*trollface* You mad?

lpmx746

Team At A Glance


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Previous Members:

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Introduction
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Don't mind the post count. I tend to lurk more than I post. I have been battling competitively since the beginning of 4th generation, and would like to think that I have improved greatly this generation. This is my first RMT.

Anyway, having already successfully built a team I decided to build another one. I have taken a liking to bulky Pokemon and sets thanks to Pokemon like Scrafty and Rotom-W. Whenever team building, I try and balance the number of special and physical attackers I have . I don't like Choice Items. I'm also trying to use Pokemon that I haven't used before. So enough with the introductions. Let's get started!
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Heartless (Sableye) (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Recover
- Substitute


I have to thank TheFlamingSpade for this little gem. He can be quite handy in certain situations. He's usually my lead but that all depends on the other team's Pokemon. Will-O-Wisp helps to wear down foes helping to overcome stall teams and stops physical attackers dead in their tracks. I decided to opt for a non-attacking set since I found it works best. Thanks to Pranskter, I can create a sub to absorb attacks like Draco Meteor, Overheat, etc that not only pressures the opponent but also keeps my team safe. Sableye is too slow to use Foul Play effectively.
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Poison Ivy (Celebi) @ Life Orb Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 112 HP / 216 SAtk / 180 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Nasty Plot
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Psychic


I went with this suggestion and at first, I was going to drop it. However, after learning that most Polietoad's don't fear Celebi I found it more effective to Giga Drain right off the bat instead of setting up with Nasty Plot. I can usually take at least 1 super effective hit. Hidden Power Fire helps to take out nasty steel types such as Ferrothorn and Scizor. I will need to use Nasty Plot at least once to ensure a KO in the rain. Psychic takes care of pesky dragons like Dragonite.




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Son Goku (Infernape) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Overheat
- Close Combat
- Grass Knot
- Mach Punch


Acts as one of my physical attackers. Infernape wrecks teams apart since nothing wants to take a STAB Life Orb Boosted Close Combat to the face. Mach Punch is there to revenge kill opponents and can usually do so when the foe has about 30% of its health left. Grass Knot is there for coverage. I went with Iron Fist as his ability to help give Mach Punch an extra boost.


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Shenron (Gyarados) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 80 HP / 224 Atk / 20 Def/184 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce


I love this Gyarados. The EV investments make him bulky which keeps him around longer. Substitute and Dragon Dance are a great combination. A sub allows Gyarados to avoid status inflicting moves and set up a Dragon Dance. He will more often than not outspeed his opponent, and with Moxie, will wreck teams apart. Bounce is used for Ferrothorn and allows him to rack up status damage while gaining Lefties recovery.



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Ifrit (Heatran) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 100 SDef / 160 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Lava Plume
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power


This was originally a Bronzong who had no other use than to set up Stealth Rocks. This is Heatran's main purpose. His EV investments make him bulky enough to tank special hits. Roar gets rid of pesky Pokemon. I kind of want to swap out Earth Power for Toxic now that I don't have Toxic, but then I'd have a hard time taking down Pokemon with a weakness to ground type moves.

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Killer (Scizor) (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Pursuit


After getting rid of both Gastrodon and Starmie, I found that I was getting walled by the likes of Gengar, Reuniclus and Espeon. These are all guys who take special hits all day especially since Calm Mind is a pretty common move for two of them. I had a hard time trying to a choose a a physical Pokemon that also had access to a Dark Type move. In the end, I decided to just go with Scizor. With a priority Bullet Punch, I can easily avoid any shenanigans that these 3 may try to go for while also hitting them hard due to their weak physical Defense. I like this moveset because it allows my Scizor to keep sweeping for a prolonged period of time.



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I'm mainly writing this RMT to get suggestions (like Pokemon that I may have overlooked) from people more experienced with the metagame than I. One of the biggest issues I confront when team building is finding that 6th Pokemon that "glues/binds" my team together. I feel like I have problems with synergy as well. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


EDIT: Updated with suggestions from thread. I think this is a very solid team that, when threats are played around with effectively, can achieve some positive results. I'd like to thank Seth_Vilo and others who have contributed to this thread.
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A quick 'mini-rate' from me, focusing on Sableye. I found that some of the more effective versions run speed ev's to avoid getting caught in a speed tie with other Sableye, and also I reckon you should carry a move for when a Fire-Type switchs in on the Will-O-Wisp, however that would require dropping substitute. My Sableye used 32 Speed EV's, in place of some Defence EV's.
 
I sound like a broken record saying this, but Jellicent does what Sableye is doing much better. The only thing that Sableye has going for it is Prankster. Besides the obvious flaw, good team.
 
A broken record to. Saybleye is not what it is like when it was in RU or in UU.

In OU Saybleye just cant take hits very well and is easier to get knocked out. If you really want a Prankster try Torundus or maybe Whimsicott.
 
King John said:
I sound like a broken record saying this, but Jellicent does what Sableye is doing much better. The only thing that Sableye has going for it is Prankster. Besides the obvious flaw, good team.
Click to expand...
"The obvious flaw"? The only few niches that Jellicent and Sableye share are Will-O-Wisp, Ghost-typed spinblocking, and the potential to stallbreak. Other than those, they serve completely different roles. When can Jellicent completely murder Reuniclus, while it does little of (in the case of CM) nothing back? When can Jellicent put a fullstop to physically inclined HO teams? When can Jellicent block Dual Screens and Stealth Rock from the popular Deoxys-S those HO teams - and many others - carry? When can Jellicent block hazards from any and every user with Taunt? When can Jellicent have no weaknesses? When can Jellicent use its crippling attacks first, avoiding that KO from, say, an Outrage thanks to the burn you inflicted first? When, if Foul play is used (which I highly recommend), can Jellicent singlehandedly knock out LO Alakazam and many other high powered attackers (to name a few, Lati@s is Foul Play hits, multiple Dragons, Gengar, and some Virizion types)? Less seriously, when can Jellicent NOT look like Pringles?

Yes there are some things Jellicent does better, like use it's resistances and immunities unlike Sableye who solely resists Poison, as well as wall most Volcarona, but that's because of the still solid fact that Jellicent and Sableye serve completely different purposes. And don't say that "all Sableye has going for it is Prankster", since that's what Sableye IS. Yes, the statement is true, but that's just as good as saying "all Jellicent has going for it is its defensive typing, stats, and recovery".

Don't degrade lpmx by stating his choice in the highly-effective Sableye is an "obvious flaw", please.
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Having gotten that out of my system, on to a rate!

As said above, I am of the belief that some kind of attack on Sableye is a good idea, otherwise you take away its ability to actuall knock out Alakazam, Reuniclus, and Gengar instead of outstalling them. Also, 248 HP instead of 252 minimizes damage taken from Spikes and such when switching in, so you can drop that last point into Defense or Speed. I don't recommend pumping up the Speed much, as EV's are pressed for this little guys as is, and Sableye are rare enough you shouldn't have to worry about opposing ones.

Gastrodon, however, I would recommend slapping 12 Speed EV's onto to outrun 0 Speed, neutral-natured Forretress and kill it as fast as possible. I've also found myself switching the attack moves between all of Earth Power, Ice Beam, and Scald depending on my mood. Scald is one of the most amazing/annoying moves ever created, so I love to use it.

On Gyarados, I've found that another EV spread could be good to use to boost your Speed a little to outspeed stuff. This is 80 HP / 188 Atk / 20 Def / 220 Spe. This still lets your Subs avoid breaking from burnt Ferothorn's Power Whip, but allows you to outspeed Alakazam after +1 Speed, and max Speed Deoxys-S after +2.

Outside that, I also like the team! Minus the fact that you're missing a Dragon. =P

EDIT:

Now that Deoxys-S is Uber, Gyarados can go with 80 HP / 204 Atk / 20 Def / 204 Spe to still outrun Alakazam at +1.
 
I'm sorry, but I am really getting tired of people trying to force Sableye to be viable in OU. There are MUCH better Prankster users, and quite frankly it's about as frail as a piece of paper. People should stop trying really.
 
King John I have to say you're wrong. While Sableye might not be the most amazing Pokemon ever it is definitely viable in OU. I've never used it but I have faced it plenty (for some reason I tend to run into a lot of Sableye users on the ladder, more than I statisically should) and a properly played Sableye is a bitch to take down. It's extremely effective at hazard control and can wall a large number of threats. Jellicent and Sabeleye do have similar roles but there are niches (which have been described already) that Sabeleye has that Jellicent doesn't. I don't understand why you're hating on the little guy so much.

Anyway, on topic I tend not to rate teams unless I've actually tried them. I would suggest that you add a quick list of Pokemon, playstyles and situations that give your team trouble so I can better figure out how to work around them. It'd really help for people like me who can't just instantly see what teams are weak against just by looking at them :P
 
And I'm just as tired as you of people immediately discounting Sableye's viability and usability. Your argument is a matter of your personal opinion on the Sableye vs Jellicent argument. My argument that Sableye can do things nothing else can is a factual and quantitative one. Sableye is a niche Pokemon you have to know what to do with. Yes it's frail, but if you're using it as a pure wall, you're doing it wrong. It's a burner, stallbreaker, and disruptor, NOT a wall.

Much better Prankster users? Meaning Whimsicott, Volbeat, and Tornadus? None of whom have that ability to Prankster-burn things and immunity to 2 common priority attacks? I don't think so.

Please come up with an actual argument and support before you attempt to force your opinion on people with statements like "People should stop trying really." Have a nice day.
 
gotta say team looks solid love the monkey king reference on infernape, do you have and problems against breloom or gengar just curious
 
@King John, as Seth Vilo said Sableye is a burner, stallbreaker, and disruptor, NOT a wall. It takes hits decently and moreso after burning an opponent. Besides, I can usually usually recover stall them long enough for them to switch.

Seth Vilo said:
EDIT:

Now that Deoxys-S is Uber, Gyarados can go with 80 HP / 204 Atk / 20 Def / 204 Spe to still outrun Alakazam at +1.
Click to expand...

I may just do that. I ran into a few Alakazams (they're getting popular) and they wiped out my team easily.

Haxtwo said:
gotta say team looks solid love the monkey king reference on infernape, do you have and problems against breloom or gengar just curious
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I'd need to go on PO to give you a proper answer. Unfortunately, I won't be able to play until at least Sunday. Gengar doesn't give me much trouble. I use a SubDisable Gengar on my other team, so I know how to go against them. More often than not, I switch into Sableye to taunt them and prevent their shenanigans.

Breloom, hell most grass types for that matter, give me trouble. Sableye is useless against him. No one on my team appreciates sleep, and I have trouble switching someone in since Seed Bomb and Focus Punch will KO them upon arrival. Off the top of my head, Calm Mind users (curse you Reuniclus!) also give me issues

I have to say, I'm loving the feedback. It makes me feel better about my team building skills. Since the majority of it is positive, I'm guessing my issue must be how I play.
 
If you're having trouble with Grass-types, and Infernape and Heatran aren't cutting it for you, one thing you can do is try replacing Gastrodon with some kind of Celebi. I recommend a semi-standard Nasty Plot set:

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Celebi@Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 112 HP / 216 SpA / 180 Spe
IV's: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Nasty Plot
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Psychic

This Celebi still has the potential to hurt Rain teams badly, while also threatening opposing Grass-types with HP Fire (most Grasses, like Ferrothorn) and Psychic (Virizion and Breloom). Psychic also allows Celebi to hit Dragons who normally LOVE switching in on Celei very hard. The Speed lets you outspeed neutral 90's like Lucario, as well as Modest Rotom formes. The HP EV's also give you 369 HP, minimizing Life Orb damage. Celebi has the potential to severely harm the common Volt-Turning strategy with this set, too, and has great synergy with your Heatran and Gyarados, taking Fighting, Water, Ground, and Electric attacks for them both.

If you want it bulkier a bit with Leftovers, the HP of 369 also conveniently is a Leftovers number to allow maximum recovery per turn.
 
I'll definitely look into that Celebi. I used a Choiced one before, but it wasn't very effective. Leafstorm rendered my Special Attack, along with my other moves, useless. If I did want to attack with a different, I couldn't because of the Scarf. This set however seems perfect. With Natural Cure, Celebi doesn't mind status. Life Orb damage is negated with Giga Drain. Celebi is also fast enough to outspeed Politoed, forcing it to switch out and set up a Nasty Plot. 100/100/100 defenses allow to take both super effective and normal attacks quite easily.

How can I edit IV's in PO? I tried giving my old Bronzong 0 IV's in speed, but was never confident I did it right.
 
lpmx746 said:
@King John, as Seth Vilo said Sableye is a burner, stallbreaker, and disruptor, NOT a wall. It takes hits decently and moreso after burning an opponent. Besides, I can usually usually recover stall them long enough for them to switch.



I may just do that. I ran into a few Alakazams (they're getting popular) and they wiped out my team easily.



I'd need to go on PO to give you a proper answer. Unfortunately, I won't be able to play until at least Sunday. Gengar doesn't give me much trouble. I use a SubDisable Gengar on my other team, so I know how to go against them. More often than not, I switch into Sableye to taunt them and prevent their shenanigans.

Breloom, hell most grass types for that matter, give me trouble. Sableye is useless against him. No one on my team appreciates sleep, and I have trouble switching someone in since Seed Bomb and Focus Punch will KO them upon arrival. Off the top of my head, Calm Mind users (curse you Reuniclus!) also give me issues

I have to say, I'm loving the feedback. It makes me feel better about my team building skills. Since the majority of it is positive, I'm guessing my issue must be how I play.
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dont sell your self short the team is really cool the uniqe factor is the sble eye i think against rain teams you might have a little trouble even though gastrodom (exelent tech),their packing more and more breloom and gengar , if you find an angle agaist that you should be golden as much as i like the sable eye idea i think it kinda limits your options
 
i just want to put this out there but personally i prefer this heatran set

Heatran@air balloon
EVs: 252spa / 252spe
Timid nature (+ SPA - ATK)
- heat charge
- fire blast
- dragon pulse
- earth power

it is a much better attacker and i feel this fits heatran better
 
I googled Heat Charge and nothing came up. But still, why would you want two attacks of the same type on a Pokemon?

More importantly, I think Air Baloon Heatran limits one's options. Since Heatran immunity to ground type moves, you can no longer use it to tank special hits like Draco Meteor and the like. Besides since Heatran will mostly likely be OHKO'd by any physical super effective hit, its best to invest in its special defense.

More importantly, Roar has proven itself quite useful. I can phaze out those that try and set up on me.
 
I know that you have Heatran and Sableye for priority burn, but nothing on this team can take a physical Dragon attacks.

I suggest that you run the standard Skarmory. You phazes and sets SR just like Heatran, but can deal with Dragons much more easily.

Skarmory (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 4 SDef / 24 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Brave Bird

You can try your hand at Forretress, which would allow you to lose rapid spin on Starmie and replace Starmie, but then you won't have a phazer.
 
ThePillsburyDoughBoy said:
I know that you have Heatran and Sableye for priority burn, but nothing on this team can take a physical Dragon attacks.

I suggest that you run the standard Skarmory. You phazes and sets SR just like Heatran, but can deal with Dragons much more easily.

Skarmory (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 4 SDef / 24 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Brave Bird

You can try your hand at Forretress, which would allow you to lose rapid spin on Starmie and replace Starmie, but then you won't have a phazer.
Click to expand...


In addition to this you could also just make the heatran more physically bulky.

If that isnt what you want you can add forretress and a pokemon who could dragontail.

For that matter i would suggest this milotic:

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability : Marvel Scale
Evs: 252 Hp , 252 Sp.Def , 6 Def
Carefull nature ( Sp.Def + , Sp.Att - )
- Dragon Tail (phazing)
- Rest (taking advantage of marvel scale where needed)
- Sleep Talk (Status/Phaze while sleeping)
- Toxic (status , could also get an attacking move in this slot)

The set is pretty self-explenatory .
I used it sometimes and i LOVE it , mainly because people dont exactly see it coming.
Downside is that dragontail cant phaze subs.
 
It's been a couple of days, but I updated my team. After testing it out on PO for a while now, I've found it to be pretty effective.

@Haxtwo: I did have some trouble with Gengar as most of my team was outspeed by him. Breloom can still give me some trouble, but if played around with correctly, he isn't much of a threat.
 
lpmx746 said:
It's been a couple of days, but I updated my team. After testing it out on PO for a while now, I've found it to be pretty effective.

@Haxtwo: I did have some trouble with Gengar as most of my team was outspeed by him. Breloom can still give me some trouble, but if played around with correctly, he isn't much of a threat.
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nice nice glad to hear about the breloom so what else besides gengar did you have problems dealing with ?
 
Take a look at my new Scizor description. Reuniclus and Espeon were walling my team. Once Reuniclus set up a Calm Mind, it proceeded to wreck my entire team especially if Gyarados is longer in the playing field.

Espeon turns my Sableye against me. I'm afraid of using it for fear of getting taunted, burned or stealth rocked back. It's worse than Reuniclus since it'll set up duals screens.

To counter these 3, I've added Scizor. A priority Bullet Punch will stop them dead in their tracks.
 
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