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Sableye
- Thread starter Move_Zero
- Start date
Toxic spikes is pretty mute to be honest, any good player that seems me with a toxic spikes user and if they have Mew or Sableye on there team, they will lead with it and stop toxic spikes right there. With such a good taunter I might be able to get one later up and then they purposely poison themselfs with normal poison, which does little to them and actually allows them to survive and continue to stall my team.
They are actually in a similar vien as the more popular Jellicent to be honest, which again Celebi walls all out. Shaymin might be better for that exact job, but the fighting resistance and perish song can be life saving.
And I don't feel like using heatran.
Scizor is the most overrated piece of trash around. Anything that doesn't mind Bullet Punch / U-Turn / Non-STAB Superpower demolishes it. (Fire-types) Scizor is such a bad Pokemon. No one should ever use it.
Best logic.
I've used Sableye, and it's... okay. It has the potential to be an incredible pain to all-out aggro offensive teams if you play around their heavy special hitters, but a lot of that relies on not missing with Will-o-wisp, avoiding critical hits and the opponent not having a lum berry, which makes it a not so reliable Pokemon in some respect. A lot of the time, if your will-o-wisp fails, you'll probably end up losing Sableye for basically nothing.
It's also pretty decent against a few stall Pokemon, but a lot of that relies on your skill at consistently double switching into the opponent's entry hazard users or into Blissey/Chansey over and over again.
It works nicely on rain teams, I guess. Rain gives it the ability to switch into some threats like Infernape while nerfing Heatran/fire types. Still, as useful as it can be sometimes, you really need to have heavy support if you're planning to use one, and even then, you're going to be depending on will-o-wisp's accuracy probably more than you'd like.
It's also pretty decent against a few stall Pokemon, but a lot of that relies on your skill at consistently double switching into the opponent's entry hazard users or into Blissey/Chansey over and over again.
It works nicely on rain teams, I guess. Rain gives it the ability to switch into some threats like Infernape while nerfing Heatran/fire types. Still, as useful as it can be sometimes, you really need to have heavy support if you're planning to use one, and even then, you're going to be depending on will-o-wisp's accuracy probably more than you'd like.
Yeah except Scizor is actually good. Sableye Burns things and Taunts quickly. That's all he does. Oh did I mention its only redeeming quality, priority WoW effectively means you're relying on a 75% accurate move to survive? What happens when WoW misses or they have a Lum Berry? You die.
lol, nothing switches in on Scizor well because U-turn just means you take damage and get countered. Also CB Superpower OHKOs every single Fire type in OU after Stealth Rocks.
Sableye isn't a top tier pokemon like scizor is, but it's silly to ignore the fact that it DOES have a niche in standard. The reasons you mentioned are significant factors that contribute to its lack of usage, and everyone knows that it has pretty severe flaws. That doesn't mean that it is useless in OU.
Sableye's useful basically because it's got Prankster priority Will-O'Wisp and Taunt, along with Recover. Surprisingly, the little gremlin is quite bulky, all things considering. It's typing isn't that bad either, with immunities to Psychic, Normal, and Fighting, the Fighting immunity being the most important one in the competitive metagame.
About that word: "Sableye"
Sableye is good in OU because of the sheer amount of Defensive Pokemon that can do next to nothing to him. Priority WoW can be devastating, but priority Taunt with Sableye's typing is what makes Sableye scary. The problem is that you're thinking strictly offense, which is foolish to say the least. With that said, WoW's accuracy for the most part is a non-factor. If it is, you're using Sableye wrong and I believe that the "wrong" Sableye is the one you are describing. Sableye's main jobs are to prevent set-up, ruin defensive Pokemon, & spread status. If you end up burning a Dragonite, consider it a bonus, but Sableye is not meant to counter offense. If countering offense was the reason you put Sableye on your team, I can say without a doubt that you're doing it wrong. Sableye can act as an emergency check, but that's as far as it should go. Sableye is in OU to give stall hell and maybe piss off a TR Reuniclus or two. The most Sableye should take if WoW misses is a Taunted Skarmory's Brave Bird. WoW missing shouldn't be a cause for Sableye to go down. If that happens, you're an idiot or you had an idiotic moment. Understand that.
And before BS conditions like Layer 2 Toxic Spikes get brought up, any player with any sense will do 1 of 2 things if they can't remove Toxic Spikes: They will either prevent Toxic Spikes from getting up in the first place or make Sableye take a dip in the Layer 1 to avoid being badly poisoned later. Layer 2 Toxic Spikes is NEVER a factor in any Pokemon conversation to any good player unless the Pokemon in question has Natural Cure, especially when you're trying to prove a point. Sorry, but that just doesn't HM 02.
There's nothing more satisfying as statusing a physical attacker that isn't Conkeldurr or Machamp with WoW, then sponging their hits with impunity as you Taunt the crap out of everything. Sableye is stall's worst nightmare, and Whimsicott and Murkrow could be considered in the same boat. They need no speed whatsoever, and a Tricked Lagging Tail would screw speedy hitters over.
Sableye is defitnitely not a piece of trash in OU. Not only a mean stall breaker, but he is one of the only spinblockers in OU. I have found the most sucess for Sableye on stall teams. Being able to beat CM Reuniclus 1 vs 1 100% of the time makes a valuable piece to a stall team. Stall teams have the hazards and status that Sableye can abuse with his Taunt (forcing switches and making them unable to heal). Of course stall teams need there own stallbreaker to make it easier to face opposing stall. Sableye really likes being paired with a bulky grass type, especially Roserade with T-spikes, since he can prevent the Rapid Spin for 2-3 turns from Starmie. Switch into the next obvious water move and force your opponent to Rapid Spin or loose there Starmie.
I use this guy on my Rain Stall team, really good to spread status and troll people to ragequit.
I run an annoying set that consists of
Taunt
WoW
Recover
Confuse Ray
Having used it 20 battles I can say it's a fun little Pokemon to use.
I run an annoying set that consists of
Taunt
WoW
Recover
Confuse Ray
Having used it 20 battles I can say it's a fun little Pokemon to use.
Can he learn rain dance ? If so that could work wonders.
Yeah it learns Rain Dance.
Rain Dance Sableye would be pretty cool for rain teams that need an emergency weather starter, getting the weather up when necessary. On top of that, Dragonite can't kill it first with E-Speed due to Sableye being immune to it.
Actually, just wanted to say I've recently started to use Sableye on my semi-stall team and though it took some getting used to, it's working wonders for me now that I've learned how to use it.
The first thing to know when using Prankster Sableye is that IT IS NOT VERY BULKY. At all. It has defensive stats worse than most sweepers we call frail do, like Infernape, Lucario and Zoroark. However that should not deter you from using it, because it still makes a fantastic check to physical attackers thanks to Priority Will-o-wisp and is perhaps the single most effective stallbreaker in the game. The key to using it properly is finding good opportunities to switch in, since it takes heavy damage from even some defensive mons attacks. Also, remember that it can't wall anything on the special side above a Politoeds Scald, and even that is pushing it. However it's a pretty much perfect counter to Ferrothorn, Forretress, Skarmory, etc. and is great for minimizing the amount of hazards you have on your side of the field. It's also great at dealing with physical set up sweepers, able to burn them then taunt them and stall them out. A great check to Terrakion too, as long as you're careful to come in on CC and not Stone Edge. Using Sableye effectively is NOT easy, which is probably why a lot of people conclude that it sucks after first trying it, but with a little practice it can turn into a little menace like none other, able to beat some entire teams all on its own.
The first thing to know when using Prankster Sableye is that IT IS NOT VERY BULKY. At all. It has defensive stats worse than most sweepers we call frail do, like Infernape, Lucario and Zoroark. However that should not deter you from using it, because it still makes a fantastic check to physical attackers thanks to Priority Will-o-wisp and is perhaps the single most effective stallbreaker in the game. The key to using it properly is finding good opportunities to switch in, since it takes heavy damage from even some defensive mons attacks. Also, remember that it can't wall anything on the special side above a Politoeds Scald, and even that is pushing it. However it's a pretty much perfect counter to Ferrothorn, Forretress, Skarmory, etc. and is great for minimizing the amount of hazards you have on your side of the field. It's also great at dealing with physical set up sweepers, able to burn them then taunt them and stall them out. A great check to Terrakion too, as long as you're careful to come in on CC and not Stone Edge. Using Sableye effectively is NOT easy, which is probably why a lot of people conclude that it sucks after first trying it, but with a little practice it can turn into a little menace like none other, able to beat some entire teams all on its own.
Jimera, i actually find it to be somewhat bulky. The key is that it's got that priority recover. That lets you avoid 2hitkos from things like draco meteor, and can let you stall for hydro pump misses.Again volt-turn teams i lead with it to burn rotom-w for easier stalling. Against rain teams, same thing but for politoed.
Priority recover =/= bulk. It still takes loads of damage from attacks. My point was really to make sure you don't switch it into attacks in general, especially special attacks. If they do half health or near enough to it you'll be stuck recovering until you get critted or they decide to set up something. It's not bulky; it's "fast". If you switch in on the wrong move at the wrong time, you won't be able to do your job because you'll be stuck recovering forever. Basically, you need to know its limits, and know that its limits are a lot lower than for traditional bulky Pokemon.
I do however acknowledge its usefulness against some Volt-Turn (if they have Magnezone or Celebi though you could be in a tight spot) and SOME Politoed (Specs will murder you with Hydro Pump). I tend to lead with Sableye more often than I do with any other Pokemon, simply because that Priority taunt is so useful against most hazard leads and that Priority Will-o-wisp is so good against all the offensive leads. Amazing at grabbing that momentum off the bat.
You should not be staying in on Politoed. Specs variants will utterly destroy you. As others have said, Sableye shouldn't be trying to counter offense.
Counter offense, no, but it can be a very good check to a large number of physical threats. Once you get it in (say on a Terrakion CC), it really wreaks havoc with most physical attackers, and if your opponent has lost its special attackers... well it can potentially dismantle the rest of the team on its own. The trick is getting it in really.
I should also point out that Sableye doesn't have a lot it can do to enemies that switch in on it like Heatran, Latios and Infernape. However, usually these switches are very predictable, allowing you to easily grab momentum by double switching to a counter. If you're not comfortable with that, well Night Shading them on the switch or topping up you HP with Recover is usually a safe bet, even though it'll lose you momentum at least you'll keep the damage tallies in your favor.
I always find the problem with Sableye to be an extreme suceptibility to status. When you are on the precipice of being 2HKO'ed/3HKO'ed by many attacks, that extra damage (say 12%) every turn can put you in a real pinch. It puts you into a position where you have to recover when you can't afford it since Sableye heavily relies on Taunt and Will-o-Wisp to do its job.
Actually, if you can predict its switch-in, Sableye can do loads to Latios and Celebi, and at least a chunk to Infernape with Foul Play. I've been able to 2HKO or OHKO a cocky Latios switching in to Meteor me, even with Latios' lowered Attack stat from a Timid nature. For this reason I find Foul Play much more effective than Night Shade in most situations.
Foul Play vs:
-Choice Latios (with 194 Atk) - 67.55%-79.45%
-MixApe Infernape (307 Atk) - 30.03% - 35.49%
-Nasty Plot Celebi (212 Atk) - 46.97% - 53.3%
All the more reason to lower your Atk IV's to 0 if you're a Special Attacker without a specific Hidden Power.
Actually, ignore that last statement, as it makes Sableye even more awesome. Keep those IV's at 31.
I'm sure we already established that while Sableye is certainly viable, you have to play with it very carefully. Exposing Sableye to any STAB-Choiced move is likely going to end in a OHKO, or falling just short of. It struggles in Sand particulary because if you find yourself against Heatran, even your Sun team (where Sableye has been proven worthy) won't save you from those Lava Plume/Roar sets which you have to waste a turn Taunting if you didn't switch out already.
Actually, I find that Sableye doesn't mind status *that* much other than Toxic. While it certainly doesn't LIKE it, I find that Sableye is still able to do its job most of the time with a burn (most common condition it gets) or paralysis (prankster bypasses the speed loss anyway). Sleep and freeze cripple it like anything else of course, and Toxic is deadly if it hits you. However, Toxic is usually very easy for Sableye to avoid as it's usually fairly predictable and Taunt instantly prevents it from happening.
Hell, sometimes I find it getting bruned to actually be a bit of a boon, because then it becomes a pretty good status absorber. The extra 12% each turn can lead to losing some battles you wouldn't otherwise though of course. It's not all bad though.
Yeah I've actually been considering running Foul Play over Night Shade for a bit now, as it does seem to have a lot of advantages. Of course, it does mean that you can't speed up the deaths of many defensive threats such as Ferrothorn with Night Shade anymore either, but I think the trade off would probably be worth it. I personally don't mind Latios switching in as much, because then I just trap it with my Ttar and it's gone for the game :P.
I actually use my Sableye in sand and it performs admirably. However, I do agree that Heatran is THE #1 counter to Sableye, taking nothing from anything it can do to it and KOing back with its fire type moves. However, the switch to Heatran is usually pretty predictable, so it does allow you to double switch and gain some momentum a lot of the time if you're sharp.
CM/Recover/HP Fighting/Shadow Ball performs surprisingly well against Heatran and packs a lot of surprise value. Give it a try.