America's Army and the use of media for military recruiting

User 43539

Banned deucer.
For those of you not aware America's Army is free to download video game designed and funded by the US military to be used as a recruitment tool. The makers have officially stated that their reason for making the game was "We want the whole world to know how great the U.S. Army is.".
Furthermore, because it is a free game that can be download online, it has none of the age restrictions that all other games are forced to have, meaning a person of any age can play it.

My question is, do you think it is right for the military to use video games, film, and other forms of entertainment to encourage children and teens to join the military? Furthermore, I'd like to open the debate on the ethicality of military recruitment efforts in general.

I personally think this is should stop immediately. Designing a video game that is specifically made to be pro-military and specifically designed to appeal to those under recruitment age is practically brain washing.

However, I think that in general the portrayals of war in video games need to change. Please note: I am not saying you cannot make games about war. However, I think that the use of fictional wars rather than real wars for video game setting should be used more often; preferably in sci-fi or other non-realistic settings. Somebody playing Halo is far less likely to think about joining the military than somebody playing Modern Warfare. With games like MW2 portraying the military in a positive light, it makes those playing it to think of the military positively. I was especially disgusted with the Medal of Honor reboot; a game set in Afghanistan, a war that is still going on!

Please note: I am not saying we censor violence in games. In fact, increasing the amount of violence might actually be beneficial. Most war games do not accurately portray how violent war is; blood is usually toned down below realistic levels, and we never see civilian deaths, torture, looting, war crimes, or anything else that would reflect badly on the military. This gives an inaccurate picture of war.

In addition there is a similar practice in film. The Pentagon has a policy that they will lend out military equipment to filmmakers for making movies; however the military must approve of the script. This means that making an anti-military war film is virtually impossible because of the costs involved, and that films will always remain pro-military. This also needs to stop.

Finally, I think that military recruiters should be banned from giving presentations at high schools and collages, and recruitment ads should not be allowed on television. That way, children and teens would not be influenced to join the military before they are old enough to make a decision on their own.
Anyway, what are your thoughts on military recruitment, and depictions of the military in media?
 
I think they should be allowed to advertise in whatever way the want to. If somebody can be persuaded to go join the military from a video game, why not let them? It's their choice, it's not like every single member of America's youth is a mindless sheep that can be led into the military from the media, which is what I think a lot of people make it out to be. Coddling people by not letting them see things like that is useless and a waste of time.
As somebody who has no interest in being a member, when I see military media, I don't even think twice about it. However, I'm sure there are people out there who had previous interest/become interested after seeing things like commercials and video games. Who's to say that's not a valid reason for joining the military?
 
The makers have officially stated that their reason for making the game was "We want the whole world to know how great the U.S. Army is."
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I always thought the American Army was the covert name for the Douchebag Agency.

And honestly, most wargames are borderline AO rating, so making them more violent is basically impossible without a lot of bribery of the board.
 
Yeah underneath this entire post is this subtle assumption that joining the military is a terrible thing to do. I'm personally kind of with you and NO WAY IN HELL would I join the military, but for some it can be a potentially rewarding and life-changing experience. That said because the USA runs a volunteer army, they obviously need to advertise and try to draw people in- or would you prefer a draft? Also if you're dumb enough to want to join the army after playing MW2 then you're perfect for cannon fodder honestly.
 
Why is it wrong for the army to recruit? Ultimately the only reason I can think of why someone would want to disallow this is because they are anti-military (or anti-war, whatever), in which case they are free to encourage kids not to join the military.

I, however, think that we should let both sides present their arguments so that kids can make as informed of a decision as possible about whether or not to join the military. I, for one, am never going to join the military unless I truly believe that my country is at risk of being taken over, but I realize that for many it is the right choice of how to live their life.

In addition there is a similar practice in film. The Pentagon has a policy that they will lend out military equipment to filmmakers for making movies; however the military must approve of the script. This means that making an anti-military war film is virtually impossible because of the costs involved, and that films will always remain pro-military. This also needs to stop.
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Quite a few major films about war have been largely anti-war; Platoon, Saving Private Ryan, and Full Metal Jacket jump to mind. I really don't think this is the case at all; in fact, if I had to guess, I'd bet that more major films have been made that are anti-war than pro-war.

I agree that if it were practically impossible to make an anti-war movie that would be a problem. However, I just don't think that is accurate, and so I don't see it as a problem. As in all else, we should strive to portray both the negative and positive aspects of the military in film.

Finally, I think that military recruiters should be banned from giving presentations at high schools and collages, and recruitment ads should not be allowed on television. That way, children and teens would not be influenced to join the military before they are old enough to make a decision on their own.
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They are only allowed to give presentations either by permission of the administration (in a private school) or in public schools, where the same government that pays for the upkeep of the school also pays for the military. If the government wants the military to recruit, that is their right; after all, they are providing the schooling.

Recruitment ads are a little more tricky, but it's not like they show them on Cartoon Network. They are almost exclusively shown on channels meant for adults, like TNT or Fox (well, Fox is meant for adults anyway...). Besides, it's not like they are being told to join the military...they are simply being persuaded by an ad. Why is the military trying to convince them to join any different from some Billy Mays wannabe trying to convince them to buy a slap chop for 19.99+Shipping and Handling? It's not like the military will accept kids who are under the age of 18, and by then they are old enough to make their own decisions so long as they have been informed of both sides of the argument.

In short, why do you want fewer people to join the military? I think that's the real heart of this issue: some people hate the military because they believe that supporting the military=supporting war, and so propose disproportionate restrictions on the military in comparison to any other organization. I think at the core of this is an ideological debate about whether or not we should be for or against the military in general; I'd rather not get into that, but I guess I'll just say that I think that people should be as well-informed of both the risks and possible rewards of joining the military as possible so that they can make their own decisions.

I mean, think about it this way: by not allowing kids to hear the pro-military view, we are in essence brainwashing them to hate the military. Kids have to hear both sides of the argument in order to make an informed decision later on, in terms of the military just as in all things.
 
There's nothing wrong with the United States recruiting people for the military; They can use advertising campaigns just like anyone else, and the people to whom the advertisements are aimed at can make their own decision. It's not like it's terrible to join the Army - it can be the experience of a lifetime, just as Smith said.
 
I've actually heard the game sucks pretty hard so not a lot of people are going to download it. It's too realistic apparently. Realistic war games suck. If they were to endorse Halo or CoD or something, then you would probably have shit to worry about.
 
Alan said:
I've actually heard the game sucks pretty hard so not a lot of people are going to download it. It's too realistic apparently. Realistic war games suck. If they were to endorse Halo or CoD or something, then you would probably have shit to worry about.
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Honestly the worst fucking shooter I've ever played.
That's about all I can contribute. I don't understand why they don't do more teaming up with halo/cod etc ie actual games that aren't shit and people like.
 
VirtualKaraokeCircusAct said:
I don't understand why they don't do more teaming up with halo/cod etc ie actual games that aren't shit and people like.
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because then people like SRS would be up in arms about how people are trying to brainwash kids, convincing them that military service is fun, similar to videogames, and not giving a proper portrayal of the experience etc etc

not without reason, mind you, if you're gonna try to portray war, you may as well do it realistically

then again if realism's not the reason that it sucks and it's actually just a shitty game than that's their fault for doing a half assed job
 
About whether the game sucks or not, I have serveral acquaintances who would tell you otherwise. I'm in a group that mostly hangs on MW2 right now, but before that came along the clan was with AA2 and they were really good at it. People actually scrim on it still apparently. But yeah, AA3 is sorta old now and I heard it sucks compared to the second one. In terms of gameplay quality, yeah, I guess it isn't like Battlefield, but what can you do when the game is free?

And though it may seem strange to use a game to advertise the Army and boost recruitment numbers, it's really up to the people themselves if they want to join or not.
 
Okay it's news to me that their are three, I've only played the one that came out around the time when cod4/mw1.
It might have come out before that or something. That's when I played it.

I never played online or anything. I didn't even know you could, I was playing on a friends computer. But playing through the story was awful. I was writing tests before anything happened. Game felt kind of clunky and slow, with no motivation to keep playing. But this isn't really a discussion of the game and I'm certainly no expert on it.
 
As it stands it seems that the audience that recruitment efforts focus on is old enough to make a decision on their own. Until there's a Nick Jr. show about military life I probably won't be too worried.

As far as brainwashing goes I'm not sure if games have that much of an effect. I was completely addicted to Advanced Wars when I was younger and I have no desire to join the military today. I think AW would count as a game that portrays war in a positive light.
 
There's a misconception with the OP - Modern Warfare 2 did not make the Americans the good guys who save the day; in fact, it was the British who took down the bad guy (Gen. Shepherd, who actually was the leader of the Army Rangers at the start of the game. "Private Allen, Ranger lead the way!"

I actually want to see, download, and play this game simply because I've been thinking about joining the army after I turn 18. The chance to serve and honor my country would actually mean a lot to me. I'm not so sure that it's brainwashing considering it isn't mandatory and you can (and should) quit whenever you like and violent, war-based video games aren't made to try to convince people to join the army - they're for fun.
 
For the record, the military is usually portrayed in a positive light in most games as a beacon of good in world filled with evil. Even the OPs point about Halo is wrong, in Halo the military is there to fight off an alien overtake and plot to destroy earth with their Halo device. (CoD series: fight against various factions such as terrorists, Nazis and the VC; Halo series: Aliens; Army of 2: terrorists; Gears of War: different aliens) Also, your OP sounds like you are clearly anti-military/war so why would you want more war to be portrayed when you are against it?

Finally, I think that military recruiters should be banned from giving presentations at high schools and collages, and recruitment ads should not be allowed on television. That way, children and teens would not be influenced to join the military before they are old enough to make a decision on their own.
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It's not like recruiters are going around forcing kids to join the military and sodomizing those who don't. Most kids by the time they are in high school are aware of whether or not they are going into college and are therefore capable of making a decision to join the military. I had a recruiter talk to me, at my mother's beckoning, about joining the Marines, but I basically politely told him "no thanks, I'm kind of afraid of dying and if I was in the Marines I wouldn't want to be at a desk job, so I'll just take my chances at college." Also, when you are in college (not collage) you are an adult and if you aren't fully aware of what joining the military entails, than just give up, because life is way harder than that.

Please note: I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying your argument is pretty dumb.
 
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Make sure you take much more than a video game into account before joining the military (I'm not suggesting that you won't, but just putting it out there!). Speak to as many active duty members or veterans as you can and definitely consider going the officer route rather than the enlisted (ie consider the academies or ROTC if your grades are good enough).

I will also let you know that the military does involve a lot of brainwashing, for efficiency's and safety's sake. That's not to say that everybody in the military is a robot -- I'm not sure what misconception I had before joining but I do remember being surprised how normal and plain human military members are (after intro training was over of course and you get to know them in their non-yelling-at-you state) -- but it is there simply because there is only one way for the military to be run. You either do what is expected of you or get out.

Also, for those that feel that joining the military is inherently bad, read a book and get a life. Even if your reason for disliking it is because you feel that we're all simple killers, understand that for any civilian job, there is a military equivalent. I don't remember the exact numbers, but iirc there's 25-30 non-infantry marines to support one infantry marine. The military offers good careers, a structured lifestyle, and great benefits.
 
I like the idea of making video games more realistic but really. Do you honestly think they could make a Nazi death camp (or Bosnia, for more modern times) level with Call of Duty graphics and not have the game end up adult only. I suppose they could do something similar to the MW2 airport level...but still...
 
i agree with every word of the OP

to basically farm children and teens (the latter being even more impressionable than the former in cases like this) like this is nothing short of disgusting

i'm pretty anti-military in general but even if it were a cause i was in favour of i would still be unhappy with the practices used for recruitment. however, it's not as though i consider it inherently worse than most other advertising; it's not like i'm less disgusted by beauty ads aimed at self-conscious young girls.

i'd say more but i'd just look silly since i'd just be rehashing everything in the op!!!
 
Call of Duty is designed to be fun, not realistic. Realistically, war sucks in general, but if you go out and make a game that sucks on purpose to be more realistic, well, your game sucks, and no one wants to buy it. Certainly it's painting an unrealistic picture, but they're making money, what do they care.
 
The thing is actually well back when I played you could just get shot. Yeah shot and then lose hp nothing more. Usually any bullet that hits you immobilises you but not in this supposed to be realistic game, when you are lucky you will bleed to death. That's the good part about realism. Cough this game tries and tries not to be realistic. It is a good balance for the stupid. Boosting the feeling of invulnerability makes people do silly things such as putting their life at risk.
 
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