Suicune (Update)

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http://www.smogon.com/rs/pokemon/suicune

it's been a while since i've done one of these, so bear with me.

[Overview]

<p>Suicune has been one of the most influential Pokemon to ever be used in any generation. In the Advance metagame it was a very reliable bulky water, as well as a threatening late-game sweeper. With stellar defenses and threatening Speed and Special Attack, Suicune was a Pokemon you should always be prepared for. It was one of the reasons people used standards.</p>

[SET]
name: Defensive Calm Mind
move1: Calm Mind
move2: Surf
move3: Rest
move4: Ice Beam / Roar
item: Leftovers
ability: Pressure
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 60 SpA / 8 Spe

<p>Suicune's most valuable asset is it's massive defensive stats and useful typing. Thanks to Calm Mind and naturally high stats, Suicune becomes a threatening force late game that can easily tear through an unprepared team. Surf is Suicunes main form of dealing damage. Calm Mind helps Suicune deal out more damage and take special hits better, even surviving Thunderbolts after a couple of Calm Minds. Rest helps Suicune shrug off statuses like Toxic and Will-O-Wisp. The last slot is a choice of preference. Ice Beam will be more useful against Salamence, so it can't Dragon Dance in your face and will also prevent Celebi from Calm Minding all over you. Roar is more of a team-player option. Allowing Suicune to switch in against something like Blaziken and Tyranitar and PHaze your enemy, forcing them to be damaged by Spikes (more on that later).</p>

<p>The EVs are simple: lots of HP and lots of Defense. 404 HP lets you survive 5 Seismic Tosses, although with Rest that shouldn't really be an issue. 8 Speed lets you outrun Jolly Marowak, who is albeit less of a threat than it once was. More speed can be used to beat other Suicune to the Roar if you wish, up to 64 for Adamant Tyrantar.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>Spikes. Spikes. Spikes. Three layers of Spikes are preferred when using Suicune as it takes advantage of Roar and also makes sweeping late game much easier. If you aren't going to run Ice Beam, than bring something else with it or Salamence and Dragonite will be much more of a threat to Suicune. Dugtrio is a good teammate as well to trap and KO Celebi who is also a threat if you lack Ice Beam.</p>

[SET]
name: CroCune
move1: Calm Mind
move2: Surf
move3: Rest
move4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
ability: Pressure
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 60 SpA / 8 Spe

<p>While CroCune looks similar to the defensive Calm Mind set listed above, it plays a bit differently. Generally, you want to keep Suicune hidden until later in the game so you can surprise your opponent with a late game sweep. Thanks to Calm Mind and Rest Suicune becomes near impossible to take down. This is one of the most threatening late game sweepers ever. With incredible bulk and a very good STAB, it is a formidable opponent.</p>

<p>252 HP gives it 404 HP which lets it survive 5 Seismic Tosses and gives it plenty of bulk to work with. Rest + Sleep Talk let Suicune attack back, potentially, while being asleep and also help to win PP stalls. Spikes, Sandstorm and conditions are the best forms of support for Suicune, weakening the enemy team over time and making sweeping easier. Therefore, Tyranitar and Skarmory are great assets to this set. Celebi also is a bit of a hindrance so bring something Hidden Power Bug like Flygon or Dugtrio to take it out.</p>

[SET]
name: Offensive Calm Mind
move1: Calm Mind
move2: Hydro Pump
move3: Ice Beam
move4: Hidden Power [Electric] / Hidden Power [Grass]
item: Leftoversability: Pressurenature: Timid Natureevs: 94 HP / 252 SAtk / 164 Spd

<p>Suicune might be an impenetrable wall of solid defenses, but it also has some very strong offensive stats and good typing to take advantage of it. This set plays differently than the previous ones in that it's main objective is to outspeed and take out your opponent rather than take hits and slowly wear down the team. Calm Mind is obviously there to boost your sweeping power and let you survive special hits. Hydro Pump is your powerful STAB move. Ice Beam is there to take out Dragons and Celebi. The choice between Hidden Power Electric or Hidden Power Grass is one of choice. If you want to catch something like Gyarados off guard, use Hidden Power Electric, if you want to catch Swampert off guard, use Hidden Power grass.</p>

[Additional Comments]
<p>The 164 Speed EVs allow you to beat out Adamant Heracross. Max Special Attack makes sweeping easier and the rest of the EVs are just pumped into HP to give it more staying power. An alternative set can use 252 HP, 94 Special Attack and 164 Speed with Substitute instead of a Hidden Power if you wish to be more cautious about it all. The 252 HP makes for 101 HP subs.</p>



I actually picked a poor time to start this and I'm going to sleep now. I'll finish it tomorrow or the next day.
 
You should explain what those 60 SpA EVs accomplish. Doe it let you 2HKO Zapdos / Celebi after a CM? Does it 2HKO Blissey at +6? An OHKO on Salamence (probably this) without boosts?

Also if you slash Sleep Talk in the final slot, you have Crocune covered! However, diverting those SpA EVs into Def EVs may be recommended if the SpA EVs were solely for Ice Beam.

The resurgence of ADV due to Smogon Tours and the influence of the increasingly offensive meta has resulted in an offensive Suicune set that warrants to be on-site. Since this is an update of an old article, mine as well include the set that has been getting more use.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 94 HP / 252 SAtk / 164 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

Taken from Crystal's RMT in the Ruins of Alph. Enough Speed to outrun Adamant Heracross, max SAtk, rest dumped into HP.
 
the best offensive suicune set has 404 hp and sub over hp electric. gyarados is pretty useless and you won't want to set up on starmie anyway.
 
That's another legit set that should go on-site. I still think HP Electric is still useful for Vaporeon.
 
You should explain what those 60 SpA EVs accomplish. Doe it let you 2HKO Zapdos / Celebi after a CM? Does it 2HKO Blissey at +6? An OHKO on Salamence (probably this) without boosts?

Also if you slash Sleep Talk in the final slot, you have Crocune covered! However, diverting those SpA EVs into Def EVs may be recommended if the SpA EVs were solely for Ice Beam.

The resurgence of ADV due to Smogon Tours and the influence of the increasingly offensive meta has resulted in an offensive Suicune set that warrants to be on-site. Since this is an update of an old article, mine as well include the set that has been getting more use.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 94 HP / 252 SAtk / 164 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

Taken from Crystal's RMT in the Ruins of Alph. Enough Speed to outrun Adamant Heracross, max SAtk, rest dumped into HP.

i always just assumed the 60 SpA points were because "they had nowhere else to go and the necessary EVs were used".

I'd rather not slash sleep talk in there because CroCune plays a bit differently which is enough to warrant it's own set imo. I think I'll just change the name of the set i posted to "defensive calm mind" and then post an "offensive calm mind". the fact that they play differently imo warrants a different set, but i could be wrong!

the best offensive suicune set has 404 hp and sub over hp electric. gyarados is pretty useless and you won't want to set up on starmie anyway.

noted.

edit: also, i'll finish this up eventually.
 
Just locking this since it's been forever since it was updated and the sections aren't nearly beefy enough to warrant replacing what's onsite atm
 
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