The Everything NFL Thread: 2011-2012 Season (plus free agency I guess)

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yondie said:
Before dubby gets all high and mighty about his innocent 49ers, i'd like to agree with shinryu.
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WaterBomb said:
that article comes from a Giants website so I'm inclined to believe it's a bit sensationalized in their favor...
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This. I would have said this if you hadn't. Especially since that site says that Manning was "likely" a target. Had this been released by the NFL like they did with the Saints bounties, I would have believed it.

You can argue that the things he is saying are just meant to pump guys up, but like others before me have said, he is talking about players' recent injuries and is telling his players to target those specific areas. If he had just said something like "we're gonna go kill them" I would be fine with it given that there are many different ways to interpret that phrase. But he even mentioned keeping the 49ers players "on the sidelines", so clearly he wants them to be taken out of the game.
 
Agreed on targeting the injuries being a vile thing to do, but I'm willing to bet almost every NFL coach (or at least some of the players) think about the injuries of the opposition when they play. When teams were playing against Roethlisberger when he had his ankle sprain there seemed to be more people than usual going low on him. Was the same with AP when he had his ankle injury. Perhaps this was the result of a little extra "coaching" as well?

When a high profile player has a publicized injury, there is great temptation to focus on it. You can't tell me there aren't any other coaches out there who might have said "____ has that knee injury, so go low on him!"

Williams deserves his punishment, I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying we're all in shock like we think this hasn't happened anywhere else. Maybe not to the extent of real bounties, but I'm quite sure there's been a few suggestions to "agitate" someone's injury.
 
The thing is, Williams was also trying to target players (mostly quarterbacks) that didn't even have previous injuries, but he just wanted to take them out of the game to force the other team's backup into the game.
 
Dubby said:
The thing is, Williams was also trying to target players (mostly quarterbacks) that didn't even have previous injuries, but he just wanted to take them out of the game to force the other team's backup into the game.
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You say that like any team wouldn't be secretly rejoicing if their opponent's starting QB was forced out of the game due to injury. Yeah nobody wants to endanger someone else's health, but everyone feels better when their opponent has to play a backup =P.

I know what you're saying though, and Williams definitely crossed the line by making it a priority. Pretty sure he'll be banned from NFL forever (if he isn't already).
 
Williams deserves a real punishment but if you don't think this is an every day occurrence from every sports team ever then you've either never played a meaningful sports game or you're outrageously troll-level naive. People like Williams are not the exception. Even in pussy sports like soccer and baseball you have people being targeted. It's human nature to exploit other people's weaknesses, football just gives players unparalleled access to exploiting their physical ones.

Killah said:
Can we stop with the "It's football" argument though? Players are taught in fucking little league to treat opponents with respect, and going out of your way to attempt to harm your opponent is anything but respect.
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You can't expect football players to act with class and intelligence, especially defensive players who are EXPECTED to hit as hard as they can or else they lose their jobs. It's kind of hard to teach respect while also teaching people that big hits are rewarded with more playing time and highlight reel clips.

Suspending a handful of people is not going to make this problem go away. That's what is meant when people say "it's football". It is ingrained in the culture and respect for your opponent only comes into play when there's money to be made mutually.
 
jrrrrrrr said:
Williams deserves a real punishment but if you don't think this is an every day occurrence from every sports team ever then you've either never played a meaningful sports game or you're outrageously troll-level naive. People like Williams are not the exception. Even in pussy sports like soccer and baseball you have people being targeted. It's human nature to exploit other people's weaknesses, football just gives players unparalleled access to exploiting their physical ones.
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Don't call soccer or baseball "pussy sports", because I will never take your posts seriously if you do. When I played sports, the thought never crossed my mine to target someone's injury since I find it classless and in bad sportsmanship. I guess I sort of feel bias towards it, since a injury ended my chance at a athletic career.

You can't expect football players to act with class and intelligence, especially defensive players who are EXPECTED to hit as hard as they can or else they lose their jobs. It's kind of hard to teach respect while also teaching people that big hits are rewarded with more playing time and highlight reel clips.
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It's one thing to hit someone hard, but it's another thing to target someone's injuries. What ever happen to getting more playing time when you actually make a good play? If that last sentence is true, than the ethics in the NFL are totally skewed.

Suspending a handful of people is not going to make this problem go away. That's what is meant when people say "it's football". It is ingrained in the culture and respect for your opponent only comes into play when there's money to be made mutually.
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That last sentence makes no sense to me since it's the exact opposite of what I was taught about respecting the other players and sportsmanship.


Seriously, some of you guys sound like you're saying this isn't a big deal because it happens all the time. Well I really don't care if every single player or coach plays/coaches like, it doesn't make it right and it is a big deal.
 
lol real soccer isn't a pussy sport. It's just turned into one on the professional level because there are more actors than players.
 
WaterBomb said:
lol real soccer isn't a pussy sport. It's just turned into one on the professional level because there are more actors than players.
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This. I play soccer and it is nothing like what you see on television, it is much more physical and intense. Plus most of the actors can be found in European soccer, so soccer from other parts of the world is typically more realistic.
 
I think we all know what I meant when I said that about soccer and baseball. Even the slightest bit of contact, real or fake, and the game is instantly stopped by the refs. Now compare that to the NFL where the entire game revolves around physically attacking the ball carrier.

The Diverman said:
It's one thing to hit someone hard, but it's another thing to target someone's injuries. What ever happen to getting more playing time when you actually make a good play? If that last sentence is true, than the ethics in the NFL are totally skewed.
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The thing is, "a good play" can be defined as blowing someone up with a borderline hit. To make them even more legitimate, they measure the effects of these things. Forced Fumbles, Sacks, QB Hits, etc, things that are really good things to know about players before signing them. And they are all boosted by being willing to hit hard and recklessly. James Harrison still has a job but it's not because he is the smartest linebacker.

The Diverman said:
That last sentence makes no sense to me since it's the exact opposite of what I was taught about respecting the other players and sportsmanship.
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Respect doesn't mean that much when you are playing to keep a multi-million dollar contract. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it should make sense. Most of the things I'm seeing about this coverage involves people being shocked that something like this could develop and be kept quiet. If a player is making big money in his contract for winning games/good performance, of course they would have a reason to hurt the other team.
 
Has anyone watched this Browns' video? It is helarious... Though i'm jeleous because i've never had the opportunity to buy season tickets:

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=wGfLFmlU8zo

The funniest part is when he says how the Browns are making a bunch of moves during free agency... Man, the more i watch this video the more i hate the Ravens and LeBron!

Also, after hours analyzing this list... I just can't find anything wrong with it:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8281b796/article/quarterback-rankings-eli-manning-tops-list-heading-into-2012
 
ShakeItUp said:
I'm a Giants fan and I don't find that list very legitimate. One example why: Joe Flacco is #12 and AHEAD of Tony Romo.
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Yeah, i agree with you. Tony Romo, while a choker, is the best player in that team... While Flacco is surrounded by an amazing team/defense. And i know i'm on the good old wagon, but i think Rodgers is the best qb playing right now. I don't mean overall. Though that may change if Eli throws for 5000+ yards next season. And again, i don't mean career wise.. no one can compare to Peyton on that front.

Career-wise of active QBs would be:

1. Peyton
2. Brady
3. Rodgers
4. Eli
5. Brees
6. Big Ben


Dubby said:
"Quarterback rankings: Eli Manning tops list heading into 2012." I stopped reading there.
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Hey, to give some credit to the guy he is talking about going into next season. You could make a good argument that a qb who took the 27th ranked defense, with the 32nd ranked rushing offense to not only the playoffs but to win the super bowl is deserving of the position. And may i remind you that the Giants are 7-1 in their last 8 games. Same as the Patriots, better than the Ravens(6-2), 49ers(6-2) and the Packers(6-2). Thanks in large part to the team getting healthy and removing a lot of pressure from Eli. Which then improved his game. So yes, you could make an argument and have Eli as the best QB going into next season.

Though i do disagree with the list itself. Just saying.. and my previous post was meant to be funny.
 
The Packers are also 21-2 in their last 23 games, so...


Some highlights from that list:

"13) Tony Romo, Dallas Cowboys: He's better than anyone gives him credit for."

"14) Jay Cutler, Chicago Bears: The Bears would've been in the Super Bowl last season if he stayed healthy."

Rates Brady/Brees lower because there were "too many things outside of his control have kept him from winning more." Isn't this a quarterback list ???

Says Phillip Rivers has a chance to make the HoF without reaching a super bowl

My favorite was at the top of the article though:

"Liked: 0 | Comments: 3345"
 
Haha, didn't notice that until now. That was quite the laugh. I like some of the comments he's getting:

"you sure you don't write comedy? you sure don't know sports"

"No. Just No."

"This list is nonsensical."

Just for the record, I googled "Eli Manning top QB on list" and this same article was the first link. Might explain why some hero likes it so much..
 
Killah said:
The Packers are also 21-2 in their last 23 games, so...
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Well, i don't place as much stock in regular season records as i do in post season records. The regular season record is inflated by hundreds of things.. The most obvious being the quality of the opponents. Lord tehvalkry, how many good teams did the Patriots play this season? I don't follow them. All i know is that they played the Steelers and Giants(and lost both) during the regular season.. those being the only good teams they played. Though i could be wrong about that. In the playoffs the Patriots also played a poor team and struggled against the Ravens(i know i dont belive in luck..but HOLY FUCK). So the Patriots record this year is heavily inflated... And it will be next year as well(again..HOLY FUCK HOW IS THAT FAIR?)

And no i'm not a Patriot hater. I love them for handing Eli his second super bowl as i was convinced the Ravens would have whooped the Giants' butts. Or at least be a bigger threat as they can run the ball...
Dubby said:
Just for the record, I googled "Eli Manning top QB on list" and this same article was the first link. Might explain why some hero likes it so much..
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Yes, it's true i love the article. Do i believe Eli is the best qb going to next season? No. But do i love the article? Yes. Plus i was joking when i said i analyzed it.
 
cam newton in the top 10 but matthew stafford isn't. what a useless list. ESPECIALLY if it's going into next season.
 
Ok some hero I am nicely asking you, can you PLEASE post something without getting the Giants and Eli Manning involved. I'm not interested in your fanboyism, honestly just contribute something to the conversation rather than just talking about how Eli got his 2nd ring every other post.
 
would be easier if we just banned him already tbh

Big Ben literally two spots ahead of Rodgers.
 
the take out the head and the body dies as well as 'hit him in the chin' are things that my coaches have said to me and teammates in practice / pre-game since i was in peewee football -_-. The things that really urk me are the take out guys knees. When he used the word 'ACL' thats what really is getting people pissed off, as well as the talk of concussions.

"1) Eli Manning, New York Giants: A 30-touchdown/4,000-yard passer with two Super Bowls in the past five years. Both won with last-minute drives -- and both over Tom Brady. Give me a better recent résumé. You can't."
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Even I wouldnt put Eli over aaron rodgers, but I can't really disagree with this. The only guys who could rival the 'success' hes speaking of are Rodgers and Brees (top QB rating, passing yard record, both won a superbowl since the Giants first win etc)

If you switched the top 5 to: rodgers / brees / brady / eli / big ben and put cam at 8 and rivers at 7, i'd p much agree with that list however. (maybe romo a bit higher now that i've scrolled down hahaha)

note: this is by a fantasy analyst so he is possibly looking at fantasy production for his list IDK (just maybe)
 
yondie said:
lol Brock Osweiler

actually, if the Browns don't get obsessed over the whole 'nfl is a passing league' and value Ryan Tannehill or Justin Blackmon over T-Rich, draft T-Rich, and then draft a WR (a position with a lot more depth in this draft) @ #22 then I think they'll be sold at the skill positions on their Offense. Invest in an Offensive guard in round 2 and then find some defensive projects in the later rounds. I think Colt Mccoy has the potential to be a 'top 20' quarterback but he'll need a solid running game to lean on and he'll also need more than just greg little and benjamin watson to throw to.

I'd lol ALOT if they select tannehill
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Hahaha, what an awful strategy.

You wanna see what happens when you take a shit QB, a great RB, and a solid defense?

8-8
10-6
12-4 (with a one year rental of Brett Favre)
6-10
3-13

Great strategy. The QB has to carry the team, having him BE carried doesn't work anymore. Period. RBs die too quickly and having a great one versus a good one is worth about 500 extra yards at most a season.
 
what happens when the redskins take rgiii and he turns out to be a shit qb but a decent rb. like a worse tebow :cloud:
 
Ancien Régime said:
Hahaha, what an awful strategy.

You wanna see what happens when you take a shit QB, a great RB, and a solid defense?

8-8
10-6
12-4 (with a one year rental of Brett Favre)
6-10
3-13

Great strategy. The QB has to carry the team, having him BE carried doesn't work anymore. Period. RBs die too quickly and having a great one versus a good one is worth about 500 extra yards at most a season.
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A) mccoy can be alot better than jackson
B) browns oline and defense is younger and stronger than the bikes
C) if the browns get a bell cow AND a solid receoverto pair with greg little mccoy can thrive evwlrn more than jackson.

Also 00 ravens and 02 bucks would like to remind u this strategy worls
 
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