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How do you kill this? Rhyperior Discussion.
- Thread starter ADH
- Start date
Damn what a good Rhyhorn, it's Adamant or Impish???
And well it does, Rock Head Ryhorn evolves into a Hard Rock Rhyperior
Eh, nothing really likes switching in on STABbed Crunches and Stone Edges but Steelix and Lucario (and Rhyperior, to be fair), whereas Rhyperior's shares the SE STAB. So it's a question of liking switching into EQs more or Crunches, pretty much, since 416 Atk vs 405 attack is negligable especially when you consider Tyra's 405 Atk is locked in stone but people are talking of giving Rhy HP EVs, but whatever. I talk of just these two STAB moves on both pokes because it by definition becomes "harder" to use CB pokemon the more you have to predict and use your third and fourth moves.
Cresselia is a better candidate for countering Rhyperior than Steelix and Lucario are for countering Tyranitar, imo, because Rhy's third move won't kill it and it has a recovery move. Steelix is a great switch into CB Tar, even EQ, but it won't OHKO Tyranitar with a no Atk EV EQ of its own, and Lucario is frail with 70/70/70 defenses. This still makes the physical "Tyranitar vs Rhyperior" debate borderline, but Tyranitar's trump card (lol) is a STABbed Pursuit, which, CBed, is arguably the best attack in the game since it's risk-free and won't lock you into anything. CB Rhyperior isn't going to replace CB Tyranitar anytime soon.
Clone several. ¬.¬
Also, Rhypherior has a harder time to seep since it's slower than Tyranitar can be (I think DDTar > Rock Polish Rhypherior, but that's just me).
I like Sleep Talker Milo as a counter
CB Rhyperior Earthquake [Max Atk, +Atk Nature] against a Resting Milo (Bold 212 HP, 252 Def, Standard) - 42~49% damage (then you add Lefties recovery and you are completely safe)
And seeing that Impish non max Atk non ChoiceBanded are the standard Rhyperior this is a viable counter.
Impish Swampert works great too, especially if you switch into a Stone Edge (as long as you have Hydro Pump/Surf Swampert)
Acid Armor Vaporeon/Phione deserve a mention :P
CB Rhyperior Earthquake [Max Atk, +Atk Nature] against a Resting Milo (Bold 212 HP, 252 Def, Standard) - 42~49% damage (then you add Lefties recovery and you are completely safe)
And seeing that Impish non max Atk non ChoiceBanded are the standard Rhyperior this is a viable counter.
Impish Swampert works great too, especially if you switch into a Stone Edge (as long as you have Hydro Pump/Surf Swampert)
Acid Armor Vaporeon/Phione deserve a mention :P
I'd imagine Cresselia would have a hard time switching into what are very easily 2hkos.
I was explicitly pointing out the comparison to Tyranitar using its "third move" on Steelix and Lucario, with Rhyperior using its third move on Cresselia. Tyra's CBed EQ kills Lucario every day of the week and does 45-53% on even the most ridiculously defensive 354HP/548Def Steelix, a pokemon that, compared to Cresselia:
1) is guarateed to be slower than the pokemon its supposed to counter
2) has no way of recovering HP itself outside of Protect
3) cannot threaten to OHKO the pokemon its supposed to counter anyway (it does 52-61% on a CBed Tyranitar with its 207 Atk [4EVs] EQ)
Comparing this to Cresselia, who does 103-121% with its Grass Rope to max-HP/min-SpD Rhyperior even with just 4 SpA EVs for 187SpA, you can start to see what I was getting at. Cresselia takes 65-77% from the CBer in question's "third move" in MH, which compares pretty favorably to 45-53% or certain death when you keep in mind, as you must, the three points above, and also both that MH can miss where EQ will not and "lol Steelix" in that Cresselia is generally expected to be more useful in DP competitive play. (and rhyperior's SpD is 146 min not 156)
1) is guarateed to be slower than the pokemon its supposed to counter
2) has no way of recovering HP itself outside of Protect
3) cannot threaten to OHKO the pokemon its supposed to counter anyway (it does 52-61% on a CBed Tyranitar with its 207 Atk [4EVs] EQ)
Comparing this to Cresselia, who does 103-121% with its Grass Rope to max-HP/min-SpD Rhyperior even with just 4 SpA EVs for 187SpA, you can start to see what I was getting at. Cresselia takes 65-77% from the CBer in question's "third move" in MH, which compares pretty favorably to 45-53% or certain death when you keep in mind, as you must, the three points above, and also both that MH can miss where EQ will not and "lol Steelix" in that Cresselia is generally expected to be more useful in DP competitive play. (and rhyperior's SpD is 146 min not 156)
Doesn't Cresselia get Moonlight as its 'recovery move'? Moonlight recovers absolute garbage in Sandstorm, 33% iirc.
The strength of Steelix though is that it will be all 'lol Steelix' provided that you bring it in on Crunch/Stone Edge, but Cresselia does handle Rhyperior better it would seem.
The strength of Steelix though is that it will be all 'lol Steelix' provided that you bring it in on Crunch/Stone Edge, but Cresselia does handle Rhyperior better it would seem.
My only criticism is that if you want to enhance Rhyperior's survivability to its counters, it is better to pump it up with Special Defense instead of HP. My defensive setup (which nobody likes apparently) with 401 HP/190 SDef gets 56-67% from 187 SpAtk Crescelia Grass Rope. A definite 2HKO, but certainly nowhere near OHKO.
If you go with Min HP/Max SD 187 SA Crescelia's Grass rope does 53-64% to Rhyperior. Like I said, still a 2HKO, but with the SD Crescelia's counter status is a lot less reliable since it can't take the second Megahorn hitting.
That may actually be worth it. Like said in one of my earlier posts, I'm maxing speed first and "asking questions later", when we know more about the metagame. If we find that it's not Swampert and Slowbro that are switching in on Rhyperior, your spread may be better. If those indeed are the pokemon who are coming in on Rhyperior more often than Cresselia, it may be better to max speed and attack like I would suggest doing at first. Because those are both pokemon, especially Swampert, who may think that they are Rhyperior counters because they are faster than its min-116 speed even if the CBed EQ they just switched in on did over 53%, and they'll stay in to Surf but actually die because they were indeed slower., and Rhyperior will still be at 100% HP (or whatever it was at two turns prior barring what hail).
I personally have never really found it in a Choice Band pokemon's best interests to be sticking around after the first hit unless there was absolutely no risk in doing so. That risk hinges virtually 100% on whether or not it outspeeds the pokemon it's currently in on, and to a lesser extent stuff like whiffing with a CBed EQ on something like a switched-in Belly Zard or using a CGed Thunderbolt on a switched-in Electivire's Motor Engine. But in general, I would favor power and speed on CB pokemon because you don't want them taking or switching in on hits that will hamper them from the rest of the battle. Best case scenario is your Rhyperior is at like 44% HP since you hit twice in a row with Megahorn and it Grass Roped, but it can just Moonlight until you miss (expecting you to have switched). I would rather send something like CB Weavile in to take 19-22% from Grass Rope or Switch in on a Reflect I can CH through with Blade Test or a Moonlight that lets me Pursuit.
I personally have never really found it in a Choice Band pokemon's best interests to be sticking around after the first hit unless there was absolutely no risk in doing so. That risk hinges virtually 100% on whether or not it outspeeds the pokemon it's currently in on, and to a lesser extent stuff like whiffing with a CBed EQ on something like a switched-in Belly Zard or using a CGed Thunderbolt on a switched-in Electivire's Motor Engine. But in general, I would favor power and speed on CB pokemon because you don't want them taking or switching in on hits that will hamper them from the rest of the battle. Best case scenario is your Rhyperior is at like 44% HP since you hit twice in a row with Megahorn and it Grass Roped, but it can just Moonlight until you miss (expecting you to have switched). I would rather send something like CB Weavile in to take 19-22% from Grass Rope or Switch in on a Reflect I can CH through with Blade Test or a Moonlight that lets me Pursuit.
That has been confirmed by many already. We don't know if it's 1.3 or 1.5 though.
The whole thread, people have been looking at ways to counter it. Look and read the other pages, those should give you ideas. It's hard for ANYTHING to counter this guy, seriously.
TRE confirmed that Sandstorm gives a 1.5x boost.
I believe CGStarmie can OHKO with Surf, but it can't really switch in. So yeah, with Sandstorm up, I can't think of any truly reliable counter.
I believe CGStarmie can OHKO with Surf, but it can't really switch in. So yeah, with Sandstorm up, I can't think of any truly reliable counter.
Your best bet, like with many many other Choice Banders, is to use multiple Pokemon and predict (or cross your fingers). Bronzong allows for lots of good company against Rhyperior - he resists Earthquake, Avalanche and Stone Edge while being neutral to Megahorn, and he can throw up a Reflect easily or Hypnosis/Toxic Rhyperior. Just get something like Gliscor and Celebi to go along with it and Rhyperior has a significantly harder time now.
Oh, and you got yourself quite an Ice weakness now, but luckily Bronzong resists that as well and you have 3 slots left!
Oh, and you got yourself quite an Ice weakness now, but luckily Bronzong resists that as well and you have 3 slots left!