Hazards + SubCM Chandelure = GG (peaked #15)

ShinyAzelf

ShinyAzelf

is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Hi all,

This is my UU RMT that has been doing above my expectations on the ladder, but there are definitely things that could be worked on. I am not retiring this team, nor am I just posting this team to show off my ranking, as #15 when no one is laddering for reqs is still kinda pathetic. I'm pretty sure I could ladder higher, but I might as well RMT this now so I can get some solid advice first. Thanks in advance for rating!

68.png

Machamp (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Atk / 8 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- DynamicPunch
- Ice Punch
- Payback
- Bullet Punch


Machamp is usually the Pokemon I lead with, having good matchups with many Pokemon, and having the almighty DynamicPunch which not only gets STAB, but also a 100% confusion rate, making it hard for opponents to switch in. Ice Punch is mainly for Roserade, who often tries to put me to sleep with Sleep Powder, and other Flying-type Pokemon such as Gligar and Zapdos. Payback is extremely useful when I am facing a Pokemon weak to DynamicPunch, as they often switch to their Ghost-type, which gets nailed by Payback. Bullet Punch is for priority, and is also useful in checking weakened Pokemon if the need arises.


623.png


Chandelure (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Flamethrower
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind


Chandelure is such a powerhouse, especially the SubCM set in my opinion. Substitute on something that it can force out / can't break the substitute, then get ready to watch your opponent get screwed over. Calm Mind is useful for boosting its Special Attack and Special Defense, allowing it to hit much harder, while also making its Substitutes harder to break. Flamethrower and Shadow Ball have good coverage, and are chosen because of the STAB boosts the attacks receive.


237.png

Hitmontop (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Pursuit
- Rapid Spin
- Mach Punch


Probably the weak link on my team, but still useful in so many ways. Intimidate makes physical attackers piss weak, and makes it much easier for my other Pokemon to take their attacks as well. Close Combat is for STAB, and hits some Pokemon for decent damage (actually not really, its pretty weak <_<). The only reason I have Pursuit is to have a consistent way of breaking Chandelure's Substitutes, preventing them from setting up, allowing my Flygon to revenge kill. Rapid Spin is so useful, because it spins away hazards which quite a number of my teammates hate (Chandelure hates Stealth Rock, pretty much everyone bar Flygon hates Spikes). Mach Punch is for checking weakened Pokemon (and by mean weakened, I mean REALLY weakened). For example, Hitmontop does not KO offensive Zapdos at 7% with Mach Punch. I might replace this with another spinner. Suggestions?

410.png

Roserade (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 136 SDef / 4 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Spikes
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Rest


Roserade is my Spiker, and it sure does its job well. It forces a number of Pokemon out (mainly bulky Waters), allowing it to set up layers of Spikes. Giga Drain and Sludge Bomb are quite strong, as it comes off of a base 125 Special Attack stat, further boosted by STAB. Rest allows me to heal back to full health, and Natural Cure means Roserade will be awake once it switches out. However, I find myself rarely using Rest, though when I do, it is extremely useful.


398.png


Empoleon (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Grass Knot
- Roar

Empoleon is my Stealth Rocker, and is also the Pokemon I go to take most Special attacks. Scald is for STAB, and the burn rate is always nice. Grass Knot hits some bulky waters for good damage, but I am considering a replacement (suggestions!!). Roar is very useful, allowing me to phaze Chandelure's behind a Substitute, and stat boosters in general, and with an EV spread geared towards boosting its special bulk, it really takes those special attacks well.

330.png

Flygon (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Stone Edge

Finally, the revenge killer! Choice Scarf Flygon is useful in many ways. 56 HP EVs allow me to live something, can't remember what. U-turn is a great move, scouting opponents, and easily forces switches, racking up entry hazard damage. Earthquake is a great STAB move, but I rarely use it unless I really need something dead, or when all the Ground-immune Pokemon on the opposing team is dead. Outrage is great for late game sweeps, and with hazard damage, it becomes extremely effective at doing so. Finally, Stone Edge hits Flying-types for good damage, but I may consider a replacement.

The biggest threat to my team is:

65.png
Magic Guard Alakazam is a fucking bitch, and its really annoying to my team. It bypasses hazard damage, doesn't take anything from Life Orb damage, and this is PRECISELY the only way I can deal with it.

Switch Empoleon into Psychic / Psyshock.

Go to Flygon to take a Focus Blast (which does like 70%).

U-turn to force it out or hopefully kill it.

Hitmontop and Machamp can kill it if its weakened, but like I said, Hitmontop is weak as fuck. Machamp can do a decent amount with Bullet Punch though. And I think Empoleon can take one Focus Blast and do like 40%ish with Scald.

Anyways, this is my team. Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for rating!

- (farmer) ShinyAzelf


Machamp (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Atk / 8 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- DynamicPunch
- Ice Punch
- Payback
- Bullet Punch

Chandelure (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Flamethrower
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind

Hitmontop (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Pursuit
- Rapid Spin
- Mach Punch

Roserade (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 136 SDef / 4 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Spikes
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Rest

Empoleon (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Grass Knot
- Roar

Flygon (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Stone Edge
 
ShinyAzelf is noob like crap.

Run 4 HP EVs on Chandelure so you die in four SR switch-ins instead of five.
Use all your 510 EVs on Machamp.
Run max speed + Adamant nature on Flygon just to be cool.
Run Synthesis or Leech Seed on Roserade instead of Rest.
Run Sucker Punch instead of Mach Punch on Hitmontop.
Run Ice Beam instead of Grass Knot on Empoleon.

Lacking a physical wall, do you not have trouble with physical sweepers? I can see Cobalion getting a Swords Dance on Empoleon or Roserade, and then doing a huge amount to your team. You've also got 3 Psychic + Flying weaknesses and only one resist too, idk if that's troubled you. Also looks like Electric sweepers like Zapdos and Rotom-F in hail (or Raikou, if it catches a Flygon switch-in with HP Ice) can stomp your team, too, although I haven't any idea how to handle them.
 
In addition to Alakazam, bulky Nasty Plot Togekiss is an absolute nightmare for this team. Flygon locked into Earthquake is a free setup and if Empoleon isn't at near-perfect health, down it goes to a +2 Aura Sphere; from there, you're swept pretty easily. imo, Machamp is the odd man out on this team; he's redundant with Hitmontop, and you don't want a Pokemon with longevity as bad as his on a semi-stall team like this. Try dropping Champ for a Scarf Rotom. He beats Togekiss comfortably and with some pivot switching from Empoleon, you can come in on Alakazam's Focus Blast to nab the Shadow Ball KO. As a bonus, Rotom + Chandelure forms the infamous dual ghost combo to defeat opposing Foresight Hitmontop; this makes beating stall teams alot easier.

Rotom @ Choice Scarf | Timid | 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Volt Switch | Shadow Ball | Thunderbolt | Trick

As a backup check to Alakazam, try Sucker Punch over Mach Punch on Hitmontop. Also, if you make the Rotom change and don't want to use two Scarfers, try running a mixed set on Flygon - with hazard support, it blows past its physical counters and then runs through the weakened opponent. Try these changes out, I think they'll help. gl
 
You can use ScarfKrookodile, to get rid of alakazam. Also, it works quite similar to flygon.

The problem then is that Krookodile has bad sinergy with empoleon, and your team will have 2 ground weaknesess and no resistance. I think machamp is most of a filler on your team so you can change him too to use another pokemon.

Good Luck SA :D

--And please, put all the evs lol ahhahaha

P.S: just a silly question but, do you manage to finish your battles? I have reached in twenty minutes 1200 ladder with an alt, and almost everybody (everyone i battled to, except 1) forfeited when i was winning lol. Is cool for laddering, but not for testing thought. I ask to know if I am the only one who is feeling this lol.
 
Just gonna say that Sucker Punch over Mach punch on Hitmontop is going to greatly improve your situations vs Alakazam. (unless of course its some sub variant, which your team is screwed either way against...)
 
I sense a common theme in weaknesses, you're weak to (obviously) Alakazam as well as (if you think about it) Fire-types. Your only Pokemon that can reliably switch into Darmanitan or other Chandelure is of course your own Chandelure. Flare Blitz does a monstrous amount of damage to Flygon and is definitely far from a surefire check with longevity and Darma obviously will have Earthquake or Rock Slide for Chand. No one is going to spam Choice Fire-type attacks when Chandelure is around.

On the other hand, as much as it sucks, I'd probably recommend you get rid of Machamp for Snorlax. Restalk WW Body Slam Snorlax would solve every one of your problems, and frankly Machamp brought nothing special to your team (besides damage, but it's not that important overall). Hitmontop covers all of the resistances Machamp would anyway.

Other than those weaknesses, the team is pretty solid. Nice job!
 
Heysup is right, removing Machamp for Snorlax would greatly benefit your teams weakness to Chandelure and Alakazam. Machamp's like the spirit of this team so removing him doesn't well with me. IDK its up to you if you want to remove champ or simply retire this team period (#15 is not a bad score)

With that said, awesome team. Chandelure and Toxic Spikes go together like peanut butter and jam :)
 
I agree with DestinyUnknown's suggestion of Krookodile over Flygon. This lets you pursuit Alakazam pretty easily while also playing the same general role as Flygon. This leaves you with a ground "weakness" but I think it's more of a paper weakness than a real one. Hitmontop and Spikes should do well enough handling earthquakes.

Also please please please please change Machamp's moveset. I get depressed every time I see a set designed to beat certain dedicated leads in dpp used in bw. 90% of the time lum berry and bullet punch aren't doing anything for you. Switch them for leftovers and substitute respectively and give Stone Edge a shot over Payback. 100% accuracy Stone Edge is my favorite part about Machamp by far.
 
Okay, so I'm definitely going to give RestTalk Snorlax a try over Machamp. I don't even know why the hell Machamp has less than 508 EVs, it was probably just me being retarded. Banedon, I'll also try some of those changes you listed there. I will try Sucker Punch > Mach Punch on Hitmontop, and Scarf Krookodile with Flygon.

Thank you everyone!
 
I personally think Toxic Spikes is better on Roserade since you can really fuck over Special walls with Sub/CM Chandelure. Most of Chandelure's counters get completely dicked by Toxic Spikes, especially Porygon2 because you're running Flash Fire instead of Flame Body. I would also suggest that you give offensive Rose a try (Toxic Spikes / Sleep Powder / Leaf Storm / Sludge Bomb @ LO). If you don't like it, just switch back to your old spread. So many Roserades I see these days (including yours) don't use much speed, you know I'm going to laugh when I outspeed your Roserade with Mamoswine or something, when you could easily have won.
 
This is a nice team... good work bro. That being said, let's move to the topic of MG Alakazam, your arch nemesis. I think this can be solved by replacing Mach Punch on Hitmontop with Sucker Punch, destroying Alakazam. Also, add 12 Evs to Machamp's ATK. Godd team and good luck.
 
You should use Fire Blast over Flamethrower, oh wait you told me you were scared of it.
Nice team you have here Farmer. And I don't really see major threats other than that Zam.
 
Bumping, overall, the team's doing better. However, I'm screwed really badly by Curse Cradily. Alakazam is much less of a threat now, which is good, but any solutions to cover Cradily? Without Machamp, its really hard, as Hitmontop's Close Combat is weak.
 
I don't know much about handling Cradily, but shouldn't you implant the changes you've made (Krookodile over Flygon, if that was an official change). I would say Toxic could ware it down, maybe putting toxic on Hitmontop, which also benefits with it against bulky ghost types or bulky things in general.
 
Yours is the only team I've seen to switch out Machamp but still have Machamp in the lead position lol.

I do not know what your team looks like now, but if you switched out Flygon for Krookodile and Machamp for Snorlax, and if you're having Cradily problems, you could use a more offensive Snorlax with Pursuit to remove Alakazam, and then use a Scarf Heracross or similar to break through Cradily. Alternatively, you can slot a weather move somewhere, and then try to break through Cradily by pure force. I doubt it's the best idea, but it's an option.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top