferior options, but this is different.
 
Alpha, the thing about the SubCM + Flame Charge set is that it's either walled (literally) by Flash Fire Pokés, or Normal-types (or Steel- and Water-types if you use HP-Ice for better neutral coverage).. I've always felt Timid Scarf is the best set for any Chandelure, to revenge-kill pretty much any un-Scarfed thing that isn't named Tyranitar or Snorlax. Obviously works without Shadow Tag, but its usefulness diminishes if it uses FF (as we all know).
 
Alpha, the thing about the SubCM + Flame Charge set is that it's either walled (literally) by Flash Fire Pokés, or Normal-types (or Steel- and Water-types if you use HP-Ice for better neutral coverage).. I've always felt Timid Scarf is the best set for any Chandelure, to revenge-kill pretty much any un-Scarfed thing that isn't named Tyranitar or Snorlax. Obviously works without Shadow Tag, but its usefulness diminishes if it uses FF (as we all know).
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Empoleon isn't killed by chandy any day unless there's a flash fire boost from experience.
 
Spork said:
A guaranteed kill 100% on a CS electric type is grounds for Ubering or Banning AT Duggy lol
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The guy you replied to missed the point.

A commonly used(And lol'd at) phrase is as follows"Once all of its counters and checks are gone, it can sweep". Now, name any sweeper. it'll almost always be beaten down by some kind of trapping chandelure. T-tar is the only one that isn't, of course, but everything else is GG. This is just about every counter to dory, by the way. (Don't mention balloon pokemon-those are shit checks.) The only one that isn't trapped and fucked is azumarill, and that's shaky check at best because it can be stalled out rather easily, especially if you switch into ferrothorn and let iron thorns eat it out.

As alphatron sais, it kills anything your team has problems with. Anything.
In fact, it's crazy good for stall and offense, in a douchey way. And if you say "shed shell", well goodbye choice pokemon, goodbye anything that wants to heal, and goodbye toxic orb gliscor. Anything else that wants to run shed shell? Nattorei wants no regeneration except leech seed? Breloom wants no toxic orb? Need i go on?
 
Yea, I have no idea how Dream World players put up with Shadow Tag Chandelure. If that shit gets released, Ttar would be pretty much be a must to kill it. It sounds extremely bitchy.
 
So what exactly does Chandelure do in OU? I'm trying to get a feel for what exactly this thing should be doing.

I came up with this set, it's a little risky but I can imagine it working well.

Chande-Lure
Chandelure (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sunny Day / Calm Mind / Substitute
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

As much as Tyranitar is considered the end-all counter to this thing, Chandelure actually does 73.3% - 87.1% to 252 HP / 76 SpD Tyranitar with HP Fighting alone in Sandstorm even. So as I'm looking at this thing, without Shadow Tag, Choice Scarf/Specs seems to actually be it's worst options.

It's so good at luring in and stomping it's own counters, Tyranitar being the biggest one, that I can't even understand why Choice Scarf/Specs is so popular. I mean look; it switches in on Ferrothorn practically for free unless it catches a stray T-Wave which unfortunately is the LAST thing you want Chandelure to switch in on, it uses Sunny Day as Tyranitar switches in to clear the weather as Sand Stream will active before Sunny Day or Calm Mind. Both allow you to OHKO Tyranitar but Sunny Day clears the weather for the rest of the battle as well as helping against Rain, even turning every SubBulk-up Toxicroak into a free switch-in. Politoed doesn't exactly enjoy a STAB Shadow Ball to the face from the Pokemon with the highest Special Attack of all non-legendary Pokémon.

Using Chandelure as a lure seems like giving Game Freak's localization staff too much credit, but it seems to work.

I still think there's a better use for Chandelure in OU somewhere, but that's the best I could come up with.
 
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