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NU CCAT Step 4: Playtesting
- Thread starter waterwarrior
- Start date
Thing about DracoSwap Altaria is that there is a lack of potent special threats in the tier, that either threaten it enough to warrent being -2'ed, or don't outright OHKO it with Ice attacks.
IMO, a stall-based Altaria set should be something like the CottonTaria I posted above. Although DracoSwap *could* be used as a form of annoyer I guess. It's viable, yes, but a gimmick none the less.
That said, there's 1001 things Altaria can do. It can even pull a Cleric with Heal Bell!
IMO, a stall-based Altaria set should be something like the CottonTaria I posted above. Although DracoSwap *could* be used as a form of annoyer I guess. It's viable, yes, but a gimmick none the less.
That said, there's 1001 things Altaria can do. It can even pull a Cleric with Heal Bell!
I tried a Heal Bell Cleric Altaria in RU, which completely failed. Maybe it'll work better in NU.
I don't see Altaria as a Pokemon to build a team around, especially the variants provided (Power Swap Draco Meteor? who the fuck uses that.) The DD+2 attacks variant is pretty self-sufficient, only really needing help with stuff like Weezing which can burn you or Clear Smog you to get rid of the boosts. In addition, a stallish mon isn't the kind of mon you base a team around, it's purpose is to cover some specific threat(s) that your main sweeper needs out of the way.
What we need to choose is a Pokemon that gives us a specific end goal. It has to be a Pokemon that throughout the game, a majority of our moves work towards helping it. An example of this is using CB Pinsir to open up holes with Mold Breaker EQ, allowing something like SD Scolipede to wreck the opponent without having to worry about Weezing.
So right there, that leaves out all the Altaria sets posted so far, Kangaskhan (more of a wallbreaker), Metang, Specs Exeggutor (love this set so much but it is merely designed to punch large holes into Pokemon with no recovery), Relicanth (too slow and designed to punch holes into things), and Ursaring (again, too slow to really get in there and sweep since it's pretty easily revenge killed by faster mons).
Here are the Pokemon listed so far that have an end goal in mind of setting up or cleaning up:
Absol (sub or 3 attack, kind of standard)
Vileplume (ugh really? why not Shiftry or Leavanny?)
Swellow (great mon but bog standard)
Miltank (this is a really interesting choice, I like it)
Cinccino (yep excellent mon)
RP Torterra (haven't seen very many as of late but I like it)
Zebstrika (lol so weak unfortunately and its abilities don't help that much)
Of these I really like SubSD Absol (obv), Cinccino, and RP Torterra. I feel like these three mons require a decent amount of team support, but not enough to be totally reliant on the team. They all have certain threats they cannot break through (Weezing mostly, lol), and they need to be paired with Pokemon that CAN break through them. These three will allow us to make a cool CCAT I believe.
What we need to choose is a Pokemon that gives us a specific end goal. It has to be a Pokemon that throughout the game, a majority of our moves work towards helping it. An example of this is using CB Pinsir to open up holes with Mold Breaker EQ, allowing something like SD Scolipede to wreck the opponent without having to worry about Weezing.
So right there, that leaves out all the Altaria sets posted so far, Kangaskhan (more of a wallbreaker), Metang, Specs Exeggutor (love this set so much but it is merely designed to punch large holes into Pokemon with no recovery), Relicanth (too slow and designed to punch holes into things), and Ursaring (again, too slow to really get in there and sweep since it's pretty easily revenge killed by faster mons).
Here are the Pokemon listed so far that have an end goal in mind of setting up or cleaning up:
Absol (sub or 3 attack, kind of standard)
Vileplume (ugh really? why not Shiftry or Leavanny?)
Swellow (great mon but bog standard)
Miltank (this is a really interesting choice, I like it)
Cinccino (yep excellent mon)
RP Torterra (haven't seen very many as of late but I like it)
Zebstrika (lol so weak unfortunately and its abilities don't help that much)
Of these I really like SubSD Absol (obv), Cinccino, and RP Torterra. I feel like these three mons require a decent amount of team support, but not enough to be totally reliant on the team. They all have certain threats they cannot break through (Weezing mostly, lol), and they need to be paired with Pokemon that CAN break through them. These three will allow us to make a cool CCAT I believe.
breh
強いだね
I'm going to bring up what is likely my favorite set in NU.
Cacturne (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 28 Def / 28 SpD
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Sucker Punch
- Drain Punch
- Swords Dance
- Spikes
it's a mix of entry hazards and stupidly strong priority. it has clinched me numerous games that I thought taht I would lose. STAB sucker punch is really an amazing thing.
Cacturne (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 28 Def / 28 SpD
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Sucker Punch
- Drain Punch
- Swords Dance
- Spikes
it's a mix of entry hazards and stupidly strong priority. it has clinched me numerous games that I thought taht I would lose. STAB sucker punch is really an amazing thing.
Offering Magmortar
Magmortar (M) @ Life Orb/Expert Belt
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 16 Atk/ 252 SAtk/ 240 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Cross Chop
My Favorite pokemon in NU last gen comes back in 5th gen same as last gen. Only bulky things like Munchlax and Lanturn can even stop this guy from sweeping.
Magmortar (M) @ Life Orb/Expert Belt
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 16 Atk/ 252 SAtk/ 240 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Cross Chop
My Favorite pokemon in NU last gen comes back in 5th gen same as last gen. Only bulky things like Munchlax and Lanturn can even stop this guy from sweeping.
a) why HP Ice when HP Grass OHKO's Quagsire and does a bunch to Lanturn and Bulky Altaria can take an HP Ice, DD, and KO you with Earthquake
b) why Cross Chop when it hits nothing except Thick Fat Miltank harder than Fire Blast, Mach Punch is more useful for fucking with Absol and picking off stuff with sash
c) Munchlax isn't NU
d) That isn't really a sweeper, it's more of a wall-breaker since Magmortar's job is just to get in, hit shit hard, and get out. It's really not something to build a team around, but it's a really really good offensive support mon since only a couple things can sit around and take hits from it (Regirock, Altaria, Lanturn). Ideally Magmortar should be paired with pokemon that take advantage of those three mons (RP Torterra comes to mind, RP Rhydon as long as it RP's on the switch for Lanturn)
PS: Miltank is cool and all but it's really hard to set up vs offensive teams since it never gets a chance to heal really. Also why not Thick Fat seeing as there are three ghosts used in NU and none are particularly common (Misdreavus, Haunter, Drifblim), and are easily taken advantage of by other teammates.
Does Drain Punch hit anything notable over Seed Bomb? I think power might be more useful than a non-STAB recovery move but that might just be me.
sorry about the double post but my comp wont let me edit, and i got a great set.
linoon@sitrus berry
44hp 252atk 212speed
adamant/gluttony
-sub/shadow claw
-belly drum
-extremespeed
-seed bomb.
sub on a forced switch, prevent status moves
belly drum on the attack and activate sitrus berry...
sweep with a 1048 attack, +2 priority 120bp attack.
linoon@sitrus berry
44hp 252atk 212speed
adamant/gluttony
-sub/shadow claw
-belly drum
-extremespeed
-seed bomb.
sub on a forced switch, prevent status moves
belly drum on the attack and activate sitrus berry...
sweep with a 1048 attack, +2 priority 120bp attack.
Zebstrika is actually really decent despite what people are saying about him. Wild charge+ life orb make give it enough power to motor its way through everything that isn't resistant to it. So neutral mons are gonna be feeling some pain in the morning. Plus, double kick can provide some decent coverage for it if it's at its last legs.
I would much rather use Eelektross because at least I'm not insta-fucked vs Dugtrio, who switches in on Wild Charge, traps, and KO's. Plus, electric attacks don't get thrown around too much because of, again, Dugtrio, so there isn't much you can do to grab a boost unless you do something ballsy like switch into a predicted Magmortar Thunderbolt.
Guys, can we be a bit more careful with out suggestions? We have the same exact CurseTank in post 9. No offense Bluemon, just a notice for everyone.
You didn't even say its good in your own defense...? Ok...
Another thing, please support claims with damage calcs instead of saying "it plows through lots of things". It makes your suggestion a LOT more persuasive and just makes a better suggestion.
Double Kick is weak as hell, I really want to know what you're using it against that it works for you. It does about 40% to offensive Rhydon with no bulk EVs not holding an Eviolite, which will be the main thing its for.
EDIT: Tennisace, thank you so much for all the effort in this thread -gives you a gold star-
breh
強いだね
you'd be surprised at the number of situations in which Drain Punch (as well as its seemingly useless recovery) have been useful. One nice little trait is that it allows you to (if you're ballsy enough) outpredict klinklangs that think you can't do anything to them and gear shift.
otherwise, it ensures you win vs. miltank.
Its now time for my own submission into this CCAT: OTR Slowking! (Who saw this coming from the OP?)
Slowking @ Leftovers/ Life Orb (my personal preference is Lefties)
Regenerator
Quiet (+SpA, -Spe)
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Sp. Atk/ 4 Sp. Def
IVs: 0 Speed
-Trick Room
-Nasty Plot
-Surf
-Psychic/Psyshock
Slowking has made his name in the NU meta as a annoying wall, constantly switching out to regain its health. So what happens when you make a Slowking a very interesting wallbreaker who can sweep late-game? I'm not going to say "durr its god erryone use it now!!11," I'll be honest, it has mixed results. However, when you do have a good match with him, what he does is almost overwhelming. With a -Speed nature and 0 IVs, Slowking reaches a mere 58 Speed, where nothing outspeeds it in TR unless you are a Curse user... With more than 2 under your belt. Before a NP, Slowking has a very respectable 328 Sp. Atk, more than enough to rip holes in major threats. After a NP, its able to break walls like its nothing. Its role does not end after an attacker, however, as it has enough bulk to take the majority of Special hits and can set up TR for the rest of the team.
Sadly, the set is not without its faults. While not exactly Physically frail, it doesn't exactly take hits like a champ from that side. Sucker Punch, a somewhat common move in this tier, destroys him, so support to take out things like Absol is recommended. Jynx also presents a problem because of Dry Skin, but can be taken out through boosts from NP, avoiding Lovely Kiss, or just by the fact that the Jynx might not carry Energy Ball. Another TR abuser is also highly advised, as it does not always survive the 5 turns of TR (although it usually does).
Some calcs to show its power (all taken after one NP):
Surf vs Max/ Max Sassy Mesprit (like anyone uses that, but still): 54.4-64.3%
Surf vs Max/ Max Careful Eelektross: 63.37-74.6%
Surf vs Offensive CM Gardevoir at +1: 60.8-71.6%
Psychic vs Max/ Max Sassy Eviolite Roselia: 66.1-78%
So as you can see, it can 2HKO every defensive threat in the Top 10 except for Slowking.
Offensive teams momentum is destroyed by the loss of their Speed, and the fact that they don't carry much bulk doesn't help.
EDIT: I don't know why I didn't bring this up earlier, but for those of you who are looking back during voting, this Slowking makes an excellent check for Klinklang. +1 Return does an average of ~51%, allowing you to narrowly avoid the 2HKO and set up TR. after this, the opponent will either Gear Shift again or go for another Return (which, as I said, does not normally KO), which allows you to get up a NP, destroy the gears with Surf and enjoy the next 3 turns of TR. Also, if Slowking misses the KO (it is not a gauranteed OHKO if Klinklang is at 100%, and the Klinklang is left at like 4%, another slow poke can come in. Heck, even Swellow can come in and kill with Facade at this point.
Slowking @ Leftovers/ Life Orb (my personal preference is Lefties)
Regenerator
Quiet (+SpA, -Spe)
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Sp. Atk/ 4 Sp. Def
IVs: 0 Speed
-Trick Room
-Nasty Plot
-Surf
-Psychic/Psyshock
Slowking has made his name in the NU meta as a annoying wall, constantly switching out to regain its health. So what happens when you make a Slowking a very interesting wallbreaker who can sweep late-game? I'm not going to say "durr its god erryone use it now!!11," I'll be honest, it has mixed results. However, when you do have a good match with him, what he does is almost overwhelming. With a -Speed nature and 0 IVs, Slowking reaches a mere 58 Speed, where nothing outspeeds it in TR unless you are a Curse user... With more than 2 under your belt. Before a NP, Slowking has a very respectable 328 Sp. Atk, more than enough to rip holes in major threats. After a NP, its able to break walls like its nothing. Its role does not end after an attacker, however, as it has enough bulk to take the majority of Special hits and can set up TR for the rest of the team.
Sadly, the set is not without its faults. While not exactly Physically frail, it doesn't exactly take hits like a champ from that side. Sucker Punch, a somewhat common move in this tier, destroys him, so support to take out things like Absol is recommended. Jynx also presents a problem because of Dry Skin, but can be taken out through boosts from NP, avoiding Lovely Kiss, or just by the fact that the Jynx might not carry Energy Ball. Another TR abuser is also highly advised, as it does not always survive the 5 turns of TR (although it usually does).
Some calcs to show its power (all taken after one NP):
Surf vs Max/ Max Sassy Mesprit (like anyone uses that, but still): 54.4-64.3%
Surf vs Max/ Max Careful Eelektross: 63.37-74.6%
Surf vs Offensive CM Gardevoir at +1: 60.8-71.6%
Psychic vs Max/ Max Sassy Eviolite Roselia: 66.1-78%
So as you can see, it can 2HKO every defensive threat in the Top 10 except for Slowking.
Offensive teams momentum is destroyed by the loss of their Speed, and the fact that they don't carry much bulk doesn't help.
EDIT: I don't know why I didn't bring this up earlier, but for those of you who are looking back during voting, this Slowking makes an excellent check for Klinklang. +1 Return does an average of ~51%, allowing you to narrowly avoid the 2HKO and set up TR. after this, the opponent will either Gear Shift again or go for another Return (which, as I said, does not normally KO), which allows you to get up a NP, destroy the gears with Surf and enjoy the next 3 turns of TR. Also, if Slowking misses the KO (it is not a gauranteed OHKO if Klinklang is at 100%, and the Klinklang is left at like 4%, another slow poke can come in. Heck, even Swellow can come in and kill with Facade at this point.
hi my name is tennisace with a lowercase t but thanks for the gold star!
That Slowking is... devious. I can see it working like TR Renucleus with less initial power but higher upside. Basically I don't think we'd even need another Trick Room user, just a couple of things that aren't completely assfucked by TR being up (Eggy, Torterra, Rhydon, Armaldo, Eelektross etc etc etc SO MANY SLOW THINGS). So yeah I really really like this since it (theoretically, I'll take your word for it) can sweep once its major checks are out of the way and with a bit of support (spikes stacking looks good here).
That Slowking is... devious. I can see it working like TR Renucleus with less initial power but higher upside. Basically I don't think we'd even need another Trick Room user, just a couple of things that aren't completely assfucked by TR being up (Eggy, Torterra, Rhydon, Armaldo, Eelektross etc etc etc SO MANY SLOW THINGS). So yeah I really really like this since it (theoretically, I'll take your word for it) can sweep once its major checks are out of the way and with a bit of support (spikes stacking looks good here).
I have two unorthadox sets myself.
Ninjask @ Choice Band
252 Att/ 252 Speed/ 4 HP
Adamant Nature
Speed Boost
-X-Scissor
-U-turn
-Aerial Ace
-Return/Metal Claw
This Guy is a beast. He is a great Late-Game Sweeper, U-turn Lead, Scout, and Revenge Killer. One of the best things about Ninjask is that he gains speed every turn, and becomes even more potent. The only bad thing is that he doesnt get Technican, because if he did, this set would be incredible. He is forced to use Metal Claw to take care of Rock types, which isnt very reliable at all. Plus, a 4x weakness to Stealth Rocks doesnt help, even though I noticed they are uncommon.
Liepard @ Focus Sash
252 Att/ 252 Speed/ 4HP
Prankster
Adamant/Jolly Nature
-Thunder Wave
-Swagger
-Encore
-Foul Play
This on is much more gimmicky, but is a blast to use and awesome when it works out. Send him out on a set-up Physical sweeper and Priority Encore. You can use Swagger to further increase their attack, and nail them with a HUGE Foul Play. Swagger can be used in tandem with Thunder Wave for the infamous Parafusion combo, while Thunder Wave itself can be used to cripple fast Life Orb sweepers and Scarf users. Focus Sash in used to increase its longetivity. It can be used, really, to mess a team up pretty badly to set up for a sweeper later. The bad thing about Liepard is that it is very frail, so it may end up taking only two hits - one to brake its sash, and one to KO it. With it, you must play strategicly and intelligently but in the righ t hands, it is awesome.
Ninjask @ Choice Band
252 Att/ 252 Speed/ 4 HP
Adamant Nature
Speed Boost
-X-Scissor
-U-turn
-Aerial Ace
-Return/Metal Claw
This Guy is a beast. He is a great Late-Game Sweeper, U-turn Lead, Scout, and Revenge Killer. One of the best things about Ninjask is that he gains speed every turn, and becomes even more potent. The only bad thing is that he doesnt get Technican, because if he did, this set would be incredible. He is forced to use Metal Claw to take care of Rock types, which isnt very reliable at all. Plus, a 4x weakness to Stealth Rocks doesnt help, even though I noticed they are uncommon.
Liepard @ Focus Sash
252 Att/ 252 Speed/ 4HP
Prankster
Adamant/Jolly Nature
-Thunder Wave
-Swagger
-Encore
-Foul Play
This on is much more gimmicky, but is a blast to use and awesome when it works out. Send him out on a set-up Physical sweeper and Priority Encore. You can use Swagger to further increase their attack, and nail them with a HUGE Foul Play. Swagger can be used in tandem with Thunder Wave for the infamous Parafusion combo, while Thunder Wave itself can be used to cripple fast Life Orb sweepers and Scarf users. Focus Sash in used to increase its longetivity. It can be used, really, to mess a team up pretty badly to set up for a sweeper later. The bad thing about Liepard is that it is very frail, so it may end up taking only two hits - one to brake its sash, and one to KO it. With it, you must play strategicly and intelligently but in the righ t hands, it is awesome.
Stealth Rock uncommon? That's news to me
What game are you playing?
Love the concept, but Prankster Liepard is currently unreleased
Liepard @ Focus Sash
252 Att/ 252 Speed/ 4HP
Prankster
Adamant/Jolly Nature
-Thunder Wave
-Swagger
-Encore
-Foul Play
This on is much more gimmicky, but is a blast to use and awesome when it works out. Send him out on a set-up Physical sweeper and Priority Encore. You can use Swagger to further increase their attack, and nail them with a HUGE Foul Play. Swagger can be used in tandem with Thunder Wave for the infamous Parafusion combo, while Thunder Wave itself can be used to cripple fast Life Orb sweepers and Scarf users. Focus Sash in used to increase its longetivity. It can be used, really, to mess a team up pretty badly to set up for a sweeper later. The bad thing about Liepard is that it is very frail, so it may end up taking only two hits - one to brake its sash, and one to KO it. With it, you must play strategicly and intelligently but in the righ t hands, it is awesome.
Two sets of my own.
Spinda
Ability:Contrary
Nature: Adamant (susceptible to change)
Item: Life Orb
Evs: 252 Atk, 252 Hp, 4 Spd
Superpower
Wish
Return
Psycho Cut
Basically, you start chucking around Superpowers which start boosting your attack and defense, increasing your power and survivability. Wish is the recovery, which could be passed onto something else, with Return as a dependable STAB attack, and Psycho Cut for coverage against fighting types.
Combusken
Ability:Speed Boost
Nature:Jolly (same as with Spinda, susceptible to change, I just put it on there because I wasn't sure)
Item:Life Orb
Evs: 252 Atk, 252 Spd, 4 Hp
Sky Uppercut
Flare Blitz
Baton Pass
Shadow Claw
This is just to pass on the Speed Boosts to something else, but it is actually able to hold it's own. Sky Uppercut and Flare Blitz obvious STABs, and Shadow Claw as coverage against any ghost types.
Let me know what you think, as these were a couple of sets I came up with myself. Feel fre to be critical as I'm still a bit of a noob!
Spinda
Ability:Contrary
Nature: Adamant (susceptible to change)
Item: Life Orb
Evs: 252 Atk, 252 Hp, 4 Spd
Superpower
Wish
Return
Psycho Cut
Basically, you start chucking around Superpowers which start boosting your attack and defense, increasing your power and survivability. Wish is the recovery, which could be passed onto something else, with Return as a dependable STAB attack, and Psycho Cut for coverage against fighting types.
Combusken
Ability:Speed Boost
Nature:Jolly (same as with Spinda, susceptible to change, I just put it on there because I wasn't sure)
Item:Life Orb
Evs: 252 Atk, 252 Spd, 4 Hp
Sky Uppercut
Flare Blitz
Baton Pass
Shadow Claw
This is just to pass on the Speed Boosts to something else, but it is actually able to hold it's own. Sky Uppercut and Flare Blitz obvious STABs, and Shadow Claw as coverage against any ghost types.
Let me know what you think, as these were a couple of sets I came up with myself. Feel fre to be critical as I'm still a bit of a noob!
Note 3: Please do not theorymon. If you have not used a set yourself, do not suggest it.
Why did I bring that up? You can not possibly have actually tested either of those. DW Spinda with Superpower has not yet been implemented into the Smogon server, which most people on the site play on. That and PO's NU is vastly different than Smogon's NU.
That Combusken is just plain illegal, DW Torchic is male-only, so it can't have BP.
Why did I bring that up? You can not possibly have actually tested either of those. DW Spinda with Superpower has not yet been implemented into the Smogon server, which most people on the site play on. That and PO's NU is vastly different than Smogon's NU.
That Combusken is just plain illegal, DW Torchic is male-only, so it can't have BP.
I created them and played some of my friends (who are decent battlers), and why can't Combusken have Baton Pass? (I'm really sorry if I'm being stupid)