Look Ma, No Hands! ~Machamp Discussion

Elminster12

dpmfa068.png

#68, Machamp
http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/068.shtml
Last one was in October, and seemed to be more about No Guard than Machamp, so I think everyone's favorite nuclear mutation with four arms is overdue for his own discussion thread.

Base Stats: 90HP/130ATK/80DEF/65SA/85SD/55SPD
He's always had a monstrous attack stat and decent defenses, but the speed has always held him back, and may doom him in the hyper-offensive D/P metagame.

Abilities
Guts- When Machamp is inflicted with a status condition, it's attack is raised by 50%.
No Armor- All attacks when Machamp is in battle have 100% accuracy

Notable Movepool(STAB in bold)
Physical
Cross Chop
Focus Punch
Dynamic Punch
Close Combat
Low Kick(I guess)
Return/Frustration
Double-Edge(FRLG tutor)
Earthquake
Facade
Stone Edge
Rockslide
Poison Jab
Fire Punch
Ice Punch
Thunder Punch
Bullet Punch
Counter(technically, I guess)

Special(lol, special Machamp no weak!)
Focus Blast
Fire Blast

Support
Substitue
Rest
Sleep Talk
Endure
Toxic
Protect
Bulk-Up
Focus Energy
Light Screen

I'm a total noob and am pretty much starting this because I like this guy and want to see him discussed, so I won't try and suggest movesets or especially EV spreads(I'm a math noob too). As far as I can tell, his biggest problem will be getting in in one piece....sure, his defenses aren't bad, but 55 base speed doesn't outrun much. He does; however, have some interesting support options. Sleep Talk is great for Guts abuse and Light Screen might help him and his teammates hang around. He also gained the elemental punches, which gives him a lot of variety. Bullet Punch may be pretty nice on him....even if the typing sucks, a finisher with 130 base attack is nothing to scoff at. Fire Blast allows him to screw with Skarm, which simply isn't as important anymore, but worth something I guess.

Alright, I think I'll yield the floor to wiser battlers...
 
If No Armor really means "all battlers" than this could be interesting in 2v2 with OHKOs for sure.

At the same time, watch out for OHKOs hitting you too.
 
Damn, I was going to make a discussion for him today actually. He's a pretty nifty Pokemon and hurts a lot. The major question with him is No Guard versus Guts, really. Guts Cross Chop / Stone Edge hits everything in the game for at least neutral, save the Nidos and Toxicroak. No Guard is just nice for never missing, annoyers can go to hell, lol.
 
quinnydinny said:
No armor and Dynamic Punch is awesome for the 100% accuracy and 100% confusion rate.
Click to expand...

Dynamicpunch's main use IMO is on Stealth Rock teams since the opponent, should they not want to be annoyed to hell, needs to switch out afterwards. Otherwise Cross Chop is superior, 25% crit rate.
 
I think dynamic punch vs cross chop is very much up to preference, personally i prefer confusion. This is a set i've been fancying:

Machamp @ Life Orb
No armor
Adamant nature (+atk - spA)
EVs: 252 HP / 48 atk / 208 spd
- Dynamic Punch
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Scary Face

3 Good attacks that hurt just about everything in the game neutrally. Scary Face on the switch makes you faster than even max speed aerodactyl and therefore lets you chose the best attack rather than predict it. Has some advantages over using substitute, notably you don't lose health. I imagine some choice scarf users may still outspeed it so either put more into speed or put them into attack and just go with sub. With stealth rock or spikes however, scary face is more successful at forcing a switch.
 
Machamp (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Cross Chop
- Stone Edge
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

I love this set, awesome Tar counter.
 
Machamp has just enough defenses to make it a reliable switch into Heracross and Tyranitar. The following EV spread allows it to survive max damage choice band adamant Rhyperior earthquake + stealth rock and sandstream damage: 108 HP/148 Att/252 Def. This generates 348 HP/366 Att/259 Def/146 Spd/206 SD with adamant nature.

Damage breakdowns:

Choice scarf Heracross/383 attack:
Megahorn 27.6%-32.4% (30% mean)
Stone edge 15.4%-18.1% (16.8%)
Close combat 55.2%-64.8% (60%)
Blade test 10.9%-12.8% (11.8%)

Choice band Heracross/523 attack: (assumed jolly)
Megahorn 37.6%-44.2% (40.9%)
Stone edge 21%-24.7% (22.8%)
Close combat 75.2%-88.3% (81.7%)
Blade test 14.8%-17.3% (16.1%)

Choice band Tyranitar/604 attack:
Stone edge 36.2%-42.5% (39.3%)
Crunch 29%-34.1% (31.5%)
Earthquake 48.4%-56.9% (52.6%)

Choice band Rhyperior/624 attack:
Stone edge 37.4%-43.9% (40.6%)
Earthquake 74.7%-87.8% (81.3%)
Megahorn 29.9%-35.2% (32.6%)
Avalanche 30.2%-35.5% (32.8%) 59.9%-70.4% (65.1%)

Gyarados with 1 dance/574 attack:
Waterfall 55.1%-64.8% (60%)
Earthquake 46%-54.1% (50%)
Ice fang 30.1%-35.3% (32.7%)
Stone edge 23%-27% (25%)

With all this in mind, I would opt for cross chop/stone edge/sleep talk/rest @leftovers/no guard. Dynamic punch is a useful alternative to CC but critical hits win battles.

Percentages are slightly skewed because they are based upon decimal values when actual damage will be rounded down to the nearest integer. Remember that sandstream and stealth rock each deal 6.25%. I rarely share EV spreads, so feel happy that I did.
 
Machamp @ Life Orb
No armor
Adamant nature (+atk - spA)
EVs: 252 HP / 48 atk / 208 spd
- Dynamic Punch
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Scary Face
Click to expand...
If you're using this in OU Cresselia will wall you badly and you'll just take Life Orb damage while it Reflects + Moonlights at you
 
Surgo said:
If No Armor really means "all battlers" than this could be interesting in 2v2 with OHKOs for sure.

At the same time, watch out for OHKOs hitting you too.
Click to expand...

I'm fairly sure that, as OHKOs are classed in 'other' moves, they don't recieve the accuracy bonus.

The ReSTalker is the one I'd use; Machamp's reasonably bulky and gets some funky resists, and Guts boosted Cross Chop is going to hurt a lot. The extra PP from Sleep Talking CC and Stone Edge is good, too.
 
If you're going to use No Guard:

Machamp @ Leftovers / Life Orb / Expert Belt
-Cross Chop / Dynamicpunch
-Stone Edge
-Ice Punch
-Fire Punch / Thunderpunch

That is for all out attacking. Leftovers so you aren't screwed over by Sandstream, but the other items work too. Choose moves depending on your team, of course. (Cross Chop is probably better though, because of its Critical Hit rate).

Resttalking Machamp:

@ Leftovers
No Armor
-Cross Chop
-Stone Edge
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

Why No Armor? Because Guts does not activate with Sleep (NB is flawed in that manner; Guts activates with Burn, Poison, and Paralysis). Might as well have your attacks hit then.
 
Machamp (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: No Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 60 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dynamic Punch
- Stone Edge
- Ice Punch
- Bulk Up/Light Screen

With those Evs, you won't get 2KOed by Tyranitar's CB Stone Edge, Bulk Up is hard to use but it's kinda a filler, replace it with Light Screen if you are affraid of Azelf.

I'm not an expert on Machamp, but this set could work??, i don't want it to be a overspecialized Tyranitar counter, i want to hurt more things than Tar.
 
Jibaku said:
If you're using this in OU Cresselia will wall you badly and you'll just take Life Orb damage while it Reflects + Moonlights at you
Click to expand...
Well I wouldn't intend to keep it in against any psychic type no matter what set i was using, i don't think Cresselia would like switching into stone edges either. I think the set i suggested could work in OU but the more i think about it think it would be better subbing. That way i deal with choice scarf better and i can put a shit load of EVs into attack to make up for the life orb going (i would put lefties on with sub always).
 
I dunno, but I just don't like Life Orb on this thing. Choice Band or Expert Belt are better options (AND LEFTOVERS). The 10% loss in HP isn't worth the power IMO, especially since this thing is slow. And Cresselia can switch into Stone Edge faierly easily thanks to it's base 120 HP/Def. Of course, the other sets would still be walled by this thing but at least they aren't losing HP every turn just because it attacked

RestTalk is the best set IMO
 
Ekul Yen said:
I'm fairly sure that, as OHKOs are classed in 'other' moves, they don't recieve the accuracy bonus.
Click to expand...
OHKOs are classed depending on the move. Horn Drill is considered physical. Also, OHKO moves aren't affected by No Armor because they have no base power iirc.
 
Too slow, few useful resistances and defenses not good enough. Needless to say, it packs a punch. It's probably not gonna go anywhere with that shameful 55 stat in Speed. Oh well, UU he goes.
 
I am far too much of a coward to try using him in OU with that Speed but I really love his trait - I would be really torn with a 100% Accurate Cross Chop and it's elevated critical hit rate vs. 100% Dynamicpunch, but I'd be really tempted to use the later - it bypasses most of why moves like Confuse Ray aren't good in that it does great damage in addition to the assured confusion.

I'd probably use the sleeptalk set if anything but I sure hate the thought of not being able to pick my moves in a metagame like this is shaping out to be - although I suppose it's easy to see what move I'm using with a dead Machamp...
 
Uhhh did someone forget to mention the AS set?

Machamp @ Adherence Scarf
No Armor
Adamant / Jolly Nature
~Stone Edge
~Dynamicpunch / Cross Chop
~Earthquake
~Elemental Punch / Poison Jab

you could fit Focus Blast or Fire Blast on this set too because neither is crippled by its accuracy anymore (you'd obviously change the nature if that decision was made) but i would personally rather keep Machamp Physical. The decisions are up to preference, in fact you could even go with Rock Slide for some flinchax but hat is simply not nearly as useful as Stone Edge is.


the 252 stats:

AS Machamp (Adamant)
--Attack = 394
--Speed = 315

or if 315 isnt enough for ya,

AS Machamp (Jolly)
--Attack = 359
--Speed = 345


this thing is dominant with AS; i expect frequent use in BL or possible OU tiering.
 
I actually came up with a very similar EV spread to McGraw's, but wasn't sure about its usefulness since most CB Heracross that I see are Adamant, along with being 2HKOed by Gyarados' Waterfall.
 
Stalk Champ is awesome. Unfortunately, the 4x resists of Lucario make it better at walling TTar. Well, MAchamp isn't weak to EQ or Close Combat. Also, if you use Machamp you must abuse No Guard Dynamicpunch.
 
Hyra said:
Stalk Champ is awesome. Unfortunately, the 4x resists of Lucario make it better at walling TTar. Well, MAchamp isn't weak to EQ or Close Combat. Also, if you use Machamp you must abuse No Guard Dynamicpunch.
Click to expand...

No Guard Dynamicpunch is really only for teams with nice Thunder Wave support and Stealth Rock, as you need to parafusion them and dissuade them from switching really for confusion to be at its best. Otherwise I'd opt for Cross Chop.
 
I could see this thing really making some pokemon cry with the choice scarf set. I might try it out.

Also, paralysis + confusion from dynamicpunch + rock slide would be almost as good as Togekiss flinchhaxing. Shame it doesn't get thunder wave, but you could run a body slam/dynamicpunch/rock slide/filler (scary face? good idea maslada) set, obviously without the advantage of the choice scarf. You'd have to get lucky since Machamp isn't a tank, but think how obnoxious it could be.
 
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