np: RU Stage 5 - Dark Side of the Moon

[Oglemi]

Those votes sure were interesting! In two unanimous decisions, Porygon-Z was deemed broken, and Honchkrow was deemed not broken.

Cresselia on the other hand was deemed broken by a 5-4 margin.

So what will happen this time? Will Sigilyph fill Cresselia's void, or will it fall short? Is RU finally balanced? I can't wait to find out!

This stage will end on February 13th, at 11:59 pm EST, with voting taking place on that Friday.

Keep the discussion civil and remember that you can become a member of the (newly expanded) Council by making great posts here, so get cracking!

Also! Everyone should come onto IRC and chat it up in #rarelyused to talk all things RU. #rarelyused is where most of the RU community members reside and is the place to be if you're looking to get on the Council for best IRC user (and it is a large influence on the "all around contributor" seats as well). It's a really cool channel with a lot of cool people; Nails, Honko, ShakeItUp, and Texas Cloverleaf among many others are almost constant presences on the channel and are great people to get to know! Everybody there will be willing to help you with your team or any questions you might have so hop on by!

 

[Molk]

Trick Room was a serious force last round, and im sure it will be one this round pushing me into the top ten, and wrecking the hyper offensive metagame, trick room + nasty plot cofagrigus is incredible, and most teams cannot stand the repeated assaults of things like aggron, druddigon, and honchkrow, not to mention my level 1 troll smeargle. even though trick room lost cress, there is still mesprit to fill in the gap of trick room + healing wish, a well built trick room team is extremely hard to stop and there are so many viable sweepers, overall, an amazing playstyle imo

 

[-Tsunami-]

let's get it! and thank god for no p-z.

 

[Avira]

I have to thank the council members for banning Porygon-Z and making the metagame much more enjoyable. I can't wait to see what happens during this stage.

 

[The Goddamn Batman]

Honestly, I never found Porygon-Z to be an issue. I always found that vulnerability to all entry hazards, and weakness to common priority were really effective in checking PZ. Oh well, I have complete faith in this suspect period's council, and I am sure they made a good decision. I'm surprised the Cress vote was so close, but I'm glad it swung the right way. Unburden Hitmonlee is gonna wreck shit with Fake Out/CC/Stone Edge/Mach Punch(for Krow). BTW, Trick Room is such a whore strategy, but im glad its working out for you Molk. I'm surprised it isnt more popular. (Eruption Camerupt anyone?)

 

[Rakan]

The fact that the voting was unanimous when it comes to Porygon-Z and Honchkrow is a really good sign that we are on the right track towards a balanced RU metagame. I'm fairly certain this round will leave us with nothing being banned. In my opinion, nothing in the current metagame is really worthy of being banned. Sigilyph really had nothing on Cresselia, and even with Cresselia's absence, it certainly doesn't have the chops to fill Cresselia's place. However, I do think that it will be a great Pokemon to work with. I'm personally hoping to see a little more usage of creative playstyles, such as weather like rain and sun, and even Trick Room! I'm definitely gonna have a blast with this round.

edit: lol i said 'nothing' three times xD

 

[The Goddamn Batman]

The fact that the voting was unanimous when it comes to Porygon-Z and Honchkrow is a really good sign that we are on the right track towards a balanced RU metagame. I'm fairly certain this round will leave us with nothing being banned. In my opinion, nothing in the current metagame is really worthy of being banned. Sigilyph really had nothing on Cresselia, and even with Cresselia's absence, it certainly doesn't have the chops to fill Cresselia's place. However, I do think that it will be a great Pokemon to work with. I'm personally hoping to see a little more usage of creative playstyles, such as weather like rain and sun, and even Trick Room! I'm definitely gonna have a blast with this round.

I would love to use a rain team, and i think it could be a lot of fun. The only problem is, team preview makes it so much easier to stall out turns of rain than it was last gen, and i have no idea if rain/sun is even viable. Im sure i could get up to like #30 on the leaderboard with it, but against better players i dont think it will fare too well.

 

[Cheapoman]

With Cress and P-Z gone, seems a bit better. Now I need to find another dual screens support poke to replace.

 

[AOPSUser]

Sigilyph really had nothing on Cresselia

True, but the two of them fill very different roles. Cresselia is a support Pokemon; it sets up dual screens and statuses the opponent. Sigilyph, on the other hand, has Magic Guard and Psycho Shift. It also has a lot better attacking stats than Cresselia. Plus Cosmic Power and Stored Power really hurt. All in all, they both fill different roles. Was Cresselia broken? The council (well half of it) thought so. Is Sigilyph broken? I don't know. We'll just have to find out.

 

[dragonboy52]

True, but the two of them fill very different roles. Cresselia is a support Pokemon; it sets up dual screens and statuses the opponent. Sigilyph, on the other hand, has Magic Guard and Psycho Shift. It also has a lot better attacking stats than Cresselia. Plus Cosmic Power and Stored Power really hurt. All in all, they both fill different roles. Was Cresselia broken? The council (well half of it) thought so. Is Sigilyph broken? I don't know. We'll just have to find out.

tbh, I don't think so, Sigilyph (Cosmic Power / Stored Power / Psycho Shift / Roost set) is completely walled by Dark-types. A faster Dark-type like Honchkrow can get a sub off, avoid status and do whatever it wants. Also, Sigilyph is not so defensive even after one boost, meaning that unless you give Sigilyph an opportunity to set up, it's not such a big threat.

Cress was broken though, imo. Since it has really good bulk, access to screen, access to recovery, and can just take on many physical threats such as Unburden Hitmonlee.

One set I have been having a lot of success with is Focus Sash Shell Smash Omastar, it's pretty powerful after one boost, but the problems it has are: 1) It still gets outspeed by most scarfers. 2)Priority. But, if you get those two out of the way, you can sweep nicely with it. Rapid Spin support is crucial.

Lastly, I think Rain is now much more powerful. I'm going to try and make a Rain team and see how it goes.

 

[Saria]

tbh, I don't think so, Sigilyph (Cosmic Power / Stored Power / Psycho Shift / Roost set) is completely walled by Dark-types. A faster Dark-type like Honchkrow can get a sub off, avoid status and do whatever it wants. Also, Sigilyph is not so defensive even after one boost, meaning that unless you give Sigilyph an opportunity to set up, it's not such a big threat.

Timid Sigilyph outspeeds Max Speed Adamant Krow without any EV investment and outspeeds it Max speed Jolly Krow with 48 EV in speed (Personally I would run a lot more speed than that). Honchkrow will get burned before setting up a sub and then stalled by Cosmic Power + Roost, Sigi can't actually touch it but it can actually pp stall Krow.

I'm not saying Sigilyph is broken but saying you can just beat it with Sub Krow is false.

 

[Sabinfrost]

I'm in the never found PZ to be an issue boat, he wont get used in UU either due to P2, offensive P2 > offensive PZ.

Glad to see Cress gone and Honch staying, they were two things I was calling for.

 

[Molk]

viability in other tiers =/= viablility in the tier it was banned from, it has no standing, a pokemon can be horrific in the tier above, but still be banned from its tier. ie: well this pokemon sucks in UU is not a valid argument to keep it in the tier

 

[DTC]

tbh, I don't think so, Sigilyph (Cosmic Power / Stored Power / Psycho Shift / Roost set) is completely walled by Dark-types. A faster Dark-type like Honchkrow can get a sub off, avoid status and do whatever it wants. Also, Sigilyph is not so defensive even after one boost, meaning that unless you give Sigilyph an opportunity to set up, it's not such a big threat.

Cress was broken though, imo. Since it has really good bulk, access to screen, access to recovery, and can just take on many physical threats such as Unburden Hitmonlee.

One set I have been having a lot of success with is Focus Sash Shell Smash Omastar, it's pretty powerful after one boost, but the problems it has are: 1) It still gets outspeed by most scarfers. 2)Priority. But, if you get those two out of the way, you can sweep nicely with it. Rapid Spin support is crucial.

Lastly, I think Rain is now much more powerful. I'm going to try and make a Rain team and see how it goes.

Actually, Sigilyph is a lot faster than Honchkrow. It only needs 48 Speed EV's to outspeed Adamant Honchkrow! The best way to deal with Sigilyph is just send out hard hitting Special Attackers to try and kill it before it can attack. Taunting it as fast as you can also works, as Sigilyph is a lot less effective if it can only use that +1/+1 Stored Power.

About Omastar, yeah, it's fantastic. I don't like Focus Sash Omastar, though. I'd rather use White Herb, so you don't have to worry about priority. Omastar can easily set up on something like CB Entei (just be careful and don't switch into a HP Grass!) and then proceed to sweep the opposing team if they don't have a fast scarfer like Rotom-C or Primeape, or if they have something silly like Timid Acceglor.

Here is what Omastar takes from the common priority users in RU:

252 Atk Adamant Life Orb Hitmonchan Mach Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Omastar: 57.65% - 67.26%

252 Atk Adamant Life Orb Honchkrow Sucker Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Omastar: 53.38% - 62.99%

252 Atk Adamant Choice Band Hitmonlee Mach Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Omastar: 59.79% - 71.53% (Not that common, but personally, I like it more than that Unburden set, which you have to wait until a lot later on in the game for it to even do anything.)

A lot of people think Hitmonchan is a good counter to Omastar. Well, let me prove them wrong: 252 +2 SpAtk Omastar Hydro Pump vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Hitmonchan: 119.74% - 141.12%

It's a pretty good check to Life Orb Omastar and Surf White Herb (provided rain is up), but not an overall counter to Omastar. Oh, and an Omastar in rain is even scarier. It doesn't even have to setup to be fast, it has boosted Rain attacks, and it's impossible to revenge (without priority) if it sets up a Shell Smash.

 

[DittoCrow]

I totally agree with the Council's decision to ban Porygon-Z and Cress, and keep Honchkrow in the tier. I think RU is close to being balanced, but new threats might emerge this round. I see Trick Room teams becoming more popular for some reason. We'll have to wait and see!

 

[MegaKick]

glad my abuse of dual screens cress + double setup pory-z helped show people how overpowered they both were.
anyway, sigilyph is pretty annoying with it's psycho shift-roost-cosmic power-stored power set, but it does give a lot of switchins to CB entei witch is a huge threat right now, hitting everything with flare blitz and beating out honchkrows sucker punch with espeed. just a shame flash fire isnt out yet and is illegal with it's event moves.

 

[complete legitimacy]

Is it just me, or is everyone and their mother running Substitute on at least one Pokemon? It makes pretty much every sweeper better. Lilligant, Honchkrow, Gallade, Sceptile, Magneton, the list goes on. It's extremely difficult to deal with, especially in the cases of Lilligant, whose Substitute becomes nearly impossible to break with a Special attack, and Magneton, who becomes ridiculously bulky with Eviolite, moreso on the physical side.

Just an observation.

 

[Rakan]

Substitute users are easily handled with the Volt-Turn strategy. Sure, they can attempt to boost, but unless it's Cosmic Power and Substitute, they cannot boost their lower defense, meaning that their Subs will be broken by one or the other. Taunt and Roar are also good options for dealing with Substitute users.

 

[lars]

Yay! Honchkrow is sticking around! I didn't personally have much of an opinion on Pory-Z and Cress; I didn't use them much / at all (respectively) so I'm glad others have better experience that led to the voting results.

@Complete, I've also somewhat noticed that particular "substitute" trend. It does kind of make sense. Many of the more potent attackers in RU can muscle around their checks if they have a sub up.

Also, Rock as an attacking type just gets better and better in this meta. (This also works well with a sub up - HP rock) as the tiers fastest members (not to mention the common scarfers) are almost all weak to rock. Let them break your sub and smash them super effectively.

Fighting types (at least I think) have been on a slight decline in RU, but their very useful rock resist might give them a rise in popularity this round (despite their crippling flying weakness >.< )

 

[Cheapoman]

Trying out right now a Red Card Aggron w/ T-wave / Rock Slide / Iron Head and Stealth rocks. Seems pretty decent and trading iron hear for metal burst to win a free KO on something.

 

[New World Order]

I'm expecting to see a rise in stall, not just because of the banning off Porygon-Z, but also the banning of Cresselia (less dual screens offense teams). While I'm still a little butthurt about P-Z getting the kick before Cresselia was gone, its certainly an understandable banning.

 

[The Goddamn Batman]

I'm expecting to see a rise in stall, not just because of the banning off Porygon-Z, but also the banning of Cresselia (less dual screens offense teams). While I'm still a little butthurt about P-Z getting the kick before Cresselia was gone, its certainly an understandable banning.

I've actually seen many more balance teams while laddering today. I think balance is way easier to pull off because it doesn't have to deal with Hyper Offense (Porygon-Z) and stall (Cresselia) at the same time anymore. This may be because it's the first day after the ladder reset and everyone is vying for the top position by building generic teams, but i expect this trend to continue.

Without Cress around, I've been using an Calm Mind LO Sigilyph, which really wrecks players who switch in slower pokes trying to take a burn. Idk how much longer my team will be in the top 5 for, as better players start to come on, but right now is a really good stage of RU, and I really encourage more players to get on the ladder. Seriously, I don't wanna get wrecked by Silent Verse every time i come on.

 

[Pearl]

Is it of me, or this is exactly what happened in Gen 4 UU (excluding the part where Honchkrow stays) all over again?

Also, Absol should be used more. It has a sexy base attack, strong priority, a cool boosting move, A++ typing along with cool coverage, which allow it to smash offensive teams and also do well against stall.

 

[Cheapoman]

Is it of me, or this is exactly what happened in Gen 4 UU (excluding the part where Honchkrow stays) all over again?

Also, Absol should be used more. It has a sexy base attack, strong priority, a cool boosting move, A++ typing along with cool coverage, which allow it to smash offensive teams and also do well against stall.

Honch has a few things that put it above Absol

1. Reliable recovery

2. Moxie boosting its attack after each KO

3. immune to ground type moves like earthquake

They are bove good at punching holes in the opposing team but Honch just has more of that late-game sweeping thing imo when its checks are either weakened or taken out earlier in the match.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

^It also gets STAB Brave Bird to scare away fighting-types that would come in to take Night Slash/Sucker Punch.