Since they can just, like, PM then or VM then or talk on irc, it seems better to nip it in the bud and let would-be cheating happen in front of everyone's face, right?
+Support both of Atheno's points.
-
The leader of this forum is LouisCyphre. The moderators of this forum are JJayyFeather, Mowtom, nightblitz42, TheEver, and TMan87.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Data State of The Game (11/13/2011) - IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT IN POST #233
- Thread starter Seven Deadly Sins
- Start date
- Status
Since they can just, like, PM then or VM then or talk on irc, it seems better to nip it in the bud and let would-be cheating happen in front of everyone's face, right?
+Support both of Atheno's points.
If you want to incorporate spectators into your match (it's been done before with some level of success) that's fine, otherwise the threads can get off topic quickly.
Incidentally Athenodoros, exactly what would people be posting in matches that is so pressing we should actually encourage it? One person shouldn't really be getting cheering posts more than another, and its not fair to one play or or the other to get advice or otherwise clog up the thread. Yes, people can and will seek advice, and others might want to give it to them. In general though posts that aren't the battlers or the refs are off-topic.
I've not decided what to do with released mons, since a lot of them have significant investment. In other ASBs this isn't really a problem since a mon is fully formed out of the box for the most part, bad evolution stage. Mostly I'm struggling with the fact whoever the beneficiary of the mon is gets a huge boon, usually.
Incidentally Athenodoros, exactly what would people be posting in matches that is so pressing we should actually encourage it? One person shouldn't really be getting cheering posts more than another, and its not fair to one play or or the other to get advice or otherwise clog up the thread. Yes, people can and will seek advice, and others might want to give it to them. In general though posts that aren't the battlers or the refs are off-topic.
I've not decided what to do with released mons, since a lot of them have significant investment. In other ASBs this isn't really a problem since a mon is fully formed out of the box for the most part, bad evolution stage. Mostly I'm struggling with the fact whoever the beneficiary of the mon is gets a huge boon, usually.
Athenodoros, I'm pretty sure releasing a Pokémon (as in, deleting it from your profile) is allowed. Why shouldn't it be anyway? Giving away is another matter, with which I pretty much disagree, for the reason spoken out at -Charmander-'s time. Yes it is an unfair advantage, and it is an unneccessary mechanic when you can just delete the Pokémon from your profile.
As for the second point, the last thing I want is someone posting in the middle of my battle. I dunno about you, but I'd be greatly irritated.
As for the second point, the last thing I want is someone posting in the middle of my battle. I dunno about you, but I'd be greatly irritated.
The only mid-battle posts I see as needed are corrections to a ref, which should probably be allowed. Also, for the purposes of getting rid of my Qwilfish I support giveaway or release. That, and how much could it really unbalance? Sure some new players might get good, but theoretically the trainer would still have to deal with that Pokemon if they ever fought the original owner. That, and I find the idea of "competitive balance" a bit vague, and really just an excuse from people who didn't get one of Charmander's strongmons.
This is also not strictly true, if you're weaker than your opponent then you're doing MORE damage if you use a combo than using both attack separated, this works if your attack is weaker than the deffense of your opponent, in unSTABed attacks, and against stuff like screens, bad weather and defense boosts, that's because of how the added BP doesn't count the reduction again
Yes, but due to the offensive nature of ASB, these situations are rather few and far between; even when they are more damage-efficient, they have a horrific energy cost.
So, trample. That's simple, but it should be stated that the damage is calculated normal and then rolls through Substitutes.
"If this attack deals enough damage to a Substitute to break it, the excess damage rolls over to the Substitute user. If the target takes at least 1 point of direct damage from this attack, they are subject to its effect chance."
Make the recipient earn the gift. The recipient could easily be made to hit a given threshold as determined later, such as owning a mon of similar investment or paying a certain TC count. A "release/gift" thread could easily be full of approvers who rate the gifts and decide what trade-off, if necessary, should be required before the recipient can use their gift.
Not really top priority but Metronome really needs a boost
Even if you have the Atk of Chansey you're doing more damage over the first three turns with a choiced move than you're with this, and this doesn't even reduced the increased cost of using a move over and over, also you're kidding yourself if you think you'll get to +10 without dying of energy exhaustion (4+8+12+...+40 = 220 energy) that's without counting on the energy of the move, just the increased energy of it, and with you being unable to chill because you return to square one, well, there's no reason to use this, more when you see you could get any good item with those 20 TC, make it completely eliminate or reduce the energy increase, that the boosts are in +2, +4, etc..., anyting will make it a little more useful than it already is
Data said:
Metronome: Increases the Base Attack Power dealt by consecutive uses of attacks after their first use by one (1) and one (1) more for each additional use up to a maximum of ten (10) uses. (Ex. An attack used twice has +2 BAP, thrice +3, etc.)
Even if you have the Atk of Chansey you're doing more damage over the first three turns with a choiced move than you're with this, and this doesn't even reduced the increased cost of using a move over and over, also you're kidding yourself if you think you'll get to +10 without dying of energy exhaustion (4+8+12+...+40 = 220 energy) that's without counting on the energy of the move, just the increased energy of it, and with you being unable to chill because you return to square one, well, there's no reason to use this, more when you see you could get any good item with those 20 TC, make it completely eliminate or reduce the energy increase, that the boosts are in +2, +4, etc..., anyting will make it a little more useful than it already is
Since SOTG is the thread of complaints, I have two.
Make Moody a "Can Be Enabled" ability, because it's annoying.
And buff Light Ball. Because Anime Style Battling can't have Pikachu being underpowered, and double attacking stats aren't enough for the slow, fragile mouse.
Make Moody a "Can Be Enabled" ability, because it's annoying.
And buff Light Ball. Because Anime Style Battling can't have Pikachu being underpowered, and double attacking stats aren't enough for the slow, fragile mouse.
Another thing that troubles me:
Pain Split is by far the most powerful move in the game.
Obviously this is varies with certain factors, but it is far from impossible for this move to deal up to 50 damage or even more, while restoring that amount of HP. This is completely ridiculous. Destiny Bond and Final Gambit cap at 30 damage and depend on the user fainting. Perish Song outright kills them, sure, but it also takes three rounds to do so, not to mention it has -1 priority and kills teammates. Endeavour exceeds it damage-wise, getting to about 80 (1 hp vs 140 hp = 79 damage) but in the same situation Pain Split will deal 70 damage and restore 70 hp! That makes a difference of 140 hp.
And when you consider some of its users...
That's pretty fucking scary imo.
Most users aren't so fast but many still threatening, so I think this really needs to be looked at.
Pain Split is by far the most powerful move in the game.
Obviously this is varies with certain factors, but it is far from impossible for this move to deal up to 50 damage or even more, while restoring that amount of HP. This is completely ridiculous. Destiny Bond and Final Gambit cap at 30 damage and depend on the user fainting. Perish Song outright kills them, sure, but it also takes three rounds to do so, not to mention it has -1 priority and kills teammates. Endeavour exceeds it damage-wise, getting to about 80 (1 hp vs 140 hp = 79 damage) but in the same situation Pain Split will deal 70 damage and restore 70 hp! That makes a difference of 140 hp.
And when you consider some of its users...
That's pretty fucking scary imo.
Most users aren't so fast but many still threatening, so I think this really needs to be looked at.
Jesseus, a 70 HP Pain Split costs 29 Energy. Keep that in mind.
It is. It's also targeting a completely untouched Blissey. More realistically, it does around 20 to 30 damage under common conditions (targeting a doubles enemy after focus-firing the other, say).
Capping the damage is a reasonable option to prevent it from being used in a Perish Song-like manner (e.g. on an opponent that just switched in after a kill). However, options should be explored to play around that sort of thing before any sort of ruling is made. Notably, it fails when targeting a Substitute.
Capping the damage is a reasonable option to prevent it from being used in a Perish Song-like manner (e.g. on an opponent that just switched in after a kill). However, options should be explored to play around that sort of thing before any sort of ruling is made. Notably, it fails when targeting a Substitute.
I really feel like Pain Split needs to be nerfed somehow, but I have no idea how to do it. One suggestion I thought of (a minor one, but one that is extremely fair IMO) is to make it be unusable if you don't have the energy to use it, ala Selfdestruct and Explosion. It's not much, but it helps prevent a low energy Gengar Pain Splitting a 100 HP Pokemon on its way in. Even then though, Pain Split is really retarded as it currently is. It and Endeavor both, as the only easy way around either is to either be faster or use Protect; Protect can easily be subbed against (which in the case of the former will prevent the change I proposed above from being a problem) and in the latter a fresh Pokemon that is slower will not have a chance to boost their speed.
So, make them -1 Priority, like Perish Song? Sounds good to me.
Alternatively, alter the energy cost to equal the HP exchanged, or at least a larger fraction of it than current.
Alternatively, alter the energy cost to equal the HP exchanged, or at least a larger fraction of it than current.
If this effect is passed by touch, couldn't I give this to an opponent with a successful attack roll?
Requesting clarification.
nah
Another move that was brought to my mind last night was Mean Look: The other 2 Trapping moves, Block and Spider Web, both have a great Secondary effect (Vulnerability to the next move and unable to use Contact moves, respectively), whereas Mean Look is left with "Foe can't switch."
What I would suggest would, in addition, give an additional "Smoke Ball" effect, in that evasive moves are unusable, and the Fly/Dive/Dig that everyone's stressing is broken just got a new counter.
~OR~
Give it an effect similar to Shadow Tag, which means absolutely no running in any way, shape or form, and the 10m Vicinity trap, even if only for 6 actions.
What I would suggest would, in addition, give an additional "Smoke Ball" effect, in that evasive moves are unusable, and the Fly/Dive/Dig that everyone's stressing is broken just got a new counter.
~OR~
Give it an effect similar to Shadow Tag, which means absolutely no running in any way, shape or form, and the 10m Vicinity trap, even if only for 6 actions.
Why wouldn't it work if I touched a foe instead? Is it tied to trainer ownership or something? That would mean I can't Baton Pass to a trainer ally in multi-battles, which I've seen happen several times in ASB.
20 or 30 damage AND 20 or 30 healing, is why its scary though. That is the equivelant of using a recovery move (or better) AND a quite powerful attack in one move.
And note that common conditions can also include: Gengar has just finished off its opponent leaving it at say 10-20 HP, in comes full health Pokemon with say, 100 hp. One Pain Split and suddenly your Gengar's back to a fighting chance.
Guys, one thing which always bugged me since the beginning of ASB are healing moves. Currently, their energy cost is (MAX HP/10) + 2. This means that, the larger the HP stat is, the higher the cost of the move will be. To me, this doesn't make any sense. Or well... it'd make sense, if the healing move actually healed a percentage of HP (say, 20%), instead of a flat 20 HP. But the way it currently works sounds quite silly. Pokémon with lower HP stats will benefit from a recovery move much more than Pokémon with a higher HP stat, because the former are regenerating a larger portion of their HP total. An Alakazam using Recover is healing up 20/90 HP. That's a relevant fraction of its HP (22%). On the contrary, Chansey using Softboiled recovers 20/140 HP. That's a much less impressive fraction of its HP (14%).
So, in the end, what I propose is: either we make Recover and similar moves regenerate 20% of the user's max HP (so to justify the energy cost), or we revamp the energy cost of the move. Because again, the way it works now makes no sense.
So, in the end, what I propose is: either we make Recover and similar moves regenerate 20% of the user's max HP (so to justify the energy cost), or we revamp the energy cost of the move. Because again, the way it works now makes no sense.
You must have missed the part where I said "make it -1 priority, like Perish Song, so that they can Taunt or Sub". What concern about Pain Split wouldn't that fix?
Maybe it's just me, but the "ooooo 999 Gengar learns it, how frightening" argument doesn't carry a whole lot of impact anymore.
If you're ordering first:
Pain Split - filler - filler
IF (Substitute on Pain Split) THEN (idk Roar/Whirlwind/<multi-hit move> and push actions back
IF (Protect on Split) THEN (chill and push actions back)
And it's way too easy if you're ordering second unless they sub against it.
- Status